Why do the Left Wing Liberals Hate Corporations?

[Jarhead]

Why?

Corporations are the greatest drivers of wealth creation in the history of mankind.

I don't hate corporations. Hell, it was corporations that made it possible for me to own lots of things near and dear to me - my cars, my computer, my cameras, my iPad, etc., etc.

What I don't like, is corporations who produce all these great things for us, at the expense of the workers who actually do the production work. You know, employees?

So long as corporations are fair to their workers, I have no complaint. When they cease to do that, then I have complaints.

Sure, there are rogue corporations...just as there are rogue cops...and rogue waves...and rogue employees and rogue politicians....

Why are all coroations labelled as evil based on the actions of just a few?

 

[Bern80]

Why are you so quick to flush the middle class standard of living down the pipes? Hasn't that standard of living served you well? Should American labor be treated as a commodity? Should our standard of living rival India's, or should it be the other way around?

Have you ever heard of consessions made by labor to keep the mills open? I sure have! Everything from retirees now living without the benefits THEY FOUGHT AND NEGOCIATED FOR IN GOOD FAITH to lowering of wages and hours worked, just to keep the mill open. Then Presto! The mill shuts down anyway.

And even folks who never worked in the mill get screwed! Why? Because without a large employer, the value of the community goes down. Property values suffer and no one NO ONER will come and buy the house in McKee's Rocks PA because there's no work there. And the grocer's house, the furniture store employees house, the doctor's house all sit on a glutted market.

And then those folks can't move to some Sun Belt shithole because they can't get squat for their property.

And it's all labor's fault, eh? If that were even remotely true, the homes around here would all be mansions because those dastardly unuion workers wrung all they could out of poor old Jones and Lauglin Steel. please.

So what's your solution? Make a business stay open even if it can't make any money for the sake jobs. How the hell is that gonna work?

I'm not flushing the middle class. I'm telling you the respsonsibility is on you to adapt if what it takes to be middle class changes. Get it through your skull. NO ONE OWES YOU A MIDDLE CLASS STANDARD OF LIVING. NO ONE OTHER THAN YOU IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THAT TO YOU. YOU ARE NOT OWED THE SAME JOB FOR LIFE.

The Conservativ e policies of kow towing to the corporations. Outsourcing, tax breaks for moving out of America, lax regulations over investments and bonus structures. If the Conservatives had thought as much about rank and file Americans as theyh had about the corporations funding their campaigns, perhaps we would still have a vibrant middle class.

Go ahead. Keep Ignoring what I'm saying. Cause none of what you just said means shit if you hold yourself personally accountable. Maybe if the middle class started giving a shit about THEMSELVES they wouldn't be where the are.

 

[Trajan]

Why?

Corporations are the greatest drivers of wealth creation in the history of mankind.

I don't hate corporations. Hell, it was corporations that made it possible for me to own lots of things near and dear to me - my cars, my computer, my cameras, my iPad, etc., etc.

What I don't like, is corporations who produce all these great things for us, at the expense of the workers who actually do the production work. You know, employees?

So long as corporations are fair to their workers, I have no complaint. When they cease to do that, then I have complaints.

can you please define "fair"?

 

[Nosmo King]

So what's your solution? Make a business stay open even if it can't make any money for the sake jobs. How the hell is that gonna work?

I'm not flushing the middle class. I'm telling you the respsonsibility is on you to adapt if what it takes to be middle class changes. Get it through your skull. NO ONE OWES YOU A MIDDLE CLASS STANDARD OF LIVING. NO ONE OTHER THAN YOU IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THAT TO YOU. YOU ARE NOT OWED THE SAME JOB FOR LIFE.

The Conservativ e policies of kow towing to the corporations. Outsourcing, tax breaks for moving out of America, lax regulations over investments and bonus structures. If the Conservatives had thought as much about rank and file Americans as theyh had about the corporations funding their campaigns, perhaps we would still have a vibrant middle class.

Go ahead. Keep Ignoring what I'm saying. Cause none of what you just said means shit if you hold yourself personally accountable. Maybe if the middle class started giving a shit about THEMSELVES they wouldn't be where the are.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm answering you. You asked what are my solutions. Well, undoing a lot of the policies that reward outsourcing would be a grand place to start!

The american worker is a person of strength and character. They are not afraid of a fair fight. But countries have been dumping finished goods and refined materials here below the cost of production. It's called "dumping", and it's been going on for years. That's not "free" trade at all, is it? It certainly isn't "fair" trade. And that's all the American worker needs, a "fair" market in which to compete.

Making "Buy American" mandatory for all government contracts. Close the tax loopholes through which so many companies have fled our country. It's policy, smart, pro-American policies that will safeguard the middle class standard of living. If you won't permit the right to strike or collectively bargain, at least stop kissing corporation's asses and waving them off to Asia!

 

[Synthaholic]

Why?

Corporations are the greatest drivers of wealth creation in the history of mankind.

I don't hate corporations. Hell, it was corporations that made it possible for me to own lots of things near and dear to me - my cars, my computer, my cameras, my iPad, etc., etc.

What I don't like, is corporations who produce all these great things for us, at the expense of the workers who actually do the production work. You know, employees?

So long as corporations are fair to their workers, I have no complaint. When they cease to do that, then I have complaints.

Sure, there are rogue corporations...just as there are rogue cops...and rogue waves...and rogue employees and rogue politicians....

Why are all coroations labelled as evil based on the actions of just a few?

Who is doing that?

 

[Political Junky]

I don't hate corporations. Hell, it was corporations that made it possible for me to own lots of things near and dear to me - my cars, my computer, my cameras, my iPad, etc., etc.

What I don't like, is corporations who produce all these great things for us, at the expense of the workers who actually do the production work. You know, employees?

So long as corporations are fair to their workers, I have no complaint. When they cease to do that, then I have complaints.

Sure, there are rogue corporations...just as there are rogue cops...and rogue waves...and rogue employees and rogue politicians....

Why are all coroations labelled as evil based on the actions of just a few?

Who is doing that?

No one.

 

[Bern80]

The Conservativ e policies of kow towing to the corporations. Outsourcing, tax breaks for moving out of America, lax regulations over investments and bonus structures. If the Conservatives had thought as much about rank and file Americans as theyh had about the corporations funding their campaigns, perhaps we would still have a vibrant middle class.

Go ahead. Keep Ignoring what I'm saying. Cause none of what you just said means shit if you hold yourself personally accountable. Maybe if the middle class started giving a shit about THEMSELVES they wouldn't be where the are.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm answering you. You asked what are my solutions. Well, undoing a lot of the policies that reward outsourcing would be a grand place to start!

The american worker is a person of strength and character. They are not afraid of a fair fight. But countries have been dumping finished goods and refined materials here below the cost of production. It's called "dumping", and it's been going on for years. That's not "free" trade at all, is it? It certainly isn't "fair" trade. And that's all the American worker needs, a "fair" market in which to compete.

Making "Buy American" mandatory for all government contracts. Close the tax loopholes through which so many companies have fled our country. It's policy, smart, pro-American policies that will safeguard the middle class standard of living. If you won't permit the right to strike or collectively bargain, at least stop kissing corporation's asses and waving them off to Asia!

I agree with some of that. I would like a much more simplified tax code where there aren't a million tax credits, breaks and loopholes for this or that for anyone.

But mandating 'buy american' isn't a fair or free market solution. Face it, overseas labor has a competitive advantage over domestic labor. If we didn't have things like tariffs and import taxes it would be even worse. A business doesn't need much of a tax break incentive to move production overseas, they're gettting a tax break by just doing that.

If you really want what you say you want. Improving the middle class and keeping our labor competitive, then your very first order of business is taking your own personal inventory first instead of everyone elses. What do YOU need to do to be competitive in todays labor/job market? If you can answer 'yes, I'm doing everything I need to do to make myself valuable to potential employers, then and ONLY then, can you start pissing and moaning about the realtively minor unfairness around you.

And I hate to sound like a broken record, but you need to drop the notion that society owes you something. That's your biggest problem. You keep comlaining about everything else because you think it's someone elses job to make sure you have a decent standard of living. Consequently you take no responsibility and don't do anything yourself to improve your position. IT IS NOT ANYONE ELSES RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE FOR YOU. Job and labor markets change. Certain jobs are going to go away. Technology has made it more viable for businesses to do business overseas. Jobs will go overseas tax break or no tax break. And those jobs overseas keep the cost of goods down. What you dont' get is you can't have it both ways. The cost of labor is tied to the cost of goods. If the cost of labor for company goes up the cost of it's product goes up, so what exactly have you gained by making a business pay more for labor by stayining in a America?

 

[Jarhead]

Sure, there are rogue corporations...just as there are rogue cops...and rogue waves...and rogue employees and rogue politicians....

Why are all coroations labelled as evil based on the actions of just a few?

Who is doing that?

No one.

You are obviously either too lazy to read a thread or just interested in spewing untruths.

My comment was in response to Nosmo who quite clearly was referring to "corporations" as a whole.....and so I responded to him showing him how it is inappropriate to refer to corporations as a whole seeing as only a very small percentage of corporations are guilty of what he claims.

So the answer is NOT no one.


Read a thread before you cherry pick one comment and make an assertrive UNTRUE statement about it.

 

[Jarhead]

Go ahead. Keep Ignoring what I'm saying. Cause none of what you just said means shit if you hold yourself personally accountable. Maybe if the middle class started giving a shit about THEMSELVES they wouldn't be where the are.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm answering you. You asked what are my solutions. Well, undoing a lot of the policies that reward outsourcing would be a grand place to start!

The american worker is a person of strength and character. They are not afraid of a fair fight. But countries have been dumping finished goods and refined materials here below the cost of production. It's called "dumping", and it's been going on for years. That's not "free" trade at all, is it? It certainly isn't "fair" trade. And that's all the American worker needs, a "fair" market in which to compete.

Making "Buy American" mandatory for all government contracts. Close the tax loopholes through which so many companies have fled our country. It's policy, smart, pro-American policies that will safeguard the middle class standard of living. If you won't permit the right to strike or collectively bargain, at least stop kissing corporation's asses and waving them off to Asia!

I agree with some of that. I would like a much more simplified tax code where there aren't a million tax credits, breaks and loopholes for this or that for anyone.

But mandating 'buy american' isn't a fair or free market solution. Face it, overseas labor has a competitive advantage over domestic labor. If we didn't have things like tariffs and import taxes it would be even worse. A business doesn't need much of a tax break incentive to move production overseas, they're gettting a tax break by just doing that.

If you really want what you say you want. Improving the middle class and keeping our labor competitive, then your very first order of business is taking your own personal inventory first instead of everyone elses. What do YOU need to do to be competitive in todays labor/job market? If you can answer 'yes, I'm doing everything I need to do to make myself valuable to potential employers, then and ONLY then, can you start pissing and moaning about the realtively minor unfairness around you.

And I hate to sound like a broken record, but you need to drop the notion that society owes you something. That's your biggest problem. You keep comlaining about everything else because you think it's someone elses job to make sure you have a decent standard of living. Consequently you take no responsibility and don't do anything yourself to improve your position. IT IS NOT ANYONE ELSES RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE FOR YOU. Job and labor markets change. Certain jobs are going to go away. Technology has made it more viable for businesses to do business overseas. Jobs will go overseas tax break or no tax break. And those jobs overseas keep the cost of goods down. What you dont' get is you can't have it both ways. The cost of labor is tied to the cost of goods. If the cost of labor for company goes up the cost of it's product goes up, so what exactly have you gained by making a business pay more for labor by stayining in a America?

Tax credits are designed to prompt corporations and people in general to at in the best interest of society in a way they would normally not see as adventageous to do.

For example...LIHTC are designed so that real eststate developers and investors spend money in communities that are generally considered not worthy of investment.

Shipping jobs overseas which, on the outside seems to be counterproductive to the US is, in fact, very productive. If we were not ship jobs overseas, then foreign corporations woulkd not ship jobs here. The advantage of having foreign corporations with apresence in the US is many fold....creates jobs (IE Toyota)....creates lower prices for the consumer on what would otherwise be imported goods....creates a flow of capital...

It is best to understand the reasons for the tax credits as opposed to simply assume they were designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

 

[Bern80]

Why?

Corporations are the greatest drivers of wealth creation in the history of mankind.

I don't hate corporations. Hell, it was corporations that made it possible for me to own lots of things near and dear to me - my cars, my computer, my cameras, my iPad, etc., etc.

What I don't like, is corporations who produce all these great things for us, at the expense of the workers who actually do the production work. You know, employees?

So long as corporations are fair to their workers, I have no complaint. When they cease to do that, then I have complaints.

can you please define "fair"?

Fair is whatever you and your employer agree on for compensation. Human nature says the employee is generally going to think he/she is more valuable than what they really are and the employer is going to want to pay as little as they have to for labor. Competition in the market establishes the going rate for certain skill sets.

But it does seem what one defines as fair is dependent on what one thinks the responsibility of an employer is. Some here seem to think, and indeed in other previous threads some of straight up admitted, they believe the role in society of employer is to provide a person a standard of living. Well that just isn't so. I'm working toward socking away some money in hopes of being my own boss, but lord knows I'm not doing that for the purpose of providing for anyone else. I'm doing it to provide for me. If I need employees and it helps them improve their standard of living as a bi-product, great. But it certainly isn't my obligation. The only place fair comes into play or where an employer is obligated to fairness, is to fairly compensate and employee for the skills provided to the employer. And fair is determined by negotiation between employer and employee and the market rate for the skills you'll be providing to the employer.

 

[Jarhead]

As a successful business planner and recruiter in the NYC marketplace....

The free market establishes salary rates.

If one company in any given industry pays substantially more than another, the best talent will apply for positions with that company. If another company wants to be able to compete, it will need to raise their pay schedule.

The decision one needs to make as an prosspective employee....do I want to be one of the masses or do I want to have a differential. If you opt to be one of the masses, and bring to the table a skill set that is no different than the masses, there wll be less of a demand for your labor and thus lower salaries offered...

If you opt for a trade where it is impossible to stand out as superior, say a McDoanlds counter clerk.....you will never have the opportunity to apply for a position with a firm that pays higher than the norm.

And before anyone says "not all have the resources to develop themselves to satnd out"...

Here is an example where you dont need to but stand out anyway...

Pool cleaner.

You can go to the client, clean the pool, backwash the filter, balance the chemicals and make your 12 an hour...

or...

You can call the client...ask if they have a party planned that week....clean the pool that morning...offer to come back the next day to clean again....show them how to balance the chemicals between cleanings....stop by between cleanings to ensure a balance...and believe me...you will stand out, generate new customers as one with a differential..and likely build your own business

or...

You can simply be example one and work 9-5 and complain about how little you make.

 

[Vanquish]

You lost me at "free market" ...there is no such thing. The government sets minimum salary rates at nationwide levels. If it didnt, evil corporations would push people into wages that were deplorable.

And that's the problem with evil corporations...they fail to police themselves with any ethics or morality. Child labor, women's rights, minority rights...I could go on and on about the evils that corporations throughout even recent history have committed.

I'm not against business or even big business. I own 3 businesses and grew up in a family that owned one of the largest businesses in the state. But you're fooling yourself if you think libs hate corporations. What libs hate (and centrists like me) are corporations that use their money and influence to screw people over.

 

[Jarhead]

You lost me at "free market" ...there is no such thing. The government sets minimum salary rates at nationwide levels. If it didnt, evil corporations would push people into wages that were deplorable.

And that's the problem with evil corporations...they fail to police themselves with any ethics or morality. Child labor, women's rights, minority rights...I could go on and on about the evils that corporations throughout even recent history have committed.

I'm not against business or even big business. I own 3 businesses and grew up in a family that owned one of the largest businesses in the state. But you're fooling yourself if you think libs hate corporations. What libs hate (and centrists like me) are corporations that use their money and influence to screw people over.

Why do you feel that if there were no minimum wage, people would opt to accept a position at a horrendously low rate?

And you are wrong. There most certainly is a free market. If there were not then ALL people would be making minimum wage and not a penny more.

Salaries are dictated by the demand for people with a differential. The more you bring to the table, the greater the demand for you; the higher the salary you will generate.

Child labor? Where? Minority rights? Where?

 

[Nosmo King]

Go ahead. Keep Ignoring what I'm saying. Cause none of what you just said means shit if you hold yourself personally accountable. Maybe if the middle class started giving a shit about THEMSELVES they wouldn't be where the are.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm answering you. You asked what are my solutions. Well, undoing a lot of the policies that reward outsourcing would be a grand place to start!

The american worker is a person of strength and character. They are not afraid of a fair fight. But countries have been dumping finished goods and refined materials here below the cost of production. It's called "dumping", and it's been going on for years. That's not "free" trade at all, is it? It certainly isn't "fair" trade. And that's all the American worker needs, a "fair" market in which to compete.

Making "Buy American" mandatory for all government contracts. Close the tax loopholes through which so many companies have fled our country. It's policy, smart, pro-American policies that will safeguard the middle class standard of living. If you won't permit the right to strike or collectively bargain, at least stop kissing corporation's asses and waving them off to Asia!

I agree with some of that. I would like a much more simplified tax code where there aren't a million tax credits, breaks and loopholes for this or that for anyone.

But mandating 'buy american' isn't a fair or free market solution. Face it, overseas labor has a competitive advantage over domestic labor. If we didn't have things like tariffs and import taxes it would be even worse. A business doesn't need much of a tax break incentive to move production overseas, they're gettting a tax break by just doing that.

If you really want what you say you want. Improving the middle class and keeping our labor competitive, then your very first order of business is taking your own personal inventory first instead of everyone elses. What do YOU need to do to be competitive in todays labor/job market? If you can answer 'yes, I'm doing everything I need to do to make myself valuable to potential employers, then and ONLY then, can you start pissing and moaning about the realtively minor unfairness around you.

And I hate to sound like a broken record, but you need to drop the notion that society owes you something. That's your biggest problem. You keep comlaining about everything else because you think it's someone elses job to make sure you have a decent standard of living. Consequently you take no responsibility and don't do anything yourself to improve your position. IT IS NOT ANYONE ELSES RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE FOR YOU. Job and labor markets change. Certain jobs are going to go away. Technology has made it more viable for businesses to do business overseas. Jobs will go overseas tax break or no tax break. And those jobs overseas keep the cost of goods down. What you dont' get is you can't have it both ways. The cost of labor is tied to the cost of goods. If the cost of labor for company goes up the cost of it's product goes up, so what exactly have you gained by making a business pay more for labor by stayining in a America?

I said mandating "Buy American" for government contracts. I know you can't march into Wal*Mart and rid the inventory of Chinese made crap, as that's all Wal*Mart sells!

And I don't believe that society owes me something. I believe Conservative policies have stacked the deck squarely against the American worker. And that's hard to deny. So, in the vein that society owes something to anyone, it only follows that a Conservative 'free' trade policy does nothing at all to help the American worker, unless those workers specialize in boxing up the means of production for shipment overseas.

 

[Vanquish]

You lost me at "free market" ...there is no such thing. The government sets minimum salary rates at nationwide levels. If it didnt, evil corporations would push people into wages that were deplorable.

And that's the problem with evil corporations...they fail to police themselves with any ethics or morality. Child labor, women's rights, minority rights...I could go on and on about the evils that corporations throughout even recent history have committed.

I'm not against business or even big business. I own 3 businesses and grew up in a family that owned one of the largest businesses in the state. But you're fooling yourself if you think libs hate corporations. What libs hate (and centrists like me) are corporations that use their money and influence to screw people over.

Why do you feel that if there were no minimum wage, people would opt to accept a position at a horrendously low rate?

And you are wrong. There most certainly is a free market. If there were not then ALL people would be making minimum wage and not a penny more.

Salaries are dictated by the demand for people with a differential. The more you bring to the table, the greater the demand for you; the higher the salary you will generate.

Child labor? Where? Minority rights? Where?

You poor, deluded, sap. Why do you think the minimum wage was established in the first place? Did it spring up out of no need or no where? Of course not.

There are people in dire circumstances who will take whatever job they can get...even if the pay is crap BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO BARGAINING POWER. I know conservatives just want to think that "oh jobs are easy to find if you're not lazy or stupid" and "golly gee, of course a business wouldnt take advantage of someone" but that's not reality. Reality is there are bad apples out there.

Child labor and minority rights were problems in the past. Go pick up a book and learn some history. Actually, minority rights can still be a problem (I encounter it with my law practice), but laws have been passed protecting them now at least.

Businesses seek to make as much money as possible as efficiently as possible. With economies of scale, the more money and influence they have, the more efficient they can be. Unfortunately some bad apples do unscrupulous things when not regulated.

On the whole free market issue...as long as governments (and religions in ancient cultures before that) have put restrictions and laws and regulations on commerce...it hasn't been free. I laugh my ass off whenever I see someone post that phrase. It means most of the rest they are saying has little to no insight behind it.

 

[Iowa10000]

Lets just take a look at it ok!
In 1956 corp's paid 26% of the cost of the budget in corporate taxes.
Today after 54 years of tax cutting the corp's now pay 6% of our budget in taxes.
MOST WEALTHY PEOPLE USE THEIR MONEY TO ENHANCE THEIR WEALTH, SOMETHING MOST OF US HAVE NO OPPERTUNITY TO DO.
The govt gave tax cuts to those who earn 6 to 1000 times what the average worker makes an amount that was equal to 1 3/5 times what the average middle class person makes.
Wall street corps were big winners in this give away at the top.
Wall street just gave out bonus of 141,000 average to those working on wall street amounting to 20 billion dollars.

I mean we can go on, and talk about outsourcing for profit.
We can also talk about why has nothing gone down in price since we went to outsourcing?
We can talk about why has noting went down in price since we gave corp tax relief as a diet year after year.
Why have the top wage earners(ceo's and top exc's) went from earning 25 times what the average wage was to 225 times, and where do they get paid from.
Why has the upper 15% went from owning 52% of everything in 1990 to now owning 69% and on the move upwards.

So when the top 15% owns everything except the debt of our country I guess will take notice then.

I wonder why corp's spend so much money getting people elected who will put their interest forward, and those who stand up for the working class are so vilified.

 

[Jarhead]

You lost me at "free market" ...there is no such thing. The government sets minimum salary rates at nationwide levels. If it didnt, evil corporations would push people into wages that were deplorable.

And that's the problem with evil corporations...they fail to police themselves with any ethics or morality. Child labor, women's rights, minority rights...I could go on and on about the evils that corporations throughout even recent history have committed.

I'm not against business or even big business. I own 3 businesses and grew up in a family that owned one of the largest businesses in the state. But you're fooling yourself if you think libs hate corporations. What libs hate (and centrists like me) are corporations that use their money and influence to screw people over.

Why do you feel that if there were no minimum wage, people would opt to accept a position at a horrendously low rate?

And you are wrong. There most certainly is a free market. If there were not then ALL people would be making minimum wage and not a penny more.

Salaries are dictated by the demand for people with a differential. The more you bring to the table, the greater the demand for you; the higher the salary you will generate.

Child labor? Where? Minority rights? Where?

You poor, deluded, sap. Why do you think the minimum wage was established in the first place? Did it spring up out of no need or no where? Of course not.

There are people in dire circumstances who will take whatever job they can get...even if the pay is crap BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO BARGAINING POWER. I know conservatives just want to think that "oh jobs are easy to find if you're not lazy or stupid" and "golly gee, of course a business wouldnt take advantage of someone" but that's not reality. Reality is there are bad apples out there.

Child labor and minority rights were problems in the past. Go pick up a book and learn some history. Actually, minority rights can still be a problem (I encounter it with my law practice), but laws have been passed protecting them now at least.

Businesses seek to make as much money as possible as efficiently as possible. With economies of scale, the more money and influence they have, the more efficient they can be. Unfortunately some bad apples do unscrupulous things when not regulated.

On the whole free market issue...as long as governments (and religions in ancient cultures before that) have put restrictions and laws and regulations on commerce...it hasn't been free. I laugh my ass off whenever I see someone post that phrase. It means most of the rest they are saying has little to no insight behind it.

No need to spew insults toward me...but if it makes you feel better, go for it.

I do not need to read history. I know there were those issues in the past, but you seemed to imply child labor was an issue in the present...so I questioned it.

Same as minority labor issues.

But I again need to point out.....if there were no free trade dictating salary, then ALL would be earning minimum wage....and I noticed you did not address that.

Jobs easy to find if you are not lazy or stupid is by no means a conservative premise. TO the contrary, we believe in a normal market easy low paying jobs are easy to get and people fall into them due to the ease...maybe if they put more time into searching for the right opportunity they would be happier with their choice.

But I will say it again....if the free market did not dictate salaries, then all people would be earning minimum wage.

Now...if you wish to respond and debate, I am game. But if you are going to spew an insult to my intelligence as you already did, then I will assume you do not respect me and therefore I will not offer you the respect of a response.

 

[Bern80]

You lost me at "free market" ...there is no such thing. The government sets minimum salary rates at nationwide levels. If it didnt, evil corporations would push people into wages that were deplorable.

And that's the problem with evil corporations...they fail to police themselves with any ethics or morality. Child labor, women's rights, minority rights...I could go on and on about the evils that corporations throughout even recent history have committed.

I'm not against business or even big business. I own 3 businesses and grew up in a family that owned one of the largest businesses in the state. But you're fooling yourself if you think libs hate corporations. What libs hate (and centrists like me) are corporations that use their money and influence to screw people over.

So you worked for a large business are in charge of business yet contend business' are evil? I assume in these businesses you run all of your employees are paid minimum wage?

 

[Jarhead]

Lets just take a look at it ok!
In 1956 corp's paid 26% of the cost of the budget in corporate taxes.
Today after 54 years of tax cutting the corp's now pay 6% of our budget in taxes.
MOST WEALTHY PEOPLE USE THEIR MONEY TO ENHANCE THEIR WEALTH, SOMETHING MOST OF US HAVE NO OPPERTUNITY TO DO.The govt gave tax cuts to those who earn 6 to 1000 times what the average worker makes an amount that was equal to 1 3/5 times what the average middle class person makes.
Wall street corps were big winners in this give away at the top.
Wall street just gave out bonus of 141,000 average to those working on wall street amounting to 20 billion dollars.

I mean we can go on, and talk about outsourcing for profit.
We can also talk about why has nothing gone down in price since we went to outsourcing?
We can talk about why has noting went down in price since we gave corp tax relief as a diet year after year.
Why have the top wage earners(ceo's and top exc's) went from earning 25 times what the average wage was to 225 times, and where do they get paid from.
Why has the upper 15% went from owning 52% of everything in 1990 to now owning 69% and on the move upwards.

So when the top 15% owns everything except the debt of our country I guess will take notice then.

I wonder why corp's spend so much money getting people elected who will put their interest forward, and those who stand up for the working class are so vilified.

What I put in bold and larger font...that is a very valid statement.....but I must question....

Why is that?

What do you believe makes one wealthy enough to have their money make money for them?

 

[Jarhead]

You lost me at "free market" ...there is no such thing. The government sets minimum salary rates at nationwide levels. If it didnt, evil corporations would push people into wages that were deplorable.

And that's the problem with evil corporations...they fail to police themselves with any ethics or morality. Child labor, women's rights, minority rights...I could go on and on about the evils that corporations throughout even recent history have committed.

I'm not against business or even big business. I own 3 businesses and grew up in a family that owned one of the largest businesses in the state. But you're fooling yourself if you think libs hate corporations. What libs hate (and centrists like me) are corporations that use their money and influence to screw people over.

So you worked for a large business are in charge of business yet contend business' are evil? I assume in these businesses you run all of your employees are paid minimum wage?

If one is in a position to hire, then one would know what dictates wages.
Either he knows and he is debating for the sake of debating...or he is not in a position to hire.