Will we learn of a "new" Mark Felt?

[nat4900]

The New American Alt Right tried to overthrow our system by the Russian interference and American collusion with the Russians.

The ass kicking of the Alt Right will be hugely stupendous.

Anything that reconfirms the efficacy of our legal and ethical system is ALWAYS to be honored and cherished.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The New American Alt Right tried to overthrow our system by the Russian interference and American collusion with the Russians.

The ass kicking of the Alt Right will be hugely stupendous.

Anything that reconfirms the efficacy of our legal and ethical system is ALWAYS to be honored and cherished.

Oh, that's rich.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Trump’s unwarranted attack on the FBI is a disgrace.

And those who support Trump and likewise attack the FBI are unpatriotic cowards.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The Congress can investigate Clinton all it wants.

But . . .

. . . that in no way excludes or lessens the investigation of Trump.

I find it to be an interesting sociological quirk that right wingers CANNOT manage to defend Trump without the guise of constantly ATTACKING Clinton.

I don't give a crap about Hillary....but THIS current investigation is ALL Trump.

That’s because conservatives have no grounds upon which to defend Trump – one cannot ‘defend’ the indefensible.

Unable to defend Trump conservatives resort to red herring fallacies, lies, and misinformation in a failed attempt to deflect from the fact that Trump cannot be defended, and that conservatives are in fact wrong.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Yes, I want Trump out of the WH. Do I think the process of effecting that end is fun? Hell no! Sadism does not appeal to me.

Well, for myself, I DO consider "fun" the upcoming downfall of a wanna-be despot;it confirms for me that our system of checks-n-balances and rules of law STILL function to kick out charlatans from the oval office.

Assuming you actually understand the implications of what you're saying, holding such a notion, though every bit your right, reflects unfathomably-to-me myopia, selfishness and a sick revelry for discord.

The fact of the matter is that Trump is the POTUS. As such, though we see in him both a man and an office -- we do that everyday when we chide Trump for "being Trump" -- we must not rational in pondering separating the man from the office he holds, ignore the fact that doing so has significance beyond merely removing him from office and that the people's confidence in the marrow of the Office of the President of the U.S. and the processes that allow one to obtain it will pale unavoidably and materially. Impeaching and removing a POTUS from office is a political matter, but it is also much more than that.

Moreover, because Trump will likely resist at every turn the processes that could well lead to his removal from office, the diminution plausibly will have a more deleterious impact on the Office of the POTUS than have past such forays. Trump's not unique in that regard, but, in my estimation, he differs from Nixon and Clinton in that (1) he truly considers himself infallible, (2) he views the Presidency and his being POTUS though monarchical lens, and thus (3) he has no conception that what's good for the nation is superior to what's good for him; thus his resistance, unlike those other men's will entail his "salting the earth," as it were, in the course of his demise. We see that already in his incessantly prideful impugning of the press, the judiciary, the USIC, the FBI and honorable individuals who work in each of those institutions and happen to disagree with him.

I'm not willing to here to expound upon all the details of why I think that of your (or anyone's) finding the "take down" of a POTUS fun; however, I will point you to a text-- An Affair of State: The Investigation, Impeachment, and Trial of President Clinton -- that, regardless of one's concurrence with the author's ultimate conclusions (those conclusions are irrelevant for the "bigger picture" discussion in which you and I presently engage), identifies quite clearly the material, enduring and negative impacts the country and the deterioration of confidence its people suffer in the wake of being taken down the road of impeaching and removing from office a POTUS. I will, however summarize them.

• The presidential impeachment and removal from office (I&R) process calls attention not only to the transgressions of the person holding the office of the POTUS, but also it highlights the inadequacy of the judiciary, the political process, the Congress, the legal profession, and the academic community to anticipate and interdict novel challenges.
• The I&R process highlights the our constitution's permeability to political disagreements, thus fragility of the American experiment, whereby the "soft subjects" (history and law) one which it depends endure bereft of universal "agreement on the methods for resolving disagreement [and thus] enables consensus to be forged despite the differing political agendas of the practitioners" of hard science. This failure is symptomatic of history and law in contrast to a "hard" field (such as physics) in which theorists reason to "divergent conclusions from shared premises."
• The I&R process' key players will, as they did in the 1990s, fail to emphasize the importance of the rule of law in general and of telling the truth in depositions and in testimony before a grand jury, in particular.
• The I&R process, as before with Clinton and as we now observe from Trump and his legal team, elevate to even greater levels of acceptability "quibbling, hair-splitting equivocation, brazen denial of the obvious, truncated quotation and quotation out of context, and mischaracterization of the law"...and will do so to a citizenry already over enthralled with and beset by discord deriving from irrationality.

Those things being consequences of the I&R process are not in and of themselves vexing, dismaying or troublesome. Despite along with having numerous failures laid before it, for example, the public becomes somewhat more informed, differently so but no less imperfectly so, about law, ethics, and politics, at least for the short term. Additionally, the I&R "demonstrated the resilience of the American government. For despite everything, government will tick along in its usual way through the months of so-called crisis.

It is the reactionary response to having the American legal dicta and political process' underbelly revealed that painful. Revealing skeletons in the closet of America's jurisprudencial structure, political figures, and political operations combine to make the sovereignty, as a whole both stronger and weaker; however, following a successfully undertaken I&R process ("successful" including a POTUS' resigning the face of imminent impeachment and/or removal) the polity responds by acting to stitch the gaps that allowed the transgressions to happen in the first place. While it's normal to desire doing so, actually doing so increases the scope of political and authoritative impotence any future holders of the office of the POTUS face while providing no attendant reduction in the expectations placed on those holders. Furthermore, being yet another thing political and about which citizens may disagree, the ostensibly corrective process exacerbates the nature and extent of schism among the polity.


That said, I do not find that the painful impacts of the overall I&R process militate in Trump's case for refraining from undertaking it. Trump, like Bill Clinton did, deserves the blame and excoriation he receives for violating the executive and exemplary ethical duties of his office. The former are his executive and administrative duties, which can only be executed successfully by someone with credibility. The latter include his duties to serve as a role model, to preserve the dignity of his office, and to avoid scandal and the appearance thereof. Trump's profligate disingenuousness and dissembling, and his attempts to obfuscate as much both denude further the mystique of the Presidency and constitute part of a powerful case for his impeachment and Senatorial conviction.

I see the I&R process' impacts, somewhat as I see chemotherapy or excision, as consequences that nobody having any real concern for the country would take pleasure in wishing for or inflicting upon any one person, let alone hundreds of millions of people. Asserting that one will take pleasure in watching the I&R process is the political and governance analogue to saying not only for oneself but also to one's countrymen "I bid you bad health, painful treatment, debilitating recovery and a compromised existentiality at the end of it all."

Often enough I concur with some of themes you express and ends you desire here, yet I see now there is a clear difference between us. While you can, no matter how desirous I am to see Trump leave the WH, I cannot brook being constituted of the obdurate selfishness and wanton truculence needed to take pleasure in seeing a POTUS impeached and/or removed from office.



Edit/Note:

Additional resources on the matter of the I&R process and its impacts:

• Bill Kovach and Tom Rosenstiel, Warp Speed: America in the Age of Mixed Media
• Elizabeth Drew, The Corruption of American Politics: What Went Wrong and Why
• Bob Woodward, Shadow: Five Presidents and the Legacy of Watergate
• Laurence H. Tribe, 1 American Constitutional Law
  
• "IMPEACHMENT: THE LEGACY; Effects on the Presidency Uncertain, but Certainly Lasting"
• "The Probable Effect of the Impeachment Trial"
• "Who Would the Founders Impeach?"
• "Impeachment of Witnesses"

 

[bripat9643]

A competent president....which Trump is surely not....would have remembered that messing with the FBI is not such a good idea.

During the beginning of the Watergate investigations, and as the FBI began being involved, Nixon tried to order the CIA to DISRUPT whatever the FBI was researching.....and as the Nixon mess became even clearer, Nixon ordered that someone like Mark Felt should NOT....under his direct order......be appointed as head of the FBI.

Well, we all know how that type of cover up and malicious statements about the FBI turned out for good ol Tricky-Dicky.....Mark Felt turned out to be "deep throat" and much of the FBI's findings contributed to Nixon's demise.

We are very much in that SAME scenario with Trump belittling the FBI.......refusing to praise them for their great work in disrupting the San Francisco ISIS plot just days ago (partially because THAT would have interfered with the idiot Trump's assertion that he single-handed "defeated ISIS")............and we should all wonder if yet ANOTHER Mark Felt has emerged within the FBI, working closely with the Mueller's team of prosecutors.

We are in for a VERY interesting and fun ride to see our "beloved" orange clown meet reality and be thrown into the infamy of the most inept, corrupt and incompetent stain to ever sit in the oval office.....

(BTW, the senile ass kisser, Orin Hatch, actually had the insanity to state that Trump may be the BEST president EVER.......move over Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln.....a two-bit real estate charlatan has overtaken these presidents' fame.)

The FBI has turned into a subversive fifth column within our government. It has tried to overthrow a lawfully elected president. A lot of the top brass belong in prison. This all went on under the direction of, and with the approval of the most inept, corrupt and incompetent stain to ever sit in the oval office: Barack Hussein Obama.

Your insinuation that the FBI will retaliate against Trump only goes to show how corrupt it is, and that even dumbasses like you know it's corrupt

 

[Wyatt earp]

A competent president....which Trump is surely not....would have remembered that messing with the FBI is not such a good idea.

During the beginning of the Watergate investigations, and as the FBI began being involved, Nixon tried to order the CIA to DISRUPT whatever the FBI was researching.....and as the Nixon mess became even clearer, Nixon ordered that someone like Mark Felt should NOT....under his direct order......be appointed as head of the FBI.

Well, we all know how that type of cover up and malicious statements about the FBI turned out for good ol Tricky-Dicky.....Mark Felt turned out to be "deep throat" and much of the FBI's findings contributed to Nixon's demise.

We are very much in that SAME scenario with Trump belittling the FBI.......refusing to praise them for their great work in disrupting the San Francisco ISIS plot just days ago (partially because THAT would have interfered with the idiot Trump's assertion that he single-handed "defeated ISIS")............and we should all wonder if yet ANOTHER Mark Felt has emerged within the FBI, working closely with the Mueller's team of prosecutors.

We are in for a VERY interesting and fun ride to see our "beloved" orange clown meet reality and be thrown into the infamy of the most inept, corrupt and incompetent stain to ever sit in the oval office.....

(BTW, the senile ass kisser, Orin Hatch, actually had the insanity to state that Trump may be the BEST president EVER.......move over Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln.....a two-bit real estate charlatan has overtaken these presidents' fame.)

You better calm down the rate youre going you won't live long enough to see Trump leave office ...


I think you should take a time out if the same zone area and play with crayons ...

 

[gipper]

A competent president....which Trump is surely not....would have remembered that messing with the FBI is not such a good idea.

During the beginning of the Watergate investigations, and as the FBI began being involved, Nixon tried to order the CIA to DISRUPT whatever the FBI was researching.....and as the Nixon mess became even clearer, Nixon ordered that someone like Mark Felt should NOT....under his direct order......be appointed as head of the FBI.

Well, we all know how that type of cover up and malicious statements about the FBI turned out for good ol Tricky-Dicky.....Mark Felt turned out to be "deep throat" and much of the FBI's findings contributed to Nixon's demise.

We are very much in that SAME scenario with Trump belittling the FBI.......refusing to praise them for their great work in disrupting the San Francisco ISIS plot just days ago (partially because THAT would have interfered with the idiot Trump's assertion that he single-handed "defeated ISIS")............and we should all wonder if yet ANOTHER Mark Felt has emerged within the FBI, working closely with the Mueller's team of prosecutors.

We are in for a VERY interesting and fun ride to see our "beloved" orange clown meet reality and be thrown into the infamy of the most inept, corrupt and incompetent stain to ever sit in the oval office.....

(BTW, the senile ass kisser, Orin Hatch, actually had the insanity to state that Trump may be the BEST president EVER.......move over Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln.....a two-bit real estate charlatan has overtaken these presidents' fame.)

If there is a whistleblower at the FBI, he is more likely to blow the whistle on Obama and Cankles.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Trump is well within his rights to fire Mueller and prosecute Comey and half of the FBI

 

[nat4900]

Mark Felt??? Who screwed up the investigation against BO's buddy Bill Ayers. That Mark Felt? LOL

YES, that same Mark Felt.......Gee,you're going back to the Weather Underground to "defend" your orange clown?

BTW, Felt was fully pardoned by your sometime (depending on what FOX tells you) hero, Ronald Reagan............Reagan stated that, " We can be no less generous to two men [Felt and Edward Miller....both FBI officials] who acted on high principle to bring an end to the terrorism that was threatening our nation."

Felt died BEFORE Obama became president......

Good time for YOU to apologize.

 

[nat4900]

The FBI has turned into a subversive fifth column within our government. It has tried to overthrow a lawfully elected president. A lot of the top brass belong in prison. This all went on under the direction of, and with the approval of the most inept, corrupt and incompetent stain to ever sit in the oval office: Barack Hussein Obama.

Your insinuation that the FBI will retaliate against Trump only goes to show how corrupt it is, and that even dumbasses like you know it's corrupt

Morons .....like you.......flip-flop so gamn much that flounders out of water must be jealous.....

The FBI under Comey virtually HANDED the presidency to the orange idiot when it falsely stated that Clinton was AGAIN under investigation just 11 days before the election........

THEN, the FBI was doing ":good work".......now that Trump is in the spotlight, for idiots, the FBI is a subversive political entity......Do you even remotely realize how truly fucked up you are?

 

[nat4900]

take a time out if the same zone area and play with crayons .

Where exactly is that "same zone area"???................LOL

 

[nat4900]

If there is a whistleblower at the FBI, he is more likely to blow the whistle on Obama and Cankles.

"Excellent"......another right wing moron chimes in in his "defense" of Trump by deflecting to Obama and Clinton.......

Hey, Gip, when will you start a thread calling for the FBI to investigate Obama and Clinton???.........Today, tomorrow, ever????......After all, you morons like to claim "victories" in every facet of government....So, here's your chance.......LOL

 

[gipper]

If there is a whistleblower at the FBI, he is more likely to blow the whistle on Obama and Cankles.

"Excellent"......another right wing moron chimes in in his "defense" of Trump by deflecting to Obama and Clinton.......

Hey, Gip, when will you start a thread calling for the FBI to investigate Obama and Clinton???.........Today, tomorrow, ever????......After all, you morons like to claim "victories" in every facet of government....So, here's your chance.......LOL

I am not defending Trump...you silly LWNJ.

I am merely stating my opinion and I am so glad you find it unacceptable.

 

[Correll]

A competent president....which Trump is surely not....would have remembered that messing with the FBI is not such a good idea.

During the beginning of the Watergate investigations, and as the FBI began being involved, Nixon tried to order the CIA to DISRUPT whatever the FBI was researching.....and as the Nixon mess became even clearer, Nixon ordered that someone like Mark Felt should NOT....under his direct order......be appointed as head of the FBI.

Well, we all know how that type of cover up and malicious statements about the FBI turned out for good ol Tricky-Dicky.....Mark Felt turned out to be "deep throat" and much of the FBI's findings contributed to Nixon's demise.

We are very much in that SAME scenario with Trump belittling the FBI.......refusing to praise them for their great work in disrupting the San Francisco ISIS plot just days ago (partially because THAT would have interfered with the idiot Trump's assertion that he single-handed "defeated ISIS")............and we should all wonder if yet ANOTHER Mark Felt has emerged within the FBI, working closely with the Mueller's team of prosecutors.

We are in for a VERY interesting and fun ride to see our "beloved" orange clown meet reality and be thrown into the infamy of the most inept, corrupt and incompetent stain to ever sit in the oval office.....

(BTW, the senile ass kisser, Orin Hatch, actually had the insanity to state that Trump may be the BEST president EVER.......move over Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln.....a two-bit real estate charlatan has overtaken these presidents' fame.)

So, you support the idea that state EMPLOYEES, should leak classified documents in their war against elected officials?


That is incredible.

 

[easyt65]

A competent president....which Trump is surely not....would have remembered that messing with the FBI is not such a good idea.

During the beginning of the Watergate investigations, and as the FBI began being involved, Nixon tried to order the CIA to DISRUPT whatever the FBI was researching.....and as the Nixon mess became even clearer, Nixon ordered that someone like Mark Felt should NOT....under his direct order......be appointed as head of the FBI.

Well, we all know how that type of cover up and malicious statements about the FBI turned out for good ol Tricky-Dicky.....Mark Felt turned out to be "deep throat" and much of the FBI's findings contributed to Nixon's demise.

We are very much in that SAME scenario with Trump belittling the FBI.......refusing to praise them for their great work in disrupting the San Francisco ISIS plot just days ago (partially because THAT would have interfered with the idiot Trump's assertion that he single-handed "defeated ISIS")............and we should all wonder if yet ANOTHER Mark Felt has emerged within the FBI, working closely with the Mueller's team of prosecutors.

We are in for a VERY interesting and fun ride to see our "beloved" orange clown meet reality and be thrown into the infamy of the most inept, corrupt and incompetent stain to ever sit in the oval office.....

(BTW, the senile ass kisser, Orin Hatch, actually had the insanity to state that Trump may be the BEST president EVER.......move over Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln.....a two-bit real estate charlatan has overtaken these presidents' fame.)

The great thing is no one has to 'mess with' Mueller or the FBI and their investigation because Mueller and the FBI have so completely F*ed up this WITCH HUNT by themselves, exposing the SEDITION and CRIMINAL conspiratorial crimes perpetrated by the FBI as part of their 'Insurance Policy' in case Trump won and how so much evidence has come out exposing their and Mueller's crimes.

Mueller, Comey, Strzok, Holder, Lynch, Hillary, Abedin, Mills, Rice. Obama ... enough evidence against them exists to indict them all.

PRESIDENT Trump does not have to interfere or fire anyone. They are doing a 'lovely' job themselves.

(I wonder at what point some of them will begin to think, 'Ok, I might want to start being nicer to Trump...because I may need HIM for pardon ME'.

 

[easyt65]

HOWEVER, this investigation by the special counsel....a republican, appointed by republicans....investigating a republican, IS ABOUT TRUMP, and NOT Hillary..........

ACTUALLY (surprise, surprise) YOU ARE WRONG!

It has EVERYTHING to do with Hillary:

If Hillary (and Comey, and Obama, and the DNC - which Hillary owned) had not purchased a fake report filled with Russian propaganda from a foreign agent / ex-spy though a firm that worked for the Russians and ILLEGALLY used that report in a US election, the report would not have been used for the basis of the Democrats' / snowflakes' on-going Witch Hunt.

(So it can be argued that the only reason the Witch Hunt exists is due to another Hillary crime. )

 

[LordBrownTrout]

And the VERY curious relationships that the FBI had with Fusion GPS and the Clinton campaign

Of course you should know by now that Fusion GPS was FIRST hired by a conservative group....

BUT MORE IMPORTANT is this: The Mueller investigation is much LESS about Russia and much MORE about the obstruction of justice that the orange moron tried to compel the FBI to partner with him on.......

As in Watergate, the initial crime of a break in became irrelevant to the subsequent COVER UP ......

Yeah sure, lol. The loonbats went from collusion and quickly realized a dead end. Now, they're off to obstruction. A real laugher.

 

[nat4900]

I am not defending Trump...you silly LWNJ.

The above will soon become a mantra of epidemic proportions......prefaced by a lot of "WHO ME??"

 

[gipper]

I am not defending Trump...you silly LWNJ.

The above will soon become a mantra of epidemic proportions......prefaced by a lot of "WHO ME??"

Just pointing out your continuous hypocrisy. You loved Big Ears and he lied all the time.