Why Social Security Needs a Good Audit and Housecleaning

[WorldWatcher]

So, you're banking on the house flipping in two years....That's a pretty big gamble....

Considering that...

(A) The House often flip's the party in control at mid-terms and it's at pretty close to an even 50/50 split.

(B) There are a lot of people getting fired for no reason.

(C) Government services will decrease.

(D) Unemployment will increase.

(E) Tariffs will increase inflation.

(F) With cuts to ED impacting funds for SPED Students, Poor School Districts, Student Loans, Pell Grants, etc.
.
.
.
.
There will not only be pain, there are going to be a lot of pissed off people.

So It's not that hard to imagine.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

Especially if Trump returns $5000 of the government waste to taxpayers….while the Dems try to block it.

Instead of decreasing deficit, decreasing debt - cut a check. That's a very liberal thing to do.

They are going to push for another $4.5 TRILLION in debt while giving tax breaks - going mostly to the wealthy - and try to buy votes for the mid-terms for $5,000.

Sounds like a solid plan.

WW

 

[Foxfyre]

Maybe there needs to be a requirement for the cemetery to report the names of those buried.

The simplest solution is to have the entities that issue the death certificates transmit those to the Social Security Adm.

 

[kyzr]

That's because it IS NOT the IG's job to fix things. The IG's job is to audit and report.

It takes CONGRESS to fix things. The IG has been pointing out a problem since at least 2015 but CONGRESS has provided the funding to (a) fix the one problem, and (b) upgrade/replace their 60 year old COBOL system which is basically a dead programming language in the enterprise/business world. Don't act like this is something new. WW

1. The OIG's office is supposed to audit systems and find AND FIX fraud or theft of benefits, i.e. stop illegal payments. See the examples in the link below. There are a lot of cases that the OIG found. But, the DOGE Whiz Kids might be able to find a lot more a lot quicker, like the 110+ year old recipients. I assume the DOJ prosecutes the offenders.

Social Security Administration OIG | Oversight.gov

www.oversight.gov

2. I agree that Congress can modernize the ancient entitlement computer systems, and there is no one better on the planet than Musk and his Whiz Kids to tell congress what system to buy. Trump is in office one month, and congress needs to pass the reconciliation package by the 14th of March or the government shuts down. So all in due time. Democrats had majorities and did nothing but commit fraud, so patience is called for.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The simplest solution is to have the entities that issue the death certificates transmit those to the Social Security Adm.

I disagree.

The easier solution to the larger problem (not justs SS) is to have the entity that issues the death certificate transmit that to the State Department responsible for vital statistics.

That department then transmits information electronically to:

• State Department of Taxation - who then notifies those on state returns for W-2's and 1099's (Employers, Pensions, Banks) of the death so additional accounts can be locked.
• IRS - Same reason as state taxation
• SSA - Termination of benefits
• HHS - Immigration control so if someone tries to entry the country using that ID
• State Department - Update immigration and naturalization records for non-citizens

The entity reports once, that information then needs to be shared.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

1. The OIG's office is supposed to audit systems and find AND FIX fraud...

This is where your fundmental error is.

IG's do not FIX the problems, they report the problems to the Agency Head and Congress. It's up to the Agency and Congress to FIX the issue.

In some cases involving criminal activity, the IG can notify DOJ of the need for a criminal investigation.

WW

 

[Lisa558]

Instead of decreasing deficit, decreasing debt - cut a check. That's a very liberal thing to do.

They are going to push for another $4.5 TRILLION in debt while giving tax breaks - going mostly to the wealthy - and try to buy votes for the mid-terms for $5,000.

Sounds like a solid plan.

WW

They’re dividing up the excess government spending, INCLUDING paying down the debt.

But it’s only fair, given how hard-working taxpayers were forced to pay for wasteful liberal programs, that a fraction is retuned to them.

What are you afraid of? That once taxpayers feel the positive impact of Trump’s overdue cuts to government, we’ll win in the midterms?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Democrats had majorities and did nothing but commit fraud, so patience is called for.

Go back an look at the division of party control for the Oval Office, Senate, and House.

Republican's had majorities also and did nothing but commit fraud. Hell, Republicans even elected a convicted fraud and felon in the White House.

WW

 

[Lisa558]

I really think the $5,000 return of overcharged taxes should be put up to a vote in Congress - and the vote should be public.

 

[WorldWatcher]

They’re dividing up the excess government spending, INCLUDING paying down the debt.

But it’s only fair, given how hard-working taxpayers were forced to pay for wasteful liberal programs, that a fraction is retuned to them.

What are you afraid of? That once taxpayers feel the positive impact of Trump’s overdue cuts to government, we’ll win in the midterms?

As an Anti-Trump Republican I'm not afraid of anything. I'd just like to see sanity return to my party and the cultists aren't it.

WW

 

[kyzr]

This is where your fundamental error is.
IG's do not FIX the problems, they report the problems to the Agency Head and Congress. It's up to the Agency and Congress to FIX the issue. In some cases involving criminal activity, the IG can notify DOJ of the need for a criminal investigation.
WW

OK, I can agree with that.
But it still doesn't explain why DOGE found so many 110+ recipients, and non-citizens, and others obviously not entitled to benefits. If I put my partisan tinfoil hat on and recall Lois Lerner's affinity for running the IRS in a very partisan way that perhaps a fresh non-partisan audit might find a lot of fraud. Just sayin'.

 

[Foxfyre]

I disagree.

The easier solution to the larger problem (not justs SS) is to have the entity that issues the death certificate transmit that to the State Department responsible for vital statistics.

That department then transmits information electronically to:

• State Department of Taxation - who then notifies those on state returns for W-2's and 1099's (Employers, Pensions, Banks) of the death so additional accounts can be locked.
• IRS - Same reason as state taxation
• SSA - Termination of benefits
• HHS - Immigration control so if someone tries to entry the country using that ID
• State Department - Update immigration and naturalization records for non-citizens

The entity reports once, that information then needs to be shared.

With modern computer systems the states can easily share information of a death with all entities that have a legal interest in that death.

 

[kyzr]

Go back an look at the division of party control for the Oval Office, Senate, and House.
Republican's had majorities also and did nothing but commit fraud. Hell, Republicans even elected a convicted fraud and felon in the White House. WW

Yep. Everyone just assumed that the career professionals had everything running perfectly. What Republican fraud?

It wasn't until Trump appointed Musk and the DOGE team to do a fresh audit did all of the obvious fraud become published. The question remains, was the fraud deliberate and partisan, or accidental and non-partisan?

As far as electing a fraud and a felon, voters know Lawfare when they see it, and they know obvious incompetence when they see Kamala and Joe.

 

[WorldWatcher]

OK, I can agree with that.
But it still doesn't explain why DOGE found so many 110+ recipients, and non-citizens, and others obviously not entitled to benefits. If I put my partisan tinfoil hat on and recall Lois Lerner's affinity for running the IRS in a very partisan way that perhaps a fresh non-partisan audit might find a lot of fraud. Just sayin'.

Because if you aren't getting what the chart in the OP is indicating. It IS NOT indicating how many 110+ people are recipients, it showing how many people in the system have the Death Flag set to FALSE, that in no way indicated how many people are receiving benefits.

The 2020 census put the number of centenarians at over 90,000. So that was 4 years ago, so there is some variance now 4 years later.

However the number of people ACTUALLY PAID benefits in December 2024 was 89,106. Those numbers are pretty damn freak'n close don't you think?

I'm NOT trying to say there is 0 death fraud, there are some cases, relatively few and far between. When discovered the individuals should be arrested and punished to the maximum extent possible.

What I am trying to point out is that Musk caused chaos by, either accidently or on purpose, implying that a data point (death flag) means something it didn't (receiving benefits).

Death Flag set FALSE != Receiving Benefits ("!=" is database speak for "Does Not Equal")

WW

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Retired worker beneficiaries distributed by age

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5156451-social-security-benefits-fraud/

 

[WorldWatcher]

With modern computer systems the states can easily share information of a death with all entities that have a legal interest in that death.

I agree, but will say in humor, "Easy" is a relative term not a quantitative term. Getting vitals statistics systems to talk to tax systems to talk to banks to talk to the SSA/HHS/State Department will not be "easy".

Can it be done? Yep.

Would it cost a lot of money? Yep

Would it take a long time? Yep

Would it result in a BETTER more EFFICIENT outcome in the long run? Ab-so-freak'n-lutley.

WW

 

[j-mac]

Especially if Trump returns $5000 of the government waste to taxpayers….while the Dems try to block it.

They're already 'all in' on defending the waste...

 

[Foxfyre]

I agree, but will say in humor, "Easy" is a relative term not a quantitative term. Getting vitals statistics systems to talk to tax systems to talk to banks to talk to the SSA/HHS/State Department will not be "easy".

Can it be done? Yep.

Would it cost a lot of money? Yep

Would it take a long time? Yep

Would it result in a BETTER more EFFICIENT outcome in the long run? Ab-so-freak'n-lutley.

WW

I'm pretty sure our DOGE team is or will be looking at that. They are horrified at the antiquated computer systems they are finding in government. The FAA is still using floppy disks! With all the waste and inefficiency they are finding in government we could have had the state of the art computer systems for a fraction of the money that has been wasted and/or stolen.

 

[kyzr]

Because if you aren't getting what the chart in the OP is indicating. It IS NOT indicating how many 110+ people are recipients, it showing how many people in the system have the Death Flag set to FALSE, that in no way indicated how many people are receiving benefits.

The 2020 census put the number of centenarians at over 90,000. So that was 4 years ago, so there is some variance now 4 years later.

However the number of people ACTUALLY PAID benefits in December 2024 was 89,106. Those numbers are pretty damn freak'n close don't you think?

I'm NOT trying to say there is 0 death fraud, there are some cases, relatively few and far between. When discovered the individuals should be arrested and punished to the maximum extent possible.

What I am trying to point out is that Musk caused chaos by, either accidently or on purpose, implying that a data point (death flag) means something it didn't (receiving benefits).
Death Flag set FALSE != Receiving Benefits ("!=" is database speak for "Does Not Equal") WW

True. But someone said that if the SS flag isn't set to dead other systems could be giving them some type of benefit.

That still doesn't mean that the SS database doesn't need a good cleaning.

The DOGE kids should clean it up and upgrade the computers making them modern and impervious.

I also want ALL government workers put on SS and their mine storage for pensions closed.

 

[j-mac]

Considering that...

(A) The House often flip's the party in control at mid-terms and it's at pretty close to an even 50/50 split.

(B) There are a lot of people getting fired for no reason.

(C) Government services will decrease.

(D) Unemployment will increase.

(E) Tariffs will increase inflation.

(F) With cuts to ED impacting funds for SPED Students, Poor School Districts, Student Loans, Pell Grants, etc.
.
.
.
.
There will not only be pain, there are going to be a lot of pissed off people.

So It's not that hard to imagine.

WW

I think it will be great to return Government to their Constitutional powers. Everything else is up to the State.

 

[j-mac]

As soon as someone says "So, you want..."

You know they next thing they say will be made a made up strawman.

WW

Is that how you operate?