Why doesn't meat help meat eaters be healthy?

[Woodznutz]

WOW. Where to even begin with this!

Are you now actually claiming that God WANTS sin and needless death???

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Of course we're living in a fallen world, I have stated that repeatedly in discussions like this. Of course we're living in an age where there is sin and death. No Christian here has denied that.

But every day we can make CHOICES. You're making it sound like because this is an age of "sin and death" that means we have to go along with what this fallen world does. The exact OPPOSITE is true! As CarlinAnnArbor already stated, we are not called to be of this world, we are called OUT of this world!

So we can choose, and God made it crystal clear what He wants us to choose:

"Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."​

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Luke 6:36​

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.​

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Micah 6:8​

For I desire mercy and not sacrifice,​

And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.​

Hosea 6:6​

Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with a heart of mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience​

​

Colossians 3:12​

And here's a very important scripture that I really hope you read and think about. Please read this and let it sink in. These are Jesus words, this is what JESUS wants us to want and pray for:

May your Kingdom come, may your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.​

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Matthew 6:10​

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So as Christians we are supposed to want and pray for God's perfect will. Contrary to what you implied, we are not supposed to just throw our arms up in the air and give in to the ways of this fallen world, just because we're living in a fallen world.

God's perfect will is already made clear in both the beginning, in the pre-fall world, where there was no killing, no violence, no flesh eating. Both humans AND animals were herbivores (Genesis 1:29-30)....

.... AND also in the prophetic scriptures about the future, when Jesus returns, when God restores that initial beautiful world of peace and harmony that was HIS intent and desire in the first place.

So since we know God's perfect will, I'm going to post Jesus' words again for you. Please read this again, in light of what God's perfect will is in regard to how humans should relate to animals:

May your Kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. ​

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Matthew 6:10​

So getting back to your comment "This age was created by God for sin and death." Obviously this age IS full of sin and death, yes. Are you supposed to embrace sin, death and the cruel habits of this world? Yes or no?

With all due respect to your emotion driven opinion it was God who killed the first animal and pronounced a curse on all the rest. He then required animal sacrifices up to and including the days of Jesus.

This age of sin and death is nothing compared to past ages. It is the next step in God's plan of redemption and restoration of his fallen kingdom.

There is nothing in 'God's will' that forbids the eating of flesh.

You are basing your entire plea to dismantle the entire global meat producing industry and way of life of billions of people on the supposed cruelty at the point of death of these animals, which is measured in seconds.

 

[Woodznutz]

I am on the Carnivore/Keto diet. Have been for almost two years. I no longer have to take my blood pressure medicine, my cholesterol is normal now, I have no more swelling in my ankles. I'm 67 and haven't been this healthy in decades.

Love it! As one gets older protein is even more crucial for maintaining muscle. Meat is an excellent source.

I'm 83, in very good health, still working a physical job, blood pressure normalized after I stopped taking BP meds, don't care about my cholesterol numbers. I consume lots of animal protein, meat, milk, cheese, eggs, fish, and venison if I luck out.

 

[Woodznutz]

.

 

[BothWings]

Yeah, all meat eaters are "disgusting" like you described! (<--- sarcasm)

The vast majority of people I know who eat meat as PART of their diet aren't at all!
Methinks you are completely missing that such things are often VERY genetic.
Whether you deliberately ignore the fact to support your narrative or really ARE that ignorant might be up for debate, however.

 

[buttercup]

With all due respect to your emotion driven opinion it was God who killed the first animal and pronounced a curse on all the rest. He then required animal sacrifices up to and including the days of Jesus.

This age of sin and death is nothing compared to past ages. It is the next step in God's plan of redemption and restoration of his fallen kingdom.

There is nothing in 'God's will' that forbids the eating of flesh.

Nope, that's demonstrably false. It's not my 'opinion' that God commands us to be merciful. It's not my 'opinion' that God's perfect will is peace and harmony, not needless bloodshed, exploitation and cruelty. My statements here to you I've backed up scripturally. You're the one who is being led by your own opinion and self-serving desires, putting that above all else, including God's true intent and perfect will.

You're trying so hard to justify your position that you're even willing to misrepresent the very heart of God, which is LOVE. Not callousness, selfishness and brutality.

Also, I have 2 things to say in response to your statement that God "killed the first animal." First of all, if you're talking about Genesis 3, nowhere in the text does it say that God killed an animal. You are adding to the text. Even non-vegan Christian websites state that:

The death of an animal is never mentioned.​

A lamb is never mentioned.​

Substitutionary atonement isn’t even inferred.​

​

Did God Perform the First Sacrifice in Genesis 3:21?

Many believe that Genesis 3:21 teaches that God performed the first sacrifice when he made tunics of skin for Adam and Eve. But is this correct?

redeeminggod.com

​

Secondly, even if that WERE true (which I'm not saying it is, because again it's not what the text says) God - as the ultimate authority - has the right to take any life, as He sees fit. So for you to try to use that as an excuse to NEEDLESSLY kill animals in this day and age is not only wrong, but it's horribly wrong. Why? Because you are trying to paint God into YOUR image instead of the other way around. You don't care about animals, so you try to portray God as a callous God who doesn't care about animals. That is simply FALSE. And frankly, it's borderline blasphemous.

As for the last thing you said, again, demonstrably false. You are flatly ignoring God's perfect will, which I already stated a few times is made clear in both the pre-fall world and the prophetic scriptures about the future. Since God's perfect will is NO KILLING, no cruelty, no selfish exploitation and needless violence, then OBVIOUSLY that would preclude needlessly preying upon the most innocent and vulnerable among us.

Just face it, you don't want to give up eating flesh, you seem to not want to grow as a Christian or be fully surrendered. We are told to be living sacrifices (Romans 12:1) that means we don't live life the way everyone else in the world does.... we are supposed to do all things in love (1 Cor 16:14), "not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of others." (Phil 2:4)

If you disagree with those commands and exhortations, then it's not me you're disagreeing with, because all those teachings (love, mercy, selflessness, peace, etc) are straight from God. And we're supposed to be made in HIS image, not the other way around.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Typical callous hypocrite with no regard for life. ^^^

Scat for brains

 

[Unkotare]

Typical callous hypocrite with no regard for life. ^^^

.

 

[BothWings]

Furthermore, my grandfather who died at 90 in '04 was bascially a "meat and potatoes" man all his life. He did eat other veggies too, but he liked his meat portions and it was part of every meal. Sausage or bacon with breakfast...hot open faced turkey sandwiches with gravy, burgers, steak, meatloaf, baked chicken, fried pork chops...all his favorites. He was able to pull along fairly efficiently until the end. Same with my grandmother. Lived to 89 and had the same diet as him, pretty much.

While I usually only eat meat as 1/3 or 1/4 or even less of a meal myself (I don't overindulge), I still think the OP is full of crap and/or or ignorant as hell. Not really sure what would prompt such a questionable narrative.

 

[Woodznutz]

Nope, that's demonstrably false. It's not my 'opinion' that God commands us to be merciful. It's not my 'opinion' that God's perfect will is peace and harmony, not needless bloodshed, exploitation and cruelty. My statements here to you I've backed up scripturally. You're the one who is being led by your own opinion and self-serving desires, putting that above all else, including God's true intent and perfect will.

You're trying so hard to justify your position that you're even willing to misrepresent the very heart of God, which is LOVE. Not callousness, selfishness and brutality.

Also, I have 2 things to say in response to your statement that God "killed the first animal." First of all, if you're talking about Genesis 3, nowhere in the text does it say that God killed an animal. You are adding to the text. Even non-vegan Christian websites state that:

The death of an animal is never mentioned.​

A lamb is never mentioned.​

Substitutionary atonement isn’t even inferred.​

​

Did God Perform the First Sacrifice in Genesis 3:21?

Many believe that Genesis 3:21 teaches that God performed the first sacrifice when he made tunics of skin for Adam and Eve. But is this correct?

redeeminggod.com

​

Secondly, even if that WERE true (which I'm not saying it is, because again it's not what the text says) God - as the ultimate authority - has the right to take any life, as He sees fit. So for you to try to use that as an excuse to NEEDLESSLY kill animals in this day and age is not only wrong, but it's horribly wrong. Why? Because you are trying to paint God into YOUR image instead of the other way around. You don't care about animals, so you try to portray God as a callous God who doesn't care about animals. That is simply FALSE. And frankly, it's borderline blasphemous.

As for the last thing you said, again, demonstrably false. You are flatly ignoring God's perfect will, which I already stated a few times is made clear in both the pre-fall world and the prophetic scriptures about the future. Since God's perfect will is NO KILLING, no cruelty, no selfish exploitation and needless violence, then OBVIOUSLY that would preclude needlessly preying upon the most innocent and vulnerable among us.

Just face it, you don't want to give up eating flesh, you seem to not want to grow as a Christian or be fully surrendered. We are told to be living sacrifices (Romans 12:1) that means we don't live life the way everyone else in the world does.... we are supposed to do all things in love (1 Cor 16:14), "not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of others." (Phil 2:4)

If you disagree with those commands and exhortations, then it's not me you're disagreeing with, because all those teachings (love, mercy, selflessness, peace, etc) are straight from God. And we're supposed to be made in HIS image, not the other way around.

You have to diligently study God's word to understand it.

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

 

[Woodznutz]

​

Did God Perform the First Sacrifice in Genesis 3:21?

Many believe that Genesis 3:21 teaches that God performed the first sacrifice when he made tunics of skin for Adam and Eve. But is this correct?

redeeminggod.com

​

This is just silly. It's what happened subsequent to this event that explains it. The first part of the article explains it perfectly i.e., there was an actual lamb slain from the foundation of the (age).

The 'foundation of the age' didn't begin with the renewal of the surface of the earth, but with the sin of Eve and Adam.

 

[buttercup]

You have to study God's word to understand it.

I have. In both a formal and informal way. And I continue to study it, it's not a one-time thing.

If you can't refute anything I said in my previous post, then just say so, instead of coming back with nothing but an ad hominem.

 

[buttercup]

This is just silly. It's what happened subsequent to this event that explains it. The first part of the article explains it perfectly i.e., there was an actual lamb slain from the foundation of the (age).

The 'foundation of the age' didn't begin with the recreation of the surface of the earth, but with the sin of Eve and Adam.

The bottom line is that the text in Genesis 3 simply does not say that God killed an animal. You added that to the text.

And I don't want to repeat myself, but if you go back to my previous post, again, even if that WERE true, that is not a justification for YOU to pay for cruelty and abuse, when you don't have to. Sorry but there's really no way around that.

 

[Woodznutz]

I have. In both a formal and informal way. And I continue to study it, it's not a one-time thing.

If you can't refute anything I said in my previous post, then just say so, instead of coming back with nothing but an ad hominem.

Review my and your posts for ad hominems. I haven't leveled a single one at you, but you have lambasted me with them. It seems that your whole purpose here is to condemn others to hell who eat meat.

 

[Woodznutz]

The bottom line is that the text in Genesis 3 simply does not say that God killed an animal. You added that to the text.

And I don't want to repeat myself, but if you go back to my previous post, again, even if that WERE true, that is not a justification for YOU to pay for cruelty and abuse, when you don't have to. Sorry but there's really no way around that.

To understand God's word you must go beyond the literal text, and often into the Hebrew and Greek languages, as well as the secular history of the times, places, and cultures mentioned. You must also understand 'literary devices', of which the Bible overflows with.

 

[buttercup]

Review my and your posts for ad hominems. I haven't leveled a single one at you, but you have lambasted me with them. It seems that your whole purpose here is to condemn others to hell who eat meat.

An ad hominem is not limited to name-calling. It means instead of responding with an actual argument, you make it about the other person. You said "You have to study God's word to understand it" which is basically calling me biblically ignorant. And that's pretty arrogant considering that all my posts to you I've backed up scripturally and I've shown you from the BIBLE that God wants us to choose mercy, not needless violence and selfishness. So again, if you can refute what I've said, please do. But claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about is not an argument, it's basically just ad hominem.

 

[Woodznutz]

The bottom line is that the text in Genesis 3 simply does not say that God killed an animal. You added that to the text.

There were only three beings present (four if the serpent was still there). Who do you think killed the animal?

 

[Woodznutz]

An ad hominem is not limited to name-calling. It means instead of responding with an actual argument, you make it about the other person. You said "You have to study God's word to understand it" which is basically calling me biblically ignorant. And that's pretty arrogant considering that all my posts to you I've backed up scripturally and I've shown you from the BIBLE that God wants us to choose mercy, not needless violence and selfishness. So again, if you can refute what I've said, please do. But claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about is not an argument, it's basically just ad hominem.

I was encouraging you to seriously study the Bible, not criticizing you. But when you post links like that last one, I'm not so sure about your understanding.

 

[buttercup]

There were only three beings present (four if the serpent was still there). Who do you think killed the animal?

There are a number of different interpretations of that passage. But keep in mind, in the creation account, we can see that God spoke creation into existence. That is the precedent. So God doesn't have to do things the way WE do. You are reading that passage through your own (fallen) modern-day perspective.

I'm not going to go through all the different interpretations of that passage, because again, it doesn't matter anyway. God as the highest and ultimate authority has the right to take ANY life as He sees fit. So basically, you trying to use that passage as a justification is no different than pro-aborts saying "God kills babies through miscarriages" or "God killed millions of people in the flood" as if that is a justification for THEM to kill an innocent preborn baby. It's an invalid argument, for reasons I've already stated.

 

[Woodznutz]

There are a number of different interpretations of that passage. But keep in mind, in the creation account, we can see that God spoke creation into existence. That is the precedent. So God doesn't have to do things the way WE do. You are reading that passage through your own (fallen) modern-day perspective.

I'm not going to go through all the different interpretations of that passage, because again, it doesn't matter anyway. God as the highest and ultimate authority has the right to take ANY life as He sees fit. So basically, you trying to use that passage as a justification is no different than pro-aborts saying "God kills babies through miscarriages" or "God killed millions of people in the flood" as if that is a justification for THEM to kill an innocent preborn baby. It's an invalid argument, for reasons I've already stated.

I'm trying to educate you, not 'justify' my position.

There are scriptures with dubious meanings, but this isn't one of them.

 

[Woodznutz]

There are a number of different interpretations of that passage.

Like, it was a snakes skin?

I get the feeling that you are arguing for the sake of argument. You can't possibly believe all the things you are saying.