Why we have to redistribute income through taxes

[The Rabbi]

Harpo Productions, Inc.

Type Private
Industry Media
Founded 1986 (Chicago, Illinois)
Founder(s) Oprah Winfrey


Harpo Productions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


WOW your lack of critical thinking is scary!

Was there a point you were attempting to make? I mentioned that both Oprah and Beyonce are also CEOs in a previous message. I guess you're just....stooopid

You mean both in private Corps? AND? What does that have to do with public CEO pay or the FACT that BOTH of those support Dem policy like higher taxes on the 'job creators'? Now they are just selfish? Oh wait, no that would be CEO's who support GOP policies!

That wasnt even coherent. Even for you. You're just spewing shit in some kind of pathetic failed attempt to make a point that is obviously beyond you.
If Oprah wants to pay more she can write a check today. How many actors, singers, etc take a one dollar a year salary like the 9 CEOs of corporations I posted?
Greed is not wanting to keep what you've made. Greed is wanting what someone else has made.

 

[Dad2three]

Bottom line: There is nothing wrong with wealth. It is the hoarding of excessive wealth which is ruining America. And because of the obvious level of corruption in Washington, correcting this problem will require the implementation of radical measures. I.e., redistribution of the Nation's wealth resources via confiscatory taxation.

Honest question:

Are you saying what I earn through hard work and investment isn't my private property? It's part of or belongs to the "Nation's wealth"?

I was paying very close attention and I could swear my wealth wasn't "distributed" to me. I distinctly recall earning it and risking a great deal of it investing.

Just curious.

I missed the definition of "excessive wealth" somewhere. Is it right near "fairness" in the dictionariy of liberal cliches?

How about 5 families, thee Walton's (Walmart) having as much wealth as the bottom 41% of US?

 

[The Rabbi]

Bottom line: There is nothing wrong with wealth. It is the hoarding of excessive wealth which is ruining America. And because of the obvious level of corruption in Washington, correcting this problem will require the implementation of radical measures. I.e., redistribution of the Nation's wealth resources via confiscatory taxation.

Honest question:

Are you saying what I earn through hard work and investment isn't my private property? It's part of or belongs to the "Nation's wealth"?

I was paying very close attention and I could swear my wealth wasn't "distributed" to me. I distinctly recall earning it and risking a great deal of it investing.

Just curious.

Yep, you did that all in the bubble, without ANY help from the US society past or present *shaking head*

"You didnt build that!"
Yeah, that's a discredited meme, from Obama plagiarizing Fauxcohontas.

 

[The Rabbi]

Honest question:

Are you saying what I earn through hard work and investment isn't my private property? It's part of or belongs to the "Nation's wealth"?

I was paying very close attention and I could swear my wealth wasn't "distributed" to me. I distinctly recall earning it and risking a great deal of it investing.

Just curious.

I missed the definition of "excessive wealth" somewhere. Is it right near "fairness" in the dictionariy of liberal cliches?

How about 5 families, thee Walton's (Walmart) having as much wealth as the bottom 41% of US?

Sounds fine to me. At what point is it not excessive and how do you know?

 

[Erand7899]

[...]

If a CEO is making $millions in salary, then he is already paying the higherst tax rate on the bulk of his income. However, most of their compensation is paid in stock options and they pay the capital gains rate for the bulk of that compensation. However, none of it is any business of yours. You don't pay the salary, or the stock options, and you have no financial interest in the business. The CEO is just as much an employee as any other employee, and is just as loyal, and just as industrious as any other employee. He/she is just as worthy of their pay as any other employee.

Your obvious envy and jealousy aside, what any CEO makes has absolutely no financial effect on you, me, or any other non related individual. Tend to your own damn business and leave others to tend to theirs.

First, that "envy and jealousy" routine is old, tired, cliched and worn-out nonsense right from the playbook of such multi-millionaire corporatist propagandists as Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et al. So you do yourself no service by using it. A more accurate designation for the average Progressive's disposition toward today's grossly overpaid CEOs is resentment, and justifiably so.

The mindset you've been fed by corporate propagandists asserting the exaggerated CEO salaries and bonuses have no effect on the mainstream is patently wrong. Those excessive outlays occur in proportion to reduced and stagnant wages of these CEO's employees. The net effect of that disgraceful example of Reaganomics is a marked reduction in consumer activity, which directly affects the circulation of money in the national economy -- which is analogous to the circulation of blood through a living organism.

And that sums up the economic problem America is experiencing today -- the hoarding of vast amounts of money by a small group of inordinately greedy super-rich who have more money than they could ever spend no matter how hard they try. This hoarding impedes the critically necessary effect of monetary circulation, which is what gave rise to the American Middle Class and enabled the most productive and prosperous decades in our history, the 40s to the 80s.

Bottom line: There is nothing wrong with wealth. It is the hoarding of excessive wealth which is ruining America. And because of the obvious level of corruption in Washington correcting this problem will require the implementation of radical measures. I.e., redistribution of the Nation's wealth resources via confiscatory taxation.

You don't have an argument about economics or finance. Your argument is a sophmoric attempt to justify greed and envy. You know nothing about economics or finance and you demonstrate that everytime you post. Hoarding money would only be a problem, if there was insufficient money in circulation to conduct commerce.

For example: If a farmer hoarded one million tons of grain, he would gain nothing as long as there was enough grain on the market to meet market demands. Your argument is hogwash. Money being hoarded is money invisable to the market, and the market goes on as if that money does not exist. Just like the grain market goes on as if that one million tons of grain did not exist.

You have bought into a lie, and you refuse to correct yourself. Companies, corporations and individuals do not pay higher wages because they don't have to. They can get all of the labor they need at current wages. Wages will not go up, substantively, until the labor market tightens up, and good workers become harder to get.

BTW. Contrary to liberal propaganda, the American middle class has existed from before the start of this country, and is fully capable of taking care of itself. The enemy of the middle class is government regulation and taxes, and currently the Frank/Dodd act is doing a damn good job of denying them the credit they need to start, maintain, or build a business.

 

[Dad2three]

Was there a point you were attempting to make? I mentioned that both Oprah and Beyonce are also CEOs in a previous message. I guess you're just....stooopid

You mean both in private Corps? AND? What does that have to do with public CEO pay or the FACT that BOTH of those support Dem policy like higher taxes on the 'job creators'? Now they are just selfish? Oh wait, no that would be CEO's who support GOP policies!

That wasnt even coherent. Even for you. You're just spewing shit in some kind of pathetic failed attempt to make a point that is obviously beyond you.
If Oprah wants to pay more she can write a check today. How many actors, singers, etc take a one dollar a year salary like the 9 CEOs of corporations I posted?
Greed is not wanting to keep what you've made. Greed is wanting what someone else has made.

Good think O and B support Gov't policy versus that 'voluntary' crap you moth off about...

9 CEO's? Oh stock options where they've gained their Corps NOT able to do that pre Reagan, weird right (stock for payments)...

I know CEO's cutting costs at all available options, layoffs, off shoring jobs, temp workers, 'helps' the stock prices (at least temporarily)and the top 1/10th of 1% who get over 50% of Corp dividends, but how does it help US?


Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO

Study: The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO (Vocativ)

Daniel Edward Rosen looks at a study from the University of Utah, which shows that companies that pay CEOs more than $20 million a year have average annual losses over $1 billion.


The Higher the Pay, the Worse the CEO | Vocativ

Roosevelt Take: Roosevelt Institute Fellow and Director of Research Susan Holmberg and Campus Network alumna Lydia Austin look at additional ways high CEO pay distorts the economy.


Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers

Fixing a Hole: How the Tax Code for Executive Pay Distorts Economic Incentives and Burdens Taxpayers | Roosevelt Institute

The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says

Across the board, the more CEOs get paid, the worse their companies do over the next three years, according to extensive new research. This is true whether they’re CEOs at the highest end of the pay spectrum or the lowest. “The more CEOs are paid, the worse the firm does over the next three years, as far as stock performance and even accounting performance,” says one of the authors of the study, Michael Cooper of the University of Utah’s David Eccles School of Business.


The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says - Forbes

 

[Misty]

I'm so sick of people crying victim.

Man up and pull your own weight and stop whining it's disgusting.

 

[Andylusion]

Plutocrats need to STFU, pay their taxes, ride their goldplated jet skis and be thankful we haven't eaten them alive yet.

I don't know of a single rich person who doesn't pay any taxes.

As far as eating them alive, you'd only be harming yourself. No rich, no jobs. No jobs, you starve. Brilliant move Sherlock.

 

[Andylusion]

I'm so sick of people crying victim.

Man up and pull your own weight and stop whining it's disgusting.

It really is. Nothing irritates me more than an American boy, whining that he can't make it in life.

No American can say they have it just so hard. You haven't been to the millions of places where people are literally willing to die, to get the life these people whine and cry about.

Good grief boys... grow some balls, act like a man, and work for a living like the rest of us.

 

[williepete]

Yep, you did that all in the bubble, without ANY help from the US society past or present *shaking head*

Read right off the cue card.

Oh darn. I could have saved myself all that trouble of working through high school, putting myself through college, working my butt off for a couple of decades until I started making good money, nurturing that money carefully until I had enough to risk on investments then sweating bullets picking the right investments.

I didn't have to go through any of that! It was all done for me. We're all on autopilot from the moment of our birth waiting for US society to redistribute wealth to us. Easy!

Sheesh. What a waste of effort. I should have dropped out of high school, sat around smoking pot while collecting welfare and all I have now would have come rushing to my door without me lifting a finger.

 

[Dad2three]

[...]

If a CEO is making $millions in salary, then he is already paying the higherst tax rate on the bulk of his income. However, most of their compensation is paid in stock options and they pay the capital gains rate for the bulk of that compensation. However, none of it is any business of yours. You don't pay the salary, or the stock options, and you have no financial interest in the business. The CEO is just as much an employee as any other employee, and is just as loyal, and just as industrious as any other employee. He/she is just as worthy of their pay as any other employee.

Your obvious envy and jealousy aside, what any CEO makes has absolutely no financial effect on you, me, or any other non related individual. Tend to your own damn business and leave others to tend to theirs.

First, that "envy and jealousy" routine is old, tired, cliched and worn-out nonsense right from the playbook of such multi-millionaire corporatist propagandists as Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et al. So you do yourself no service by using it. A more accurate designation for the average Progressive's disposition toward today's grossly overpaid CEOs is resentment, and justifiably so.

The mindset you've been fed by corporate propagandists asserting the exaggerated CEO salaries and bonuses have no effect on the mainstream is patently wrong. Those excessive outlays occur in proportion to reduced and stagnant wages of these CEO's employees. The net effect of that disgraceful example of Reaganomics is a marked reduction in consumer activity, which directly affects the circulation of money in the national economy -- which is analogous to the circulation of blood through a living organism.

And that sums up the economic problem America is experiencing today -- the hoarding of vast amounts of money by a small group of inordinately greedy super-rich who have more money than they could ever spend no matter how hard they try. This hoarding impedes the critically necessary effect of monetary circulation, which is what gave rise to the American Middle Class and enabled the most productive and prosperous decades in our history, the 40s to the 80s.

Bottom line: There is nothing wrong with wealth. It is the hoarding of excessive wealth which is ruining America. And because of the obvious level of corruption in Washington correcting this problem will require the implementation of radical measures. I.e., redistribution of the Nation's wealth resources via confiscatory taxation.

You don't have an argument about economics or finance. Your argument is a sophmoric attempt to justify greed and envy. You know nothing about economics or finance and you demonstrate that everytime you post. Hoarding money would only be a problem, if there was insufficient money in circulation to conduct commerce.

For example: If a farmer hoarded one million tons of grain, he would gain nothing as long as there was enough grain on the market to meet market demands. Your argument is hogwash. Money being hoarded is money invisable to the market, and the market goes on as if that money does not exist. Just like the grain market goes on as if that one million tons of grain did not exist.

You have bought into a lie, and you refuse to correct yourself. Companies, corporations and individuals do not pay higher wages because they don't have to. They can get all of the labor they need at current wages. Wages will not go up, substantively, until the labor market tightens up, and good workers become harder to get.

BTW. Contrary to liberal propaganda, the American middle class has existed from before the start of this country, and is fully capable of taking care of itself. The enemy of the middle class is government regulation and taxes, and currently the Frank/Dodd act is doing a damn good job of denying them the credit they need to start, maintain, or build a business.

Right wing garbage. I'm shocked

Middle cl;ass isn't a natural thing, look at third world nations, very rich, a few doing ok but the VAST majority in poverty!

US Gov't policy CREATED the worlds largest middle class via PROGRESSIVE policies like Labor laws, Union rights, labor laws, SS, etc..

EVERYTHING you posit is just more right wing crap based on ideology over empirical evidence!



Bruce Bartlett held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul. :



Misrepresentations, Regulations and Jobs

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/regulation-and-unemployment/




‘Financialization’ as a Cause of Economic Malaise


According to a new article in the Journal of Economic Perspectives by the Harvard Business School professors Robin Greenwood and David Scharfstein, financial services rose as a share of G.D.P. to 8.3 percent in 2006 from 2.8 percent in 1950 and 4.9 percent in 1980.

They cite research by Thomas Philippon of New York University and Ariell Reshef of the University of Virginia that compensation in the financial services industry was comparable to that in other industries until 1980. But since then, it has increased sharply and those working in financial services now make 70 percent more on average.




While all economists agree that the financial sector contributes significantly to economic growth, some now question whether that is still the case



Moreover, rising fees paid by nonfinancial corporations to financial markets have reduced internal funds available for investment, shortened their planning horizon and increased uncertainty.




Adair Turner, formerly Britain’s top financial regulator, has said, “There is no clear evidence that the growth in the scale and complexity of the financial system in the rich developed world over the last 20 to 30 years has driven increased growth or stability.”


Another way that the financial sector leeches growth from other sectors is by attracting a rising share of the nation’s “best and brightest” workers, depriving other sectors like manufacturing of their skills.


http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/financialization-as-a-cause-of-economic-malaise/

 

[Dad2three]

Yep, you did that all in the bubble, without ANY help from the US society past or present *shaking head*

Read right off the cue card.

Oh darn. I could have saved myself all that trouble of working through high school, putting myself through college, working my butt off for a couple of decades until I started making good money, nurturing that money carefully until I had enough to risk on investments then sweating bullets picking the right investments.

I didn't have to go through any of that! It was all done for me. We're all on autopilot from the moment of our birth waiting for US society to redistribute wealth to us. Easy!

Sheesh. What a waste of effort. I should have dropped out of high school, sat around smoking pot while collecting welfare and all I have now would have come rushing to my door without me lifting a finger.

Talk about a cue card



Got it, before you no one EVER did those things, especially in the US when the top 1% had 6%-9% of the income pie from 1932-1980...



80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.



Successful Americans didn't make their money themselves. They conducted business in an ordered society with roads and laws and a military that defends it from foreign invaders and they hired people. Nobody wants YOUR money, they want the share they contributed to it


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

 

[Dad2three]

I'm so sick of people crying victim.

Man up and pull your own weight and stop whining it's disgusting.

It really is. Nothing irritates me more than an American boy, whining that he can't make it in life.

No American can say they have it just so hard. You haven't been to the millions of places where people are literally willing to die, to get the life these people whine and cry about.

Good grief boys... grow some balls, act like a man, and work for a living like the rest of us.

You know conservative economics is a failure when they have to keep reminding us how much better our poor is than the poor in 3rd world countries!


Conservatives simplistic minds

If you are rich it is because of your merits. If you are poor its because of your faults.

 

[williepete]

Keep running with that class struggle thing. It's very original and forward thinking.

It worked great the last few times it was tried. I can see why you'd want to try it again.

 

[Dad2three]

Plutocrats need to STFU, pay their taxes, ride their goldplated jet skis and be thankful we haven't eaten them alive yet.

I don't know of a single rich person who doesn't pay any taxes.

As far as eating them alive, you'd only be harming yourself. No rich, no jobs. No jobs, you starve. Brilliant move Sherlock.

The fortunate 400

400 tax returns reporting the highest incomes in 2009.

Six American families paid no federal income taxes in 2009 while making something on the order of $200 million each.
another 110 families paid 15 percent or less in federal income taxes.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/06/us-column-dcjohnston-top-idUSBRE85500720120606

The 400 richest Americans used to pay 30% of their income on the average to Uncle Sam(but 55% in 1955).


Yeah, the 'rich' create jobs *shaking head* Ever look around and recognize without demand, jobs aren't created?


The US corporate business model has changed: It used to be based on sharing profits with workers to incentivize them and generate loyalty. Now, the model has shifted to rewarding not workers, but shareholders and upper management.. So, as corporate profits soar, the rich get richer and workers are told they are lucky to even have a job so stop whining about income disparity.



A recent IRS study found that one in every 189 taxpayers earning $200,000 or more in adjusted gross income paid no income tax in 2009, the most recent year for which complete data is available. That's more than 10,000 wealthy households paying no taxes anywhere in the world, and more than 35,000 paying no U.S. income tax.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/06/05/wealthy-pay-no-taxes-muni-bonds-deductions-1-percent/

 

[Dad2three]

Keep running with that class struggle thing. It's very original and forward thinking.

It worked great the last few times it was tried. I can see why you'd want to try it again.

Why is it class war fare when we fight back?


"I want my freedom back."

RWers love to use ad nauseam words and phrases that have nothing to do with veracity or reality. Phrases to wind up the lowest common denominator.

 

[Listening]

Plutocrats need to STFU, pay their taxes, ride their goldplated jet skis and be thankful we haven't eaten them alive yet.

I don't know of a single rich person who doesn't pay any taxes.

As far as eating them alive, you'd only be harming yourself. No rich, no jobs. No jobs, you starve. Brilliant move Sherlock.

The fortunate 400

400 tax returns reporting the highest incomes in 2009.

Six American families paid no federal income taxes in 2009 while making something on the order of $200 million each.
another 110 families paid 15 percent or less in federal income taxes.


The fortunate 400: David Cay Johnston | Reuters

The 400 richest Americans used to pay 30% of their income on the average to Uncle Sam(but 55% in 1955).


Yeah, the 'rich' create jobs *shaking head* Ever look around and recognize without demand, jobs aren't created?


The US corporate business model has changed: It used to be based on sharing profits with workers to incentivize them and generate loyalty. Now, the model has shifted to rewarding not workers, but shareholders and upper management.. So, as corporate profits soar, the rich get richer and workers are told they are lucky to even have a job so stop whining about income disparity.



A recent IRS study found that one in every 189 taxpayers earning $200,000 or more in adjusted gross income paid no income tax in 2009, the most recent year for which complete data is available. That's more than 10,000 wealthy households paying no taxes anywhere in the world, and more than 35,000 paying no U.S. income tax.

How Thousands of Wealthy People Pay No Taxes (It's Totally Legal) - DailyFinance

Wow...1 in 189.....Terrible !!!!!!

If you do the reverse math, you see how many people are making over 200K.

That is America !

Thanks Ronald Reagan for all you did.

 

[Dad2three]

I'm so sick of people crying victim.

Man up and pull your own weight and stop whining it's disgusting.

Between the end of World War II and the late 1970s, incomes in the United States were becoming more equal. In other words, incomes at the bottom were rising faster than those at the top. Since the late 1970s, this trend has reversed.

Data from tax returns show that the top 1 percent of households received 8.9 percent of all pre-tax income in 1976. In 2008, the top 1 percent share had more than doubled to 21.0 percent.

This level of income inequality, research shows, endangers our society, on a variety of fronts.

Income Inequality | Inequality.org

 

[Mathbud1]

The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says

Across the board, the more CEOs get paid, the worse their companies do over the next three years, according to extensive new research. This is true whether they’re CEOs at the highest end of the pay spectrum or the lowest. “The more CEOs are paid, the worse the firm does over the next three years, as far as stock performance and even accounting performance,” says one of the authors of the study, Michael Cooper of the University of Utah’s David Eccles School of Business.


The Highest-Paid CEOs Are The Worst Performers, New Study Says - Forbes

Spam it up friend. If you don't actually address what people say in their posts, you are no better than a spam bot.

THIS image addressed it, along with the others Bubba

Yeah, actually it didn't. At all.

Bubba.

 

[williepete]