Why does God hide himself?

[Iceweasel]

Scientists do not rely on anecdotal stories to prove their case. I've "co-operated" since you think you are running the show. But if you have to rely on someone else's experience to prove god cares about you then you have failed miserably. You can't see how flawed that is so something else is going on. Drugs, hypnosis, brainwashing, etc. Something clearly is going on with you and it sure isn't objectivity.

How do you propose to prove anything about a supernatural being unless you use what has been created? You can't. All we have is what has happened since space and time was created which is a great deal of information and data.

"...a proxy or proxy variable is a variable that is not in itself directly relevant, but that serves in place of an unobservable or immeasurable variable.[1] In order for a variable to be a good proxy, it must have a close correlation, not necessarily linear, with the variable of interest. This correlation might be either positive or negative.

Proxy variable must relate to unobserved variable..."

I believe there is a god, said so in the begining but don't know if he cares or not. You claimed he did, your version was the correct one and all you've offered so far are insults and obfuscation so far. All religions use anecdotal evidence, they can't all be right.

Great. Wonderful. So what? This conversation isn't about God's existence. It is about whether or not we can find any evidence to support the assertion that God cares.

I did not insult you or obfuscate. In fact, I have been consistent and transparent in my intentions the whole time; which is to explain to you that we can answer that question by studying the things we do to see if we see similar things in what God has done. For instance:

1. When our children are young do we give them laws to keep them safe?
2. As the grow older do we allow them to make their own mistakes.
3. Do we allow them to suffer the consequences of their mistakes so that they can learn from them?
4. Do we offer feedback on their mistakes?
5. After offering feedback do we allow them to keep making the same mistakes until they have learned from them?

You've consistently ignored the point that you cannot know god. You can only believe you do. You keep implying the answers lay in a written work but you are relying on that for evidence. You are stuck in a circular logic loop. It's true because you believe it and you believe it because it's true. One must ASSUME you pet religion is true to give it any credibility to begin with.

I am requesting that you start your own thread please.

Are you sure the internets is for you? I answered your damn question dude. You don't want answers or you want to dictate them? The point is there is no answer to your question beyond believing what you want to. Find a belief you like, man up and stick with that.

 

[Iceweasel]

You can't see how stupid you sound. Hidden teachings above the grasp of people who do not think deeply? How is that attitude any different than a Moonie's? Or a Muslim's? All religions say that. You claim yours is the correct one but can't begin to support it.

Yes, hidden teachings above the grasp of people who do not think very deeply. No religion says that. The way that what I am saying is different from every other religion is that I am telling you to use you brain to decipher the figurative language used to even know what actually happened or what hard learned lessons of the past were taught and preserved and compelled into the future through those stories.

Does using your brain pose some difficulty for you? I am not telling you to accept anything by blind faith.

And WTF am I supposed to support? Its like you asking me to support the assertion that the story of the three pigs coveys a teaching not directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used.

Am I telling you something that you don't already know?

You should have known this since kindergarten.

Again, I am not insulting you or trying to trick you.

You are embarrassing yourself.

nd I was a Christian for over twenty years, studied faithfully, had a pretty decent library of aids, etc. Been there, done that. I know your type like the back of my hand.

I see, you made an imaginary friend with a mangod that doesn't correspond to any real living being ever in existence and as a consequence died a very very long time ago, got pissed once you realized you were schnookered and never got over it.

You climbed out of the pit only to get caught in a trap.

I know all about you but you know nothing about me....

What is wrong with you?

I can't force you to see what your doing is wrong, I can only ask you to stop. Please go start your own thread topic , I want to finish this one ;; please.

Unsubscribed. What a puss!

 

[ding]

You can't see how stupid you sound. Hidden teachings above the grasp of people who do not think deeply? How is that attitude any different than a Moonie's? Or a Muslim's? All religions say that. You claim yours is the correct one but can't begin to support it.

Yes, hidden teachings above the grasp of people who do not think very deeply. No religion says that. The way that what I am saying is different from every other religion is that I am telling you to use you brain to decipher the figurative language used to even know what actually happened or what hard learned lessons of the past were taught and preserved and compelled into the future through those stories.

Does using your brain pose some difficulty for you? I am not telling you to accept anything by blind faith.

And WTF am I supposed to support? Its like you asking me to support the assertion that the story of the three pigs coveys a teaching not directly connected to the literal meaning of the words used.

Am I telling you something that you don't already know?

You should have known this since kindergarten.

Again, I am not insulting you or trying to trick you.

You are embarrassing yourself.

nd I was a Christian for over twenty years, studied faithfully, had a pretty decent library of aids, etc. Been there, done that. I know your type like the back of my hand.

I see, you made an imaginary friend with a mangod that doesn't correspond to any real living being ever in existence and as a consequence died a very very long time ago, got pissed once you realized you were schnookered and never got over it.

You climbed out of the pit only to get caught in a trap.

I know all about you but you know nothing about me....

What is wrong with you?

I can't force you to see what your doing is wrong, I can only ask you to stop. Please go start your own thread topic , I want to finish this one ;; please.

Even though I am literally arguing that God does not hide Himself?

 

[Mickiel]

I would like to offer an apology to those interested in thread.

I don't like having to ask people to give the thread respect.

 

[Mickiel]

The thread topic is why does God hide himself; we have people here who do not hide the fact that they will high jack a thread with no regrets or respect , and think little of it. I am sorry that is a real thing we have to deal with but that is just how it is. I myself have never treated anyone's thread like that. I again offer apology.

God is , and he is quite something. God is bold and is withdrawn. You know , I wish he were not so withdrawn , but he is doing it , because he thinks its best for now. I wonder why?

 

[Mickiel]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

 

[ding]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God is right here. What are you talking about?

 

[keepitreal]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

 

[Mickiel]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

 

[Mickiel]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

 

[keepitreal]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

If you don't believe in free will then who is controlling you?

God is not on the earth but, His creations are.
We are the righteousness of God, through Christ
We either choose God's ways or the world's way.
That is where fellowship has no place in the darkness.

You cannot serve two masters
Living in the world doesn't mean
you have to be of the world.

Do not be conformed to this world
but, be transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that you may prove what is that good and acceptable
and perfect will of God

Romans 12:2

 

[keepitreal]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Hey, the last time God was on earth is when He became flesh
and died for you to bring us back into His presence

 

[yiostheoy]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Hey, the last time God was on earth is when He became flesh
and died for you to bring us back into His presence

Protestant myth. You are thinking of the Son Of God -- not God himself.

God himself stayed up in the clouds then both at Jesus' baptism and at the Mount Of Transfiguration with Peter, James, and John.

You need to read your New Testament more and stop listening to your lying Protestant minister.

 

[Mickiel]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Hey, the last time God was on earth is when He became flesh
and died for you to bring us back into His presence

In my view it was Jesus who became flesh and died , not God ; God cannot die. But hey, I already know there is a great gulf fixed between my understanding and the way Christians see things. I am not Christian.

 

[yiostheoy]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Even then God stayed up in the clouds on Mount Sinai.

But while he was in the Burning Bush he came down, yes, correct.

That burning bush was the last and only time.

Moses must have been one heck of an important guy -- the only human that God Himself every came down to visit on the ground personally.

Even Akmed Ali cannot say that -- he just claims to have spoken to an angel (or demon) calling itself Gabriel.

 

[yiostheoy]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Hey, the last time God was on earth is when He became flesh
and died for you to bring us back into His presence

In my view it was Jesus who became flesh and died , not God ; God cannot die. But hey, I already know there is a great gulf fixed between my understanding and the way Christians see things. I am not Christian.

Protestants fokk this up all the time, correct.

 

[yiostheoy]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

Exactly.

I have thought of this myself often as well.

God is the monarch of the Universe and many could complain about that as people often complain about everything.

So therefore God creates an Earth (maybe even billions of Earth's) and puts people on them (maybe even trillions upon trillions -- about 20 billion per Earth) and lets them do everything their way.

What happens then?

Capitalism -- slavery -- war -- murder -- rape -- robbery -- theft -- corruption -- starvation -- venereal disease and AIDS -- pedophilia -- spouse and child abuse -- etc.

Then when this mortal world is over, God collects up all the dead souls and introduces them to His own world run by Him.

The only problem with that philosophically is that humankind is still not important enough for God to worry about and so that arrives at a paradox that God does not care on the one hand but people tend to think God does care on the other.

Paradox.

Dilemma.

Contradiction.

In Philosophy, contradictions are presumed to be false.

 

[Mickiel]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

God does not leave us, we walk away from Him
He has given us free will so yeah, we are left to ourselves
He is longsuffering because He wants all to be saved

Greetings,
I do not believe in free will myself. But I agree that God wants all saved , and in my view he always gets what he wants. In my view , God is not on earth , and will not be for a while. God really has no fellowship with the earth , he has nothing in common with us. What fellowship has light with darkness? What does righteousness has to do with unrighteousness? 2 Corinth. 6:14.

Hey , Jesus is the only bridge that can cross humanity over to God.

Hey, the last time I think God came anywhere near earth , was when he gave Moses the law. I don't think has came since. And there are reasons.

Even then God stayed up in the clouds on Mount Sinai.

But while he was in the Burning Bush he came down, yes, correct.

That burning bush was the last and only time.

Moses must have been one heck of an important guy -- the only human that God Himself every came down to visit on the ground personally.

Even Akmed Ali cannot say that -- he just claims to have spoken to an angel (or demon) calling itself Gabriel.

Yes , Moses must have been important to God. I think God felt that way about Job as well.

 

[Mickiel]

God is withdrawn because he is waiting for the train to wreck; because he wants it to wreck. He wants the way of humanity to come to its climax , and then rub our ways into our faces. And he knows religion has helped set up this wreck. The best way God could show man his ways have their ending , is to leave us to ourselves.

Exactly.

I have thought of this myself often as well.

God is the monarch of the Universe and many could complain about that as people often complain about everything.

So therefore God creates an Earth (maybe even billions of Earth's) and puts people on them (maybe even trillions upon trillions -- about 20 billion per Earth) and lets them do everything their way.

What happens then?

Capitalism -- slavery -- war -- murder -- rape -- robbery -- theft -- corruption -- starvation -- venereal disease and AIDS -- pedophilia -- spouse and child abuse -- etc.

Then when this mortal world is over, God collects up all the dead souls and introduces them to His own world run by Him.

The only problem with that philosophically is that humankind is still not important enough to worry about and so that arrives at a paradox that God does not care on the one hand but people tend to think God does care on the other.

Paradox.

Dilemma.

Contradiction.

In Philosophy, contradictions are presumed to be false.

I agree with most of this. I think God will collect up everybody and put us in his dimension.

 

[yiostheoy]

Yes , Moses must have been important to God. I think God felt that way about Job as well.

Job is just a story in the Hebrew Tenakh.

It is so beyond belief that it is hard to think it is more than a Jewish bedtime story to make the kiddies feel like YHVH watches over them because they are the Chosen People.