Why Islam Is More Violent Than Christianity

[RandomVariable]

Damn. Muslims crash planes into Manhattan and the Pentagon. But then, they say that doesn't represent all Muslims. I don't care any more. It says enough about immigrants, it says plenty. My great grandparents immigrated here legally. They didn't use ploy's to gain sympathy . They didn't sympathize with terrorist or illegal immigrants, either. Funny how that works.

And we bomb them with high tech drones.

No. We bomb "terrorists" with high tech drones. Which does little but give Muslims fuel for their fire. Kind of makes one wonder about that program now doesn't it?

 

[MaryL]

Winston Churchill feared the wrath of foreign intrigue, but Enoch Powel's "rivers of blood" speech, showed foresight. Damn. England is being flooded by people that hate or don't understand English culture. Wow, aren't we great as educated culture to let an other inferior superstitious culture infiltrate us and destroy us from within? Muslims shed blood on English streets, blood flows. Muslims crash planes into Manhattan, that is what they DO.

 

[Agit8r]

The Troubles - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Let's get you clearly on record.

You contend that:
Lord s Resistance Army - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
and
The Troubles - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

...indicate that Islam is not more violent than Christianity.



You need to get out of your folks basement more frequently.

 

[Bfgrn]

Glad to see you admit that Christianity is violent PC.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Glad to see you admit that Christianity is violent PC.

I am, you little weasel.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

OMG!

How long must I endure the apologists, the secular liars, trying to compare the horrific murderers and savages, the Islamists, to other groups, usually Christians?


When will Liberals run out of lies?



Tracinski does his usual masterful job in explaining the .....dichotomy.



1. "The Charlie Hebdo massacre once again has politicians and the media dancing around the question of whether there might be something a little bit special about this one particular religion, Islam, that causes its adherents to go around killing people.

2. It is not considered acceptable in polite company to entertain this possibility. Instead, it is necessary to insist, as a New York Times article does, that “Islam is no more inherently violent than other religions.”

3. .... all major religions have had violent periods, or periods in which the religion has coexisted with violence. Even those mellow pacifist Buddhists. ...

.... But in today’s context, it’s absurd to equate Islam and Christianity.

4. Pointing to the Spanish Inquisition tends to undermine the point rather than confirm it: if you have to look back three hundred years to find atrocities, it’s because there are so few of them today. The mass crimes committed under the name of Islam, by contrast, are fresh and openly boasted about.





5. As an atheist, I have no god in this fight, so to speak. I don’t think the differences between religions make one more valid than another. But as the Charlie Hedbo attack reminds us, there is a big practical difference between them.

6..... the best argument against the equivalence of Christianity and Islam is that no one acts even remotely as if this were true. We feel free to criticize and offend Christians without a second thought....but antagonizing Muslims takes courage.
More courage than a lot of secular types in the West can usually muster.





7. What are its root causes?

... the main danger posed by any religion to its dissenters and unbelievers lies in the rejection of reason, which cuts off the possibility of discussion and debate, leaving coercion as an acceptable substitute.... But all religions are different and have different doctrines which are shaped over their history—and as we shall see, that includes different views on precisely such core issues as the role of reason and persuasion.

8.....there are a number of big, widely documented differences between Christianity and Islam that can be seen in the traditions established by their history and in the actual content of their religious doctrines.


9. The life of Christ versus the life of Mohammed.
Mohammed was a conqueror who gained worldly political power in his lifetime and used it to persecute opponents and impose his religion. He also fully enjoyed the worldly perks of being a tyrant, including multiple wives.

Jesus, by contrast, was basically a pacifist whose whole purpose on earth was to allow himself to be tortured to death.

10. He even explicitly forbade his followers to use force to defend him. Here’s John,Chapter 18: “Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear…. Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?”
Why Islam Is More Violent Than Christianity

Note how when non-Muslims wish to condemn Islam for its violence they use a specific attack where perhaps dozens died. But ignore the national scale wars when hundreds of thousands die to their own faith.

Christianity is FAR more destructive and violent than Islam. They kill millions around the world in wars of conquest and aggression. Whereas to resist that, their Muslim victims try little pin pricks by comparison killing a very few winning nothing more than symbollic victories.

 

[PoliticalChic]

OMG!

How long must I endure the apologists, the secular liars, trying to compare the horrific murderers and savages, the Islamists, to other groups, usually Christians?


When will Liberals run out of lies?



Tracinski does his usual masterful job in explaining the .....dichotomy.



1. "The Charlie Hebdo massacre once again has politicians and the media dancing around the question of whether there might be something a little bit special about this one particular religion, Islam, that causes its adherents to go around killing people.

2. It is not considered acceptable in polite company to entertain this possibility. Instead, it is necessary to insist, as a New York Times article does, that “Islam is no more inherently violent than other religions.”

3. .... all major religions have had violent periods, or periods in which the religion has coexisted with violence. Even those mellow pacifist Buddhists. ...

.... But in today’s context, it’s absurd to equate Islam and Christianity.

4. Pointing to the Spanish Inquisition tends to undermine the point rather than confirm it: if you have to look back three hundred years to find atrocities, it’s because there are so few of them today. The mass crimes committed under the name of Islam, by contrast, are fresh and openly boasted about.





5. As an atheist, I have no god in this fight, so to speak. I don’t think the differences between religions make one more valid than another. But as the Charlie Hedbo attack reminds us, there is a big practical difference between them.

6..... the best argument against the equivalence of Christianity and Islam is that no one acts even remotely as if this were true. We feel free to criticize and offend Christians without a second thought....but antagonizing Muslims takes courage.
More courage than a lot of secular types in the West can usually muster.





7. What are its root causes?

... the main danger posed by any religion to its dissenters and unbelievers lies in the rejection of reason, which cuts off the possibility of discussion and debate, leaving coercion as an acceptable substitute.... But all religions are different and have different doctrines which are shaped over their history—and as we shall see, that includes different views on precisely such core issues as the role of reason and persuasion.

8.....there are a number of big, widely documented differences between Christianity and Islam that can be seen in the traditions established by their history and in the actual content of their religious doctrines.


9. The life of Christ versus the life of Mohammed.
Mohammed was a conqueror who gained worldly political power in his lifetime and used it to persecute opponents and impose his religion. He also fully enjoyed the worldly perks of being a tyrant, including multiple wives.

Jesus, by contrast, was basically a pacifist whose whole purpose on earth was to allow himself to be tortured to death.

10. He even explicitly forbade his followers to use force to defend him. Here’s John,Chapter 18: “Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear…. Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?”
Why Islam Is More Violent Than Christianity

Note how when non-Muslims wish to condemn Islam for its violence they use a specific attack where perhaps dozens died. But ignore the national scale wars when hundreds of thousands die to their own faith.

Christianity is FAR more destructive and violent than Islam. They kill millions around the world in wars of conquest and aggression. Whereas to resist that, their Muslim victims try little pin pricks by comparison killing a very few winning nothing more than symbollic victories.

There seems to be a universal agreement that you aren't capable of learning....

....let's test this view with a review Tracinski's thesis explaining "Why Islam Is More Violent Than Christianity"

a. .....the best argument against the equivalence of Christianity and Islam is that no one acts even remotely as if this were true.

b. ... in the rejection of reason, which cuts off the possibility of discussion and debate, leaving coercion as an acceptable substitute....this is the basis of 'submission,' Islam

c. Mohammed was a conqueror who gained worldly political power in his lifetime and used it to persecute opponents and impose his religion.

d..... the life of Christ tells the Christian he should expect to sacrifice and serve.

e. Islam is based on the superiority of brute force or self-interest in the struggle for survival." It is also known as jungle law." In Islam we find sanctioning slavery, including the capture and systematic rape of sex slaves. This is a religion that is still very much in the “rights of the conqueror” mode, in which the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."

f., Christ was the first to insist that even the lowest, least significant person has value and that we will be judged by how we treat him."

g. "Christians started as a persecuted minority in a pagan society, so that gives them a certain comfort with being powerless.... The early history of Islam, by contrast, was further conquest and dominance.


Did you take notes?

 

[RandomVariable]

Islam is a plague. These actions are the actions of true Muslims. There is not such thing as an 'extremist' Muslim.

At least 16 dead as bomb rips through Karachi Shiite mosque - Israel News Haaretz
A top Pakistani official says the bombing that ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in Karachi, killing at least 16 people and wounding 38 during evening prayers, could have been revenge for the assassination of a senior Sunni cleric.
...
"One 3-year old child was bleeding from the head and stomach," he said. "I carried the boy out and a car took him to hospital."​

 

[RandomVariable]

People who did this and helped with this think they are going to heaven. Maybe the Islam heaven. Islam is a religion of violence, everyone, everywhere.

Bomb at Shi ite mosque kills 45 in Pakistan Reuters
(Reuters) - A suspected suicide bomber attacked Shi'ite Muslims as they were leaving a mosque in Pakistan's commercial capital on Sunday, killing at least 45 people, in another signal Sunni militants are escalating sectarian attacks.

"It's like doomsday to me. I was watching television when I heard an explosion and my flat was badly shaken," said Mariam Bibi.

"I saw people burning to death and crying with pain. I saw children lying in pools of their own blood and women running around shouting for their children and loved ones."

Senior city official Hashim Raza said at least 45 people had been killed and 149 wounded in the blast in Pakistan's biggest city.
​

 

[PoliticalChic]

Islam is a plague. These actions are the actions of true Muslims. There is not such thing as an 'extremist' Muslim.

At least 16 dead as bomb rips through Karachi Shiite mosque - Israel News Haaretz
A top Pakistani official says the bombing that ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in Karachi, killing at least 16 people and wounding 38 during evening prayers, could have been revenge for the assassination of a senior Sunni cleric.
...
"One 3-year old child was bleeding from the head and stomach," he said. "I carried the boy out and a car took him to hospital."​

I find "plague" a tad excessive.

No, Islam must be brought into the 21st century....and this, from post #76, is the way:

"In a widely praised January 1 speech, Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi visited Al-Azhar University to address the country’s religious leadership, saying the time had come to reform Islam.
He complained that wrong ideas, which he did not specify, have become sacralized and that the religious leadership dares not criticize them. But Sisi did criticize, and in a colloquial Arabic highly unusual for discussing such topics: “It is inconceivable that the wrong ideas that we sacralize should make the entire umma [Muslim community] a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction for the whole world.

Nonetheless, that is precisely what has occurred...."
Sisi and the Reform of Islam National Review Online


Sisi is one of my new BFF's

 

[RandomVariable]

Islam is a plague. These actions are the actions of true Muslims. There is not such thing as an 'extremist' Muslim.

At least 16 dead as bomb rips through Karachi Shiite mosque - Israel News Haaretz
A top Pakistani official says the bombing that ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in Karachi, killing at least 16 people and wounding 38 during evening prayers, could have been revenge for the assassination of a senior Sunni cleric.
...
"One 3-year old child was bleeding from the head and stomach," he said. "I carried the boy out and a car took him to hospital."​

I find "plague" a tad excessive.

No, Islam must be brought into the 21st century....and this, from post #76, is the way:

"In a widely praised January 1 speech, Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi visited Al-Azhar University to address the country’s religious leadership, saying the time had come to reform Islam.
He complained that wrong ideas, which he did not specify, have become sacralized and that the religious leadership dares not criticize them. But Sisi did criticize, and in a colloquial Arabic highly unusual for discussing such topics: “It is inconceivable that the wrong ideas that we sacralize should make the entire umma [Muslim community] a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction for the whole world.

Nonetheless, that is precisely what has occurred...."
Sisi and the Reform of Islam National Review Online


Sisi is one of my new BFF's

You have any thoughts on what "reform Islam" means?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Islam is a plague. These actions are the actions of true Muslims. There is not such thing as an 'extremist' Muslim.

At least 16 dead as bomb rips through Karachi Shiite mosque - Israel News Haaretz
A top Pakistani official says the bombing that ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in Karachi, killing at least 16 people and wounding 38 during evening prayers, could have been revenge for the assassination of a senior Sunni cleric.
...
"One 3-year old child was bleeding from the head and stomach," he said. "I carried the boy out and a car took him to hospital."​

I find "plague" a tad excessive.

No, Islam must be brought into the 21st century....and this, from post #76, is the way:

"In a widely praised January 1 speech, Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi visited Al-Azhar University to address the country’s religious leadership, saying the time had come to reform Islam.
He complained that wrong ideas, which he did not specify, have become sacralized and that the religious leadership dares not criticize them. But Sisi did criticize, and in a colloquial Arabic highly unusual for discussing such topics: “It is inconceivable that the wrong ideas that we sacralize should make the entire umma [Muslim community] a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction for the whole world.

Nonetheless, that is precisely what has occurred...."
Sisi and the Reform of Islam National Review Online


Sisi is one of my new BFF's

You have any thoughts on what "reform Islam" means?

Step #1....Saudi's must top installing Wahhabi imams in every madrassa and mosque in the world.

a. The concept of 'abrogation' must be withdrawn so that earlier suras hold sway.

" There are 124 verses of tolerance. But those are rendered meaningless by the rule of "abrogation. This rule is the hermeneutic key that Islamic scholars use to resolve contradictions found in the Koran. Koranic passages are abrogated, cancelled, by any subsequently revealed passages that convey a different meaning. In other words, when their is a contradiction, e.g., 'don't kill infidels', vs. 'kill infidels,' whichever was 'revealed' to the prophet Mohammed more recently is the one that takes priority."
West, "American Betrayal," p.12

 

[PoliticalChic]

18. "Christians started as a persecuted minority in a pagan society....In Christianity, this produced a distinction between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of man. ....
Jesus: “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”


This idea is extensively developed in Christian theology and is widely accepted among religious conservatives today as the main explanation for the failure of Communism and other utopian schemes: they were arrogant, misguided attempts to achieve heaven on earth. .... this is referred to as trying to “immanentize the eschaton.”


The idea is that human beings are not capable of achieving the ultimate holy order of things in this world, so it is folly to try.
[This view is memorialized in the United States Constitution.]



But when your prophet is the dictator, it’s more tempting to think that you can just mandate a perfect society.
Hence the Islamist obsession with creating a pure Islamic State, usually with a special division of zealots who call themselves something like the Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice, whose job is to enforce a long list of intrusive religious prohibitions. An Islamic state is the kingdom of God brought to earth—exactly the approach that has been widely rejected at various points in Christian theology."
Why Islam Is More Violent Than Christianity

 

[RandomVariable]

Islam is a plague. These actions are the actions of true Muslims. There is not such thing as an 'extremist' Muslim.

At least 16 dead as bomb rips through Karachi Shiite mosque - Israel News Haaretz
A top Pakistani official says the bombing that ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in Karachi, killing at least 16 people and wounding 38 during evening prayers, could have been revenge for the assassination of a senior Sunni cleric.
...
"One 3-year old child was bleeding from the head and stomach," he said. "I carried the boy out and a car took him to hospital."​

I find "plague" a tad excessive.

No, Islam must be brought into the 21st century....and this, from post #76, is the way:

"In a widely praised January 1 speech, Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi visited Al-Azhar University to address the country’s religious leadership, saying the time had come to reform Islam.
He complained that wrong ideas, which he did not specify, have become sacralized and that the religious leadership dares not criticize them. But Sisi did criticize, and in a colloquial Arabic highly unusual for discussing such topics: “It is inconceivable that the wrong ideas that we sacralize should make the entire umma [Muslim community] a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction for the whole world.

Nonetheless, that is precisely what has occurred...."
Sisi and the Reform of Islam National Review Online


Sisi is one of my new BFF's

You have any thoughts on what "reform Islam" means?

Step #1....Saudi's must top installing Wahhabi imams in every madrassa and mosque in the world.

a. The concept of 'abrogation' must be withdrawn so that earlier suras hold sway.

" There are 124 verses of tolerance. But those are rendered meaningless by the rule of "abrogation. This rule is the hermeneutic key that Islamic scholars use to resolve contradictions found in the Koran. Koranic passages are abrogated, cancelled, by any subsequently revealed passages that convey a different meaning. In other words, when their is a contradiction, e.g., 'don't kill infidels', vs. 'kill infidels,' whichever was 'revealed' to the prophet Mohammed more recently is the one that takes priority."
West, "American Betrayal," p.12

But that is exactly what Islam does. Ask a Californian Muslim at Starbucks and he says our koran says, "don't kill infidels". Ask a Syrian Muslim on the street in Idlib and he says our koran says, "kill infidels". Both are right and in their situation both are applying the koran as it is meant to be applied. The problem is that the according to Islam the Muslim in Idlib is probably going to heaven while the one in California is probably not. It is the duty of Muslims everywhere to make the world more and more like Syria and Iraq, where true Muslims live.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Islam is a plague. These actions are the actions of true Muslims. There is not such thing as an 'extremist' Muslim.

At least 16 dead as bomb rips through Karachi Shiite mosque - Israel News Haaretz
A top Pakistani official says the bombing that ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in Karachi, killing at least 16 people and wounding 38 during evening prayers, could have been revenge for the assassination of a senior Sunni cleric.
...
"One 3-year old child was bleeding from the head and stomach," he said. "I carried the boy out and a car took him to hospital."​

I find "plague" a tad excessive.

No, Islam must be brought into the 21st century....and this, from post #76, is the way:

"In a widely praised January 1 speech, Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi visited Al-Azhar University to address the country’s religious leadership, saying the time had come to reform Islam.
He complained that wrong ideas, which he did not specify, have become sacralized and that the religious leadership dares not criticize them. But Sisi did criticize, and in a colloquial Arabic highly unusual for discussing such topics: “It is inconceivable that the wrong ideas that we sacralize should make the entire umma [Muslim community] a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction for the whole world.

Nonetheless, that is precisely what has occurred...."
Sisi and the Reform of Islam National Review Online


Sisi is one of my new BFF's

You have any thoughts on what "reform Islam" means?

Step #1....Saudi's must top installing Wahhabi imams in every madrassa and mosque in the world.

a. The concept of 'abrogation' must be withdrawn so that earlier suras hold sway.

" There are 124 verses of tolerance. But those are rendered meaningless by the rule of "abrogation. This rule is the hermeneutic key that Islamic scholars use to resolve contradictions found in the Koran. Koranic passages are abrogated, cancelled, by any subsequently revealed passages that convey a different meaning. In other words, when their is a contradiction, e.g., 'don't kill infidels', vs. 'kill infidels,' whichever was 'revealed' to the prophet Mohammed more recently is the one that takes priority."
West, "American Betrayal," p.12

But that is exactly what Islam does. Ask a Californian Muslim at Starbucks and he says our koran says, "don't kill infidels". Ask a Syrian Muslim on the street in Idlib and he says our koran says, "kill infidels". Both are right and in their situation both are applying the koran as it is meant to be applied. The problem is that the according to Islam the Muslim in Idlib is probably going to heaven while the one in California is probably not. It is the duty of Muslims everywhere to make the world more and more like Syria and Iraq, where true Muslims live.

No, they are not both telling the truth.
The first one understands both abrogation and the use of taquyya, lying to infidels, the second one is following Wahhabism, and admitting it.

Perhaps I should have said that the first step is to get rid of lying pols like Obama who won't allow the enemy to be identified.

Perhaps we should have the Supreme Court revisit
The Brandenburg test (also known as the imminent lawless action test)....
The three distinct elements of this test (intent, imminence, and likelihood) have distinct precedential lineages.


"The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

 

[RandomVariable]

Islam is a plague. These actions are the actions of true Muslims. There is not such thing as an 'extremist' Muslim.

At least 16 dead as bomb rips through Karachi Shiite mosque - Israel News Haaretz
A top Pakistani official says the bombing that ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in Karachi, killing at least 16 people and wounding 38 during evening prayers, could have been revenge for the assassination of a senior Sunni cleric.
...
"One 3-year old child was bleeding from the head and stomach," he said. "I carried the boy out and a car took him to hospital."​

I find "plague" a tad excessive.

No, Islam must be brought into the 21st century....and this, from post #76, is the way:

"In a widely praised January 1 speech, Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi visited Al-Azhar University to address the country’s religious leadership, saying the time had come to reform Islam.
He complained that wrong ideas, which he did not specify, have become sacralized and that the religious leadership dares not criticize them. But Sisi did criticize, and in a colloquial Arabic highly unusual for discussing such topics: “It is inconceivable that the wrong ideas that we sacralize should make the entire umma [Muslim community] a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction for the whole world.

Nonetheless, that is precisely what has occurred...."
Sisi and the Reform of Islam National Review Online


Sisi is one of my new BFF's

You have any thoughts on what "reform Islam" means?

Step #1....Saudi's must top installing Wahhabi imams in every madrassa and mosque in the world.

a. The concept of 'abrogation' must be withdrawn so that earlier suras hold sway.

" There are 124 verses of tolerance. But those are rendered meaningless by the rule of "abrogation. This rule is the hermeneutic key that Islamic scholars use to resolve contradictions found in the Koran. Koranic passages are abrogated, cancelled, by any subsequently revealed passages that convey a different meaning. In other words, when their is a contradiction, e.g., 'don't kill infidels', vs. 'kill infidels,' whichever was 'revealed' to the prophet Mohammed more recently is the one that takes priority."
West, "American Betrayal," p.12

But that is exactly what Islam does. Ask a Californian Muslim at Starbucks and he says our koran says, "don't kill infidels". Ask a Syrian Muslim on the street in Idlib and he says our koran says, "kill infidels". Both are right and in their situation both are applying the koran as it is meant to be applied. The problem is that the according to Islam the Muslim in Idlib is probably going to heaven while the one in California is probably not. It is the duty of Muslims everywhere to make the world more and more like Syria and Iraq, where true Muslims live.

No, they are not both telling the truth.
The first one understands both abrogation and the use of taquyya, lying to infidels, the second one is following Wahhabism, and admitting it.

Perhaps I should have said that the first step is to get rid of lying pols like Obama who won't allow the enemy to be identified.

Perhaps we should have the Supreme Court revisit
The Brandenburg test (also known as the imminent lawless action test)....
The three distinct elements of this test (intent, imminence, and likelihood) have distinct precedential lineages.


"The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

Is there not some place in the koran where it says, "do not kill infidels"? So this does not even provoke the taquyya privilege. (I am playing the Muslim game of 'we can't kill them just yet'.)

 

[PoliticalChic]

I find "plague" a tad excessive.

No, Islam must be brought into the 21st century....and this, from post #76, is the way:

"In a widely praised January 1 speech, Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi visited Al-Azhar University to address the country’s religious leadership, saying the time had come to reform Islam.
He complained that wrong ideas, which he did not specify, have become sacralized and that the religious leadership dares not criticize them. But Sisi did criticize, and in a colloquial Arabic highly unusual for discussing such topics: “It is inconceivable that the wrong ideas that we sacralize should make the entire umma [Muslim community] a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction for the whole world.

Nonetheless, that is precisely what has occurred...."
Sisi and the Reform of Islam National Review Online


Sisi is one of my new BFF's

You have any thoughts on what "reform Islam" means?

Step #1....Saudi's must top installing Wahhabi imams in every madrassa and mosque in the world.

a. The concept of 'abrogation' must be withdrawn so that earlier suras hold sway.

" There are 124 verses of tolerance. But those are rendered meaningless by the rule of "abrogation. This rule is the hermeneutic key that Islamic scholars use to resolve contradictions found in the Koran. Koranic passages are abrogated, cancelled, by any subsequently revealed passages that convey a different meaning. In other words, when their is a contradiction, e.g., 'don't kill infidels', vs. 'kill infidels,' whichever was 'revealed' to the prophet Mohammed more recently is the one that takes priority."
West, "American Betrayal," p.12

But that is exactly what Islam does. Ask a Californian Muslim at Starbucks and he says our koran says, "don't kill infidels". Ask a Syrian Muslim on the street in Idlib and he says our koran says, "kill infidels". Both are right and in their situation both are applying the koran as it is meant to be applied. The problem is that the according to Islam the Muslim in Idlib is probably going to heaven while the one in California is probably not. It is the duty of Muslims everywhere to make the world more and more like Syria and Iraq, where true Muslims live.

No, they are not both telling the truth.
The first one understands both abrogation and the use of taquyya, lying to infidels, the second one is following Wahhabism, and admitting it.

Perhaps I should have said that the first step is to get rid of lying pols like Obama who won't allow the enemy to be identified.

Perhaps we should have the Supreme Court revisit
The Brandenburg test (also known as the imminent lawless action test)....
The three distinct elements of this test (intent, imminence, and likelihood) have distinct precedential lineages.


"The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

Is there not some place in the koran where it says, "do not kill infidels"? So this does not even provoke the taquyya privilege. (I am playing the Muslim game of 'we can't kill them just yet'.)

a. This comes directly from Mohammad himself, in sura 2:106 " Whatever a Verse (revelation) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allâh is able to do all things?" http://www.qurantoday.com/BaqSec13.htm


b. In "What the Koran Really Says," Ibn Warraq explains concisely that the passages preaching tolerance are found in Meccan (early) suras, and the passages recommending killing, maiming, decapitating, the so-called Sword Verses, are Medinan (later). Thus, 'Tolerance' has been abrogated by intolerance.

 

[irosie91]

I find "plague" a tad excessive.

No, Islam must be brought into the 21st century....and this, from post #76, is the way:

"In a widely praised January 1 speech, Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi visited Al-Azhar University to address the country’s religious leadership, saying the time had come to reform Islam.
He complained that wrong ideas, which he did not specify, have become sacralized and that the religious leadership dares not criticize them. But Sisi did criticize, and in a colloquial Arabic highly unusual for discussing such topics: “It is inconceivable that the wrong ideas that we sacralize should make the entire umma [Muslim community] a source of concern, danger, killing, and destruction for the whole world.

Nonetheless, that is precisely what has occurred...."
Sisi and the Reform of Islam National Review Online


Sisi is one of my new BFF's

You have any thoughts on what "reform Islam" means?

Step #1....Saudi's must top installing Wahhabi imams in every madrassa and mosque in the world.

a. The concept of 'abrogation' must be withdrawn so that earlier suras hold sway.

" There are 124 verses of tolerance. But those are rendered meaningless by the rule of "abrogation. This rule is the hermeneutic key that Islamic scholars use to resolve contradictions found in the Koran. Koranic passages are abrogated, cancelled, by any subsequently revealed passages that convey a different meaning. In other words, when their is a contradiction, e.g., 'don't kill infidels', vs. 'kill infidels,' whichever was 'revealed' to the prophet Mohammed more recently is the one that takes priority."
West, "American Betrayal," p.12

But that is exactly what Islam does. Ask a Californian Muslim at Starbucks and he says our koran says, "don't kill infidels". Ask a Syrian Muslim on the street in Idlib and he says our koran says, "kill infidels". Both are right and in their situation both are applying the koran as it is meant to be applied. The problem is that the according to Islam the Muslim in Idlib is probably going to heaven while the one in California is probably not. It is the duty of Muslims everywhere to make the world more and more like Syria and Iraq, where true Muslims live.

No, they are not both telling the truth.
The first one understands both abrogation and the use of taquyya, lying to infidels, the second one is following Wahhabism, and admitting it.

Perhaps I should have said that the first step is to get rid of lying pols like Obama who won't allow the enemy to be identified.

Perhaps we should have the Supreme Court revisit
The Brandenburg test (also known as the imminent lawless action test)....
The three distinct elements of this test (intent, imminence, and likelihood) have distinct precedential lineages.


"The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

Is there not some place in the koran where it says, "do not kill infidels"? So this does not even provoke the taquyya privilege. (I am playing the Muslim game of 'we can't kill them just yet'.)

I read the Koran and do not recall a line anything like
"do not kill the infidels" My take on islam based on
that which muslims told me and that which I have observed
is their HUGE problem ----of that which they worship----
namely muhummad and the Koran. I have also read the OT and have learned about Judaism (I am a jew) from lots of
different jews with differing POV's including some of the
most adherent (hot shot chassidim) No matter how
adherent to Judaism a jew is----I have never encountered
any who worshipped moses or the bible. On the other hand---even non adherent muslims get all bent out of shape over
any comment that can be construed as disparaging to the
absolute divinity of muhummad and the Koran. -----don't
consider a joke-----or a quip

 

[PoliticalChic]

You have any thoughts on what "reform Islam" means?

Step #1....Saudi's must top installing Wahhabi imams in every madrassa and mosque in the world.

a. The concept of 'abrogation' must be withdrawn so that earlier suras hold sway.

" There are 124 verses of tolerance. But those are rendered meaningless by the rule of "abrogation. This rule is the hermeneutic key that Islamic scholars use to resolve contradictions found in the Koran. Koranic passages are abrogated, cancelled, by any subsequently revealed passages that convey a different meaning. In other words, when their is a contradiction, e.g., 'don't kill infidels', vs. 'kill infidels,' whichever was 'revealed' to the prophet Mohammed more recently is the one that takes priority."
West, "American Betrayal," p.12

But that is exactly what Islam does. Ask a Californian Muslim at Starbucks and he says our koran says, "don't kill infidels". Ask a Syrian Muslim on the street in Idlib and he says our koran says, "kill infidels". Both are right and in their situation both are applying the koran as it is meant to be applied. The problem is that the according to Islam the Muslim in Idlib is probably going to heaven while the one in California is probably not. It is the duty of Muslims everywhere to make the world more and more like Syria and Iraq, where true Muslims live.

No, they are not both telling the truth.
The first one understands both abrogation and the use of taquyya, lying to infidels, the second one is following Wahhabism, and admitting it.

Perhaps I should have said that the first step is to get rid of lying pols like Obama who won't allow the enemy to be identified.

Perhaps we should have the Supreme Court revisit
The Brandenburg test (also known as the imminent lawless action test)....
The three distinct elements of this test (intent, imminence, and likelihood) have distinct precedential lineages.


"The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

Is there not some place in the koran where it says, "do not kill infidels"? So this does not even provoke the taquyya privilege. (I am playing the Muslim game of 'we can't kill them just yet'.)

I read the Koran and do not recall a line anything like
"do not kill the infidels" My take on islam based on
that which muslims told me and that which I have observed
is their HUGE problem ----of that which they worship----
namely muhummad and the Koran. I have also read the OT and have learned about Judaism (I am a jew) from lots of
different jews with differing POV's including some of the
most adherent (hot shot chassidim) No matter how
adherent to Judaism a jew is----I have never encountered
any who worshipped moses or the bible. On the other hand---even non adherent muslims get all bent out of shape over
any comment that can be construed as disparaging to the
absolute divinity of muhummad and the Koran. -----don't
consider a joke-----or a quip

“…There is no compulsion in religion…” (Quran 2:256)

 

[irosie91]

Step #1....Saudi's must top installing Wahhabi imams in every madrassa and mosque in the world.

a. The concept of 'abrogation' must be withdrawn so that earlier suras hold sway.

" There are 124 verses of tolerance. But those are rendered meaningless by the rule of "abrogation. This rule is the hermeneutic key that Islamic scholars use to resolve contradictions found in the Koran. Koranic passages are abrogated, cancelled, by any subsequently revealed passages that convey a different meaning. In other words, when their is a contradiction, e.g., 'don't kill infidels', vs. 'kill infidels,' whichever was 'revealed' to the prophet Mohammed more recently is the one that takes priority."
West, "American Betrayal," p.12

But that is exactly what Islam does. Ask a Californian Muslim at Starbucks and he says our koran says, "don't kill infidels". Ask a Syrian Muslim on the street in Idlib and he says our koran says, "kill infidels". Both are right and in their situation both are applying the koran as it is meant to be applied. The problem is that the according to Islam the Muslim in Idlib is probably going to heaven while the one in California is probably not. It is the duty of Muslims everywhere to make the world more and more like Syria and Iraq, where true Muslims live.

No, they are not both telling the truth.
The first one understands both abrogation and the use of taquyya, lying to infidels, the second one is following Wahhabism, and admitting it.

Perhaps I should have said that the first step is to get rid of lying pols like Obama who won't allow the enemy to be identified.

Perhaps we should have the Supreme Court revisit
The Brandenburg test (also known as the imminent lawless action test)....
The three distinct elements of this test (intent, imminence, and likelihood) have distinct precedential lineages.


"The Constitution is not a suicide pact"

Is there not some place in the koran where it says, "do not kill infidels"? So this does not even provoke the taquyya privilege. (I am playing the Muslim game of 'we can't kill them just yet'.)

I read the Koran and do not recall a line anything like
"do not kill the infidels" My take on islam based on
that which muslims told me and that which I have observed
is their HUGE problem ----of that which they worship----
namely muhummad and the Koran. I have also read the OT and have learned about Judaism (I am a jew) from lots of
different jews with differing POV's including some of the
most adherent (hot shot chassidim) No matter how
adherent to Judaism a jew is----I have never encountered
any who worshipped moses or the bible. On the other hand---even non adherent muslims get all bent out of shape over
any comment that can be construed as disparaging to the
absolute divinity of muhummad and the Koran. -----don't
consider a joke-----or a quip

“…There is no compulsion in religion…” (Quran 2:256)

I have never understood that line in the Koran, in view
of the fact that -------islam is ALL COMPULSION.
I kinda define "do it or die" as ---'compulsion'. Maybe
it comes out differently in arabic