Why the fight against Birth Control?

[Tilly]

If a guy doesn't get given money for boats, what impact does it have on society? If someone doesn't get birth control, what impact does it have on society?

Don't have sex. You're a sentient being. 10s of millions of people stop themselves from having sex every day. Some have sex. Your choice. You're passing the buck. Your bad decision becomes my problem. Don't cause the problem.

Oh, yeah, and.... that's worked, hasn't it?

Oh, wait, no it hasn't. The abstinence without birth control form of "education" is the worst form of education.

Yes, people's bad choice becomes your problem. So, the CHEAPEST way of dealing with it is to have a targeted campaign of birth control. There's no way to solve this by saying "I don't want to pay for stuff", you pay or you pay more.

But we taxpayers already do pay for it. The government already subsidizes Planned Parenthood. Who gives out free condoms. The parasites are just too lazy to go get them and use them. Now they want us to buy them a more expensive form of BC, with the pill... And don't think it stops there. Once they can secure us paying for their BC pills they will angle for us paying for their even more expensive IUDs. **** that! They already have access to BC. The fact of the matter is they want other people to pay, so that they can have the "best of the best". ******* parasites!

Not to mention that oral contraceptives don't protect against STDs and is therefore not necessarily the best choice of BC for those indulging in casual sex - and then others foot the bill for that treatment too.

 

[Vastator]

[

Oh, yeah, and.... that's worked, hasn't it?

Oh, wait, no it hasn't. The abstinence without birth control form of "education" is the worst form of education.

Yes, people's bad choice becomes your problem. So, the CHEAPEST way of dealing with it is to have a targeted campaign of birth control. There's no way to solve this by saying "I don't want to pay for stuff", you pay or you pay more.

So the answer is to reward people and enable their behaviour? it has already been pointed out, a planned parenthood you can get rubbers for free. Be my guest

Firstly, the behavior happens. Where I grew up, in a small place with a few hundred people, a 13 year old got pregnant. Why do you think that was?

I worked with a guy who left his job to do a PhD in Biology, he had an STD, why do you think that was?

I went on a combi in Lesotho and when the combi got to the last stop in some rural-ish place, everyone who got off but me went to the HIV/AIDS hospital. A poster in the capital had the HIV/AIDS rate of every region in the country. The lowest was 19%. They estimate that women of child bearing age in the capital had a 50%+ rate.

You can talk about not having sex, but it happens regardless of what you will say. It happens to intellectual people and stupid people, it happens to most people.

And for those people who tell others not to do it, well, they can scream and shout all they like, but it won't solve the problem. We know how to solve the problem, and we know how to avoid the problem. I have ask, why do you choose the latter?

I chose the latter because I can do it effectively. Furthermore any problem others encounter due to failure to conduct themselves the same; is only inflicted upon me due to socialistic policies which in turn cost me money. I don't care about these other people. And the answer to how socialism ails me, is not more socialism.

 

[Tilly]

It is utterly typical of leftards to discourage the belief that the root cause of a problem can actually be dealt with - but advocate instead throwing everyone else's hard earned money at the symptoms of the problem.

This is particularly so if/when there is a moral dimension to the issue, when personal responsibility of PARENTS and young people is an issue, and when they perceive solving the problem also includes some form of a 'judgemental' attitude.

Leftards have been appropriating the role of parents for years and have inculcated kids with the belief they can do what they want, won't be held responsible, are not accountable, and that 'society' will be blamed and will take on the burden of their poor judgement and self indulgence.

This is NOT the way to raise children, but it is the leftards dream, producing generations of irresponsible people who cannot survive without the nanny state and for whom it is acceptable to blame anyone and everyone but themselves for their failures.

Welfare is supposed to be a safety net, not a way of life. But leftards aspire to the opposite, through crippling those who work hard and earn in order to pay for the spongers they willfully create. Enough already!

 

[Fenton Lum]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

If you think abortion is horrible, then why don't you want to take steps to reduce it? If free birth control and education help people make the right choices, it makes sense to do it.

Your attitude seems more about punishment that responsibility and doesn't seem like it would do anything about actually preventing the problem . You have labeled them all whores and cast them out of humanity.

Do you support sex education in schools?

I do want to. Hence saying it should be illegal. If Liberals actually upheld the constitution in the first place, abortion wouldn't be a thing.

Birth control doesn't help people make the right decision, it encourages being a whore. You're suggesting counterproductive steps to solve a problem, much like all Liberal policies.

Cast them out of humanity? Not so, most people are awful, I'm considering them a part of that. In the real world, one takes responsibility for their actions and deals with it, rather than relying on tax payers to cover for it. If people actually start realizing what such a mistake can do to their lives, they'll be less likely to make those mistakes... much like criminals being punished. Liberals are attempting to remove the consequences of these mistakes, thus encouraging said mistakes... much like banning the death penalty.

I don't know~

Of course...you do realize a number of innocent people have been executed?

Fewer innocent people would be hurt if criminals were executed, even assuming a few innocent people died along the way~

Colateral damage is acceptable to long is it doesn't affect me.

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

If you think abortion is horrible, then why don't you want to take steps to reduce it? If free birth control and education help people make the right choices, it makes sense to do it.

Your attitude seems more about punishment that responsibility and doesn't seem like it would do anything about actually preventing the problem . You have labeled them all whores and cast them out of humanity.

Do you support sex education in schools?

I do want to. Hence saying it should be illegal. If Liberals actually upheld the constitution in the first place, abortion wouldn't be a thing.

Birth control doesn't help people make the right decision, it encourages being a whore. You're suggesting counterproductive steps to solve a problem, much like all Liberal policies.

Cast them out of humanity? Not so, most people are awful, I'm considering them a part of that. In the real world, one takes responsibility for their actions and deals with it, rather than relying on tax payers to cover for it. If people actually start realizing what such a mistake can do to their lives, they'll be less likely to make those mistakes... much like criminals being punished. Liberals are attempting to remove the consequences of these mistakes, thus encouraging said mistakes... much like banning the death penalty.

I don't know~

Of course...you do realize a number of innocent people have been executed?

Fewer innocent people would be hurt if criminals were executed, even assuming a few innocent people died along the way~

Collateral damage is acceptable to long is it doesn't affect me. That's how we've arranged our society and economic system. And that mindset over time will make us less globaly competitive with societies who behave more like teams. But that is certainly how we will procede.

 

[Tilly]

There are many reasons to have a "casual" relationship, and if both parties are mature, sober, and respectful of one another, I see no problem with it.

If both parties are 'mature, sober and respectful of one another', they are obviously capable of procuring their own contraception
And I'm not convinced 'respect for one another' is that prevalent among those indulging in casual sex, regardless of what they might say.

 

[Fenton Lum]

[

Oh, yeah, and.... that's worked, hasn't it?

Oh, wait, no it hasn't. The abstinence without birth control form of "education" is the worst form of education.

Yes, people's bad choice becomes your problem. So, the CHEAPEST way of dealing with it is to have a targeted campaign of birth control. There's no way to solve this by saying "I don't want to pay for stuff", you pay or you pay more.

So the answer is to reward people and enable their behaviour? it has already been pointed out, a planned parenthood you can get rubbers for free. Be my guest

Firstly, the behavior happens. Where I grew up, in a small place with a few hundred people, a 13 year old got pregnant. Why do you think that was?

I worked with a guy who left his job to do a PhD in Biology, he had an STD, why do you think that was?

I went on a combi in Lesotho and when the combi got to the last stop in some rural-ish place, everyone who got off but me went to the HIV/AIDS hospital. A poster in the capital had the HIV/AIDS rate of every region in the country. The lowest was 19%. They estimate that women of child bearing age in the capital had a 50%+ rate.

You can talk about not having sex, but it happens regardless of what you will say. It happens to intellectual people and stupid people, it happens to most people.

And for those people who tell others not to do it, well, they can scream and shout all they like, but it won't solve the problem. We know how to solve the problem, and we know how to avoid the problem. I have ask, why do you choose the latter?

I chose the latter because I can do it effectively. Furthermore any problem others encounter due to failure to conduct themselves the same; is only inflicted upon me due to socialistic policies which in turn cost me money. I don't care about these other people. And the answer to how socialism ails me, is not more socialism.

But of course, everyone's coming after your money. Like your guns.

 

[Fenton Lum]

There are many reasons to have a "casual" relationship, and if both parties are mature, sober, and respectful of one another, I see no problem with it.

If both parties are 'mature, sober and respectful of one another', they are obviously capable of procuring their own contraception

I wonder what the condom toll is on society. Anyone seen any numbers on that? Say up against the cost of a bogus war or something like that.

 

[danielpalos]

Why is the right wing, fantastical enough to complain about both, the cost of an ounce of prevention And the cost of a pound of cure?

 

[Vastator]

Why is the right wing, fantastical enough to complain about both, the cost of an ounce of prevention And the cost of a pound of cure?

Because it isn't my responsibility to fund your prevention, or cure. Simple as that.

 

[Fenton Lum]

That's fine, your view is your view. Just wanted to make sure I understood that the outcome for the rest of society comes second to your belief system. So at that point there's no need for evidence of societal outcomes or any other discussion as far as the rest of society goes, you just want what you want and you think that is some kind of moral underpinning.

That's a great deal of the problem with american society, we don't really have one, a society, we have a bunch of individuals who don't give a **** about society at all, they just want whatever they want with no regard for their fellow citizens. That's their view of some type of morality. "I believe xyz and I don't really care about what that might mean for the rest of society, and evidence and reality have no bearing on what I believe".

No, I'm wondering why if I go to the movies you won't pay for my recreational activity, but you expect me to pay for yours? You seem to have so little faith in the human race that they can't make up their own minds whether they should shag without protection or not. And if they chose not to somehow that reflects on my belief system not their life choice.

You have me wrong. Almost daily I'm accused of being left of Lenin. I do give a **** about society. A guy I know races boats. Costs him about $15000 a year. Should I pay for that too. Your default position seems to be that when people make bad decisions, instead of them being held accountable we should pay for them because if we don't it is somehow a lesser society. Do you think that is a great message to send? I don't.

No one's asking you to pay for anything hon, relax.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Why is the right wing, fantastical enough to complain about both, the cost of an ounce of prevention And the cost of a pound of cure?

Because it isn't my responsibility to fund your prevention, or cure. Simple as that.

If you would apply that concept across the board it would, but you don't.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

From any metric you look at it by it makes far far far more sense to pay for birth control than it does to pay for the costs of having a kid that a parent couldn't afford.

Folks are always going to have sex, so the best thing to do is to pay for the damn pill and reduce the costs for everyone involved.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

You're not getting laid and you don't want anyone else to get something you can't have.

I'm 15, I don't want to "get laid", nor would I have any interest if I was older.

Casual sex isn't nearly the problem you believe it to be. In fact, there are some forms of cancer which are more prevalent in people who live chaste lives. For example, nuns have a much higher rate of breast cancer than the general population.

Link?

There is a lot to be said for having sex, outside of the obvious. Humans are not meant to be celibate. We're not designed that way. The instinct to procreate is second only to the survival instinct in humans.

Sounds like you're trying to justify this life style because you're part of it.

I find your "morality" to be laughable. Having sex is a wonderful thing. God wouldn't issue the equipment if He hadn't meant for us to use it.

Seems you missed the point entirely, but I've noticed you're a drone. I never said "Don't sleep with anyone ever".

There are many reasons to have a "casual" relationship, and if both parties are mature, sober, and respectful of one another, I see no problem with it. Where there is a power imbalance, coercion, or abuse, it is immoral.

"It's okay to be a slut if you're an adult".

People have sex. People have sex if they don't have sex education. People have sex if they don't have borth control. It's natural.

Said people are expecting the consequences of said actions, and I'm fine with that. They can also deal with said consequences themselves. They can buy birth control themselves, and if they choose not to or can't afford it, they can either choose not to take the risk, or deal with the consequences on their own. I don't care, as long as others don't pay for either.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

But then someone will always have to pay. Either they pay for birth control, or they end up paying for the kid once it's born. Which is cheaper? Especially when the child ends up committing crimes.

I don't care, it's a personal problem and a person responsibility, dependent on a personal decision, and nobody else should have to deal with the cost one way or the other.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Collateral damage is acceptable to long is it doesn't affect me. That's how we've arranged our society and economic system. And that mindset over time will make us less globaly competitive with societies who behave more like teams. But that is certainly how we will procede.

Collateral damage is acceptable as long as fewer people are hurt than the alternative. Why don't you just move to Russia instead of conspiring to destroy America? You'd be surrounded by like-minded ignorant clods.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

But then someone will always have to pay. Either they pay for birth control, or they end up paying for the kid once it's born. Which is cheaper? Especially when the child ends up committing crimes.

I don't care, it's a personal problem and a person responsibility, dependent on a personal decision, and nobody else should have to deal with the cost one way or the other.

Oh god so know you're against charity, holding doors open for strangers, stopping to help someone with a broke down car, pushing a car out of a snow drift???

 

[Pumpkin Row]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

But then someone will always have to pay. Either they pay for birth control, or they end up paying for the kid once it's born. Which is cheaper? Especially when the child ends up committing crimes.

I don't care, it's a personal problem and a person responsibility, dependent on a personal decision, and nobody else should have to deal with the cost one way or the other.

Oh god so know you're against charity, holding doors open for strangers, stopping to help someone with a broke down car, pushing a car out of a snow drift???

That's are all decisions made by an individual to help another, which is how charity should be, a personal decision, willingly made. Forced charity is simply thievery. You're drawing false conclusions in an attempt to strawman my argument.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You want to make them take responsibility but you don't want to make that choice any easier by providing free bc.

You think abortion is horrible but you don't want to reduce the rates by making birth control free.

You want them to suffer the consequences for their bad choices but those consequences may include children which you also don't want to support on the government dime.

It seems that it's not just about personal responsibility, it's about moral judgements and punishment.

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

But then someone will always have to pay. Either they pay for birth control, or they end up paying for the kid once it's born. Which is cheaper? Especially when the child ends up committing crimes.

I don't care, it's a personal problem and a person responsibility, dependent on a personal decision, and nobody else should have to deal with the cost one way or the other.

Oh god so know you're against charity, holding doors open for strangers, stopping to help someone with a broke down car, pushing a car out of a snow drift???

That's are all decisions made by an individual to help another, which is how charity should be, a personal decision, willingly made. Forced charity is simply thievery. You're drawing false conclusions in an attempt to strawman my argument.

Giving a little girl free birth control what does it cost like $5 bucks or something.. Forced charity?

 

[Coyote]

As I've said. BC should be free.
It ends a whole lot of issues.

Ironically and paradoxically, free birth control is a lot less expensive socially than unwanted children are.

Birth control and abortions have been available for a long time. I think some choose to have the babies just for the welfare. I've met some like that. If the women choose to ignore the many options for preventing pregnancy, then whose fault it is if a child is unwanted?

Birth control is so cheap and I thought it was free at Planned Parenthood. Do you plan on taking the pills to women and forcing them to take them? They have the option now and it's not difficult to get them. Don't schools still give away free condoms? Either they are too stupid or they want to get pregnant. Are their parents also really stupid? Why do libs think it's up to the state to take care of things that should be the responsibility of parents and individuals? And why would people ever change when the state makes sure that they never face the consequences of their actions? Teen pregnancies have increased after years of liberal education. Nice going.

Teen pregnancies have been decreasing both birth rates, pregnancy rates and abortion rates. Thanks to "liberal education".

Why is the teen birth rate falling?

This is attributed to a combination of factors - less sex, better contraception, and more information about pregnancy prevention.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Of course it's horrible, and unconstitutional, which is why it should be illegal. Yet you don't seem to think that people should be held accountable for their actions. If people are given birth control with other people's money, they aren't being held accountable.

Guess they should think about that before sleeping around.

Not true. Nobody else should be forced to pay for someone else's stuff. Something liberals seem take as the solution to literally everything. Something's wrong with society? Let everyone shirk their own responsibilities and everyone else can pay for it.

But then someone will always have to pay. Either they pay for birth control, or they end up paying for the kid once it's born. Which is cheaper? Especially when the child ends up committing crimes.

I don't care, it's a personal problem and a person responsibility, dependent on a personal decision, and nobody else should have to deal with the cost one way or the other.

Oh god so know you're against charity, holding doors open for strangers, stopping to help someone with a broke down car, pushing a car out of a snow drift???

That's are all decisions made by an individual to help another, which is how charity should be, a personal decision, willingly made. Forced charity is simply thievery. You're drawing false conclusions in an attempt to strawman my argument.

Giving a little girl free birth control what does it cost like $5 bucks or something.. Forced charity?

Stealing any amount of money from someone else to give to another is thievery and forced charity, yes. You're also intentionally ignoring the fact that it's not only more than one girl, but any that decide that for whatever reason keeping your legs closed is difficult, and also that it's not just once. Any amount of forced charity is wrong, regardless, but this would be for something that's not absolutely necessary and encourages immorality.