Zone1 Why does a good God allow evil?

[Meriweather]

LDS are correct logically and spiritually.

Not

 

[Hawkins]

God allows evil because evil is mathematical. In statistics and probabilities, human/angel behavior is in a bell shape. Law is to make a cut on the bell shape curve to define what are acceptable (by a sin-incompatible God) and what are not. By the factor of free will alone, 2/3 angels together with 1/3 humans are considered acceptable to live with a God in eternality and in harmony. Sins (as defined by Law) harms God, while God is to build a Heaven where no one is harmed, including God.

Angels are given a lesser degree of free will but with high intelligence and high ability as their very existence is to participate in God's creation tasks. Humans are created with low intelligence relatively but having a larger degree of free will. By mathematical law then, 2/3 angels and 1/3 humans (roughly in a mathematical Normal Distribution) will be saved.

However, the highly intelligent angels (bad ones are described as the crafty snakes) can have a negative effect on humans with relatively low intelligence. As a result of the influence of the 1/3 bad angels, no humans are savable. Isaiah 14:17, Satan has all the ability to keep humans captive under Law. So under the influence of angels, the figure becomes 2/3 angels will be saved but 0 humans are savable.

Then it's the effect of Jesus brings back the 1/3 humans. With Jesus, humans are no longer judged by Law (which sentences them to death) but by Covenant. The New Covenant is an emphasis on Faith. Faith (and repentance) is one of the human characteristics which represents who are correctable after we all sinned. Faith is used as a judgment standard in the New Covenant. You can't possibly pass the Judgment of Law as we all sinned. We can however pass the Judgment of Covenant which picks up those who sinned but correctable in Heaven. At the end, it goes back to the original figure of 2/3 angels together with 1/3 humans, in the mathematical formula, who can live God forever. The Judgment is actually a promise given out by God to say that, those who pass the Final Judgment (angels by Law and humans by Covenant) will live, God will bear with them in eternity no matter what.

On the other hand, as sins harm God whoever sinned need to leave God's current dwelling place. Satan sinned, Adam sinned as well. Both are driven out of God's dwelling realm. They are supposed to be in a place absent of God's influence, which is a hell. Earth is such a hell supposed to be destroyed completely long ago with a flood (of Noah's age). Hell then will be spiritual realm which is the realm of the dead. In such a realm the most evil and the most powerful will eventually rule. It happens that the name of this most evil and most powerful figure is Satan. God simply cuts His knowlege and disconnects Himself completely to this realm of death. The state of the realm of death is referred to as a permanent separation from God (with God's knowledge cut off permanently). Theoretically, God no longer has the knowledge of this realm. It's however prophesied that this realm will finally run into an eternal fire, as it's outside of Satan's capability to deal with the true nature (this universe and planet earth are not the true nature as they are God-made, true nature is supposed to be filled with energy and fire).

Today's earth is not yet fully hellish simply because God hasn't completely withdraw His influence for a reason, which is to save His scattered sheep. Earth is described as a wilderness (Satan has all the free will and power to destroy it in whichever way he wants, especially casting doubts on humans to keep them from the salvation of God). God doesn't physically rebuild earth for Satan to play it as a toy. God's only job is merely to save His sheep. Whatever bad things happened to His sheep do not matter, as God's sheep will never complain in eternity (as said their tears are wiped out after fully understanding God's purpose for earth).
Humnas (Adam) are given the second chance simply because Adam's descendants are supposed to be innocent, they are thus given the chance to return to God's dwelling realm. Angels are done once they choose to sin.

Whatever bad things happened to the unsaved do not matter either, they will have a new god whose name is Satan. If you have any complaint in that realm, ask Satan to get it resolved for you. Satan is not capable of handling the true nature though, that the eternal fire is inevitable. To put it another way, evil is allowed here on earth for it to be fully displayed and will be eradicated once and for all with the Final Judgment. Everyone, angels and the sinned but correctable humans will be holy in Heaven, and to live God peacefully in eternity.

That's the maths of salvation!

 

[Cougarbear]

Not

Prove that I did not use perfect logic and reasoning. We have always existed as has God as intelligences. He is greatest of all intelligences for our universe. That is the only way he could not have created evil.

 

[Meriweather]

We have always existed as has God as intelligences.

Not. Biblical Book, Chapter & Verse

 

[Cougarbear]

Not. Biblical Book, Chapter & Verse

So, you believe that God created evil? God is outside of our understanding. We are confined to this universe, its all we know, so our knowledge is limited by it. God is outside of it, outside of even the time element, and thus outside of our understanding. So, by limiting your understanding to the Bible, I chose to know that God still sends prophets and apostles to teach what is outside our universe. You have limited beliefs. I do not. God did give us brains to cognitively reason out logically and I come to the logical conclusion we existed before the universe was organized and did so with God. We can do evil and wrong things without blaming God if we understand we have always existed in some form like intelligence.

 

[Meriweather]

So, you believe that God created evil? God is outside of our understanding. We are confined to this universe, its all we know, so our knowledge is limited by it. God is outside of it, outside of even the time element, and thus outside of our understanding.

Why dare to think that I believe God created evil? Tell me.

Two points:

• Genesis teaches that all God created is good. So tell me: Why would I go against this teaching?
• Since God knows what is good, would he also know what is evil? How?

The clue that presents itself is that where God created light, there was no dark. Where did dark come from? In the same way, where God created good, there was no evil. Where did evil come from? (Return to, Where did dark come from?) If God did not create dark, how did it come to be? We have no record of God creating either darkness or evil. What we do know is that where good is, evil ceases to exist--just as where light is, darkness ceases to exist.

So, by limiting your understanding to the Bible, I chose to know that God still sends prophets and apostles to teach what is outside our universe. You have limited beliefs. I do not. God did give us brains to cognitively reason out logically and I come to the logical conclusion we existed before the universe was organized and did so with God. We can do evil and wrong things without blaming God if we understand we have always existed in some form like intelligence

Etymology of 'prophets' are those who speak God's word. It has very little to do with foreseeing the future. Etymology of 'apostles' (synonym, missionaries) are those who go forth proclaiming the word of God. Jehovah Witnesses would also be an example of an apostle; priests and bishops who have worked in different areas (and most do) would be apostles, as are missionaries, both priests and laity. (I find it amusing that Mormons think they are the only ones who have prophets and apostles.)

By definition a 'belief' limits. My belief in God's definition of himself (I am God, there is no other) limits my belief that any Mormon will ever become a god of his/her own planet. Your belief that you will become a God limits your belief that human you are and human (and all that entails) you will remain.

Do you believe darkness always existed before light? Do you believe evil always existed before good? If so, then aren't you imagining (since you are limited to the belief you always existed) that before goodness and light you existed as something dark and evil? If you see yourself as good, when--exactly--did you become good?

For those of us who believe we are God's creation, we have Biblical assurance that we were created good.

 

[Cougarbear]

Why dare to think that I believe God created evil? Tell me.

Two points:

• Genesis teaches that all God created is good. So tell me: Why would I go against this teaching?
• Since God knows what is good, would he also know what is evil? How?

I definitely know God knows what evil is. Why would he establish commandments if he didn't know the difference between good and evil. Strange question. I will also say that because my knowledge about who the Father is, he definitely knows because he was on an earth like ours in his Father's universe. "As man is now, God once was. As God is now, man may become." If we pass the exam to receive celestial glory at the highest degree, we will have the opportunity to establish our own universe as well with the knowledge of good and evil. Remember, after Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of knowledge of good AND EVIL, they (we) became like them, the Godhead, knowing good and evil.

The clue that presents itself is that where God created light, there was no dark. Where did dark come from? In the same way, where God created good, there was no evil. Where did evil come from? (Return to, Where did dark come from?) If God did not create dark, how did it come to be? We have no record of God creating either darkness or evil. What we do know is that where good is, evil ceases to exist--just as where light is, darkness ceases to exist.

So, you don't know where dark came from. Hmmm... It's always existed as all intelligences have always existed. As Intelligences, we have free will that was not given to us but it is something we always have had, the ability to choose good or evil. So, we and the Godhead have also always known what both are. People like to use the cute saying that if there is not light, then there is only darkness. Well, if there is no darkness, then there is only light too. Which came first outside the universe? Chicken or the egg can be your only answer. Mine is not limited to this universe's understanding. You have no oracles of God that receive direct knowledge from God, apostles and prophets.

Etymology of 'prophets' are those who speak God's word. It has very little to do with foreseeing the future. Etymology of 'apostles' (synonym, missionaries) are those who go forth proclaiming the word of God. Jehovah Witnesses would also be an example of an apostle; priests and bishops who have worked in different areas (and most do) would be apostles, as are missionaries, both priests and laity. (I find it amusing that Mormons think they are the only ones who have prophets and apostles.)

No, JWs do not have a priesthood, apostles or prophets. Where did you get that from? Try Google. There are a handful of Christian churches that have an actual order of apostles and prophets. They pretty much took their lead from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and excommunicated members. But, not JWs. The Popes have stated forever that they are neither apostles or prophets.

By definition a 'belief' limits. My belief in God's definition of himself (I am God, there is no other) limits my belief that any Mormon will ever become a god of his/her own planet. Your belief that you will become a God limits your belief that human you are and human (and all that entails) you will remain.

Your belief is limited. I agree. Mine is not. Mine includes continued revelation and increasing knowledge. You even limit what your state of life will be after this life because your Church doesn't know. Enjoy your harp

Do you believe darkness always existed before light? Do you believe evil always existed before good? If so, then aren't you imagining (since you are limited to the belief you always existed) that before goodness and light you existed as something dark and evil? If you see yourself as good, when--exactly--did you become good? For those of us who believe we are God's creation, we have Biblical assurance that we were created good.

Light and Dark have always existed together. Not only in this universe, but all other universes as well. I wonder where in the Bible it says God exists outside our universe where time doesn't exist. If time doesn't exist, then neither does space. That's really dumb logic. Again, I have more knowledge about God than you so my understanding and beliefs are less limited than yours.

 

[Meriweather]

Your belief is limited. I agree. Mine is not. Mine includes continued revelation and increasing knowledge.

Here is where we differ: I research (scientifically) and rely on clues from the Bible. The reason I dismiss LDS "revelation" is their history (and ongoing modus operandi) of writing a story to fill in the holes which they call "revelation and increasing knowledge". When it is debunked or they are called on it, they simply supply another "revelation".

Light and Dark have always existed together. Not only in this universe, but all other universes as well.

Not according to theology (when it comes to physical light). Genesis has God calling light into existence. Now, there is also the theological position that God's glory is also light, but not from a physical source (like the sun or fire) as God is Spirit.

Again, I have more knowledge about God than you so my understanding and beliefs are less limited than yours.

No, you have less knowledge and are actually more limited. I am willing to accept, "Not human knowledge yet" and happily ponder any number of possibilities. You have created your own limitations and are happy with them.

 

[Cougarbear]

Here is where we differ: I research (scientifically) and rely on clues from the Bible. The reason I dismiss LDS "revelation" is their history (and ongoing modus operandi) of writing a story to fill in the holes which they call "revelation and increasing knowledge". When it is debunked or they are called on it, they simply supply another "revelation".

Scientifically? You cannot prove the existence of God scientifically. God does not reveal through scientists his plans and knowledge. We may stumble on some things but it isn't because God gave Mr. Einstein a prophecy.
As far as filling holes, there are many in the Bible. And, one of the purposes of The Book of Mormon is to fulfill those holes. Such as, when should we baptize babies? The answer, never. They are sinless and it's an evil act to suggest a baby can sin and must repent through baptism. For, baptism is for the remission of sins. The way Catholics do this is much like their Kosher laws where they've piled up more restrictions so they don't ever have to worry about breaking a Kosher law.
Nothing so far has been debunked. And, I mean nothing.

Not according to theology (when it comes to physical light). Genesis has God calling light into existence. Now, there is also the theological position that God's glory is also light, but not from a physical source (like the sun or fire) as God is Spirit.

So, before there was light then was darkness. So, light is the absence of darkness. God has a Spirit for sure, in his physical glorified body. It should read, God is Spiritual. And yes, light can also be a brightness of countenance as well.

No, you have less knowledge and are actually more limited. I am willing to accept, "Not human knowledge yet" and happily ponder any number of possibilities. You have created your own limitations and are happy with them.

Don't see how since I have by far more knowledge about who and what God is. You refuse to acknowledge present day apostles and prophets like the people in Jesus day mostly did. In fact, every OT prophet also received mostly rejections and stoning. Why do people stone their present day prophets while revering their ancient past prophets and glorify them? Strange.

 

[Meriweather]

I have by far more knowledge about who and what God is.

Tell me of your personal experience(s) of God in this life.