Why we have to redistribute income through taxes

070214krugman1-blog480.png


The problem is obvious to anyone capable of reading charts. Unfortunately, most right wingers aren't that bright.

You chart is bullshit because the ave size of the American family has been decreasing drastically for the last several decades.


BZZZT - wrong again.

Do you ever post intelligently?
 
The only fair tax is a flat tax: whatever percent, probably around 20%, applied to every single dollar earned by anyone, no deductions of any kind. That way special interests can't carve out subsidies to their activities, and anyone advocating for higher taxes will be willing to pony up themselves. Simple, easy, and eminently fair. It also gives everyone an incentive to make sure the USFG is only as big as it needs to be, and no more.
 
The only fair tax is a flat tax: whatever percent, probably around 20%, applied to every single dollar earned by anyone, no deductions of any kind. That way special interests can't carve out subsidies to their activities, and anyone advocating for higher taxes will be willing to pony up themselves. Simple, easy, and eminently fair. It also gives everyone an incentive to make sure the USFG is only as big as it needs to be, and no more.

I would be a virtual tax cut to everyone because the simplification would cut compliance costs to a tenth. But the inability of pols to dole out goodies to favored groups is exactly what will sink its chances.
 
070214krugman1-blog480.png


The problem is obvious to anyone capable of reading charts. Unfortunately, most right wingers aren't that bright.

You chart is bullshit because the ave size of the American family has been decreasing drastically for the last several decades.


BZZZT - wrong again.

Do you ever post intelligently?

I dont know which is worse: that you dont know the facts or you dont care about the facts.
Census: U.S. household size shrinking - Technology & science - Science - LiveScience | NBC News
 
Yeah I can tell you're lying because posts with your name appear.
The chart does not show wages.
You know, every time you continue on with your lies, you look dumber to everyone here.

Maybe you don't care how dumb you look to everyone. That's something you can be proud of.

You appear to be the stupid one here. Go back to the chart and see what it purports to show. "Wages" is nowhere on there.


You silly ******* rabbit. The chart uses the term "earnings".

In your fucked up world rabbit, if you had a job wouldn't your wages be considered your earnings? Why, they sure would.

What do you think that chart is referring to when they show "earnings"? Is that the interest earned on your billions in stock and other investments rabbit? LMAO.
 
You know, every time you continue on with your lies, you look dumber to everyone here.

Maybe you don't care how dumb you look to everyone. That's something you can be proud of.

You appear to be the stupid one here. Go back to the chart and see what it purports to show. "Wages" is nowhere on there.


You silly ******* rabbit. The chart uses the term "earnings".

In your fucked up world rabbit, if you had a job wouldn't your wages be considered your earnings? Why, they sure would.

What do you think that chart is referring to when they show "earnings"? Is that the interest earned on your billions in stock and other investments rabbit? LMAO.

Earnings are not wages, Zeke old fool.
 
You cannot shame a company for paying millions to its CEO. This is a valid business decision -- the companies have to attract the best and brightest. As long as we have a free-market based economy, which we should, it will create inequality. Sometimes it would create way more than it is necessary for simply giving people right motivations.

When it happens, the government should intervene by redistributing incomes from the rich to the poor.

It's such a wonderfully simple concept, Ilia...yet so naive.

The government shouldn't be in the "redistribution" business...what they should be doing is providing an environment for those who are poor to become part of the middle class.

What you suggest is impossible. We can't all become CEOs. Even if everyone would get a college degree, some of us would have to work at McDonalds.

The income distribution is defined by the level of technological progress. As machines replace workers, inequality increases -- middle class jobs are replaced by a few very high paying ones and much more low income, low skilled jobs. That is why we have to engage in income redistribution if only to maintain the status quo -- more if we want to decrease inequality.

Where did I say that everyone should become a CEO? Where did I say that everyone should get a college degree? What I do say is that everyone should be left to find their own level of accomplishment and be compensated for doing so by a free market. If you start out at McDonalds and choose to stay working as the "fry person" for the next forty years then why should the government step in and declare that you deserve the same amount of money as someone who worked at developing new skills to make themselves more valuable and thus got paid more? Do you really not grasp the effect that doing what you advocate would have?
 
The increasingly skewed income distribution pattern is a result of of what economists call "concentration of capital." It is a natural and inevitable result of our system. Fewer and fewer people own more and more because of the way the capitalist system works. Taxation and redistribution by the government is the only way to keep our current system and still maintain our constitutional democracy, which requires income distribution to remain within broad parameters in order to maintain social and political stability.

When enough people are suffering sufficiently, they turn to the government for relief. Provision of that relief is resisted by the people who have to pay for it in taxes. The result is called fascism when it fails, socialism when it succeeds. No matter which side of the economic highway we crash off, it is never as good as adjusting our democratic capitalism so that it works. Those who make evolution impossible make revolution inevitable.
 
The income/wealth that is produced is earned by somebody. That is, someone is taking an investment risk. Why would anyone think that they are entitled to a distribution if they do nothing to earn it? This is essentially what you are saying. Someone advocating redistribution or rallying against income/wealth disparity is really asking for a handout - something for nothing.

The person originating this thread has no clue about economics.


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Please tell us about "economics"! Clearly you believe you have a clue, so explain to those of us you believe don't have one how a class system - for that is what a plutocracy is, and that is what we have become - will impact a democratic republic that we once were?

Who benefits and how will they benefit? Who will suffer, how and why? Think critically, don't rely on your biases or the dogmatic ideology many 'conservatives' (note, single quotes) live by.
 
It's such a wonderfully simple concept, Ilia...yet so naive.

The government shouldn't be in the "redistribution" business...what they should be doing is providing an environment for those who are poor to become part of the middle class.

What you suggest is impossible. We can't all become CEOs. Even if everyone would get a college degree, some of us would have to work at McDonalds.

The income distribution is defined by the level of technological progress. As machines replace workers, inequality increases -- middle class jobs are replaced by a few very high paying ones and much more low income, low skilled jobs. That is why we have to engage in income redistribution if only to maintain the status quo -- more if we want to decrease inequality.

Where did I say that everyone should become a CEO? Where did I say that everyone should get a college degree? What I do say is that everyone should be left to find their own level of accomplishment and be compensated for doing so by a free market. If you start out at McDonalds and choose to stay working as the "fry person" for the next forty years then why should the government step in and declare that you deserve the same amount of money as someone who worked at developing new skills to make themselves more valuable and thus got paid more? Do you really not grasp the effect that doing what you advocate would have?

well said and completely correct. What the libs don't get is that everyone does not have the same skills, talents, intelligence, or luck. Real freedom scares them because real freedom includes both the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.

liberal lunacy wants to prevent anyone from ever failing, having their feelings hurt, or not getting a thophy.

Liberalism is a mental disease, there is no other explanation.
 
The increasingly skewed income distribution pattern is a result of of what economists call "concentration of capital." It is a natural and inevitable result of our system. Fewer and fewer people own more and more because of the way the capitalist system works. Taxation and redistribution by the government is the only way to keep our current system and still maintain our constitutional democracy, which requires income distribution to remain within broad parameters in order to maintain social and political stability.

When enough people are suffering sufficiently, they turn to the government for relief. Provision of that relief is resisted by the people who have to pay for it in taxes. The result is called fascism when it fails, socialism when it succeeds. No matter which side of the economic highway we crash off, it is never as good as adjusting our democratic capitalism so that it works. Those who make evolution impossible make revolution inevitable.

Wrong, what we see happening today is the direct result of government policies, not the inevitible result of capitalism as you claim.

Now, we could have a socialist system where all of the money and all of the power is controlled by a very small group of super elites and everyone else is EQUALLY miserable. Would that be preferable to you?

But since you hate successful rich people so much, what do you propose we do about the wealth of Oprah and Beyonce?
 
Why we have to redistribute income through taxes .

Because


WELFARE STATE = GOVERNMENT BUY THE PEOPLE

.

Right, and what they don't get is that when you take away to incentive to become better off financially, no one bothers working. Why work when the govt will just provide everything you need?

Someone has to pay for all the give aways. Why is that so hard for liberals to grasp?
 
Why we have to redistribute income through taxes .

Because


WELFARE STATE = GOVERNMENT BUY THE PEOPLE

.

Right, and what they don't get is that when you take away to incentive to become better off financially, no one bothers working. Why work when the govt will just provide everything you need?

Someone has to pay for all the give aways. Why is that so hard for liberals to grasp?


to grasp: take hold of somebody or something: to take hold of somebody or something firmly, especially with the hand

To grasp something requires active effort. The parasites avoid ANYTHING that requires effort.

.
 
The element of risk is a necessary element in wealth creation.
Certainly. I've lived it when I went into business for myself.



The government cannot create wealth.
It can create opportunities for wealth to be created. Infrastructure is a good history lesson in the creation of wealth for the TeaBaggeds to learn from, if they use their empty little heads. Going back to Roman times, roads making travel quick over land, was known as a way to trade with others. Later on in history, guys like Vanderbilt built huge fortunes based in infrastructure, where land and tax dollars were used build those fortunes. It also built the fortunes of others trying to reach new markets for their goods. Later on again, we've seen the FAA keep the skies relatively safe for air travelers and other cargo that is flown around the world, through the infrastructure and regs the government created.



The Vanderbilts disagree. But if you want to get into the multiplier effects of tax cuts versus help for the unemployed or poor... OK. It's a little old, but you'll get the idea if you have even a modicum of economic whats-the-most-effective-way-to-avert-an-austerity-crisis-more-stimulus/]What?s the most effective way to avert an austerity crisis? More stimulus. - The Washington Post[/url]



When it's spent, as the above link has shown, it goes into the economy directly.



But the investment isn't worth shit if people aren't buying goods, or borrowing money, etc.



LOL! You're in total need of a lesson in the most basic economics. Look, dude... No infrastructure, no goods move. No goods moving, no markets to buy it. Think of it like this... Since the wealthy don't create infrastructure, then government has to do it for them. That takes taxes to do. So, the taxes are a form of giving the wealthy opportunities to exploit markets. Not just that, but the raw materials have to get from the ground to the factory, and you need roads and railways, with bridges that aren't going to fall apart for that.



You'll never make it in understanding business with that attitude.



The first sentence of this paragraph blows your own previous argument out of the water. Plus, government has done pretty well at making it all come about by contracting private companies to build all that stuff. But, in the meantime, just because I like to smack down the ignorant and snide, I'll leave you with a thought that I know from first hand experience: government run entities are often run cheaper, with better service, than private ones.



Get a ******* clue. I know you ideas make you feel good about yourself. But the reality is that lacking risk and profit motive you cannot create wealth.
I'm giving you a clue. I'm not too hopeful you'll grasp it. But I can hope for you to be able to understand the very fallacies in your attempts at logic. Since you don't have a background in business, I'll be here to help you out if you get stuck. ;).





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Heh... DARPA gave you something useful to use.


Actually, I have a background in business, having started an run a successful one for over 14 years now. Now, a prudent person would not have gone out on a limb like you did with such an assertion. No, you chose to clumsily plod forward.

No successful business person holds your views. You are either a liar or a bankrupted ******, probably multiple times. I would wager that I am far better educated than you and deal with much higher gross revenue than you. If you have time to sit on your ass and ponder leftist tripe then you do not have that much going on in your life or "business".

You are clearly a leftist fraud. Moreover, you are a weak minded little inconsequential creep who mindlessly defaults to an ideological response to what others say without exercising an ounce of critical analysis.

Yuck it up, Roscoe. Have fun jacking off in your parent's basement this afternoon, shit head.



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15th post
070214krugman1-blog480.png


The problem is obvious to anyone capable of reading charts. Unfortunately, most right wingers aren't that bright.

You chart is bullshit because the ave size of the American family has been decreasing drastically for the last several decades.

If you show workers real wages over the past several decades, it still shows the same problem.

If anything, the size of the families being smaller would tend to make available more disposable income, if real wages were not falling.

Don't point that out to bripat. You'll make his head explode.
 
You chart is bullshit because the ave size of the American family has been decreasing drastically for the last several decades.

If you show workers real wages over the past several decades, it still shows the same problem.

If anything, the size of the families being smaller would tend to make available more disposable income, if real wages were not falling.

Don't point that out to bripat. You'll make his head explode.

Actually your head would explode if you really understood what he wrote.
 
State civil servants need better pay and benefits...

For the people ! Lol
 
It's such a wonderfully simple concept, Ilia...yet so naive.

The government shouldn't be in the "redistribution" business...what they should be doing is providing an environment for those who are poor to become part of the middle class.

What you suggest is impossible. We can't all become CEOs. Even if everyone would get a college degree, some of us would have to work at McDonalds.

The income distribution is defined by the level of technological progress. As machines replace workers, inequality increases -- middle class jobs are replaced by a few very high paying ones and much more low income, low skilled jobs. That is why we have to engage in income redistribution if only to maintain the status quo -- more if we want to decrease inequality.

Where did I say that everyone should become a CEO? Where did I say that everyone should get a college degree? What I do say is that everyone should be left to find their own level of accomplishment and be compensated for doing so by a free market.

Then we will have unacceptable level of equality. I don't whant to live in a country where half of national income goes to the top 1%.

If you start out at McDonalds and choose to stay working as the "fry person" for the next forty years then why should the government step in and declare that you deserve the same amount of money as someone who worked at developing new skills to make themselves more valuable and thus got paid more? Do you really not grasp the effect that doing what you advocate would have?

I do not advocate a complete inequality. I'm for reducing it -- some people would still make tens times what the average person makes.
 
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