Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time

[JoeB131]

This idea that Anne Frank, a child, goes to hell, is absurd. She, as a child, did not know Christ or the Gospel of the Church. If she has a good heart and is moved by grace she will receive eternal salvation.

Ann Frank was 16 when she died. Hardly a child.

So when is the cut off for otherwise good people to not go to Hell if they aren't praying to the right Sky Pixie? 17? 26?

As for Dahmer, if he is sincere, that is for God, who is all knowing and all benevolent, to decide. You are not all knowing or all benevolent, and cannot know Dahmer's heart.

I would say the idea that one who truly has a change of heart cannot gain redemption, in this life or the next, is fucked up.

I don't know Dahmner's heart.

I do know that he killed and ate 17 people. Sorry, there should be consequences for that. We don't let people out of prison if they tell the judge that they are really, really, really sorry.

 

[JoeB131]

I like how the only like you get for trashing mother teresa is from the hateful and anti-christian communist "jew" guno and are basically copying fat **** hitchens verbatim.

So if you work for a charity, you can receive medical care better than those you serve, but if you run the charity, you can't? This is absurd and makes no sense. So by your standard, if I start a charity in Africa to alleviate suffering, and cannot provide a western level of medicine, I have no right to seek high level medical care if I have the means? What utter garbage. You are just hating her not because you care one iota for the poor she consoled and provided for, but because you hate her for being a woman of faith. Even Hitchens more or less admitted he hated Mother Teresa most of all because she didn't support birth control. At the end of the day, your hate for her is based on a shallow and leftist vendetta against her.

I think it would depend on what the disparity is. The disparity for the employees/volunteers at most charities is they give adequate care to the indigent, and they get the same Corporate managed health care the rest of us get. That is hardly the same as Mother Teresa flying off for the best cancer treatment in the world vs. letting people die on dirty floors in her miserable hospital.

Oh, the fact that a lot of the donations for her hospital didn't go to the Hospital but ended up in the Vatican Bank- you know, the one that was tied in with the Mafia - doesn't speak well for her.

I like how the war mongering fat alcoholic hitchens, who spent his whole life pontificating and being an degenerate glutton, as the nerve to declare mother teresa immoral. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad and disgusting on his part and yours.

Not seeing how enjoying food or drink necessarily made Hitchens a bad person. Yes, I think his support of the Iraq War was foolish, but a lot of got fooled by Bush and Company. So I can't hold that against him.

You are just looking for reasons to hate her, this idea she is immoral because she didn't build western style hospitals isn't rational hate, and is hypocritical considering neither you nor Hitchens did even a fraction of what she did to alleviate the suffering of others, if anything at all.

Actually, she probably made the suffering worse, not better. Because she had some sadistic view that suffering was good.

Ah, the best part of the gay rights movement... Catholic Women figured out there was nothing wrong with being a lesbian and stopped being nuns.

As for taking money from dictators, she should return the money to dictators instead of giving it to the poor? what sick and twisted logic is that?

Actually, the twisted logic is that instead of insisting that these people change their behavior, she allowed them to think that they were somehow, some way "redeeming" themselves by donating to the Hospital er... Vatican Bank.

 

[Meriweather]

I was watching a "NOVA" special on religion specifically the time around the 1400s and how property and land holdings were proven at the time. It showed records of the oldest deeds and how the churches became wealthier. I wish I could provide a better refference but that is a starting point. From what I can remember it had to do with some famines and the people died and just left and the churches just took the land of the starving people. I wish I could remember more specifics.

The fourteenth century, perhaps? When people talk of today being close to end times, I don't think we can hold a candle to what people were enduring in the 1300 and 1400s. A little ice age had occurred, and then pouring rains produced famine across the land. These were the days of the bubonic plague, and between famine and plague--and some other natural disasters--the population was decimated. There was no separation of Church and State in those days, but it does appear there were many quarrels and squabbles over who should take over the land that was abandoned (due to death or famine). Local officials? National officials? The Church? We probably see this most in France--which was hit by climate, floods, famine, and plague. It was during this time the Pope had left Rome and set up rule in France--and was on hand to tussle over the land in France.

While the poorer, local churches did seem to do all they could to help their suffering community, it was clear they were over their heads. With death occurring to so many so quickly, the Church ordained that anyone (including women) could hear confessions and perform last rights.

Meanwhile the Pope and his court were making a laughing stock over vows of celibacy and poverty. When one pope tried to make reforms, he was denounced and with government help, another was elected. Some refused to follow the new pope, some the old. It was quite a mess. With all this going on, is it a wonder that the fourteenth century world the anti-Christ was also among them and end times were upon them?

So while I couldn't find any notes of any Inquisition being the foundation for land grabs, quarrels over land during the famines and plague did occur. These were dark times for the Church, especially at the level of Pope, even down to many bishops. Then, a couple hundred years later, it would be government who would be commandeering monasteries and Church properties.

 

[HUGGY]

I was watching a "NOVA" special on religion specifically the time around the 1400s and how property and land holdings were proven at the time. It showed records of the oldest deeds and how the churches became wealthier. I wish I could provide a better refference but that is a starting point. From what I can remember it had to do with some famines and the people died and just left and the churches just took the land of the starving people. I wish I could remember more specifics.

Thanks for fleshing out the point I was attempting to add to this topic.

The fourteenth century, perhaps? When people talk of today being close to end times, I don't think we can hold a candle to what people were enduring in the 1300 and 1400s. A little ice age had occurred, and then pouring rains produced famine across the land. These were the days of the bubonic plague, and between famine and plague--and some other natural disasters--the population was decimated. There was no separation of Church and State in those days, but it does appear there were many quarrels and squabbles over who should take over the land that was abandoned (due to death or famine). Local officials? National officials? The Church? We probably see this most in France--which was hit by climate, floods, famine, and plague. It was during this time the Pope had left Rome and set up rule in France--and was on hand to tussle over the land in France.

While the poorer, local churches did seem to do all they could to help their suffering community, it was clear they were over their heads. With death occurring to so many so quickly, the Church ordained that anyone (including women) could hear confessions and perform last rights.

Meanwhile the Pope and his court were making a laughing stock over vows of celibacy and poverty. When one pope tried to make reforms, he was denounced and with government help, another was elected. Some refused to follow the new pope, some the old. It was quite a mess. With all this going on, is it a wonder that the fourteenth century world the anti-Christ was also among them and end times were upon them?

So while I couldn't find any notes of any Inquisition being the foundation for land grabs, quarrels over land during the famines and plague did occur. These were dark times for the Church, especially at the level of Pope, even down to many bishops. Then, a couple hundred years later, it would be government who would be commandeering monasteries and Church properties.

 

[hobelim]

Or that when the Jews weren't buying it, they changed the sales tactic for Pagans and told them that weenie chopping was out and the Shrimp Cocktails were in.

But the mean-spirited shit about Slavery and Burning Witches? Yeah, we are totally keeping that.

LOL...

Except the Bible says that they are real, and you need to kill the shit out of them.

The fact is, Canon Law didn't change. What changed was that we got technologically advanced enough to realize that there were no witches. God didn't change, we did.

No witches? Don't be silly. That's like saying there are no sorcerers or no such thing as talking snakes even though one is trying to convince people that the divine commands have been set aside right in front of your eyes just like the same species of talking serpent that is described in great detail in Genesis.

People have become more technologically advance but they haven't really changed. Foxes have their holes, birds have their nests, sorcerers are still practicing sorcery, witches are still charming, devils are still accumulating people like possessions, ghouls and goblins are still kissing ass, wolves are still running in packs, the gullible are still being led like sheep to the slaughterhouse, vultures are still feasting on the dead, while the dedicated remain true to their dedication..

We use different words, but its the same old story.

 

[irosie91]

Very good piece on the virgin birth story and the evolution of the Jesus story over time.

Not-So-Virgin Birth Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time Alternet

excellent essay, guno dear------your one good post. TIME-LINE is so often the only way to find an answer-------in all fields of study-------In the solving of crimes. the diagnosis of
illness------and ALL OF HISTORY "HISTORY" is the word doctors use to describe the most important aspect of
their attempt to make a correct diagnosis. ----that is the
information elicited from the patient (usually---but sometimes people close to the patient and----past records
get thrown in) Diagnosis is 95 % history and ----a few percent exam and lab studies. Some lawyers claim that use a similar technique to get at the "truth"---which in general is simply what they want to be the "truth"

 

[Penelope]

Very good piece on the virgin birth story and the evolution of the Jesus story over time.

Not-So-Virgin Birth Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time Alternet

Very good piece on the virgin birth story and the evolution of the Jesus story over time.

Not-So-Virgin Birth Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time Alternet

I'll grant there was no virgin birth, but I doubt the existence of the OT characters as well and this "

Early Judaism was very focused on purity—pure foods, unblemished bodies, and female sexual abstinence that ensured pure bloodlines for God’s chosen people. The Apostle Paul made sexual purity central to mainstream Roman Christianity. To a believer steeped in Rome’s tradition of divine insemination and Judaism’s tradition of virtuous virginity, a divine virgin birth might seem like exactly how Jesus should be born."

Judaism was never monotheistic and you were not pure. Incest and intermarriage and having sex slaves, called comcubines were very normal in Judaic or herbrew life.

 

[irosie91]

Very good piece on the virgin birth story and the evolution of the Jesus story over time.

Not-So-Virgin Birth Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time Alternet

Very good piece on the virgin birth story and the evolution of the Jesus story over time.

Not-So-Virgin Birth Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time Alternet

I'll grant there was no virgin birth, but I doubt the existence of the OT characters as well and this "

Early Judaism was very focused on purity—pure foods, unblemished bodies, and female sexual abstinence that ensured pure bloodlines for God’s chosen people. The Apostle Paul made sexual purity central to mainstream Roman Christianity. To a believer steeped in Rome’s tradition of divine insemination and Judaism’s tradition of virtuous virginity, a divine virgin birth might seem like exactly how Jesus should be born."

Judaism was never monotheistic and you were not pure. Incest and intermarriage and having sex slaves, called comcubines were very normal in Judaic or herbrew life.

Judaism was always monotheistic------Incest was considered a very grave sin and illegal ---there were
no sex slaves. According to jewish law sex with a slave
constitutes marriage. The woman becomes a wife. Did
you learn about Judaism in a mosque or in the brothel in which you were born-----what is the "herbrew way of life"---
Please to not describe your way of life-----I just at lunch

 

[Penelope]

Very good piece on the virgin birth story and the evolution of the Jesus story over time.

Not-So-Virgin Birth Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time Alternet

Very good piece on the virgin birth story and the evolution of the Jesus story over time.

Not-So-Virgin Birth Why Stories of Jesus Became More Magical Over Time Alternet

I'll grant there was no virgin birth, but I doubt the existence of the OT characters as well and this "

Early Judaism was very focused on purity—pure foods, unblemished bodies, and female sexual abstinence that ensured pure bloodlines for God’s chosen people. The Apostle Paul made sexual purity central to mainstream Roman Christianity. To a believer steeped in Rome’s tradition of divine insemination and Judaism’s tradition of virtuous virginity, a divine virgin birth might seem like exactly how Jesus should be born."

Judaism was never monotheistic and you were not pure. Incest and intermarriage and having sex slaves, called comcubines were very normal in Judaic or herbrew life.

Judaism was always monotheistic------Incest was considered a very grave sin and illegal ---there were
no sex slaves. According to jewish law sex with a slave
constitutes marriage. The woman becomes a wife. Did
you learn about Judaism in a mosque or in the brothel in which you were born-----what is the "herbrew way of life"---
Please to not describe your way of life-----I just at lunch

Yes that's why Solomon built an altar to another god, and had what 1000 concubines? That is the whole of the OT, adultery with other gods, have you not read the OT. God said he was a jealous God, which is one of the deadly sins, jealousy. Intermarriage, incest, deception, murder, adultery with God and within marriage.

 

[Vandalshandle]

"Hear old Israel, our lord God is One", =monotheism.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I'm not a christian, I'm just pointing out that you spread hate on a day you know is holy to most, b/c hate is all you are

I suppose it must be easier to accuse guno of hate than it is to even try and resolve the valid points that he makes that precludes the possibility that the stories about the birth of Jesus are the literal truth.

Its not like there is no reason to suspect the stories may have been altered, exaggerated, or are allegorical given well known scientific facts about the realities of biological reproduction that every Christian knows by the age of 12... unless they have been deprived of an education..

What difference does it make if Jesus came into the world in the usual way? So what if God never actually became a human being? Is it really easier to believe that Jesus had no human father than it is to to believe that the stories were edited by rome and the teachings of Jesus were buried under a mountain of blasphemy upon which the roman church was built and all other denominations branched out from?

They should thank him for even trying to wake them up from their dreamworld.

wow, go **** your arrogant self

thank that vile dung liker? I think not.

You know damn well it's just hating on Christmas to hate on Christmas, he's got no other reason for this thread