We waited too long to enter WWII to stop Nazi Germany. Russia is the Nazi Germany of today. Any action we take now will help stop this terrible aggression from spreading. Please note; it has just been revealed that Russia attempted to overthrow the government of the nation of Moldova. Who knows what other nations they are doing that to right now and would do to other nations if they're not stopped now. Their government is the problem, it's totally corrupt. The Russian people are victims like everyone else.
Why do you support Ukraine?
- Thread starter Andrew_Jackson_FTW
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SavannahMann
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Spanish is spoken by a great many people in the Southwestern Region of the United States. So if they decided to rejoin Mexico, what would we do? What would you demand that we do? You would demand and there isn’t a Politician, Living or dead in history, who would just accept that. So the idiotic idea that it was the choice of the people living in one country to go to another, and take the territory with them, and have that choice accepted and supported by the Government and people in the rest of the aforementioned nation is idiotic. Frankly, anyone who suggested such a thing would have to be heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Fools.
No nation would accept that. Not one. So that idiotic argument is dealt with for now, I’m sure you’ll bring it up again, and again, and again. Since that is the tactic of the Russian Trolls and their useful idiots.
As for the equally idiotic Conspiracy Theory of the Bioweapons Labs. Phooey.
No sign of Ukraine bioweapons labs says disarmament chief, after further Russian claims
The UN is not aware of any biological weapons programme being conducted in Ukraine, the Organization’s disarmament chief told the Security Council once more on Friday, responding to fresh allegations by the Russian Federation, that it had evidence to the contrary.
But you don’t need links to deal with that do you? If Ukraine facing death at the start of this conflict, with Russian Forces closing on Kiev, had such a capability, why wouldn’t they use it? Disperse some of those secret Bioweapons, and watch Russian soldiers die in a few days. Watch while it decimated the Russian forces, and pray that it moves eastward and wipes out the Russian population.
Nonsense. Complete Garbage.
When Obama was President, I said at that time, that with Russia’s largest Naval Base on the Black Sea being in Crimea, there would have to be an understanding, worst case like our Guantanamo Bay situation. I said at the time that Russia would fight for their base, and we would fight for ours.
Here is the real problem. Russia is greedy. They don’t just want the base. They want the whole bloody thing. Russia being greedy is no new thing. They’ve been doing it for years around the entire region.
Every night the Russians try and move the fence to take more of their neighbors territory.
Every night.
Russia’s new strategy in Georgia: Creeping Occupation - LSE Human Rights
LSE Human Rights blog post discussing Russia's strategy in Georgia.
blogs.lse.ac.uk
So fuck Russia, and fuck your propaganda. If I could save the Russians from certain death by lifting a single finger, I’d stick my hands in my pockets and let them all die. They wanted this war, they have it. They have the results. They have the economic destruction of their nation. And while I am realistic enough to think they will eventually win, I hope it costs them so much that they spend a hundred generations trying to get back to where they were before this crap started.
Rigby5
Diamond Member
The US has a far worse record of human rights violations, mass murder, illegal invasions, etc.
For example, the waterboarding at Gitmo, the lies about Iraq WMD, the illegal attack on civilians with Shock and Awe, etc.
The US has constantly been trying to install dictators all over the world, like Chaing Kai Shek in China, Syngman Rhee in Korea, Batista in Cuba, Diem in Vietnam, Samosa in Nicaragua, etc.
There is no country more guilty of human rights violations than the US.
In fact, we have twice the % imprisoned comparted to the rest of the normal world.
Russia has less than a third the % imprisoned.
Rigby5
Diamond Member
Wrong.
The Ukraine was taken over by a US bribed military coup in 2014, and they murdered, exiles, or imprisoned all political opposition. The racist fascist Azov Battalion is known for their Nazi symbols, and they hate Russians and have been known to have murdered over 30k innocent ethnic Russians.
Kyiv used to be the capital of Russia, but the ethnic Polish invaders have turned the ethnic Russians into a minority by slowly murdering them.
Not to mention Kyiv was found guilty in the World Court at the Hague, of stealing billions worth of gas and oil from Russian pipelines.
Kyiv trying to join NATO, in order to put nukes on Russia's border, is also a treaty violation that amounts to an act of war.
The Ukraine is historically a Russian "homeland", not one for ethnic Poles like who control Kyiv now.
The ukrainian president the russian speaking population massively voted for, Viktor Yanukovitch, born in Donetsk, was removed from power in a fraudulent impeachment process after the ukrainian majority went to the streets to protest.
The russian speaking population said enough is enough and decided to secede from an ukranian majority country that didn't represent them.
But there's no chance in hell you're gonna accept, let alone support, Donetsk and Luhansk's fight for freedom from ukrainian oppressive rule and their right to self determination, because it completely destroys your whole narrative of a heroic, united Ukraine fighting big, bad Russia.
People like you have no problem with people being subjugated as long as the subjugation is done by Ukrainians.
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Rigby5
Diamond Member
Wrong.
The southwest states were illegally stolen by the US, and should be returned.
The Texas rangers are notorious for murdering ethnic Mexicans who legally kept their property rights by treaty, so we killed them so we could steal their homes.
Rigby5
Diamond Member
Agreed.
The Crimea, Luhansk, Donetsk, etc., were part of Russia for over a 1000 years, are populated by ethnic Russians, Khrushchev had no right to give them to the Ukraine in 1955, and Kyiv has been abusing them, like not letting them speak Russian.
Lastamender
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The emperor wannabe is Zelensky.
occupied
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There's no question of who is the aggressor here. It's not debatable. If you are going to carry water for the Russian war effort at least say something that's not totally ludicrous. Put some effort into your bullshit.
SavannahMann
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Ok, help me out. What was stopping those people from relocating East? If they want to be Russian, why is it that Ukraine, or parts of it, have to become Russia? Why can’t those people who want to be Russian, just move to Russia? It seems a common sense approach doesn’t it?
It would be the obvious choice if people in Arizona wanted to live in Mexico, or people in Michigan wanted to be Canadian. Move to that country.
Instead, we are supposed to accept the idea that if a people in a region wanted to be one nationality instead of the one they had been born into, the nation they had lived their lives in, they not only leave, but take the territory with them.
Nonsense. Absolute nonsense.
I’d have the same attitude if some people in Arizona wanted to declare themselves Mexico, or any other nation in the world. We wouldn’t be having this discussion if people in Russia wanted to be Ukrainian. Vlad would have killed them all by now.
When the fight occurs in Donetsk and Luhansk the aggressor is definitely Ukraine trying to subjugate a population that clearly doesn't want to live under ukrainian rule.
Just like the english army was the aggressor in America in 1776-83.
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Indeependent
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Zelensky is a tyrant.
He has closed down media outlets for several years for disagreeing with his policies.
Kruska
Diamond Member
Sorry but that is IMO ust wishful thinking and more or less totally off from reality whilst ignoring the bigger picture.
As I had pointed out in many posts - this our present world is facing a collision between the US (that want's to keep it's economic global dominance, whilst trying to expand it further) and a China that want's to expand it's share of global economic dominance. The USA tries to take additional influence onto what it regards to be their tools - e.g. NATO/B-9/ and the EU added on by e.g. Australia, Japan and Korea. China came up with BRIC and the Silk-road project to gain supporters and to weaken the US alliance.
The e.g. Palestinian, Iran, Ukraine and Taiwan issue are simply - pieces/results of general global manipulation, by which the USA can justify it's presence and actions and make it's opposition look bad. Far more important for the USA is to get their back free towards present financial commitments/burdens (military and foreign policy related costs) to concentrate solely onto China. Opposing US global dominance, was formerly more or less just the Soviet-Union - since 2000 it was the ever increasing economic and political power of China and Russia.
The Soviet-Union dominated the Islamic Middle-East - so an unresolved Palestinian issue was very useful for the Soviet Union. The USSR went down the drain but almost simultaneously Iran, Syria, Saudi-Arabia and Iraq wanted to step into this Middle-east power vacuum. setting them automatically onto a collision course with the USA - who now regarded it as their own unopposed and private playground. The only realistic ally the USA has till now in the Middle-East is only Israel - the others are far too prone towards internal political instability and their "flexible" agendas towards the USA, so an unresolved Palestinian issue furthers Islamic hardliner reactions and that is exactly what the USA needs, in order to justify their military and political presence and to forge additional alliances.
So the Ukraine issue has forced the EU and the European part of NATO to increase it's military spending's and the political will to even get into a war - therefore reducing the financial burden of the USA. The USA is still the main financier - but NATO/EU is taking a larger share then ever before. The USA can't totally rely onto NATO which is on the European side dominated by Germany, France, UK and Italy. Turkey is a headache for the USA on it's own. However due to history and it's related culture and causes, the "new" NATO members are far more easily maneuvered by the USA into an anti-Russian stand. And an anti-Russian stance might be easily transferred onto an anti-China stance.
As such the USA is taking advantage of this situation by instituting a B9 group within NATO. Clearly taking into calculation that this "new" NATO block would be able to level out political and military setbacks caused by a possible reluctant e.g. Germany, France, etc. Therefore willingly/intentionally causing a rift within the "old" EU NATO organization.
The USA is very used to, and was rather successful making use of it's military to enforce their goals in the past 120 years. It has become a norm for US policy to include military actions. China on the other hand has made very little use of it's military in the past 60 years - some border issues with India and a three week border war with Vietnam.
However China is very aware that US foreign policies don't work out without a military involvement (war). Therefore it has and is readying itself for for exactly that scenario.
IMO China will not attack anyone - if not being clearly threatened in their national security regarding their immediate homeland. A situation the USA has never been exposed to in the past 120 years, (Cuba crisis aside, for which the USA was even willing to go into a Nuclear confrontation/war) but China and a hundred countries and more have experienced just that. Almost entirely due to the US-USSR confrontation.
Therefore the Palestinian issue - also works for China, by pointing out that a repressive, UN law breaking state, is being fully backed by the USA. China however holds back mostly in that regard, due to it's good and important diplomatic/economic relationship with Israel.
China's political path and offer is very clear - are you with us and therefore profit from trade and economic cooperation, (whilst obtaining global domination for themselves) or do you prefer a USA global domination, which will eventually get you into a war with your neighbor or wherever globally.
Since this is an American forum - let me clearly state that politics are politics and these do not necessarily reflect a populations general mindset in regards to a specific political party that beholds the former, present and future government of the USA. But the US elites - regardless of their party allegiance all behold the same primary agenda - USA No.1 (brainwashed down to most Americans in the past 120 years), and all applied means are considered/propagated as legitimate and righteous in order to keep it that way.
For the world it doesn't really matter if democrats or republicans rule - but a senile warmongering Biden, a loudmouth Trump, a silly boy like Bush jun. or a ruthless capitalist as Bush sen. are extremely dangerous for our planet and your own country. Personally I liked Reagan best - no real wars at all - outspoken and headstrong, and never openly insulted other heads of states or caused serious friction. He kept and even ensured the USA as No.1. via diplomatically and economically out maneuvering the USSR. Never mind the Iran-contra issue -nobody is perfect, or his show of force towards the superpower Grenada. But just as in the Grenada issue the eradication of communism was his primary goal, which he achieved without setting the world on fire. Job well done.
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Spanish is spoken by a great many people in the Southwestern Region of the United States. So if they decided to rejoin Mexico, what would we do? What would you demand that we do? You would demand and there isn’t a Politician, Living or dead in history, who would just accept that. So the idiotic idea that it was the choice of the people living in one country to go to another, and take the territory with them, and have that choice accepted and supported by the Government and people in the rest of the aforementioned nation is idiotic. Frankly, anyone who suggested such a thing would have to be heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Fools.
No nation would accept that. Not one. So that idiotic argument is dealt with for now, I’m sure you’ll bring it up again, and again, and again. Since that is the tactic of the Russian Trolls and their useful idiots.
As for the equally idiotic Conspiracy Theory of the Bioweapons Labs. Phooey.
No sign of Ukraine bioweapons labs says disarmament chief, after further Russian claims
The UN is not aware of any biological weapons programme being conducted in Ukraine, the Organization’s disarmament chief told the Security Council once more on Friday, responding to fresh allegations by the Russian Federation, that it had evidence to the contrary.news.un.org
But you don’t need links to deal with that do you? If Ukraine facing death at the start of this conflict, with Russian Forces closing on Kiev, had such a capability, why wouldn’t they use it? Disperse some of those secret Bioweapons, and watch Russian soldiers die in a few days. Watch while it decimated the Russian forces, and pray that it moves eastward and wipes out the Russian population.
Nonsense. Complete Garbage.
When Obama was President, I said at that time, that with Russia’s largest Naval Base on the Black Sea being in Crimea, there would have to be an understanding, worst case like our Guantanamo Bay situation. I said at the time that Russia would fight for their base, and we would fight for ours.
Here is the real problem. Russia is greedy. They don’t just want the base. They want the whole bloody thing. Russia being greedy is no new thing. They’ve been doing it for years around the entire region.
Every night the Russians try and move the fence to take more of their neighbors territory.
Every night.
Russia’s new strategy in Georgia: Creeping Occupation - LSE Human Rights
LSE Human Rights blog post discussing Russia's strategy in Georgia.blogs.lse.ac.uk
So fuck Russia, and fuck your propaganda. If I could save the Russians from certain death by lifting a single finger, I’d stick my hands in my pockets and let them all die. They wanted this war, they have it. They have the results. They have the economic destruction of their nation. And while I am realistic enough to think they will eventually win, I hope it costs them so much that they spend a hundred generations trying to get back to where they were before this crap started.
Just do not give them any taxpayers resources. Let the natural Mexican corruption do its work and impoverish them.
Lastamender
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Zelensky has outlawed political parties. He is persecuting those of the Russian orthodox faith.
Admiral Rockwell Tory
Diamond Member
You don't realize that to have an emperor you need an empire?
Admiral Rockwell Tory
Diamond Member
He is persecuting spies in the Russian Orthodox Church who were feeding intel to Russia.
Lastamender
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Maybe they need you undercover to save their ass. Zelensky is as corrupt as the best of them.
Andrew_Jackson_FTW
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Back in the day a lot of people in Ireland were killed and oppressed by the English. But it wasn’t a one off sort of policy there were Irish men who worked with the English. Yes in the Soviet territories there were people from every Soviet territory that appreciated the Soviet union.
People's Republic of Bulgaria - Wikipedia
And I suppose in every country we have the very bad stories like the stuff that your family and friends have had to go through. sorry to hear about that and I appreciate your point of view in this thread and look forward to learning more from you.…You know that happened in the 1970s in northern Ireland when brave Irishman fought for their independence ..some that were brutally tortured by the British establishment.
My people the Irish have fought the British throughout the centuries and Have done so bravely. And the Irish Americans have built this country
I am an Irishman an American of Irish background my great grandfather immigrated from Ireland. But I don’t harbor this ill will toward the British like I see how some people from India believe that Winston Churchill was like Adolf Hitler perhaps like you believe Joseph Stalin was like Adolf Hitler or something of that nature.
I wonder what it’s like for the family and relatives of Irish men who were killed and oppress by the English throughout history and what they might say about the English.
To the point about Russia because it’s not Vladimir Putin but it’s Russia. To the point about Russia going after other countries other than Ukraine I’m not buying it yet. No way because the United States of America invaded Afghanistan in 2001 and just two years later and wait for Iraq. So if Russia wanted one of the smaller countries they would’ve already gone for it. And I would be really surprised if Russia goes after all of Ukraine anyways. It seems like they only want eastern Ukraine. Let’s look at Russia going after Ukraine compared to America going after Iraq …which do you think was more justified ? Ukraine is right on Russia’s border it’s something like 30% of Ukraine is pro Russian according to an Indian general.
Whereas United States of America was thousands of miles away from Iraq
Another point on top of this all don’t we live in a militarized world my friend. You know I don’t like warfare and by the way I’ve met quite a few people from Bulgaria and they are excellent people. I’ve met people from the former Yugoslavia and they all told me that the former communist Yugoslavia was a great place to live. At least that’s what the Bosnians told me…. they said that Tito was a great guy so I guess maybe not all communist states were bad?
I know people from the former Soviet union a former coworker of mine who is a Muslim something like 75 years old from Uzbekistan or one of the Muslim majority states of the Soviet union. He always told me that the Soviet union was a much better place than the Russian federation or America… and you know that there are plenty of people like that who live in Russia today and who live in former Soviet states none of them had a gun pointed at her head and they say that the Soviet times were better than what we see today.
What do you say to these honorable people?
You ask me I prefer American style democracy to to communism…. But there are people in this world who say there were good communist states Again like Yugoslavia
Dynasty in some cases of the world were the choice is either communism or some kind of a radical theocracy there’s no doubt that the communist state is way way better.
Would you rather live in communist Afghanistan or the hell hole that is the Taliban controlled Afghanistan?
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