Zone1 Why does a good God allow evil?

[ding]

You dont challenge me. In the slightest. Ever.

Then you shouldn't be crying.

 

[TNHarley]

Then you shouldn't be crying.

You make me laugh

 

[onefour1]

Suppose for a moment that God is not the only self-existent one in the universe. Suppose for a moment that there is a part of man known as his intelligence that has always existed and is coeternal with God. Now suppose that those self-existing intelligences are not perfect like God but are subject to progression. If this were the case, then God could not create something that is itself self-existing. A self-existing intelligence would have its own free will. In order to help these self-existing intelligences progress, God could give them a spirit body from the elements that are eternal. In this way they become the spirit children of God. God could then want his spirit children to have a knowledge of good and evil and send his spirit children to a fallen mortal world and endow them with physical bodies made from elements that are eternal. In this way the intelligences progress by gaining spirit bodies and then physical bodies to become like God but go through a mortal world to learn that there is opposition in all things and when you have good you also have evil and that it is best to choose the good. After experiencing this mortal world, these mortal bodies experience death but are later resurrected to enjoy an immortal body of flesh and bones for all eternity.

Since God could not create our intelligences, and since our intelligences are imperfect, having his children experience good and EVIL allows them to progress. One must keep in mind that man's intelligence is eternal and after receiving a spirit body his spirit becomes immortal and finally after experiencing this mortal life and learning good and evil his mortal body is resurrected to become immortal and eternal to exist for ever and ever. In this way God brings about the progression of mankind's eternal intelligence. God allows evil because it is an eternal principal that there is opposition in all things. If God creates good, its opposite automatically exists. For mankind to become good beings, they must, with their free agency, learn to choose good over evil. God has placed mankind into a temporary world of good and evil so that man can experience good from evil and learn to choose good over evil of his own free will and choice. Only in this way can a self-existing intelligence progress toward becoming more like God.

Some may suppose that God is all powerful and can do absolutely anything imaginable. But that is not the case. God is only all powerful in that he can do all that is possible. There are eternal impossibilities that not even God himself can do. Some examples are that God cannot be an all good being and an all evil being simultaneously. God also cannot cease to exist. That which has a self-existent nature cannot cease to exist. Mankind's intelligence, also being self-existent, cannot cease to exist. Another eternal impossibility is that God cannot create things from nothing. Worlds were created out of self-existing matter and mankind and animals were created out of self-existing intelligence and matter. To create does not imply creation out of nothing. God is the great organizer of the universe. He creates things from self-existing intelligence and matter.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[ding]

You make me laugh

Good. I'm laughing at how long this is going on because you don't like being challenged.

 

[ding]

So lets say that murdering entire cities for people speaking to a statue, or dudes wanting a penis in their mouth raised the standard of conduct. Having your own child killed for backtalk is raising the standard of conduct. Ok, fine.
But my whole point was we are now morally superior to those people.
Your gaslighting doesnt change anything.

You don't believe any of that happened, right? So how is this not a disingenuous argument? Why don't you start with what you really believed happened? Or are you afraid of being accused of antisemitism?

Then after you explain what you believe really happened, I'll walk you through where you went wrong.

 

[ding]

Right and wrong is older than the abrahamic god.

What gives right and wrong meaning?

Be careful... it's a trap.

 

[Rambunctious]

Without evil how could we recognize good?....

 

[Meriweather]

We as a society are superior to the ancient abrahamic societies.
This isnt complicated.

Let's say as a society we are superior to ancient societies. Can the same be true of age groups? Which age group is morally superior to other age groups? What about career paths we follow? Were hunters morally superior to gatherers? Are lawyers morally superior to teachers? Are doctors morally superior to architects?

Let's take the Biblical analogies of yeast in dough and sowing seeds. Those who are taught to treat babies and small siblings gently and kindly. Doesn't that grow/spread into treating others kindly? That spreads into treating treating dogs, cats, and other pets with love as well. I was taught compassion to other people, but that spread to the point that even have compassion when I see a worm struggling on a hot sidewalk. Jews were taught to love one another. That spread to loving strangers and sojourners, which spread into loving slaves and treating them with greater care.

Some criticize God for not ordering, No slaves! It seems to me, God starts with a seed or a little yeast, plants it, or kneads it into society. The plant starts producing more fruit; yeast starts spreading. And we get there.

 

[onefour1]

That which is self-existent is not created or made and neither indeed can be.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I have an odd question. I have daughters, so I don't know when male babies that aren't Jewish get circumcised. Is it as soon as they are born?

 

[BreezeWood]

Without evil how could we recognize good?....

sad commentary ... hopefully you do not keep evil nearby for that reason.

good can never be fully appreciated as long as any evil is allowed to persist ... to free one's spirit for judgement.

 

[Rambunctious]

sad commentary ... hopefully you do not keep evil nearby for that reason.

good can never be fully appreciated as long as any evil is allowed to persist ... to free one's spirit for judgement.

Its about recognizing good and appreciating it... without evil in the world no one would need God or prayer or hope and faith... life would be a wasted existence....
Not sure what you mean by "keep evil nearby" that's a dumb thing to say... Evil is always nearby and so is God if you wish to seek him.... some choose to seek evil instead...

 

[SweetSue92]

As I have said repeatedly here before, this is the one question that dogs those of faith, which is, why does a good God allow evil? But for those not of faith, the questions are even harder, which is, answering pretty much everything else regarding our existence.

This is an interesting response to the question.

This is not a bad argument but he's sidestepping the question. Atheists are asking IF you believe in God, and you say He is good, then why is there evil?

My short answer is: this is not the end yet. God tolerates it, and can even use it, because all is good in the end.

If you're a Bible-believing Christian, you understand the inception of evil in the Garden of Eden could have ended humanity. God could have said, well that's it, I will just erase this.

But He didn't because it was worth it. Evil is a scourge and horrid in a million ways, with a million manifestations. But His end is so good it was worth it.

 

[kyzr]

This is not a bad argument but he's sidestepping the question. Atheists are asking IF you believe in God, and you say He is good, then why is there evil? My short answer is: this is not the end yet. God tolerates it, and can even use it, because all is good in the end.
If you're a Bible-believing Christian, you understand the inception of evil in the Garden of Eden could have ended humanity. God could have said, well that's it, I will just erase this. But He didn't because it was worth it. Evil is a scourge and horrid in a million ways, with a million manifestations. But His end is so good it was worth it.

1. Look in the spiritual realm first not here in this universe and on this planet, after the big-bang. Does evil exist in God's dimension? Probably not. So where did evil come from? You know, Satan and the other demons. Was the War in Heaven real?

War in Heaven - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The War in Heaven is a mythical conflict between supernatural forces in traditional Christian cosmology, attested in the Book of Revelation alongside proposed parallels in the Hebrew Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is described as the result of Satan, who is often identified as the Archangel Lucifer, rebelling against God and leading to a war between his followers and those still loyal to God, led by the Archangel Michael. Within the New Testament, the War in Heaven provides basis for the concept of the fallen angels and for Satan's banishment to Hell. The War is frequently featured in works of Christian art, such as John Milton's epic poem Paradise Lost, which describes it as occurring over the course of three days as a result of God the Father announcing Jesus Christ as His Son.

2. So still in the spiritual realm, if you believe scripture, round-2 will be coming up just before the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

Archangel Michael Will Lead the Victory Over Satan During End Times

In Revelation 12, the Bible describes the spiritual warfare between the Archangel Michael and Satan during end times.

www.learnreligions.com

Archangel Michael Will Lead the Fight Against Satan During End Times​

The Archangel Michael, who reigns as the leader of all God's angels, fights evil with the power of good. Michael has engaged in spiritual battles with the fallen angel known as Satan throughout history. The Bible says the struggle will reach a climax in the future, just before Jesus Christ returns to Earth. In Revelation 12:7-10, the Bible tells how Michael and the angels he supervises will defeat Satan and the other rebellious angels during the world's end time.

3. How do we know invisible demons exist all around us? How do we know religion is not bullshit, a giant hoax by religious leaders? Many Catholic priests almost proved it's a hoax by being child abusers knowing the quote Jesus said about the millstone. Lets just say that the demons won that round. However if you want to prove it to yourself you could buy a "Spirit Box" and talk to them, not recommended, they don't leave you alone after contacting you.

4. So why does a good God allow evil? As the OP asks.
Evil where? Here on earth or in the eternal spiritual world? I tend to disagree with the OP video because he is only looking at the physical world. Is the big-bang God spitting us out? Are we in purgatory, in this dimension/world until we either become hot or cold? Hot gets to heaven and cold stays here until the last atom dissolves 100-trillion years from now, in a cold dark empty universe?

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/76203/what-does-jesus-mean-by-hot-cold-and-lukewarm-in-revelation-316

16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

 

[BreezeWood]

Its about recognizing good and appreciating it... without evil in the world no one would need God or prayer or hope and faith... life would be a wasted existence....
Not sure what you mean by "keep evil nearby" that's a dumb thing to say... Evil is always nearby and so is God if you wish to seek him.... some choose to seek evil instead...

no one needs a deity ... the idea is to live past one's mortal existence by freeing their spirit for when their physiology expires.

there is no evil in the heavens so best to not try and bring that with you if your hoping for an extended lifetime. called judgement.

that's the point for living to become free of sin.

 

[Votto]

This is not a bad argument but he's sidestepping the question. Atheists are asking IF you believe in God, and you say He is good, then why is there evil?

My short answer is: this is not the end yet. God tolerates it, and can even use it, because all is good in the end.

If you're a Bible-believing Christian, you understand the inception of evil in the Garden of Eden could have ended humanity. God could have said, well that's it, I will just erase this.

But He didn't because it was worth it. Evil is a scourge and horrid in a million ways, with a million manifestations. But His end is so good it was worth it.

My answer is this, evil does not really exist for the same reason darkness does not really exist. For you see, the term darkness is just a term to denote the absence of light. Light you can measure, but darkness you can't because it does not really exist.

Therefore, evil is just the absence of God who is love. And love is the key to it all, because for two parties to have a loving relationship, there must be the ability for each party to accept and love the other or reject the other, otherwise, it is not really love.

 

[Rambunctious]

no one needs a deity ... the idea is to live past one's mortal existence by freeing their spirit for when their physiology expires.

there is no evil in the heavens so best to not try and bring that with you if your hoping for an extended lifetime. called judgement.

that's the point for living to become free of sin.

I never said there was evil in heaven... and of course there is a day of judgement for us all....

 

[SweetSue92]

My answer is this, evil does not really exist for the same reason darkness does not really exist. For you see, the term darkness is just a term to denote the absence of light. Light you can measure, but darkness you can't because it does not really exist.

Therefore, evil is just the absence of God who is love. And love is the key to it all, because for two parties to have a loving relationship, there must be the ability for each party to accept and love the other or reject the other, otherwise, it is not really love.

This is not a bad argument, but it's basically calling evil a God-vacuum. While that seems adequate, the Bible describes evil differently, akin to God separating the light and dark in Genesis.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

As I have said repeatedly here before, this is the one question that dogs those of faith

Doesn't me. I don't think it does most of us.

This physical life is TEMPORARY.
GOD is concerned about your ETERNITY.
Read the parable about the wheat and chaff.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I have an odd question. I have daughters, so I don't know when male babies that aren't Jewish get circumcised. Is it as soon as they are born?

I don't know about today, but in my day, American males were circumcised. They did it for medical/health reasons