Why do the U.S. support Ukraine which has Nazi laws?

[Rigby5]

There is no fallacy in saying that there could be disagreement on good policy without one side being Nazis automatically.

You are just too fucking stupid to admit such simple facts.

But clearly the Ukraine has nothing to do with "good policy".
If they were not totally corrupt as a nation, then Hunter Biden and Burisma Holdings would have already been prosecuted for the obvious crimes.
The blatant discrimination and outright murder of ethnic Russians by the Azov Battalion is clearly Nazi.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Wrong.

{...
"Withering away of the state" is a Marxist concept coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with the realization of socialism, the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law.
...}

Withering away of the state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Both Marx and Engles were clear that they belief that capitalist greed was the fault of the corrupt wealthy elite, and that once there was justice, that inherent generosity of people would take over and make government force totally unnecessary.

The phrase, "dictatorship of the proletariat" means very specifically, a democratic republic, based on cooperation.
It means the exact opposite of what you claim, a centralized authoritarian dictatorship.
The proletariat is the masses.
A dictatorship of the masses IS a democratic republic.

Yes and Marx clearly said that the withering away of the state would occur after the rule of the Dictatorship of the proletariate. The state which would wither away IS THE precisely that dictator..


The dictatorship of the proletaiate means a violent despotic dictator or group of dictators who would rule with absolute authority.

It does not mean democracy or a republic.

You cannot cite any passage from Marx or engels where they qualify the dictatorship as anything you are claiming

They called for despotism and dictatorship and never for democracy that is FACT

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Wrong.
The Ukraine was specifically prohibited from joining alliances hostile to Russia.

Bullshit! Cite your source!

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wrong.

{...
"Withering away of the state" is a Marxist concept coined by Friedrich Engels referring to the idea that, with the realization of socialism, the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law.
...}

Withering away of the state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Both Marx and Engles were clear that they belief that capitalist greed was the fault of the corrupt wealthy elite, and that once there was justice, that inherent generosity of people would take over and make government force totally unnecessary.

The phrase, "dictatorship of the proletariat" means very specifically, a democratic republic, based on cooperation.
It means the exact opposite of what you claim, a centralized authoritarian dictatorship.
The proletariat is the masses.
A dictatorship of the masses IS a democratic republic.

You're so full of shit.

Dictatorship of the proletarians is exactly that, dictatorship. The middle class, whom Marx called "bourgeoisie" were excluded from voting or any sort of inclusion in governance.

You lie because "dictatorship" doesn't poll well.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

False.
Read Article II, Paragraph 4.
I can't quote it directly, as the pdf does not allow copy/paste to this post.

https://legal.un.org/avl/pdf/ls/wood_article.pdf

But the whole POINT of the UN is to make war illegal, except in immediate defense or as approved by the UN.

That is an article from the Indian Law Journal.

 

[Soupnazi630]

So then the fact the illegal US embargo that prevented Venezuela from selling oil, had NO effect on their economy?

There was no illegal embargo or any embargo at all they could sell oil to anyone who wished to buy it

 

[Rigby5]

Pure bullshit.

Zelensky's first language is Russian and he speaks it fluently.

How do you even have the gull to post such blatant falsehoods?

Anyone not acknowledging the wide spread discrimination against ethnic Russians in the Ukraine, would have to be lying. It is notorious.

{...
Ukraine is a multi-ethnic country that was formerly part of the Soviet Union.[1][2][3] Valeriy Govgalenko argues that racism and ethnic discrimination has arguably been a largely fringe issue in the past, but has had a climb in social influence due to ultra-nationalist parties gaining attention in recent years.[4] There have been recorded incidents of violence where the victim's race is widely thought to have played a role, these incidents receive extensive media coverage and are usually condemned by all mainstream political forces.[5] Human Rights Watch reported that "racism and xenophobia remain entrenched problems in Ukraine".[6] In 2012 the European Commission against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) reported that "tolerance towards Jews, Russians and Romani appears to have significantly declined in Ukraine since 2000 and prejudices are also reflected in daily life against other groups, who experience problems in accessing goods and services".[7] From 2006 to 2008, 184 attacks and 12 racially motivated murders took place.[8] In 2009, no such murders were recorded, but 40 racial incidents of violence were reported.[8] It is worth considering that, according to Alexander Feldman, president of the Association of National and Cultural Unions of Ukraine, "People attacked on racial grounds do not report the incidents to the police and police often fail to classify such attacks as racially motivated and often write them off as domestic offence or hooliganism".[8]
A 2010 poll conducted by the Kuras Institute of Political and Ethnic Studies [uk] showed that some 70 percent of Ukrainians estimates the nation's attitude towards other ethnical minorities as ‘conflict’ and ‘tense’.[9]
...}

Racism in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The fact Zelensky was taught Russia first, does not mean he did not resent it and hold that against Russian speakers.
The fact Ukrainians may have been discriminated against under Stalin, does not excuse the racists and violent discrimination now by Kyiv against ethnic Russians.

 

[Rigby5]

The invasion was legal

The Un does not decide such matters.

Saddam did many illegal things and was legally executed according to the laws of Iraq

The UN was specifically created exactly to decide such matters.
It was supposed to end all wars of aggression by making them illegal.
Only defensive wars or those deemed necessary by the UN were legal after the UN charter is ratified.

Saddam did absolutely NOTHING even remotely illegal.
The invasion was claimed to be defensive, even though Saddam never threatened the US or had any means of threatening the US.
So the US totally lied.

 

[Rigby5]

No it was not a treaty aty all.

Treaties are never secret. They are public formal agreements. Any old interactions hetween to governnments does not define a treaty.

Ukraine violated no treaty at all

Treaties are almost always private.
You only make them public if you want to manipulate the public.
A treaty is a contract intended to benefit both parties.
The Ukraine wanted and was given independence.
All Russia asked in return was to not join alliances hostile to Russia.
Seems not only extremely fair, but evil for the Ukraine to deliberately violate like Kyiv did.

 

[Rigby5]

The Ukranians did NOT man most of the death camps and china is a communist nation

I already quoted many Holocaust survivor testimony saying 80% of the death camp guards were Ukrainian.
There is nothing remotely communist about China.

 

[Rigby5]

That is an article from the Indian Law Journal.

The whole point of the UN was to make aggressive war illegal.
The use of miliary force was then legally limited to defense, or according to UN vote.
Does not matter where you look it up.
The US congress ratified the UN charter, so it became US law.

 

[Rigby5]

There was no illegal embargo or any embargo at all they could sell oil to anyone who wished to buy it

The US embargo on oil is well documented.
It was worse than just a blockade might be because the US also prevented needed technology from getting to Venezuela to repair the steam equipment needed to process the thick tar sand oil that Venezuela produced.

 

[Uncensored2008]

But clearly the Ukraine has nothing to do with "good policy".
If they were not totally corrupt as a nation, then Hunter Biden and Burisma Holdings would have already been prosecuted for the obvious crimes.
The blatant discrimination and outright murder of ethnic Russians by the Azov Battalion is clearly Nazi.

You're right. Ukraine is corrupt top to botton.

But that's doesn't mean the even more corrupt Russians are an improvement.

 

[Dissident]

... to say that Ukraine mandating national language in their PUBLIC education system is proof that they are somehow a Nazis state is straight INSANE.

I repeat again and again – this isn’t about “mandating national language in Ukrainian public education system”.

Under Ukrainian laws, different ethnic groups have different rights in Ukraine - for example, ethnic Crimean Tatars have more rights to use their native language – the Tatar language – during the education in public schools; ethnic Hungarians have less rights than Crimean Tatars to use their native language – the Hungarian – during the education in public schools; and ethnic Russians have less rights to use their native language – the Russian - than Hungarians.

And I ask the same question again and again
Aren’t the laws, which divide citizens according to their ethnic origin into categories, some of which have more rights and others have less rights, the Nazi laws?

 

[Rigby5]

You don't have a RIGHT to be taught in foreign language.

Private schools in Ukraine can teach in any language they want and to say that Ukraine mandating national language in their PUBLIC education system is proof that they are somehow a Nazis state is straight INSANE.

Any desperate for pretext idiot can grab a certain narrow law in of ANY country and use that to claim that the country is Nazi. It's pure bullshit.

Wrong.
In places where the local ethnic language differs, then that language should be used in the public schools.
That is the same argument used to destroy native American cultures with forced English only boarding schools.
The deliberate discrimination against any ethnic culture is Nazi, based on attempts to homogenize culture.

 

[Rigby5]

You mean like if California were to create a treaty with Mexico as a "sanctuary state?"


In 1955 there was no "Russian Federation."

You need to lie less.

Wrong.
The USSR was a Russian federation.
It was created by Russia, and it reserved national actions to the USSR leadership in Moscow.
The Russian federation did not end until 1991, by Gorbachev.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wrong.
The USSR was a Russian federation.
It was created by Russia, and it reserved national actions to the USSR leadership in Moscow.
The Russian federation did not end until 1991, by Gorbachev.

You are so full of shit that no one can take you seriously.

 

[Rigby5]

You're right. Ukraine is corrupt top to botton.

But that's doesn't mean the even more corrupt Russians are an improvement.

Whether or not Russia is more corrupt than the Ukraine, would require more time than I care to devote.
But the point is that clearly the Ukraine is extremely harmful to the provinces that are majority ethnic Russia, so they have the right to leave the Ukraine.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The UN was specifically created exactly to decide such matters.
It was supposed to end all wars of aggression by making them illegal.
Only defensive wars or those deemed necessary by the UN were legal after the UN charter is ratified.

Saddam did absolutely NOTHING even remotely illegal.
The invasion was claimed to be defensive, even though Saddam never threatened the US or had any means of threatening the US.
So the US totally lied.

The Un is meaningless and a toll they do not override or supercede US law

 

[Soupnazi630]

The US embargo on oil is well documented.
It was worse than just a blockade might be because the US also prevented needed technology from getting to Venezuela to repair the steam equipment needed to process the thick tar sand oil that Venezuela produced.

No it is not.

they were free to sell to whom ever wished to buy it.

No one prevented any such thing the owners simply cbhose not to give assistance to thieves.