Why Gun Control is Bullshit

[AntiParty]

Hell if no actions help anything then Why are there any laws in the first place?

Laws are written to create order (from chaos) among the law abiding citizenry, which consists of most people. Laws are written to create a uniform code and expectations in commerce and trade, etc. So long as those laws are just (not violating your natural unalienable rights), they will be followed --- happily.

However, a law written to create order among those prefer chaos (criminals) is ineffectual, and only hinders the law abiding. Also, lawyers and politicians are aware of this, therefore they know their gun control laws are useless and incapable of solving the problem they pretend to be attempting to solve. It's a pretense to disarm the citizenry that's been ongoing since 1946, after the Battle of Athens, Tennessee.

So let me throw the question back at you now:

Why not write a law that bans murder, wouldn't that solve the problem?

Is someone suggesting that gun laws will eliminate all gun violence? Whoops! Strawman shot down just like that.

You are fun to expose because you don't know the definition of strawman. What you are stating is that laws don't work all the time. Everyone knows this is true yet you think you are smart. Are you trying to state no laws will create no unlawful behavior? <--The Derp is REAL!

 

[AntiParty]

There is no question that there are controls over guns. The term "gun control" is such a broad issue that it has become a cliche. The dirty little secret of course is to substitute the word "confiscation" for "control" and that's the agenda of the low information often hypocritical left.

We have 32,000 gun deaths a year. Clearly, we don't have enough control over guns.

How many of those are suicides?

How many are justified?

Last estimate I heard was 8,000 criminal homicides.

Sure, that sounds like a lot...but there are 330 million citizens in this country, and there are 270 million guns.

Sounds like the vast majority of gun owners are controlling themselves.

There is no question that there are controls over guns. The term "gun control" is such a broad issue that it has become a cliche. The dirty little secret of course is to substitute the word "confiscation" for "control" and that's the agenda of the low information often hypocritical left.

We have 32,000 gun deaths a year. Clearly, we don't have enough control over guns.

So .00009% of the population

And some of those are suicides and suicides don't count
Some of those are people killed by cops and that doesn't count

If you want to worry about what's killing people you need to start worrying about heart disease , cancer and obesity.

You are taking kind of a stupid stance on the topic. "So what that is only 32k deaths per year"

I haven't even studied if that number is true yet but to write that off as a statistic is idiotic.

Again. Not saying you are Right or wrong. But justification of 32k deaths is bad, mkay.

 

[AntiParty]

Joe...why do you still use suicide...well...you use it to increase your numbers because 8-9,000 gun deaths a year in a country of 320 million is tragic but not relevant.....but It doesn't matter that Japan has a culture of suicide.....your argument is that getting rid of guns lowers the suicide rate...and that is not true just from looking at Japan and South Korea....they have no guns. At all......

If your family member was one of the 11,000 people murdered with guns every year, it would be relevent. It would also be relevent if your found one of the suicide victims, if he killed himself a few feet where you are sitting.

Joe...here is the FBI homicide table ....it is somewhat more accurate than the CDC for homicides.....

Gun murder rate for 2013...8,454.......out of 320 million people.........

The k00ks think that if you ban guns, the # will be zero!!!


A gun ban would drive gun murder rates into the stratosphere!!! The 2013 Harvard study makes that a slam dunk >> Harvard study concludes that gun control does not prevent murders other violent crime

IF guns were banned, then only the criminals will have guns,
I'm still trying to figure out how they(liberals) are going to get the criminals to turn in their guns, IF there were a gun-ban.
It is the illegal guns that would have to be confiscated to make ANY difference IF there ever WAS a gun-ban.

I study both sides and watch people like you with big !!!!!!!!

"So if we ban guns only criminals will have guns" The concept of needing guns to protect yourself from people with guns isn't exactly a good argument on this topic.

And most people on the Left don't want to ban guns. The Right just prey on weak minded idiots to get emotionally driven about bias subjects. I think you might be surprised at how many "leftists" would take a stance if they tried to ban all guns. But I'm sure you watched Australia ban all guns back when their Conservative president didn't ban all guns.

 

[Missourian]

There is no question that there are controls over guns. The term "gun control" is such a broad issue that it has become a cliche. The dirty little secret of course is to substitute the word "confiscation" for "control" and that's the agenda of the low information often hypocritical left.

We have 32,000 gun deaths a year. Clearly, we don't have enough control over guns.

How many of those are suicides?

How many are justified?

Last estimate I heard was 8,000 criminal homicides.

Sure, that sounds like a lot...but there are 330 million citizens in this country, and there are 270 million guns.

Sounds like the vast majority of gun owners are controlling themselves.

There is no question that there are controls over guns. The term "gun control" is such a broad issue that it has become a cliche. The dirty little secret of course is to substitute the word "confiscation" for "control" and that's the agenda of the low information often hypocritical left.

We have 32,000 gun deaths a year. Clearly, we don't have enough control over guns.

So .00009% of the population

And some of those are suicides and suicides don't count
Some of those are people killed by cops and that doesn't count

If you want to worry about what's killing people you need to start worrying about heart disease , cancer and obesity.

You are taking kind of a stupid stance on the topic. "So what that is only 32k deaths per year"

I haven't even studied if that number is true yet but to write that off as a statistic is idiotic.

Again. Not saying you are Right or wrong. But justification of 32k deaths is bad, mkay.

It's the old gun grabber trick of grouping suicides in with homicides.

Taking away a gun isn't going to stop a suicide. A background check isn't going to stop a suicide. People who want to kill themselves are going to find a way to do it. When they banned guns in the U.K., the firearm suicide rate went down, but the overall suicide rate went UP. Folks substituted carbon monoxide poisoning (sucking down auto exhaust), leaping from high places and hanging.

Since suicides aren't going to be deterred by gun control, it's not logical to include the total in the stats...but gun grabbers do it to pad the numbers as a way to bolster their feeble case.

The real number is about 8,000 homicides in 2012. To put that number into perspective:

Even more significantly, the medical system has played a large role in undermining the health of Americans. According to several research studies in the last decade, a total of 225,000 Americans per year have died as a result of their medical treatments:

• 12,000 deaths per year due to unnecessary surgery

• 7000 deaths per year due to medication errors in hospitals

• 20,000 deaths per year due to other errors in hospitals

• 80,000 deaths per year due to infections in hospitals

• 106,000 deaths per year due to negative effects of drugs

Doctors are the Third Leading Cause of Death​

 

[Geaux4it]

Yep, and 38% of homicides are committed by 12% of the population

Clearly, this is a cultural issue, not that of a gun

-Geaux

 

[skookerasbil]

Then don't focus on the gun...focus on telling people to get help, and tell people that no matter how bad things are they can get help......people who want to die, will...those other countries prove it....work on the people, not the method...

Why not work on both? frankly, most problems have m ultiple causes and require multiple solutions.

You see, my big problem with you gun fetishists is that you really don't care how much carnage your fetish causes. You claim gun ownership is a "right", when it should be a privilege only accorded to those who are responsible. Which is how most of the rest of the world treats it.

Yo............take a gander over the last few pages s0n..................


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[JoeB131]

How can you say we don't care....we are the ones promoting gun safety....we care about people being preyed on by criminals. It is you assholes...who know that criminals with or without guns will attack innocent people....yet you want the innocent people unarmed, and victims......guns stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 1.6 million times a year.....and yet you don't want those people saved.....you want them raped, robb d, beaten and murdered... All because you have the phobia Bout guns.......

Douchebag, Defensive gun use is a myth. Of the 32,000 gun deaths we have a year, only 200 are classified as self-defense homicides. Gun or no gun, the criminal always has the advantage in that he picks the time and place of when he attacks. The gun owner is usually caught unaware.

But the NRA doesn't want stupid people like you to know this. This is why when Kellerman determined that a gun in the house is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy, the NRA stopped all funding to gun studies.

If only the Cigarette makers had thought of that.

You guys come up with laws that don't stop gun crime, but only attack regular people owning guns....and then you expect us to take you seriously...

Guy, restrictive gun laws work fine in Japan, the UK, Canada, Italy, France, Germany. They have very little crime because you don't have guns enabling criminals to be criminals.

Only in the US do you have the National Rampage Association fighting very hard to keep guns in the hands of crooks and crazy people, so that people like you with tiny dicks are scared out of your wits and want to have more guns.

 

[2aguy]

How can you say we don't care....we are the ones promoting gun safety....we care about people being preyed on by criminals. It is you assholes...who know that criminals with or without guns will attack innocent people....yet you want the innocent people unarmed, and victims......guns stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives 1.6 million times a year.....and yet you don't want those people saved.....you want them raped, robb d, beaten and murdered... All because you have the phobia Bout guns.......

Douchebag, Defensive gun use is a myth. Of the 32,000 gun deaths we have a year, only 200 are classified as self-defense homicides. Gun or no gun, the criminal always has the advantage in that he picks the time and place of when he attacks. The gun owner is usually caught unaware.

But the NRA doesn't want stupid people like you to know this. This is why when Kellerman determined that a gun in the house is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy, the NRA stopped all funding to gun studies.

If only the Cigarette makers had thought of that.

You guys come up with laws that don't stop gun crime, but only attack regular people owning guns....and then you expect us to take you seriously...

Guy, restrictive gun laws work fine in Japan, the UK, Canada, Italy, France, Germany. They have very little crime because you don't have guns enabling criminals to be criminals.

Only in the US do you have the National Rampage Association fighting very hard to keep guns in the hands of crooks and crazy people, so that people like you with tiny dicks are scared out of your wits and want to have more guns.

Asshole....defensive gun use is not a myth.....you number 200 is actually 238 by the way, and most defensive gun uses don't involve shooting and killing people....it is only in your moronic fevered dreams that normal, law abiding, honest American Citizens can't wait to kill a criminal........in 54% of times that a gun is used to stop, prevent and or save a life, no shots are fired at all, they just show or draw the gun and hold the asshole for police, and when they do shoot they hit and injure the attacker...guns are not death rays moron.....so what don't you understand about normal people not killing criminals in defensive gun uses

1) normal people don't want to kill anyone, they want to be left alone so when confronted, they use enough threat, or force to stop the attack...and that is it....

2) most criminals don't want to be shot or arrested, and when confronted with an armed victim....they run.....

and if you actually did the research, guns are the tool that enable victims to fight back with the least amount of harm to the victim.....actual research shows this...and no...criminals don't have the advantage even with surprise.....research also shows this...in fact, it is more likely the criminal will be disarmed by the victim...the victim has a lot more incentive to fight for their life than the criminal has to press the attack, and possibly be shot or captured.....research shows this......not your fevered imagination

Joe...people study this stuff, intensely because lives depend on guns and people want to know all about how they are used....they don't just make shit up like you gun grabbers....

Japan is a police state, criminals in Europe get guns as easily as our criminals do but they don't use them because of cultural differences...you know the kind of cultural differences you prattle on about to say Japan's suicide rate is because of culture.....criminals and terrorists in Britain, Australia, Canada, Denmark, Sweden and Belgium get the guns they want and need and they all have far more restrictive gun laws than we do...and they still get those guns...and hand grenades and rocket propelled grenades and fully automatic rifles....in fact, they get far more fully automatic weapons than our criminals do....

And Puerto Rico.....an Island nation has stricter gun control laws that we do.....and it is an island...which means, moron, you can't just drive across a border to get a gun and drive back.....and their gun murder rate is the highest in the world....according to left wing VICE t.v.

And Britain has 2 times the violent crime that we have after their gun confiscation program......

And as to culture in Europe....even before their gun control programs their gun murder rate was way below ours....so turning in their guns didn't fix anything....it was already extremely low......because of culture....

you twit......

And again....you morons push for universal background checks........current background checks are easily and routinely bypassed by criminals by stealing guns or getting people who can pass background checks to buy the guns...and those methods will bypass Universal background checks the minute they begin.....

so moron...your new, extra spiffy background checks won't work either....


Gun registration....didn't help Canada and they dropped them.....and they didn't even register handguns, just long guns and it didn't help with crime either....criminals don't register stolen guns or guns bought illegally.....

moron....

 

[2aguy]

and again.....kellerman lied about how he computed..."in the home" and who an acquaintance was....two rival gang members know each other but that is not what anyone believe counts as family members....

These lies in studies are why you assholes cannot be trusted....ever..........the truth does not support you, so you have to cook the books on your anti-gun nut studies....reality stymies your anti-gun nuttery, so you have to hope for mass shootings to get dead bodies to drag in front of your anti gun allies in the press....

Your phobia about guns, based on your dislike of people, has made you morons deranged....

 

[JoeB131]

Asshole....defensive gun use is not a myth.....you number 200 is actually 238 by the way, and most defensive gun uses don't involve shooting and killing people....

That's why your claims on it aren't credible.

It's simply impossible to beleive that you guys with your guns fetishes can show that much restraint. Not the way you all cheered Zimmerman like he won the Superbowl or something.

1) normal people don't want to kill anyone, they want to be left alone so when confronted, they use enough threat, or force to stop the attack...and that is it....

But most of you gun fetishists aren't "normal". That's the point.

And Britain has 2 times the violent crime that we have after their gun confiscation program......

No, they don't. The British count crime differently than we do. Their Murder rate is only one sixth what ours is.

 

[JoeB131]

and again.....kellerman lied about how he computed..."in the home" and who an acquaintance was....two rival gang members know each other but that is not what anyone believe counts as family members....

Actually, there were very few murders in Kellerman's study. Kellerman's study found that for every bad guy killed with a gun, there were 39 suicides, 3.5 murders and .5 accidents against residents in the home.

Trying to dismiss all the homicides as "gang members" like that makes it okay is kind of disingenous.

 

[2aguy]

and again.....kellerman lied about how he computed..."in the home" and who an acquaintance was....two rival gang members know each other but that is not what anyone believe counts as family members....

Actually, there were very few murders in Kellerman's study. Kellerman's study found that for every bad guy killed with a gun, there were 39 suicides, 3.5 murders and .5 accidents against residents in the home.

Trying to dismiss all the homicides as "gang members" like that makes it okay is kind of disingenous.

Never said it was okay, I am pointing out that kellerman used rival gang members shooting at each other to represent gun violence in the home......and suicides don't count...and accidents happen more with males anyway...and as other researchers pointed out alcohol and drug abuse and a criminal past have more bearing on gun violence in the home than the gun itself.......

 

[JoeB131]

Never said it was okay, I am pointing out that kellerman used rival gang members shooting at each other to represent gun violence in the home......and suicides don't count...and accidents happen more with males anyway...and as other researchers pointed out alcohol and drug abuse and a criminal past have more bearing on gun violence in the home than the gun itself.......

Well, no, there would be no gun violence if there werent' guns.

That's the point.

There is no good reason for you to have a gun. You simply do not need one.

You might WANT a gun. but you don't need a gun.

 

[2aguy]

Asshole....defensive gun use is not a myth.....you number 200 is actually 238 by the way, and most defensive gun uses don't involve shooting and killing people....

That's why your claims on it aren't credible.

It's simply impossible to beleive that you guys with your guns fetishes can show that much restraint. Not the way you all cheered Zimmerman like he won the Superbowl or something.

1) normal people don't want to kill anyone, they want to be left alone so when confronted, they use enough threat, or force to stop the attack...and that is it....

But most of you gun fetishists aren't "normal". That's the point.

And Britain has 2 times the violent crime that we have after their gun confiscation program......

No, they don't. The British count crime differently than we do. Their Murder rate is only one sixth what ours is.

And it was 1/6 before they banned their guns......and no matter how differently they count their crime it still comes out to be 2 times as violent as our crime rate....

No one cheered zimmerman killing martin...we smelled a rat right away especially when the anti gunners in the democrat controlled press came up with "White Hispanic" when they found out that Zimmerman was latino and not aryan.......

and just looking at the gabby giffords shooting....2 concealed carriers on the scene of the shooting, neither one of them fired a shot because the guy was already under control.....

Normal people show incredible restraint....why...because they are normal people and they don't have impulse control issues....on top of the fact they really have no interest in killing someone unless they absolutely have to....

only in your most fevered dreams and imagination are gun owners just waiting to kill a criminal......that's on you, and it doesn't reflect reality.....

 

[2aguy]

Never said it was okay, I am pointing out that kellerman used rival gang members shooting at each other to represent gun violence in the home......and suicides don't count...and accidents happen more with males anyway...and as other researchers pointed out alcohol and drug abuse and a criminal past have more bearing on gun violence in the home than the gun itself.......

Well, no, there would be no gun violence if there werent' guns.

That's the point.

There is no good reason for you to have a gun. You simply do not need one.

You might WANT a gun. but you don't need a gun.

If there were no guns you would have violence of all the other kind....as you have in Britain.......and again...you anti gunners don't understand history....we had a long period of time with no guns on the entire planet....and people killed each other with swords, knives axes and arrows and clubs....in massive numbers....only at that time the physically weak had no way to defend themselves....and were murdered or turned into slaves of the stronger people.......

Read some history....learn something...guns allowed weaker, less aggressive people to stop stronger more evil people......that is how you get peace......

 

[JoeB131]

And it was 1/6 before they banned their guns......and no matter how differently they count their crime it still comes out to be 2 times as violent as our crime rate....

No one cheered zimmerman killing martin...we smelled a rat right away especially when the anti gunners in the democrat controlled press came up with "White Hispanic" when they found out that Zimmerman was latino and not aryan.......

Are you kidding, there are still people cheering that ZImmerman slaughtered this child.

and just looking at the gabby giffords shooting....2 concealed carriers on the scene of the shooting, neither one of them fired a shot because the guy was already under control.....

One of them almost shot a bystander, but you guys like to leave that out.

only in your most fevered dreams and imagination are gun owners just waiting to kill a criminal......that's on you, and it doesn't reflect reality.....

32,000 gun deaths and 78,000 gun injuries every year. Frankly, you guys need to show MORE restraint, not less.

 

[JoeB131]

If there were no guns you would have violence of all the other kind....as you have in Britain.......and again...you anti gunners don't understand history....we had a long period of time with no guns on the entire planet....and people killed each other with swords, knives axes and arrows and clubs....in massive numbers....only at that time the physically weak had no way to defend themselves....and were murdered or turned into slaves of the stronger people.......

Read some history....learn something...guns allowed weaker, less aggressive people to stop stronger more evil people......that is how you get peace......

Not really guy. The worst slaughters of human history happened in the modern era with - wait for it - FIREARMS.

 

[2aguy]

Never said it was okay, I am pointing out that kellerman used rival gang members shooting at each other to represent gun violence in the home......and suicides don't count...and accidents happen more with males anyway...and as other researchers pointed out alcohol and drug abuse and a criminal past have more bearing on gun violence in the home than the gun itself.......

Well, no, there would be no gun violence if there werent' guns.

That's the point.

There is no good reason for you to have a gun. You simply do not need one.

You might WANT a gun. but you don't need a gun.

Joe....you are clueless....

When it comes to gun grabbers, if you are given the choice of the woman who was raped in Colorado 50 ft from the campus police station....

She was raped, and two other women were raped and the last one was murdered during the rape, the woman who was raped in the college parking lot had a concealed carry permit but had to leave her gun at home because the campus was a gun free zone.......

Of two choices....allowing the first woman to carry a gun and stop the rape.....or taking that gun away from her...as happened, and allowing 3 women to get raped and the last woman to also be murdered by the same man (that we know of, we don't know how many women he raped and how many he may have murdered and we don't know about)...

You morons would prefer the rapes and the murder over the first woman using a gun to stop the guy....

You guys are the problem....you are phobic about guns to the point you prefer rape and murder of innocents over stopping an attacker with a gun.......you guys need help.....

 

[2aguy]

If there were no guns you would have violence of all the other kind....as you have in Britain.......and again...you anti gunners don't understand history....we had a long period of time with no guns on the entire planet....and people killed each other with swords, knives axes and arrows and clubs....in massive numbers....only at that time the physically weak had no way to defend themselves....and were murdered or turned into slaves of the stronger people.......

Read some history....learn something...guns allowed weaker, less aggressive people to stop stronger more evil people......that is how you get peace......

Not really guy. The worst slaughters of human history happened in the modern era with - wait for it - FIREARMS.

And the worst slaughters in history were stopped with guns too....the nazis didn't shut down their camps, they were stopped by good guys with guns.......

and again......with no guns in the world, people still slaughtered each other.......the physically strong slaughtered and enslaved the weak.......that changed with guns.....

 

[JoeB131]

Joe....you are clueless....

When it comes to gun grabbers, if you are given the choice of the woman who was raped in Colorado 50 ft from the campus police station....

She was raped, and two other women were raped and the last one was murdered during the rape, the woman who was raped in the college parking lot had a concealed carry permit but had to leave her gun at home because the campus was a gun free zone.......

Yeah, guy, she could be like the woman who was shot by the gun she bought for protection.

Woman kills self with gun bought for Ferguson unrest report - NY Daily News