why not make the minimum wage $30 an hour?

[suplex3000]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

 

[Slyhunter]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

 

[LOki]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

If you don't have a job, then you have plenty of free time to learn new skills.

If you have a job, then there's on the job training to provide you with those new skills... training that would be ever more affordable if all wages were based solely upon what the work was actually worth.

If someone's intelligence, talent, industriousness, or ambition limits their social contribution to work that is objectively worth only $2/hr, why is it that their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) is NOT limited as such?

And why it is morally valid to make that unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

I fail to understand why minimum wage chuckle-heads refuse to accept that wages should based solely upon what the work being done actually worth... that $0.00/hr should be on the table.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

who said anything about free time? To learn those skills No such thing as free time, you think about it, you eat it you breath it and after years of mastering it, it comes natural, then you can sit back and say I did it.

 

[kiwiman127]

why not make the minimum wage $30 an hour?

No sense in talking sense.

Is this why you never do?
Please, point out the problem with raising min wage to 30/hr. Go ahead.

It's way too much and the OP isn't serious in the first place. FYI, you were against raising it to $10.10. It was going to raise inflation and cause an increase in the unemployed! You were being an echo chamber for the right wing talking heads. Don't deny it.

Why is 30 "way too much" but 15 is OK? Or is 15 way too much too?

Well first of all I decided look where this $30 minimum wage thing came from. To no surprise, it's a right wing talking point.
Raising th minimum wage to $30:
"Intuitively, most everyone understands that raising the minimum wage to $20 or $30 an hour would have devastating effects on the employment prospects of less skilled workers: unemployment rates would skyrocket within such groups, so we see no serious proposals for increases of such magnitudes. Raising the minimum wage to only $10.10 would have much milder effects that might be difficult to detect in the aggregate – though such effects would still be noticed by employees who received raises or lost their jobs."
Ask an Economist Department of Economics
The above explanation basically covers why nots.
Now, the right likes to scream that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 would raise inflation and cause massive layoffs.
However, checking out historical facts one can see that facts don't back up that argument.
If one has the ambition, they can go to these sites which cover when historically the minimum wage was increased, the inflation rate (CPI) historically month-by-month and the historical unemployment rate month-by-month.
All a person has to do is match when the minimum wage went into effect and then match up the rise in the CPI and the unemployment rate. The conclusion is that there were no spikes in inflation or the unemployment rate.
Minimum Wage - Wage and Hour Division WHD - U.S. Department of Labor

Historical Consumer Price Index CPI

US Unemployment Rate by Month
The only time there was massive layoffs was during the Great Recession. Not one economist every blamed the increase in the minimum wage for the layoffs, plus inflation was completely flat and there was actually deflation.
Regarding your question about a $15 dollars minimum wage, if a city want to raise the minimum wage, it usually tied to the fact that the cost of living within a city is higher than it is in rural areas. That would be a judgement call for the city entity.
Also, I'd like to point out that increasing the minimum wage certainly does help the middle class per the Cato Institute.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor

 

[LOki]

why not make the minimum wage $30 an hour?

No sense in talking sense.

Is this why you never do?
Please, point out the problem with raising min wage to 30/hr. Go ahead.

It's way too much and the OP isn't serious in the first place. FYI, you were against raising it to $10.10. It was going to raise inflation and cause an increase in the unemployed! You were being an echo chamber for the right wing talking heads. Don't deny it.

Why is 30 "way too much" but 15 is OK? Or is 15 way too much too?

Well first of all I decided look where this $30 minimum wage thing came from. To no surprise, it's a right wing talking point.
Raising th minimum wage to $30:
"Intuitively, most everyone understands that raising the minimum wage to $20 or $30 an hour would have devastating effects on the employment prospects of less skilled workers: unemployment rates would skyrocket within such groups, so we see no serious proposals for increases of such magnitudes. Raising the minimum wage to only $10.10 would have much milder effects that might be difficult to detect in the aggregate – though such effects would still be noticed by employees who received raises or lost their jobs."
Ask an Economist Department of Economics
The above explanation basically covers why nots.
Now, the right likes to scream that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 would raise inflation and cause massive layoffs.
However, checking out historical facts one can see that facts don't back up that argument.
If one has the ambition, they can go to these sites which cover when historically the minimum wage was increased, the inflation rate (CPI) historically month-by-month and the historical unemployment rate month-by-month.
All a person has to do is match when the minimum wage went into effect and then match up the rise in the CPI and the unemployment rate. The conclusion is that there were no spikes in inflation or the unemployment rate.
Minimum Wage - Wage and Hour Division WHD - U.S. Department of Labor

Historical Consumer Price Index CPI

US Unemployment Rate by Month
The only time there was massive layoffs was during the Great Recession. Not one economist every blamed the increase in the minimum wage for the layoffs, plus inflation was completely flat and there was actually deflation.
Regarding your question about a $15 dollars minimum wage, if a city want to raise the minimum wage, it usually tied to the fact that the cost of living within a city is higher than it is in rural areas. That would be a judgement call for the city entity.
Also, I'd like to point out that increasing the minimum wage certainly does help the middle class per the Cato Institute.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor

Minimum wage laws cannot create jobs, they can ONLY outlaw them. Minimum wage laws demand that workers willing to accept wages less than the minimum wage are barred from such contracts. It is compulsory unemployment.

There is no escape from the objective fact of economic reality that minimum wage laws devalue wages. You simply cannot avoid devaluing wages when you make $1/hr work cost the same as $15/hr work.

Adding new dollars to the economy by increasing the minimum wage beyond what the work is worth is not the same thing as creating new wealth. Minimum wage laws always result in inflation. They necessarily must.

These realities are inescapable, and it is why minimum wage ponzi schemes ALWAYS fail.

If they were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

 

[Slyhunter]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

If you don't have a job, then you have plenty of free time to learn new skills.

If you have a job, then there's on the job training to provide you with those new skills... training that would be ever more affordable if all wages were based solely upon what the work was actually worth.

If someone's intelligence, talent, industriousness, or ambition limits their social contribution to work that is objectively worth only $2/hr, why is it that their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) is NOT limited as such?

And why it is morally valid to make that unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

I fail to understand why minimum wage chuckle-heads refuse to accept that wages should based solely upon what the work being done actually worth... that $0.00/hr should be on the table.

So if they arent worth a living wage they should starve to death? Assuming they dont turn to crime and cost us 40k a year to incarcerate them.

 

[Stephanie]

they know how to put the screws to the rest of you Small businesses. and their Government evidently agrees

snip;

L.A. labor leaders seek minimum wage exemption for firms with union workers
Peter Jamison, David Zahniser and Emily Alpert Reyes contact the reporters

Labor leaders want exemption from L.A. minimum wage law for companies with union workers
Labor leaders, who were among the strongest supporters of the citywide minimum wage increase approved last week by the Los Angeles City Council, are advocating last-minute changes to the law that could create an exemption for companies with unionized workforces.

all of it here:
L.A. labor leaders seek minimum wage exemption for firms with union workers - LA Times

 

[Stephanie]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

If you don't have a job, then you have plenty of free time to learn new skills.

If you have a job, then there's on the job training to provide you with those new skills... training that would be ever more affordable if all wages were based solely upon what the work was actually worth.

If someone's intelligence, talent, industriousness, or ambition limits their social contribution to work that is objectively worth only $2/hr, why is it that their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) is NOT limited as such?

And why it is morally valid to make that unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

I fail to understand why minimum wage chuckle-heads refuse to accept that wages should based solely upon what the work being done actually worth... that $0.00/hr should be on the table.

So if they arent worth a living wage they should starve to death? Assuming they dont turn to crime and cost us 40k a year to incarcerate them.

oh for crying out loud. you people and your DRAMATICS in order to get what you want from others to give you. go to a food bank, many around for you to use...or go get a SECOND job to take care of yourself

 

[The VOR]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

If you don't have a job, then you have plenty of free time to learn new skills.

If you have a job, then there's on the job training to provide you with those new skills... training that would be ever more affordable if all wages were based solely upon what the work was actually worth.

If someone's intelligence, talent, industriousness, or ambition limits their social contribution to work that is objectively worth only $2/hr, why is it that their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) is NOT limited as such?

And why it is morally valid to make that unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

I fail to understand why minimum wage chuckle-heads refuse to accept that wages should based solely upon what the work being done actually worth... that $0.00/hr should be on the table.

So if they arent worth a living wage they should starve to death? Assuming they dont turn to crime and cost us 40k a year to incarcerate them.

oh for crying out loud. you people and your DRAMATICS in order to get what you want from others to give you. go to a food bank, many around for you to use...or go get a SECOND job to take care of yourself

Aren't you the least bit embarrassed by your lack of education and stupidity?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

 

[kiwiman127]

why not make the minimum wage $30 an hour?

No sense in talking sense.

Is this why you never do?
Please, point out the problem with raising min wage to 30/hr. Go ahead.

It's way too much and the OP isn't serious in the first place. FYI, you were against raising it to $10.10. It was going to raise inflation and cause an increase in the unemployed! You were being an echo chamber for the right wing talking heads. Don't deny it.

Why is 30 "way too much" but 15 is OK? Or is 15 way too much too?

Well first of all I decided look where this $30 minimum wage thing came from. To no surprise, it's a right wing talking point.
Raising th minimum wage to $30:
"Intuitively, most everyone understands that raising the minimum wage to $20 or $30 an hour would have devastating effects on the employment prospects of less skilled workers: unemployment rates would skyrocket within such groups, so we see no serious proposals for increases of such magnitudes. Raising the minimum wage to only $10.10 would have much milder effects that might be difficult to detect in the aggregate – though such effects would still be noticed by employees who received raises or lost their jobs."
Ask an Economist Department of Economics
The above explanation basically covers why nots.
Now, the right likes to scream that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 would raise inflation and cause massive layoffs.
However, checking out historical facts one can see that facts don't back up that argument.
If one has the ambition, they can go to these sites which cover when historically the minimum wage was increased, the inflation rate (CPI) historically month-by-month and the historical unemployment rate month-by-month.
All a person has to do is match when the minimum wage went into effect and then match up the rise in the CPI and the unemployment rate. The conclusion is that there were no spikes in inflation or the unemployment rate.
Minimum Wage - Wage and Hour Division WHD - U.S. Department of Labor

Historical Consumer Price Index CPI

US Unemployment Rate by Month
The only time there was massive layoffs was during the Great Recession. Not one economist every blamed the increase in the minimum wage for the layoffs, plus inflation was completely flat and there was actually deflation.
Regarding your question about a $15 dollars minimum wage, if a city want to raise the minimum wage, it usually tied to the fact that the cost of living within a city is higher than it is in rural areas. That would be a judgement call for the city entity.
Also, I'd like to point out that increasing the minimum wage certainly does help the middle class per the Cato Institute.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor

Minimum wage laws cannot create jobs, they can ONLY outlaw them. Minimum wage laws demand that workers willing to accept wages less than the minimum wage are barred from such contracts. It is compulsory unemployment.

There is no escape from the objective fact of economic reality that minimum wage laws devalue wages. You simply cannot avoid devaluing wages when you make $1/hr work cost the same as $15/hr work.

Adding new dollars to the economy by increasing the minimum wage beyond what the work is worth is not the same thing as creating new wealth. Minimum wage laws always result in inflation. They necessarily must.

These realities are inescapable, and it is why minimum wage ponzi schemes ALWAYS fail.

If they were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

Did you check out the links I posted where you can actually see if raising the minimum wage is as devastating as you claim.
Don't be lazy, look at the real world facts.

 

[LOki]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

If you don't have a job, then you have plenty of free time to learn new skills.

If you have a job, then there's on the job training to provide you with those new skills... training that would be ever more affordable if all wages were based solely upon what the work was actually worth.

If someone's intelligence, talent, industriousness, or ambition limits their social contribution to work that is objectively worth only $2/hr, why is it that their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) is NOT limited as such?

And why it is morally valid to make that unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

I fail to understand why minimum wage chuckle-heads refuse to accept that wages should based solely upon what the work being done actually worth... that $0.00/hr should be on the table.

So if they arent worth a living wage they should starve to death?

That should be an option.

Assuming they dont turn to crime and cost us 40k a year to incarcerate them.

They're not some kind of endangered species... we shouldn't have to treat them like one.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

If you don't have a job, then you have plenty of free time to learn new skills.

If you have a job, then there's on the job training to provide you with those new skills... training that would be ever more affordable if all wages were based solely upon what the work was actually worth.

If someone's intelligence, talent, industriousness, or ambition limits their social contribution to work that is objectively worth only $2/hr, why is it that their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) is NOT limited as such?

And why it is morally valid to make that unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

I fail to understand why minimum wage chuckle-heads refuse to accept that wages should based solely upon what the work being done actually worth... that $0.00/hr should be on the table.

So if they arent worth a living wage they should starve to death? Assuming they dont turn to crime and cost us 40k a year to incarcerate them.

oh for crying out loud. you people and your DRAMATICS in order to get what you want from others to give you. go to a food bank, many around for you to use...or go get a SECOND job to take care of yourself

Aren't you the least bit embarrassed by your lack of education and stupidity?

Uhm, what does anything she said indicate a lack of education or stupidity? And note to self, you're the one that somehow makes that leap that anyone is advocating anyone starve to death,

 

[LOki]

Is this why you never do?
Please, point out the problem with raising min wage to 30/hr. Go ahead.

It's way too much and the OP isn't serious in the first place. FYI, you were against raising it to $10.10. It was going to raise inflation and cause an increase in the unemployed! You were being an echo chamber for the right wing talking heads. Don't deny it.

Why is 30 "way too much" but 15 is OK? Or is 15 way too much too?

Well first of all I decided look where this $30 minimum wage thing came from. To no surprise, it's a right wing talking point.
Raising th minimum wage to $30:
"Intuitively, most everyone understands that raising the minimum wage to $20 or $30 an hour would have devastating effects on the employment prospects of less skilled workers: unemployment rates would skyrocket within such groups, so we see no serious proposals for increases of such magnitudes. Raising the minimum wage to only $10.10 would have much milder effects that might be difficult to detect in the aggregate – though such effects would still be noticed by employees who received raises or lost their jobs."
Ask an Economist Department of Economics
The above explanation basically covers why nots.
Now, the right likes to scream that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 would raise inflation and cause massive layoffs.
However, checking out historical facts one can see that facts don't back up that argument.
If one has the ambition, they can go to these sites which cover when historically the minimum wage was increased, the inflation rate (CPI) historically month-by-month and the historical unemployment rate month-by-month.
All a person has to do is match when the minimum wage went into effect and then match up the rise in the CPI and the unemployment rate. The conclusion is that there were no spikes in inflation or the unemployment rate.
Minimum Wage - Wage and Hour Division WHD - U.S. Department of Labor

Historical Consumer Price Index CPI

US Unemployment Rate by Month
The only time there was massive layoffs was during the Great Recession. Not one economist every blamed the increase in the minimum wage for the layoffs, plus inflation was completely flat and there was actually deflation.
Regarding your question about a $15 dollars minimum wage, if a city want to raise the minimum wage, it usually tied to the fact that the cost of living within a city is higher than it is in rural areas. That would be a judgement call for the city entity.
Also, I'd like to point out that increasing the minimum wage certainly does help the middle class per the Cato Institute.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor

Minimum wage laws cannot create jobs, they can ONLY outlaw them. Minimum wage laws demand that workers willing to accept wages less than the minimum wage are barred from such contracts. It is compulsory unemployment.

There is no escape from the objective fact of economic reality that minimum wage laws devalue wages. You simply cannot avoid devaluing wages when you make $1/hr work cost the same as $15/hr work.

Adding new dollars to the economy by increasing the minimum wage beyond what the work is worth is not the same thing as creating new wealth. Minimum wage laws always result in inflation. They necessarily must.

These realities are inescapable, and it is why minimum wage ponzi schemes ALWAYS fail.

If they were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

Did you check out the links I posted where you can actually see if raising the minimum wage is as devastating as you claim.
Don't be lazy, look at the real world facts.

Yes, yes, yes,... you have links.

Yet, if these minimum wage laws were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

Seriously, what is your problem with paying folks exactly what their work is worth?

 

[hadit]

How big of a leap is it from the idea that every employer is obligated to pay every employee enough to maintain a first world lifestyle to the idea that society owes everyone that same lifestyle? IOW, why stop with employers? Welfare should pay enough for any person to raise a family and at least have the transportation to get down to the polls and vote democrat.

 

[Slyhunter]

The idea of minimum wage is absolutely stupid and useless. If somebody doesn't earn enough money an hour and his work doesn't deserve a penny it is his personal business. Work harder, learn new profession etc. I do not want to pay a lot for idlers' useless activity. That's making me crazy.

How do you learn new skills without a job that pays enough to pay the bills and leaves you with enough money and free time to learn those skills?

If you don't have a job, then you have plenty of free time to learn new skills.

If you have a job, then there's on the job training to provide you with those new skills... training that would be ever more affordable if all wages were based solely upon what the work was actually worth.

If someone's intelligence, talent, industriousness, or ambition limits their social contribution to work that is objectively worth only $2/hr, why is it that their claim on society for food, clothing, shelter, medical care, education, and pension (not to mention esteem, respect, affirmation and validation) is NOT limited as such?

And why it is morally valid to make that unlimited claim at (government) gunpoint?

I fail to understand why minimum wage chuckle-heads refuse to accept that wages should based solely upon what the work being done actually worth... that $0.00/hr should be on the table.

So if they arent worth a living wage they should starve to death? Assuming they dont turn to crime and cost us 40k a year to incarcerate them.

oh for crying out loud. you people and your DRAMATICS in order to get what you want from others to give you. go to a food bank, many around for you to use...or go get a SECOND job to take care of yourself

You are ignoring reality.

 

[kiwiman127]

]41746[/ATTACH]

It's way too much and the OP isn't serious in the first place. FYI, you were against raising it to $10.10. It was going to raise inflation and cause an increase in the unemployed! You were being an echo chamber for the right wing talking heads. Don't deny it.

Why is 30 "way too much" but 15 is OK? Or is 15 way too much too?

Well first of all I decided look where this $30 minimum wage thing came from. To no surprise, it's a right wing talking point.
Raising th minimum wage to $30:
"Intuitively, most everyone understands that raising the minimum wage to $20 or $30 an hour would have devastating effects on the employment prospects of less skilled workers: unemployment rates would skyrocket within such groups, so we see no serious proposals for increases of such magnitudes. Raising the minimum wage to only $10.10 would have much milder effects that might be difficult to detect in the aggregate – though such effects would still be noticed by employees who received raises or lost their jobs."
Ask an Economist Department of Economics
The above explanation basically covers why nots.
Now, the right likes to scream that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 would raise inflation and cause massive layoffs.
However, checking out historical facts one can see that facts don't back up that argument.
If one has the ambition, they can go to these sites which cover when historically the minimum wage was increased, the inflation rate (CPI) historically month-by-month and the historical unemployment rate month-by-month.
All a person has to do is match when the minimum wage went into effect and then match up the rise in the CPI and the unemployment rate. The conclusion is that there were no spikes in inflation or the unemployment rate.
Minimum Wage - Wage and Hour Division WHD - U.S. Department of Labor

Historical Consumer Price Index CPI

US Unemployment Rate by Month
The only time there was massive layoffs was during the Great Recession. Not one economist every blamed the increase in the minimum wage for the layoffs, plus inflation was completely flat and there was actually deflation.
Regarding your question about a $15 dollars minimum wage, if a city want to raise the minimum wage, it usually tied to the fact that the cost of living within a city is higher than it is in rural areas. That would be a judgement call for the city entity.
Also, I'd like to point out that increasing the minimum wage certainly does help the middle class per the Cato Institute.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor

Minimum wage laws cannot create jobs, they can ONLY outlaw them. Minimum wage laws demand that workers willing to accept wages less than the minimum wage are barred from such contracts. It is compulsory unemployment.

There is no escape from the objective fact of economic reality that minimum wage laws devalue wages. You simply cannot avoid devaluing wages when you make $1/hr work cost the same as $15/hr work.

Adding new dollars to the economy by increasing the minimum wage beyond what the work is worth is not the same thing as creating new wealth. Minimum wage laws always result in inflation. They necessarily must.

These realities are inescapable, and it is why minimum wage ponzi schemes ALWAYS fail.

If they were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

Did you check out the links I posted where you can actually see if raising the minimum wage is as devastating as you claim.
Don't be lazy, look at the real world facts.

Yes, yes, yes,... you have links.

Yet, if these minimum wage laws were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

Seriously, what is your problem with paying folks exactly what their work is worth?

As the links prove, when the minimum wage is increased there has never been a spike in inflation or unemployment.
Secondly, "Yet, if these minimum wage laws were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--ffolks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!" Did you ever think that inflation and unemployment increases happens without the increase in the minimum wage? And "folks like you", what's that supposed to mean? I have never worked while receiving the minimum wage, I have always been a salaried and paid quite a bit above the minimum wage.
However, I also know for a fact that wages for the working middle class and poor have been flat (in Real Dollars) for over three decades. Thus the income inequality and the demise of the middle class. With an economy driven by over 70& consumer spending, flat wages hurt the US consumer driven economy. The less expendable income, the less money to drive the consumer driven economy. This probably plays into the fact that our last three recessions have taken longer to recover than comparable and earlier recessions. The above graph makes my point.

 

[LOki]

View attachment 41746 ]41746[/ATTACH]

Why is 30 "way too much" but 15 is OK? Or is 15 way too much too?

Well first of all I decided look where this $30 minimum wage thing came from. To no surprise, it's a right wing talking point.
Raising th minimum wage to $30:
"Intuitively, most everyone understands that raising the minimum wage to $20 or $30 an hour would have devastating effects on the employment prospects of less skilled workers: unemployment rates would skyrocket within such groups, so we see no serious proposals for increases of such magnitudes. Raising the minimum wage to only $10.10 would have much milder effects that might be difficult to detect in the aggregate – though such effects would still be noticed by employees who received raises or lost their jobs."
Ask an Economist Department of Economics
The above explanation basically covers why nots.
Now, the right likes to scream that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 would raise inflation and cause massive layoffs.
However, checking out historical facts one can see that facts don't back up that argument.
If one has the ambition, they can go to these sites which cover when historically the minimum wage was increased, the inflation rate (CPI) historically month-by-month and the historical unemployment rate month-by-month.
All a person has to do is match when the minimum wage went into effect and then match up the rise in the CPI and the unemployment rate. The conclusion is that there were no spikes in inflation or the unemployment rate.
Minimum Wage - Wage and Hour Division WHD - U.S. Department of Labor

Historical Consumer Price Index CPI

US Unemployment Rate by Month
The only time there was massive layoffs was during the Great Recession. Not one economist every blamed the increase in the minimum wage for the layoffs, plus inflation was completely flat and there was actually deflation.
Regarding your question about a $15 dollars minimum wage, if a city want to raise the minimum wage, it usually tied to the fact that the cost of living within a city is higher than it is in rural areas. That would be a judgement call for the city entity.
Also, I'd like to point out that increasing the minimum wage certainly does help the middle class per the Cato Institute.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor

Minimum wage laws cannot create jobs, they can ONLY outlaw them. Minimum wage laws demand that workers willing to accept wages less than the minimum wage are barred from such contracts. It is compulsory unemployment.

There is no escape from the objective fact of economic reality that minimum wage laws devalue wages. You simply cannot avoid devaluing wages when you make $1/hr work cost the same as $15/hr work.

Adding new dollars to the economy by increasing the minimum wage beyond what the work is worth is not the same thing as creating new wealth. Minimum wage laws always result in inflation. They necessarily must.

These realities are inescapable, and it is why minimum wage ponzi schemes ALWAYS fail.

If they were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

Did you check out the links I posted where you can actually see if raising the minimum wage is as devastating as you claim.
Don't be lazy, look at the real world facts.

Yes, yes, yes,... you have links.

Yet, if these minimum wage laws were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

Seriously, what is your problem with paying folks exactly what their work is worth?

As the links prove, when the minimum wage is increased there has never been a spike in inflation or unemployment.

So there was no "spike"? Why must there be a "spike" when minimum wages are applied gradually? Does your link demonstrate that there was no inflation while minimum wage rates were increasing?

Secondly, "Yet, if these minimum wage laws were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--ffolks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!" Did you ever think that inflation and unemployment increases happens without the increase in the minimum wage?

Sure. Other price fixing and money printing ponzi schemes have the same effect... for the same reasons.

What could your point possibly be? That minimum wage is somehow magically exempt from the well established principles of economics?

And "folks like you", what's that supposed to mean?

Folks who advocate for a minimum wage. What else could it possibly mean?

I have never worked while receiving the minimum wage, I have always been a salaried and paid quite a bit above the minimum wage.

Thanks for sharing.

However, I also know for a fact that wages for the working middle class and poor have been flat (in Real Dollars) for over three decades.

And you're going to tell me that the OBVIOUS devaluing effect that minimum wage law must NECESSARILY have on wages has no role what-so-ever to play in that. Right?

Thus the income inequality and the demise of the middle class. With an economy driven by over 70& consumer spending, flat wages hurt the US consumer driven economy.

Well, maybe if work that was worth ony $1/hr (but still costs minimum wage) wasn't being subsidized by work worth more than minimum wage, perhaps wages would not be so persistently flat.

The less expendable income, the less money to drive the consumer driven economy. This probably plays into the fact that our last three recessions have taken longer to recover than comparable and earlier recessions.

Artificially devaluing the rewards for productive capacity (by artificially making $1.00/hr worth of work pay any amount more, say $15.00/hr, for instance) requires more money to be printed because buyers and sellers still know what shit is worth regardless of what the government says about the dollars. Printing more money, without also increasing productivity must lead inevitably to inflation. It does so because there is just more money around--printing new money is not the same thing as creating new wealth.

Introducing all that new money into the economy will not make every citizen more wealthy--they will just have more money. Having more money is of little consolation when it takes twice your daily wages to get a day's worth of food.

The above graph makes my point.

No. It really doesn't. It would make your point, if you were telling me we DON'T need to increase the minimum wage (yet again) because it has a history of being so effective.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

View attachment 41746 ]41746[/ATTACH]

Well first of all I decided look where this $30 minimum wage thing came from. To no surprise, it's a right wing talking point.
Raising th minimum wage to $30:
"Intuitively, most everyone understands that raising the minimum wage to $20 or $30 an hour would have devastating effects on the employment prospects of less skilled workers: unemployment rates would skyrocket within such groups, so we see no serious proposals for increases of such magnitudes. Raising the minimum wage to only $10.10 would have much milder effects that might be difficult to detect in the aggregate – though such effects would still be noticed by employees who received raises or lost their jobs."
Ask an Economist Department of Economics
The above explanation basically covers why nots.
Now, the right likes to scream that raising the minimum wage to $10.10 would raise inflation and cause massive layoffs.
However, checking out historical facts one can see that facts don't back up that argument.
If one has the ambition, they can go to these sites which cover when historically the minimum wage was increased, the inflation rate (CPI) historically month-by-month and the historical unemployment rate month-by-month.
All a person has to do is match when the minimum wage went into effect and then match up the rise in the CPI and the unemployment rate. The conclusion is that there were no spikes in inflation or the unemployment rate.
Minimum Wage - Wage and Hour Division WHD - U.S. Department of Labor

Historical Consumer Price Index CPI

US Unemployment Rate by Month
The only time there was massive layoffs was during the Great Recession. Not one economist every blamed the increase in the minimum wage for the layoffs, plus inflation was completely flat and there was actually deflation.
Regarding your question about a $15 dollars minimum wage, if a city want to raise the minimum wage, it usually tied to the fact that the cost of living within a city is higher than it is in rural areas. That would be a judgement call for the city entity.
Also, I'd like to point out that increasing the minimum wage certainly does help the middle class per the Cato Institute.
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor
Minimum Wage Hike Would Benefit 3X More Middle-Class Workers Than Poor

Minimum wage laws cannot create jobs, they can ONLY outlaw them. Minimum wage laws demand that workers willing to accept wages less than the minimum wage are barred from such contracts. It is compulsory unemployment.

There is no escape from the objective fact of economic reality that minimum wage laws devalue wages. You simply cannot avoid devaluing wages when you make $1/hr work cost the same as $15/hr work.

Adding new dollars to the economy by increasing the minimum wage beyond what the work is worth is not the same thing as creating new wealth. Minimum wage laws always result in inflation. They necessarily must.

These realities are inescapable, and it is why minimum wage ponzi schemes ALWAYS fail.

If they were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

Did you check out the links I posted where you can actually see if raising the minimum wage is as devastating as you claim.
Don't be lazy, look at the real world facts.

Yes, yes, yes,... you have links.

Yet, if these minimum wage laws were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--folks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!

Seriously, what is your problem with paying folks exactly what their work is worth?

As the links prove, when the minimum wage is increased there has never been a spike in inflation or unemployment.

So there was no "spike"? Why must there be a "spike" when minimum wages are applied gradually? Does your link demonstrate that there was no inflation while minimum wage rates were increasing?

Secondly, "Yet, if these minimum wage laws were not always failures--if they did not always result in unemployment and inflation--ffolks like you would not always be demanding that the minimum wage be increased yet again!" Did you ever think that inflation and unemployment increases happens without the increase in the minimum wage?

Sure. Other price fixing and money printing ponzi schemes have the same effect... for the same reasons.

What could your point possibly be? That minimum wage is somehow magically exempt from the well established principles of economics?

And "folks like you", what's that supposed to mean?

Folks who advocate for a minimum wage. What else could it possibly mean?

I have never worked while receiving the minimum wage, I have always been a salaried and paid quite a bit above the minimum wage.

Thanks for sharing.

However, I also know for a fact that wages for the working middle class and poor have been flat (in Real Dollars) for over three decades.

And you're going to tell me that the OBVIOUS devaluing effect that minimum wage law must NECESSARILY have on wages has no role what-so-ever to play in that. Right?

Thus the income inequality and the demise of the middle class. With an economy driven by over 70& consumer spending, flat wages hurt the US consumer driven economy.

Well, maybe if work that was worth ony $1/hr (but still costs minimum wage) wasn't being subsidized by work worth more than minimum wage, perhaps wages would not be so persistently flat.

The less expendable income, the less money to drive the consumer driven economy. This probably plays into the fact that our last three recessions have taken longer to recover than comparable and earlier recessions.

Artificially devaluing the rewards for productive capacity (by artificially making $1.00/hr worth of work pay any amount more, say $15.00/hr, for instance) requires more money to be printed because buyers and sellers still know what shit is worth regardless of what the government says about the dollars. Printing more money, without also increasing productivity must lead inevitably to inflation. It does so because there is just more money around--printing new money is not the same thing as creating new wealth.

Introducing all that new money into the economy will not make every citizen more wealthy--they will just have more money. Having more money is of little consolation when it takes twice your daily wages to get a day's worth of food.

The above graph makes my point.

No. It really doesn't. It would make your point, if you were telling me we DON'T need to increase the minimum wage (yet again) because it has a history of being so effective.

Why don't you tell me why you object so strenuously at the notion that a worker's wages should be based solely upon what that worker's work is worth?[/QUOTE]

Simply put... accountability.