CDZ Why I support Universal healthcare, and why I don't.

[Tommy Tainant]

Healthcare in the US sounds like an enormous burden on the individual.Its expensive and complicated and that is a recipe for disaster. No country anywhere in the world would adopt your system.

 

[progressive hunter]

Healthcare in the US sounds like an enormous burden on the individual.Its expensive and complicated and that is a recipe for disaster. No country anywhere in the world would adopt your system.

you dont realize the individual in america is far stronger than your average brit and have no problems like you subjects have,,

just look at how easy we kicked your ass in 1776 with farmers,,,

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Universal coverage can also include public/private partnerships, such as our current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage program, which could be tweaked to work for all Americans. It would also be individual and portable, include dynamic choice, free market competition and innovation, and take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American employers.

Right now, we have SIX (6) different healthcare delivery/payment systems, none of which communicates directly with the others:

1. Medicare
2. Medicaid
3. VA
4. Group
5. Individual
6. Indigent

I wonder how many people really think that's a smart "system".

Medicare is God awful.
When my father passed away with brain cancer 3 years ago this month.... I truly got a glimpse at just how bad medicare is.
At one point, and more than once... he was lying in the emergency room in extreme pain but not getting medication because of Medicare's archaic and unmerciful policies between Medicare and Hospice care. It is a fucking, vile evil set up.
I hope you and yours do not have to experience it.
And then after my father passed away, it left his wife... my mother... buried in red tape that you need a lawyer to figure out.
It is impersonal, uncaring and without care about what people are going through.
It shouldn't be called Medicare... it should be called Medifuckyou if you get terminally ill

What was Medicare's archaic and unmerciful policies that prevented him from receiving meds for pain?

Cheapness. We went through it with my mom. Is it worse when the person is put into hospice? It shouldn’t be. If you have to give up Medicare to get hospice, that shouldn’t be a downgrade it should be an upgrade. And give them enough morphine that it will kill them. Stop the needless suffering

Most of the time a person who is admitted to hospice you have to give up all other meds except for pain relief. His post wasn't clear he mentioned ER and hospice. So ER denied relief or hospice? IV morphine is not that expensive but then again Medicare approved cost is much lower than what a hospital or hospice would charge. Was it a hospice facility or hospice in home?

Hospice in home.
You are correct, when you sign on to receive hospice care, which is wonderful, you are prohibited to receive any sort of life sustaining care. Which on the surface sounds okay. But in many cases, "comfort care" and sustaining care cross paths. Like I said, he would get dehydrated which can and does cause all manner of painful and uncomfortable symptoms. It is absurd that they won't even allow simple IV meds, that are not expensive and work very quickly.
He got sick in late October, and died in January. But got bad-bad in December.
My father died eventually of starvation. Which is what kills a great many people in hospice care. Dad lost the ability to swallow, but was still fairly conscious and aware. I want everyone to think about that. He knew what was going on. He knew he was wasting away. He knew he was going to die, not from the illness, but from the inability to simply receive intravenous vitamins/glucose etc. so he could at least die peacefully.
So we had to choose to kill him.
The day before we put him in the nursing home, he was sitting up and interacting with us. He could sort of speak, not because of mental decline, but because of his brain tumor. He was aware, smiled at us...and could kind of laugh at something funny....to what physical capacity he could still laugh. HE WAS CONCIOUS.
But he could not stay in the hospital. Because medicare won't pay for it.
So we sent him to a nursing home. They basically gave him enough morphine to shut everything down. He never regained consciousness and died in just over 24 hours. Where 24 hours before he was a living, conscious human being. Aware and interacting with his family. But medicare will not pay fot that. But they will gladly pay for the morphine to kill you.

It cost a lot of money to keep someone alive. No question it’s better for Medicare and hospice when someone dies In a day or two Rather than three weeks. They don’t want you to live past 30 days. It’s funny we all wish they would give us a pill that puts us to sleep and we don’t wake up, but we won’t give the pill to our loveone who’s dying. We hold on as long as we can.

They asked if we wanted to put my grandmother on a neck breather. They had to take the tube out of her throat. Do we want to have the machine breath for her via the neck and she’ll live for months maybe a year that way? Fuck no. Take the tube out. If she can’t breath on her own she’ll die. Ok fine. She wouldn’t want to be bed ridden with a breathing machine hooked up to her neck.

Oh my father had a DNR, that is a very important document for all to sign.
But he wasn't suffering. He was dehydrated only. He was conscious, able to communicate with us... he watched football with my brother and I.
The problem was his tumor removed/effected a number of his motor skills, including swallowing. He couldn't swallow much at a time, and water was too fast. He could swallow creamed foods. Thus why he would get dehydrated. But because medicare refused to pay the hospital would not allow him to stay. And the nursing home, under hospice rules, could not give him IV liquids. So we all sat in a room with the hospital staff doctor, some family care person while they explained this to us. In the end the decision was to place him in the nursing home where they would "keep him comfortable" aka - high doses of morphine which will put him to sleep and cause multiple organ failure... die.
He was not suffering in bad pain. He was communicative and aware of what was happening.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Healthcare in the US sounds like an enormous burden on the individual.Its expensive and complicated and that is a recipe for disaster. No country anywhere in the world would adopt your system.

Bullshit. I have seen the documentaries. You do not treat your elderly any better.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong, conservatives weren't "fine" with Romneycare and knew that it was a dumb idea.........

Actually, they thought nothing of the sort.

In 2008, Mitt Romney was a major contender for president and in 2012 he got the nomination. The idea that you guys were totally against it is kind of silly.

Heck, let's not forget, the original idea for expanding private insurance came from the Heritage Foundation as a counter-proposal to HillaryCare.

 

[Pete7469]

Well you got it right that far at least!
I would love to get into a complete discussion with you on more issues besides health care, but you probably wouldn't get much enjoyment out of it.

My commie head is already exploding with anticipation.

LOL... as dense as your commie head likely is, an explosion would be something of a supernova. I will gladly take your challenge and will refrain from further ad hominem at least until you ad straw men or simply lie.

One caveat...

You must promise to never reproduce (not that I think you have a lot of options) but if you find yourself in a transaction where your genetic waste could infest a woman's uterus at least wear a condom and a face mask. There are enough people in prison and on welfare as it is.

I assert that the US HC system is a colossal goat fuck because of government. I have been to places where government does not regulate the industry into paralysis without an army of lawyers that do nothing but research regulations, search for compliance issues, interfere with the relationship between providers and patients, and generally absorb more of the revenue than the people who actually wear scrubs and deal with their customers.

I happen to have been treated in foreign countries from a variety of ailments, and know others who have had to seek treatment here in the US because that was somehow still better than waiting in europe or canada for routines that cost a fraction without the wait.

So please Mr Commie Donald, enlighten us with your wisdom. Tell us how government has improved anything, for anyone other than a ruling class and how left wing governments are creating widespread prosperity and raising the standards of living for their lowest classes without reducing the standards of their middle classes.

This ought to be fucking hysterical....

.

 

[Donald H]

Well you got it right that far at least!
I would love to get into a complete discussion with you on more issues besides health care, but you probably wouldn't get much enjoyment out of it.

My commie head is already exploding with anticipation.

I assert that the US HC system is a colossal goat fuck because of government.

Exactly! it's a goatfk and and it's because of the corrupt US government that is bought and paid for by lobbyists who work for big insurance companies. Let me know if we're togethr on that so far.

I have been to places where government does not regulate the industry into paralysis without an army of lawyers that do nothing but research regulations, search for compliance issues, interfere with the relationship between providers and patients, and generally absorb more of the revenue than the people who actually wear scrubs and deal with their customers.

Likewise, I have too! I think that's a good description of Canada's and B.C.'s health care system. And I've been to Cuba many times too. Their healthcare system is always rated as one place worse than America's, so I can't say if that's good or bad. One thing for sure it that it is superb
for a banana republic and that it puts an entirely different light on poverty! Ask me how. And also please note that I had to guess at the meaning of that remark from you because of poor sentence structure! Something about not needing an army of lawyers in places you've been, and then regulations tacked on to make it more confusing??

I happen to have been treated in foreign countries from a variety of ailments, and know others who have had to seek treatment here in the US because that was somehow still better than waiting in europe or canada for routines that cost a fraction without the wait.

Could you give some consideration to sentence structure? I'm not ignoring you or trying to be rude, some of your sentences are a bit garbled. It's o.k. to break your thoughts into shorter sentences for the sake of getting your point across.

This ought to be fucking hysterical....

I wouldn't go quite that far.

(please bring your profanity and personal insults under control. It's not my preference to have to report Americans for bad behaviour)
I think we're going to get along just fine!

 

[alang1216]

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which was to have the explicit task of achieving specified savings in Medicare without affecting coverage or quality.

Isn't that what we all want?

not when unelected bureacrats decide who lives or dies,,

Who elected those insurance company bureaucrats?

thats a stupid question,,,

we chose to do business with them,, not forced to at the point of a gun,,,

They are often the only game in town since most of us get health insurance through our employer.

true,, but before the government got involved they werent needed as much as they are now,,,

I don't think you can compare the cost of care 100 years ago with the cost today. We took the easy way out by giving businesses and employees tax breaks instead of keeping them separately funded.

whos going back a 100yrs,, I'm talking about when the medicaid act was passed that put the government deep into the system,,

if you look deep into it you will see a lot of restriction and controls of the whole system not just medicaid,,

You may want to go back to the days of barbers and snake oil salesmen but I like the fact the government set standards.

 

[Donald H]

Healthcare in the US sounds like an enormous burden on the individual.Its expensive and complicated and that is a recipe for disaster. No country anywhere in the world would adopt your system.

Their life expectancy is in the sewer Tommy, and so is their infant mortality rate completely over the top for a modern democratic country. However, both could be influenced negatively by gun violence as well as a healthcare system that belongs in the 19th. century!

Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2024) - Worldometer

List of countries and dependencies in the world ranked by life expectancy at birth, both sexes, males and females. World Population Life Expectancy with historical chart

www.worldometers.info

 

[progressive hunter]

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which was to have the explicit task of achieving specified savings in Medicare without affecting coverage or quality.

Isn't that what we all want?

not when unelected bureacrats decide who lives or dies,,

Who elected those insurance company bureaucrats?

thats a stupid question,,,

we chose to do business with them,, not forced to at the point of a gun,,,

They are often the only game in town since most of us get health insurance through our employer.

true,, but before the government got involved they werent needed as much as they are now,,,

I don't think you can compare the cost of care 100 years ago with the cost today. We took the easy way out by giving businesses and employees tax breaks instead of keeping them separately funded.

whos going back a 100yrs,, I'm talking about when the medicaid act was passed that put the government deep into the system,,

if you look deep into it you will see a lot of restriction and controls of the whole system not just medicaid,,

You may want to go back to the days of barbers and snake oil salesmen but I like the fact the government set standards.

theyve gone way past setting standards,,,

 

[sealybobo]

Universal coverage can also include public/private partnerships, such as our current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage program, which could be tweaked to work for all Americans. It would also be individual and portable, include dynamic choice, free market competition and innovation, and take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American employers.

Right now, we have SIX (6) different healthcare delivery/payment systems, none of which communicates directly with the others:

1. Medicare
2. Medicaid
3. VA
4. Group
5. Individual
6. Indigent

I wonder how many people really think that's a smart "system".

Medicare is God awful.
When my father passed away with brain cancer 3 years ago this month.... I truly got a glimpse at just how bad medicare is.
At one point, and more than once... he was lying in the emergency room in extreme pain but not getting medication because of Medicare's archaic and unmerciful policies between Medicare and Hospice care. It is a fucking, vile evil set up.
I hope you and yours do not have to experience it.
And then after my father passed away, it left his wife... my mother... buried in red tape that you need a lawyer to figure out.
It is impersonal, uncaring and without care about what people are going through.
It shouldn't be called Medicare... it should be called Medifuckyou if you get terminally ill

What was Medicare's archaic and unmerciful policies that prevented him from receiving meds for pain?

Cheapness. We went through it with my mom. Is it worse when the person is put into hospice? It shouldn’t be. If you have to give up Medicare to get hospice, that shouldn’t be a downgrade it should be an upgrade. And give them enough morphine that it will kill them. Stop the needless suffering

Most of the time a person who is admitted to hospice you have to give up all other meds except for pain relief. His post wasn't clear he mentioned ER and hospice. So ER denied relief or hospice? IV morphine is not that expensive but then again Medicare approved cost is much lower than what a hospital or hospice would charge. Was it a hospice facility or hospice in home?

Hospice in home.
You are correct, when you sign on to receive hospice care, which is wonderful, you are prohibited to receive any sort of life sustaining care. Which on the surface sounds okay. But in many cases, "comfort care" and sustaining care cross paths. Like I said, he would get dehydrated which can and does cause all manner of painful and uncomfortable symptoms. It is absurd that they won't even allow simple IV meds, that are not expensive and work very quickly.
He got sick in late October, and died in January. But got bad-bad in December.
My father died eventually of starvation. Which is what kills a great many people in hospice care. Dad lost the ability to swallow, but was still fairly conscious and aware. I want everyone to think about that. He knew what was going on. He knew he was wasting away. He knew he was going to die, not from the illness, but from the inability to simply receive intravenous vitamins/glucose etc. so he could at least die peacefully.
So we had to choose to kill him.
The day before we put him in the nursing home, he was sitting up and interacting with us. He could sort of speak, not because of mental decline, but because of his brain tumor. He was aware, smiled at us...and could kind of laugh at something funny....to what physical capacity he could still laugh. HE WAS CONCIOUS.
But he could not stay in the hospital. Because medicare won't pay for it.
So we sent him to a nursing home. They basically gave him enough morphine to shut everything down. He never regained consciousness and died in just over 24 hours. Where 24 hours before he was a living, conscious human being. Aware and interacting with his family. But medicare will not pay fot that. But they will gladly pay for the morphine to kill you.

It cost a lot of money to keep someone alive. No question it’s better for Medicare and hospice when someone dies In a day or two Rather than three weeks. They don’t want you to live past 30 days. It’s funny we all wish they would give us a pill that puts us to sleep and we don’t wake up, but we won’t give the pill to our loveone who’s dying. We hold on as long as we can.

They asked if we wanted to put my grandmother on a neck breather. They had to take the tube out of her throat. Do we want to have the machine breath for her via the neck and she’ll live for months maybe a year that way? Fuck no. Take the tube out. If she can’t breath on her own she’ll die. Ok fine. She wouldn’t want to be bed ridden with a breathing machine hooked up to her neck.

Oh my father had a DNR, that is a very important document for all to sign.
But he wasn't suffering. He was dehydrated only. He was conscious, able to communicate with us... he watched football with my brother and I.
The problem was his tumor removed/effected a number of his motor skills, including swallowing. He couldn't swallow much at a time, and water was too fast. He could swallow creamed foods. Thus why he would get dehydrated. But because medicare refused to pay the hospital would not allow him to stay. And the nursing home, under hospice rules, could not give him IV liquids. So we all sat in a room with the hospital staff doctor, some family care person while they explained this to us. In the end the decision was to place him in the nursing home where they would "keep him comfortable" aka - high doses of morphine which will put him to sleep and cause multiple organ failure... die.
He was not suffering in bad pain. He was communicative and aware of what was happening.

Sad isn’t it? My mom had real bad Alzheimer’s. I wonder who had it worse her or your father. Do you want to know your life is over or be so out of it you dont know what’s happening to you. Either way it’s sad and I feel real bad for you or anyone else who goes through it. Which will be all of us eventually. I remember my sister in law helping us through it With my mom. It’s not the same unless it’s your close family member. Now her parents are getting old and her father has some pretty bad health problems. I wish more of us passed away in our sleep. That’s the easiest death for all of us to accept.

 

[Sunsettommy]

Universal coverage can also include public/private partnerships, such as our current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage program, which could be tweaked to work for all Americans. It would also be individual and portable, include dynamic choice, free market competition and innovation, and take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American employers.

Right now, we have SIX (6) different healthcare delivery/payment systems, none of which communicates directly with the others:

1. Medicare
2. Medicaid
3. VA
4. Group
5. Individual
6. Indigent

I wonder how many people really think that's a smart "system".

How many of them are GOVERNMENT programs?

 

[sealybobo]

Universal coverage can also include public/private partnerships, such as our current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage program, which could be tweaked to work for all Americans. It would also be individual and portable, include dynamic choice, free market competition and innovation, and take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American employers.

Right now, we have SIX (6) different healthcare delivery/payment systems, none of which communicates directly with the others:

1. Medicare
2. Medicaid
3. VA
4. Group
5. Individual
6. Indigent

I wonder how many people really think that's a smart "system".

Medicare is God awful.
When my father passed away with brain cancer 3 years ago this month.... I truly got a glimpse at just how bad medicare is.
At one point, and more than once... he was lying in the emergency room in extreme pain but not getting medication because of Medicare's archaic and unmerciful policies between Medicare and Hospice care. It is a fucking, vile evil set up.
I hope you and yours do not have to experience it.
And then after my father passed away, it left his wife... my mother... buried in red tape that you need a lawyer to figure out.
It is impersonal, uncaring and without care about what people are going through.
It shouldn't be called Medicare... it should be called Medifuckyou if you get terminally ill

What was Medicare's archaic and unmerciful policies that prevented him from receiving meds for pain?

My mom was being helped by the nurses and nurses aids at the hospital. As soon as she went on hospice the hospital couldn’t lift a finger for her. We had to call hospice for anything and they weren’t there 24/7.

In my experience hospice is great if you are going to be dying in a couple days. If it’s going to take a couple weeks there are some flaws with hospice.

 

[Pete7469]

I assert that the US HC system is a colossal goat fuck because of government.

Exactly! it's a goatfk and and it's because of the corrupt US government that is bought and paid for by lobbyists who work for big insurance companies. Let me know if we're togethr on that so far.

I'm pretty sure we are, I made the assertion, you endorsed it and confirmed it. In an actual debate of the issue you would have taken the opposite position and given reasons to support MORE government involvement in the industry. You're not very good at this are you?

I have been to places where government does not regulate the industry into paralysis without an army of lawyers that do nothing but research regulations, search for compliance issues, interfere with the relationship between providers and patients, and generally absorb more of the revenue than the people who actually wear scrubs and deal with their customers.

Likewise, I have too! I think that's a good description of Canada's and B.C.'s health care system. And I've been to Cuba many times too. Their healthcare system is always rated as one place worse than America's, so I can't say if that's good or bad. One thing for sure it that it is superb for a banana republic and that it puts an entirely different light on poverty! Ask me how. And also please note that I had to guess at the meaning of that remark from you because of poor sentence structure! Something about not needing an army of lawyers in places you've been, and then regulations tacked on to make it more confusing??

If you're going to trivialize the conversation with inane complaints about how I word things when you've already had spelling errors, don't waste my time. You obviously understood the point that I made. The cost of HC in the US would be a fraction of what it is if not for the volumes of regulations and constant changes being made by bureaucrats and the massive legal costs paid by the industry to keep lawyers on retainer that review these regulations. On top of that the tort laws nearly paralyze HC providers because of the potential lawsuits that arise from the most casual errors. Bringing up the appalling circumstances that exist in Cuba also marginalizes your "opposing" position in support of leftwing causes. You did not think this through did you?

I happen to have been treated in foreign countries from a variety of ailments, and know others who have had to seek treatment here in the US because that was somehow still better than waiting in europe or canada for routines that cost a fraction without the wait.

Could you give some consideration to sentence structure? I'm not ignoring you or trying to be rude, some of your sentences are a bit garbled. It's o.k. to break your thoughts into shorter sentences for the sake of getting your point across.

At this point you've just gotten childish

This ought to be fucking hysterical....

I wouldn't go quite that far.

(please bring your profanity and personal insults under control. It's not my preference to have to report Americans for bad behaviour)
I think we're going to get along just fine!

I did not insult you at any point once I accepted your challenge to debate me, which you totally failed to do. In fact all you did was support my position that collectivism is not working for people. If a few bad words create moisture in your diaper it might be time to man the fuck up, get off your high horse and stand up for whatever it is you believe in. Secondly, if you're another one of these euroweenie turds inserting yourself into conversations about US politics I have to wonder why you can't concentrate on fixing your own shit hole country.


.

 

[Mac1958]

Universal coverage can also include public/private partnerships, such as our current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage program, which could be tweaked to work for all Americans. It would also be individual and portable, include dynamic choice, free market competition and innovation, and take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American employers.

Right now, we have SIX (6) different healthcare delivery/payment systems, none of which communicates directly with the others:

1. Medicare
2. Medicaid
3. VA
4. Group
5. Individual
6. Indigent

I wonder how many people really think that's a smart "system".

How many of them are GOVERNMENT programs?

Um, three.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Healthcare in the US sounds like an enormous burden on the individual.Its expensive and complicated and that is a recipe for disaster. No country anywhere in the world would adopt your system.

Their life expectancy is in the sewer Tommy, and so is their infant mortality rate completely over the top for a modern democratic country. However, both could be influenced negatively by gun violence as well as a healthcare system that belongs in the 19th. century!

Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2024) - Worldometer

List of countries and dependencies in the world ranked by life expectancy at birth, both sexes, males and females. World Population Life Expectancy with historical chart

www.worldometers.info

Nonsense.
Once again you consistently and predictably leave out pertinent information that makes a lot of what you say complete garbage.
America's health problems are due to catastrophic eating habits. Many people, especially the low incomers, are too lazy to cook/fix a meal and eat fast food as many as 10 - 12 meals a week. Meals low in nutrition and vitamins, and high in fat/sodium/sugar. These eating habits cause all manner of sickness and disease.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Healthcare in the US sounds like an enormous burden on the individual.Its expensive and complicated and that is a recipe for disaster. No country anywhere in the world would adopt your system.

Their life expectancy is in the sewer Tommy, and so is their infant mortality rate completely over the top for a modern democratic country. However, both could be influenced negatively by gun violence as well as a healthcare system that belongs in the 19th. century!

Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2024) - Worldometer

List of countries and dependencies in the world ranked by life expectancy at birth, both sexes, males and females. World Population Life Expectancy with historical chart

www.worldometers.info

Ive seen stats that explain the US pays double for healthcare than other countries. Thats great but there is very little difference in the outcomes.
It suggests that there are several parties to the transactions who have a vested interest in preserving the current set up. Probably through buying politicians.

 

[MarathonMike]

Universal coverage can also include public/private partnerships, such as our current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage program, which could be tweaked to work for all Americans. It would also be individual and portable, include dynamic choice, free market competition and innovation, and take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American employers.

Right now, we have SIX (6) different healthcare delivery/payment systems, none of which communicates directly with the others:

1. Medicare
2. Medicaid
3. VA
4. Group
5. Individual
6. Indigent

I wonder how many people really think that's a smart "system".

Smart systems and government are mutually exclusive. Just about all Federal expansion that has happened over the last 100 years has resulted in massive inefficiencies and fraud which of course tax payers pay for. And of course the tax code itself continues to grow despite the tepid calls for "simplification".

 

[flack]

Wrong, conservatives weren't "fine" with Romneycare and knew that it was a dumb idea.........

Actually, they thought nothing of the sort.

In 2008, Mitt Romney was a major contender for president and in 2012 he got the nomination. The idea that you guys were totally against it is kind of silly.

Heck, let's not forget, the original idea for expanding private insurance came from the Heritage Foundation as a counter-proposal to HillaryCare.

Have you read the Heritage idea?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Healthcare in the US sounds like an enormous burden on the individual.Its expensive and complicated and that is a recipe for disaster. No country anywhere in the world would adopt your system.

Their life expectancy is in the sewer Tommy, and so is their infant mortality rate completely over the top for a modern democratic country. However, both could be influenced negatively by gun violence as well as a healthcare system that belongs in the 19th. century!

Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2024) - Worldometer

List of countries and dependencies in the world ranked by life expectancy at birth, both sexes, males and females. World Population Life Expectancy with historical chart

www.worldometers.info

Ive seen stats that explain the US pays double for healthcare than other countries. Thats great but there is very little difference in the outcomes.
It suggests that there are several parties to the transactions who have a vested interest in preserving the current set up. Probably through buying politicians.

You guys just love to repeat bad information don't you? And it doesn't matter how many times you are corrected, with proof, you just keep parroting the same narrative. Over and over.