Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[Carl in Michigan]

The universe or our planet? Run this experiment on the other 1 billion solar systems in our galaxy and see if the results are the same. Then run it on each of the billion planets in each of the other billion galaxies of our universe.

Both. All. Life CANNOT exist without a Creator Too many variables that will end it before it begins

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Both. All. Life CANNOT exist without a Creator Too many variables that will end it before it begins

Sure it can.

Well that was easy.

 

[alang1216]

Both. All. Life CANNOT exist without a Creator Too many variables that will end it before it begins

You mean YOU cannot understand how life could exist without a Creator. I don't have that same limitation on knowledge and imagination.

 

[frigidweirdo]

All of us use subjective evidence and have no quarrel with it. Why quarrel with it when it comes to God? Also, have you looked into the findings within the Shroud of Turin or evidence surrounding the Eucharist? There is also Lourdes. Atheists don't want evidence. Even when it is available, they dismiss it as if it doesn't exist. That brings us back to the question, even when evidence is available, why is it so tough to believe in God?

What people do is accept. And I understand it.

I started talking politics, especially gun control, after the Columbine High School shooting.

I knew nothing. I had ideas of what things were, I "knew" guns were bad. But over time I found out that I was wrong on a lot of thing (not necessarily that guns are bad) because I had a preconceived idea of what things were. It took me years to figure out how to open my mind and see things from an objective point of view.

There's a reason why people in Christian countries become Christian and people in Muslim countries become Muslim. You could call it "indoctrination" or something else, but people grow up with those around them and copy what the adults do. Religion gets passed down.

People don't need evidence. They believe because they want to. Or not. And they call it "believing", which is accepting without knowing.

The Turin Shroud is nothing. It's a cloth, that has the image of a person on it.

We see images of faces EVERYWHERE.

The problem is the shroud is owned by the Catholic Church and no doubt all "scientific tests" are done by the Catholic Church. Nothing to suggest it's actually real.

What evidence has been dismissed by atheists? We could do the whole saints thing, which is pretty fun, looking at why some saint was found to have "performed a miracle", the standard for "performing a miracle" is super low. It's like doing a test and sneezing on the paper and getting top marks.

Let's look at the newest one, Carlos Acutis.

Apparently he cured pancreatic cancer. How? Well, he died, and some woman took her child to mass in Brazil. Acutis died in Italy. The mother prayed to God and used Acutis' name in her prayer. The son also kissed a "clothing relic" of Acutis.

What are the chances? Zero? Sounds like people who want to believe. Do we have any evidence about this kid? No. We have nothing. We're expected to believe that some kid had this illness and that suddenly he was cured.

This isn't evidence. It's just made up.

 

[JoeB131]

I know this is your theory, which I have refuted in the past. And yes, I am aware that some in the past saw the earth as a sphere and even held the belief the earth revolved around the sun long before Copernicus lived. This, despite common belief, which changed as knowledge and communication spread throughout the world. Hope you get over that fear of death. Phobias are no fun.

I don't have a fear of death. I'm actually surprised I lived this long.

I am certainly not so afraid of death I give some creep in a vestment power over my life.

You avoided my point entirely about Zeus vs. Yahweh. It's not that we "Know better now" (which is why I think you were desperately grasping for the Flat Earth analogy). It's that we've exchanged on imaginary sky pixie for another.

And this is the absurdity of it. Assuming your God, Yahweh, is genuinely the Supreme Being, and all those other gods are false - Zeus, Odin, Krishna, Amaterasu, heck even Allah (although one can argue he is just another version of Yahweh), then how is it that those false gods even existed?

At one time, Yahweh was only worshipped by one small tribe, and early on, he wasn't even the supreme God in the Canaanite Pantheon. So God creates the entire universe, and let's man evolve, only to reveal himself to one small nation, who are his only worshippers for thousands of years until Jesus and Mohammed come along?

 

[JoeB131]

All of us use subjective evidence and have no quarrel with it. Why quarrel with it when it comes to God? Also, have you looked into the findings within the Shroud of Turin or evidence surrounding the Eucharist? There is also Lourdes. Atheists don't want evidence. Even when it is available, they dismiss it as if it doesn't exist. That brings us back to the question, even when evidence is available, why is it so tough to believe in God?

Yes, we've looked into the Shroud of Turin.

We know it's a fraud.

How do we know it's a fraud? Because "Pope" Clement VII said it was. (Okay, he wasn't actually a Pope, he's an anti-Pope, which is how the Church later erases history it's embarrassed by.)



Of course, he still allowed people to venerate it. Those collection boxes aren't going to fill themselves!!!

Now, here's an easy way to tell the Shroud is a fraud. The man in the Shroud has his hands over his genitals. Obviously, whoever painted it didn't want to paint the Holy Wang. Now, for those playing along at home, try lying on your back and putting your hands over your groin area without using any muscles. No bending your shoulders or extending your arms, just try to do it naturally. You know, like a corpse would.

Don't worry, you can't.

 

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

It's vital to me to understand how the world works. If you only have a grace of a "God" depending on where you are born, that doesn't really say a lot.

At one time, Zeus had many times the followers than Yahweh had. Did that make Zeus real?

Is Yahweh only the God of the West, and Vishnu is in charge of India? Is Amaterasu in charge of Japan? Do they all get together on Saturday Night and play cards?

View attachment 1181442

I think of it as different names and/or understandings of God, or The Ultimate Mystery, based on each culture and/or geographic region.

And where they line up is where I think universal truth lies.

And where they don't is obviously the unique metaphysical perspective of each people and religion.

This song by George Harrison is a perfect embodiment of this, as well as his own universal perspective within his adopted religion of Hinduism.

 

[MostBoringManInTheWorld]

Personal interaction/prayer with God can help mitigate what you may be experiencing. With God, each situation is unique and personal. Some who claim to speak for God may base it on something God said in scripture seemingly totally unaware that in another circumstance he said the opposite because of the difference/uniqueness in what was happening.

This is why, when someone proof texts/cherry picks one Biblical verse, it is vital we all keep in mind that there may be a ton of verses that are being ignored. We live complex, intricate, and complicated lives. One verse cannot/does not cover all.

Not only that, but those who lord it over others in the name of the Lord, but don't lord it over themselves.

You know, the whole speck in someone else's eye versus the plank in one's own eye.

Religion is rife with such people, which turns off a whole bunch of other people.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't have a fear of death. I'm actually surprised I lived this long.

I am certainly not so afraid of death I give some creep in a vestment power over my life.

You avoided my point entirely about Zeus vs. Yahweh. It's not that we "Know better now" (which is why I think you were desperately grasping for the Flat Earth analogy). It's that we've exchanged on imaginary sky pixie for another.

And this is the absurdity of it. Assuming your God, Yahweh, is genuinely the Supreme Being, and all those other gods are false - Zeus, Odin, Krishna, Amaterasu, heck even Allah (although one can argue he is just another version of Yahweh), then how is it that those false gods even existed?

At one time, Yahweh was only worshipped by one small tribe, and early on, he wasn't even the supreme God in the Canaanite Pantheon. So God creates the entire universe, and let's man evolve, only to reveal himself to one small nation, who are his only worshippers for thousands of years until Jesus and Mohammed come along?

Joe, I've suggested to you before to study ancient history to learn how many Egyptian, Greek, and Roman gods came into being--and to learn how all of these are different from the One God. Knowledge grows and expands, as was pointed out using the analogy of physical science. Yet you cling (sometimes it seems cling desperately) to your "sky pixie". Shrug. Read your own posts. You don't fear death--yet you hold a strong certainty everyone else does. You have no knowledge/experience of God, so all other knowledge/experiences you attribute to your belief in a "sky pixie". Most of us do not live in that that very small world world of pixies that limit one's knowledge of history to one's own small story with its own conclusions--which by definition are minute.

 

[Meriweather]

Don't worry, you can't.

Can it be done when someone tightly wraps you in a linen cloth?

Have you read what AI found while scanning the cloth?

 

[Meriweather]

Not only that, but those who lord it over others in the name of the Lord, but don't lord it over themselves.

You know, the whole speck in someone else's eye versus the plank in one's own eye.

Religion is rife with such people, which turns off a whole bunch of other people.

That whole bunch of other people? With the Word of the Lord, they should be able not to "turn off" but to turn on and turn to the Lord. Jesus noted many people are like sheep without a shepherd--and he spoke of sheep in wolves' clothing. Run from the wolves and to that shepherd who has left the rest of his flock to find them. People of faith, who have their eyes on God and His ways/teachings, should be strong enough to overcome those whose purpose is to lord it over others. While I can sympathize with those who are turned off by such people, it's an extremely weak excuse/reason to turn from the Lord.

 

[hobelim]

Do you really think these words are profound and not just a cry for help?

A cry for help? lol. No. It was a response to what you said when you said that what I said was an interpretation that you never heard before intended to alert you to what is actually happening. The verse is a quote from Isaiah 52:14 which is a prophecy fulfilled. Here is Maimonides commentary on this verse;

"What the great powers are, which all the prophets from Moses to Malachi ascribe to the Messiah, may be inferred from various statements in the twenty-four books of Scripture. The most significant of them all is the fact that the mere report of his advent will strike terror into the hearts of all the kings of the earth, and their kingdoms will fall, neither will they be able to war or revolt against him. They will neither defame nor calumniate him, for the miracles he will perform will frighten them into complete silence. Isaiah refers to the submission of the kings to the Messiah in the verse, "Kings shall shut their mouth because of him." (52:15). He will slay whom he will, none will escape or be saved, as it is written, "And he shall smite the land with the rod of his mouth." (Isaiah 11:4)."

You certainly seem like a lone voice in the wilderness.

I'm sure that it may seem that way to you, but I assure you, it only seems that way.

Why do you think trump suddenly started musing OUT LOUD that his chances of getting into hebbin were slim because he is at the very bottom? lol

This lone voice in the wilderness who made straight the way of the Lord only needs fire from the sky and I have it.

 

[alang1216]

A cry for help? lol. No. It was a response to what you said when you said that what I said was an interpretation that you never heard before intended to alert you to what is actually happening. The verse is a quote from Isaiah 52:14 which is a prophecy fulfilled. Here is Maimonides commentary on this verse;

"What the great powers are, which all the prophets from Moses to Malachi ascribe to the Messiah, may be inferred from various statements in the twenty-four books of Scripture. The most significant of them all is the fact that the mere report of his advent will strike terror into the hearts of all the kings of the earth, and their kingdoms will fall, neither will they be able to war or revolt against him. They will neither defame nor calumniate him, for the miracles he will perform will frighten them into complete silence. Isaiah refers to the submission of the kings to the Messiah in the verse, "Kings shall shut their mouth because of him." (52:15). He will slay whom he will, none will escape or be saved, as it is written, "And he shall smite the land with the rod of his mouth." (Isaiah 11:4)."


I'm sure that it may seem that way to you, but I assure you, it only seems that way.

Why do you think trump suddenly started musing OUT LOUD that his chances of getting into hebbin were slim because he is at the very bottom? lol

This lone voice in the wilderness who made straight the way of the Lord only needs fire from the sky and I have it.

Sounds to me like a call for help from the messiah.

 

[braalian]

Is it because:

• Lack of belief we are lovable
• Lack of belief we are cared for
• Lack of belief God is an active agent in our lives
• Lack of belief we have a reason for being

What blocks people from believing in God? Why is it so hard to believe?

Oh come on, the obvious reason is a lot of people don’t believe in something without actual proof

You’re just building straw man arguments

 

[hobelim]

Sounds to me like a call for help from the messiah.

Maybe you should take another harder look. To me is doesn't sound like a call for help. It sounds like a rout.

The most significant of them all is the fact that the mere report of his advent will strike terror into the hearts of all the kings of the earth, and their kingdoms will fall, neither will they be able to war or revolt against him. They will neither defame nor calumniate him, for the miracles he will perform will frighten them into complete silence. Isaiah refers to the submission of the kings to the Messiah in the verse, "Kings shall shut their mouth because of him." (52:15). He will slay whom he will, none will escape or be saved, as it is written, "And he shall smite the land with the rod of his mouth." (Isaiah 11:4)."

 

[Meriweather]

Oh come on, the obvious reason is a lot of people don’t believe in something without actual proof

You’re just building straw man arguments

Have you considered the true "straw man argument" for not pursuing a relationship with God is the argument, "There is no physical evidence?"

I've said before that those who limit themselves to the physical world are the settlers. The explorers and pioneers are those who seek the spiritual that lies outside the boundaries of the physical. Settlers settler for what is familiar to them. Explorers and pioneers take an interest in the possibilities that lie beyond seas, mountains, and horizons.

 

[alang1216]

Maybe you should take another harder look. To me is doesn't sound like a call for help. It sounds like a rout.

The most significant of them all is the fact that the mere report of his advent will strike terror into the hearts of all the kings of the earth, and their kingdoms will fall, neither will they be able to war or revolt against him. They will neither defame nor calumniate him, for the miracles he will perform will frighten them into complete silence. Isaiah refers to the submission of the kings to the Messiah in the verse, "Kings shall shut their mouth because of him." (52:15). He will slay whom he will, none will escape or be saved, as it is written, "And he shall smite the land with the rod of his mouth." (Isaiah 11:4)."

Wishing for a messiah seems like the ultimate cry for help. Jesus was not the one hoped for. The closest the Jews ever came was Cyrus.

 

[Lockback]

Lack of evidence there is a God.

The evidence is everywhere if you open your mind and heart.

 

[hadit]

Sounds like you believe in the OT (the NT too?) but have an interpretation of it I've never heard before. Are you a congregation of one?

He's created his own complete belief system in which absolutely none of the Bible is taken at face value, just the interpretation he wants to believe.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus was not the one hoped for. The closest the Jews ever came was Cyrus.

Ah, but Jesus was the one promised, the one Moses spoke of. It wasn't until David was king (about 400 years later) that the prophet, Nathan, spoke of one of David's descendants being a king like David--an earthly king, ruling over a kingdom on earth. Jesus noted his kingdom was not of this world.