Healthcare in the US is a privilege

[PeterPilot]

Yep. Private interests lobbying for laws that hamper their competition and give them an edge. That was the story of ACA. The story of so much "well-meaning" legislation that was really just a handout to business interests


Huh? What does that have to do with fascism?

Socialism isn't "government funding something that helps the common man". It's state control of the means of production.

It has to do with fascism in exactly what you said, private interest corporations lobbying for laws that hamper their competition (in this case even as 'the competition' was founded in the US Constitution) and given them an advantage.

I use the term fascism in the Mussolini version, corporatism. We have a system in which the federal government is controlled by special interests, and the vast majority of them are corporations. A system in which corporations write laws and policies on the federal level. A variant example is what Ike called the military industrial complex, or more recently the medical industrial complex which delivered the scamdemic upon us by way of the CARES Act and others.

 

[dblack]

It has to do with fascism in exactly what you said, private interest corporations lobbying for laws that hamper their competition (in this case even as 'the competition' was founded in the US Constitution) and given them an advantage.

I use the term fascism in the Mussolini version, corporatism. We have a system in which the federal government is controlled by special interests, and the vast majority of them are corporations. A system in which corporations write laws and policies on the federal level. A variant example is what Ike called the military industrial complex, or more recently the medical industrial complex which delivered the scamdemic upon us by way of the CARES Act and others.

Ahh...yes, actual corporatism. I agree.

But that's interesting. I've always seen corporatism as more a matter of government seeking to control special interests, by parsing out favor and penalty as necessary to balance their interests. But the collusion is the same, either way.

The key component of corporatism, in my view, is the replacement of individual rights, nominally equal for everyone, with group rights, which depend on which interest group (class, race, profession, etc ..) you belong to - aka "identity politics". And we're deeply into that transition. Democrats won't even mention individual rights, other than derisively. And Republicans mostly agree - in their actions if not their rhetoric. They're both committed to the primacy of the state as the ultimate representation of society.

 

[PeterPilot]

Is the difference between GOP and Dems theoretical or practical? I think only theoretical. In real life, judging by actions in government, there is no difference. Politics is the art of compromise isn't it?

 

[dblack]

Is the difference between GOP and Dems theoretical or practical? I think only theoretical. In real life, judging by actions in government, there is no difference.

Now that Republicans are all in on the culture war, I don't see much difference between them in terms of ideology. They're more worried about restroom etiquette than clearly defining the purpose of government.

Politics is the art of compromise isn't it?

I think consensus is more important than compromise. And there IS a difference.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Captain Caveman]

The state of US healthcare -

 

[Captain Caveman]

 

[Ringo]

View attachment 1115323

 

[JohnDB]

 

[Rambunctious]

 

[Captain Caveman]

Well, it's a dead cert the high taxes in California are gonna go higher

 

[Captain Caveman]

 

[JustAGuy1]

The only country in the world with the bulk of private healthcare is the US. A search, AI says -

While many countries have healthcare systems with both public and private components, the United States is the only OECD country where voluntary health insurance is the main financing and coverage system for most of the population.

Healthcare is the US is a privilege, we enjoy healthcare as a RIGHT in the UK.

View attachment 1093752

How bad is that? Worse than most third world countries. And no, everyone doesn't fly to the US for healthcare, that's a fallacy.

Why is healthcare in the US so bad??

What cuts to other programs would you propose cuts to pay for this?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Why would they. Countries that provide government funded health care have very high taxes. The goal is to keep costs down so they can have those taxes. That's why so many countries that have government funded health care also have euthanasia. Bonus points for harvesting usable organs.

In effect, you pay a VERY high tax in the form of healthcare insurance. And after paying it, go bankrupt.

 

[forkup]

Let me put my 2 cents in. I'm Belgian my wife's American so I'm probably one of the few people here who has real life first hand examples of how the differences play out in practice.

First as noted some overview. Not first hand but more in the way of statistical information. The American healthcare system if calculated as cost per Capita is by far the most expensive in the world , and it's not close. So this means that if you count taxes plus out of pocket cost Americans pay much more.

If this could be justified by superior results that would be one thing. But it results in some of the worst health outcomes over many different criteria among developed nations.

So what does this mean in practice. Well, my mother in-law who had good insurance for American norms, had savings and a paid off house ended up dying without either. From a combination of the crazy way American doctors manage pain, faulty post-op care resulting in the need to go into a rehabilitation center to learn how to walk again and a cost so high that it broke her financially.

These are things that are extremely rare across developed nations but are routine events in the US.

 

[initforme]

Nobody should go bankrupt because of health care bills in the worlds wealthiest nation. Ever. Not one.

 

[dblack]

Nobody should go bankrupt because of health care bills in the worlds wealthiest nation.

Yeah. They should stop doing that.

Of course health care is a privilege. Every service that someone else provides you is a privilege. Doctors and nurses aren't your personal slaves. They serve you at their discretion, usually for money. You can hide that behind a bunch of bullshit politics, but that is ALWAYS the case.

 

[PeterPilot]

Yeah. They should stop doing that.

Of course health care is a privilege. Every service that someone else provides you is a privilege. Doctors and nurses aren't your personal slaves. They serve you at their discretion, usually for money. You can hide that behind a bunch of bullshit politics, but that is ALWAYS the case.

Then why did the new government open the US Public Health Service in 1798?

United States Public Health Service - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dblack]

Then why did the new government open the US Public Health Service in 1798?

United States Public Health Service - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Same reasons they want to socialize heath care now. It gives them a lot more power.

 

[PeterPilot]

Same reasons they want to socialize heath care now. It gives them a lot more power.

Do you mean to say that the men of 1798 were socialists? I wonder why they never mentioned socialism 11 years earlier when they wrote the founding document.

What exactly is socialism in your book? How do you define it?