Zone1 Why dont Jews believe Jesus is their messiah?

[buttercup]

Sure, he is expressing his position, that's fine. Jesus cannot be the Messiah if he didn't fullfill the book. You cannot square that circle.

I have a feeling you missed the last part of post #78 which was my words... underneath the quote from CS Lewis. I just added some dividing lines there to make it more clear. But it's late and I gotta go now, so... Good night, all!

 

[irosie91]

Many could be listed,.including eating habits. Im not sure how familiar you are with the New Testament but it was covered in the Book of Mark. This included he and his deciples not.washing their hands before eating, nor requiring that food be Kosher per se. Basically "all food is clean", I presume this means even pork etc. His interpretation of the Golden Rule as it is coined is also different from the Talmud which I addressed here in e past.. There are many more examples

I am very familiar with the NT----in fact I read it long before I read the OT----I grew up in a very christian town---old ladies HANDED out little pocket sized copies of the NT and I was an AVID reader without much to read. You are not quite as familiar as am I. Jesus was a guest in the home of another jew when he refused to wash his hands. -----I do not remember his followers being with him like a MASS PROTEST. ----to make it short----I do not believe that idiot story at all. NOT WASHING HANDS in the home of a host would be the HEIGHT of rude and uncivilized behavior-----even today.----but there is history-----the incessant HAND WASHING with which jews interrupted ROMAN bacchanals did annoy Romans.----<<< historic fact---and later on "HANDWASHING" was considered a CLUE that fake converts to christianity were JUDAIZING.----as noted by the authorities of the Catholic Church. Jesus never mentioned eating pork----that came from the HELLENIZER, PAUL----that convert to Judaism who never met Jesus. Sometimes I have guests from Israel including teens who are not into religion at all-----but they are mostly of the MIZRACHI group---like my hubby----they are SO TRAINED from infancy to WASH THEIR HANDS-----that I make sure to have lots of little towels around----it's CULTURAL. -----and then there was the NICEAN COUNCIL

 

[irosie91]

^^ LOL there we have it, the “Jew” comes clean about how she really feels about Christians. “Vile filth”.

And of course Jews are the super wise, intelligent, and moral ones. They brought us wonderful things like Marxism and communism. They run the entire corrupt media in the West. The entire porn industry is run by Jews. But if you dare criticize them, you’re an “anti-Semite” and they’re the victim!

try again----I noted the HISTORICAL REALITY of that which christianity has WRECKED upon the world-----not only UPON
jews. The pope felt a need to apologize for the filth of the
catholic church in North America-----REMEMBER?

 

[Lisa558]

Where did you come across that information? I have never heard that.

EMH is a horrible antisemite. Don’t believe a word he says.

Also, you will note he speaks of condemnation of Jews during Jesus’ time as if they were all part of it. There were 5 million Jews in the world at the time, and perhaps a couple hundred ever even heard of Jesus.

Yet, sadly and tragically, Christians have used the SUPPOSED actions of perhaps 0.001% of Jews at the time to condemn ALL Jews, for ALL generations, for ALL time - simply out of anger that some 1st century Jews would not abandon the teachings of their religion and “believe” Jesus was the son of Gd.

 

[Lisa558]

I am very familiar with the NT----in fact I read it long before I read the OT----I grew up in a very christian town---old ladies HANDED out little pocket sized copies of the NT and I was an AVID reader without much to read. You are not quite as familiar as am I. Jesus was a guest in the home of another jew when he refused to wash his hands. -----I do not remember his followers being with him like a MASS PROTEST. ----to make it short----I do not believe that idiot story at all. NOT WASHING HANDS in the home of a host would be the HEIGHT of rude and uncivilized behavior-----even today.----but there is history-----the incessant HAND WASHING with which jews interrupted ROMAN bacchanals did annoy Romans.----<<< historic fact---and later on "HANDWASHING" was considered a CLUE that fake converts to christianity were JUDAIZING.----as noted by the authorities of the Catholic Church. Jesus never mentioned eating pork----that came from the HELLENIZER, PAUL----that convert to Judaism who never met Jesus. Sometimes I have guests from Israel including teens who are not into religion at all-----but they are mostly of the MIZRACHI group---like my hubby----they are SO TRAINED from infancy to WASH THEIR HANDS-----that I make sure to have lots of little towels around----it's CULTURAL. -----and then there was the NICEAN COUNCIL

For clarification, I beleive you mean wash their hands before eating?

 

[Lisa558]

I don't think Jews hold any affection for Christians.

I havr affection for my Christian friends, but of course they have respect for my religion and my practice of it.

I admit I have been fooled, though. Once I was having dinner with a Christian friend, and she slipped and referred to someone as a “k.” I was shocked, and I never saw her again - my choice.

 

[Lisa558]

I have asked that question on this forum and never gotten a serious reply (e.g., "we don't think about him"). Historically, he was real person who was born a Jew and who preached to Jewish people. He may not have conformed to the Jewish conception of a messiah, but was he also not a Jewish teacher, rabbi or prophet?

Jesus was neither a rabbi or prophet, but one could say he was a teacher of sorts. Most of his teachings were of traditional Jewish laws and values, but he did deviate from some.

Is the claim that he was the Son of Man/God enough to oppose all of his teachings and/or deny his existence? What "conflicting data" do you have, and WHAT QUESTIONS ARE YOU ASKING?
.

I know of NO Jew who opposes his existence. Nor do they oppose most of his teachings. In fact, we believe that Paul, along with others, put a “spin” on things Jesus said that he did not intend.

The fact is that there were hundreds of Jesus-type people giving sermons to bands of followers.

 

[irosie91]

Where did you come across that information? I have never heard that.

it's historic revisionism uses as EXPLANATION for the imaginary
jewish hatred for Jesus. In fact there is no history of "jewish hatred" for Jesus -----there is plenty of history of Jewish hatred for many OTHER players in that story----including Pontius Pilate, Caiaphas and even "the money changers in the temple courtyard". Based on real history---jews at that time hated the same people that Jesus hated. They didn't like the murderer of the cousin of
Jesus, JOHN the mikveh man, to wit HEROD ---either. They were
entirely opposed to Crucifixion

 

[irosie91]

For clarification, I beleive you mean wash their hands before eating?

that ^^^ is an absolute---but some of those Mizrahis even
wash their hands when they ARRIVE from outside

 

[Lisa558]

Many Jews did believe in Jesus, they become the first Christians.

If you’ve read the Bible, you’d know that majority of Israel breaks faith with God and failed to follow his commandments time and time again. Why would it be any different with the Messiah? During the time of Moses, they witnessed God and the Angel of God (the Son) perform great miracles to get them out of Egypt and afterwords as well. Yet they still grumbled against Moses and complained. They still made a false idol at the footsteps of Mt. Sinai.

Is it really that hard to believe most Jews would not know God or understand the prophecies?


Jews today totally disregard the Tanakh and make up excuses for the many passages that clearly point to Jesus.

Conversely, I COULD say that Christians today make up excuses for the many passages in the Old Testament that show that Jesus did not meet the requirements of the messiah.

But that would be disrespectful.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

"the next age...." ? in the twilight zone? So how does that make
him a "messiah"----Isaiah made the same claim----very poetically

The Bible speaks of THREE AGES
The Age (World) before the Flood
This Present Evil Age
The World Tomorrow

 

[ding]

But that would be disrespectful.

Not necessarily. I think in debates of differences, it's how one goes about it that makes it respectful or disrespectful. It is possible for honest persons to have honest differences of opinions.

 

[Lisa558]

According to GAWD---the Messiah is a human----not a "GOD" ---like HERCULES. ----or Zeus. Stick to your studies on MOUNT OLYMPUS

Absolutely. To view Jesus (or anyone) as a deity is a violation of the KEY tenet of Judaism.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

jews at that time hated the same people that Jesus hated

Jesus hated no one. YOU OTOH.......

 

[Lisa558]

" Jesus was a gentle human being and a great presenter of many of the tenets of the Torah, but he waivered from the original text."
really??----from which text did he waiver?

The only one I know of is his “guidance” that all foods are available to Jews.

Of course - just between us girls - it is likely that Jesus did not intend this, but that Paul used the “no more kosher!” bit as a way to attract Jews to the new Christianity. (IOW, make it easier to be a Christian than a Jew.)

 

[Lisa558]

Not necessarily. I think in debates of differences, it's how one goes about it that makes it respectful or disrespectful. It is possible for honest persons to have honest differences of opinions.

OK….. I will try, but just watch the antisemitic Christians come after me with insults and disdain.

Jews do not believe Jesus was the Messiah because he did not fulfill the prophesies - that he would be a human being, that there would be no more wars, that he would be the leader of a kingdom, that the Temple would be rebuilt, etc.

Why Jews Are Not For Jesus - Tablet Magazine

As we approach Yom Kippur, Rabbi Joseph Telushkin—author of the Nextbook Press’s Hillel: If Not Now, When?—answers questions submitted by Tablet Magazine readers. I am a conservative Christian. I’ve come to realize that I do not know why the Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I...

www.tabletmag.com

 

[irosie91]

The Bible speaks of THREE AGES
The Age (World) before the Flood
This Present Evil Age
The World Tomorrow

so? does the bible look like a OUIJA board to you?

 

[Meriweather]

Jews do not believe Jesus was the Messiah because he did not fulfill the prophesies

I have a question that I truly do not mean to be offensive, but rather is puzzling and bewildering to me. In Judaism, if a prophecy is not fulfilled in a certain/reasonable amount of time, it was considered to be a false/mistaken prophecy. The Jewish prophecy of a human, earthly king was made over 2,500 years ago. Daniel's prophecy of this king was 70 weeks, also calculated as 483 or 490 years. Daniel lived about a half-century before our current dating system, a time when Jews were clearly expecting the Messiah. They were even pointing out that Herod's rebuilding of the second temple (making it the third temple) was a sign.

Again, I have no wish to put you (especially)--or anyone of the Jewish faith--on the spot. It's just something I keep wondering about.

 

[irosie91]

I have a question that I truly do not mean to be offensive, but rather is puzzling and bewildering to me. In Judaism, if a prophecy is not fulfilled in a certain/reasonable amount of time, it was considered to be a false/mistaken prophecy. The Jewish prophecy of a human, earthly king was made over 2,500 years ago. Daniel's prophecy of this king was 70 weeks, also calculated as 483 or 490 years. Daniel lived about a half-century before our current dating system, a time when Jews were clearly expecting the Messiah. They were even pointing out that Herod's rebuilding of the second temple (making it the third temple) was a sign.

Again, I have no wish to put you (especially)--or anyone of the Jewish faith--on the spot. It's just something I keep wondering about.

In fact----PROPHECY is not an acceptable science in Judaism
AT ALL----nor is necromancy. You could consider it more like a
GOAL----and now to get mystical---a goal in which people and G-D are both, together, engaged in fulfilling ----that's TIKKUN

 

[irosie91]

Jesus hated no one. YOU OTOH.......

oh---not even the money changers in the temple courtyard?---
He just liked to PICK FIGHTS?