Why do the God-haters persist?

[angstandvexed]

Hi hi's^^
Well isn't this a cluster---- of an issue? I don't hate God (in reference to the Judeo-Christian version),

nor do I hate Christians. I have an issue with the way that I'm treated as a non-Christian, but I also

have an issue with the way some Atheists treat believers (of any religion/spirituality). I think that

humanity was meant to be able to have faith, of one sort or another. Whether that faith is in one

god, many god/dess's, or science, it really doesn't matter. It is still faith. Instead of one specific

religion acting as a unifying force, maybe our capacity to believe should be the unifying force.

*Hugs and Bright Blessings*
angstandvexed

 

[Boss]

Religion was invented to explain the unknown scary things in a human's life. Apparently, some people are still afraid of the unknown.

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Where did I say ANYTHING about FEAR? You are jumping to conclusions, attributing comments to me that I never made. Why the hell do you think I am embarrassed by you outright LYING about what I said? You're the one who should be embarrassed, here you've been caught in yet another lie you can't defend or justify. Just a pathetic little puss pocket who can't make an argument, can't make a point, can't even be honest in the simplest of discourse.

No.
I think you are pretty conclusively punked here.
Tell you what.
We'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say we let you off the hook on fear(I don't, but let's pretend).
You have still made the case that people come to faith because of what they are facing, not what they have inherently within them. Not their spirituality but their lack, their need, their loss, their sorrow or challenges. Pick a couple. They make the case as well as fear, though all of them are rooted in the latter.
All I have to do is let you open your mouth, and you always do the hard work for me.
LOLOLOL!!!!

You can think whatever you please, you're a lying idiot. You've proved that here.

Humans have the ability within them to connect to spiritual nature, a force greater than self. This force is a source of inspiration and strength which gives them courage to handle adversity, but it is not something invented because of fear, which has always been your argument. If it were not real, it wouldn't serve this purpose of fulfilling these needs in humans, but it does.

What's been totally blown out of the water here is your notion of a superficial anomaly humans invented to cope with fears of their own mortality. Here is a classic example of Communist tyrants actively working for decades to destroy spirituality and failing to do so. In spite of brutal persecutions and executions, spiritualism prevailed. It cannot be stomped out of the hearts of man. The harder you try, the more persistent it becomes.

In light of what history shows, you have the nerve to lie and distort what I've said and claim some sort of "victory" where nothing of the kind exists for you. Don't look now but another huge chunk of your ass is missing... it's being mounted on my trophy wall as we speak. We're going to have to start calling you "the assless wonder" pretty soon.

So trials and tribulations show that people have this innate quality to be able to connect to the Spiritual nature, huh?
If it is so basic to human nature, why should it increase in the face of trouble? Where was this "inate" quality before the need arose for it?
Of course faith survives in the face of brutal persecution. What does one have left? This is the basic message of Revelation.
The whole point of rationalizations is they provide justifications that the individual can invest in for their own benefit and survival in spite of the fact they represent a self-deception. Many things that are not real still fulfill a need in people. People create untruth for themselves every single day.
In your other post you stumbled upon the truth, that difficulties of all stripes can lead people to faith. You were right. It becomes necessary and then is miraculously discovered. People react to crisis differently. Some become addicted to a substance or behavior, some slip into catatonic "other worlds", some become A-type personality over-achievers, some miraculously encounter "god", but they cope, somehow finding a reason to go on, or a method to endure.
Or they don't.
You can make the argument that the "god" solution is better, but there is no way to make the argument it's "true".
Your last paragraph is why I always think I'm really talking to a young teenager.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Religion was invented to explain the unknown scary things in a human's life. Apparently, some people are still afraid of the unknown.

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

Again, if intrinsic why do people "come" to faith? Why do they suddenly discover it if they had this inherent quality all along? Why does spirituality spike in the hard times and moderate in the good, statistically?
Stay with that other post that admits that people come to faith as a reaction to circumstance. You were standing at the door, about to wake from your stupor.

 

[Hollie]

Religion was invented to explain the unknown scary things in a human's life. Apparently, some people are still afraid of the unknown.

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

Nonsense. Religion was invented to account for natural phenomenon which wasn't understood.

Why do you think there are gods of thunder, lightning, sun gods, moon gods, etc.?

 

[koshergrl]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Of course you can't prove it, so that's all it is. You choose to believe that God is the product of man's lying nature.

I believe man reaches beyond his sinful nature by the grace of God.

Ultimately, I'm right, and you're wrong. But you won't see that until the very end.

 

[thebrucebeat]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

Of course you can't prove it, so that's all it is. You choose to believe that God is the product of man's lying nature.

I believe man reaches beyond his sinful nature by the grace of God.

Ultimately, I'm right, and you're wrong. But you won't see that until the very end.

Compelling argumentation skills!
LOL!!!

 

[MrMax]

Religion was invented to explain the unknown scary things in a human's life. Apparently, some people are still afraid of the unknown.

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

You respond because of your fear of the unknown and that you could be wrong about it, making you scared of not having your creator to hug you when you die. You pretend to try to convince others to your cause, but what you're really doing is to keep convincing yourself of something because you're so unsure about it deep down.

 

[koshergrl]

What is with anti-Christian progressives, and their insistence on telling other people 1. WHAT they think, and 2. That they SHOULDN'T think that.


Freaking loons. Don't worry about mind reading. Try to concern yourself with your own thoughts, rather than the thoughts of others.

 

[orogenicman]

What is with anti-Christian progressives, and their insistence on telling other people 1. WHAT they think, and 2. That they SHOULDN'T think that.


Freaking loons. Don't worry about mind reading. Try to concern yourself with your own thoughts, rather than the thoughts of others.

Here is a thought. Do Christian conservatives really keep kosher?

 

[Montrovant]

Where did I say ANYTHING about FEAR? You are jumping to conclusions, attributing comments to me that I never made. Why the hell do you think I am embarrassed by you outright LYING about what I said? You're the one who should be embarrassed, here you've been caught in yet another lie you can't defend or justify. Just a pathetic little puss pocket who can't make an argument, can't make a point, can't even be honest in the simplest of discourse.

No.
I think you are pretty conclusively punked here.
Tell you what.
We'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say we let you off the hook on fear(I don't, but let's pretend).
You have still made the case that people come to faith because of what they are facing, not what they have inherently within them. Not their spirituality but their lack, their need, their loss, their sorrow or challenges. Pick a couple. They make the case as well as fear, though all of them are rooted in the latter.
All I have to do is let you open your mouth, and you always do the hard work for me.
LOLOLOL!!!!

You can think whatever you please, you're a lying idiot. You've proved that here.

Humans have the ability within them to connect to spiritual nature, a force greater than self. This force is a source of inspiration and strength which gives them courage to handle adversity, but it is not something invented because of fear, which has always been your argument. If it were not real, it wouldn't serve this purpose of fulfilling these needs in humans, but it does.

What's been totally blown out of the water here is your notion of a superficial anomaly humans invented to cope with fears of their own mortality. Here is a classic example of Communist tyrants actively working for decades to destroy spirituality and failing to do so. In spite of brutal persecutions and executions, spiritualism prevailed. It cannot be stomped out of the hearts of man. The harder you try, the more persistent it becomes.

In light of what history shows, you have the nerve to lie and distort what I've said and claim some sort of "victory" where nothing of the kind exists for you. Don't look now but another huge chunk of your ass is missing... it's being mounted on my trophy wall as we speak. We're going to have to start calling you "the assless wonder" pretty soon.

Two things.

First, why must some sort of spiritual entity or force be real for belief to provide people courage during adversity?

Second, do you think there are still atheists in theocracies which practice brutal persecutions and executions for people who do not follow the proscribed faith?

 

[Steinlight]

Atheists would be alright if they weren't so religious.

 

[BreezeWood]

What is with anti-Christian progressives, and their insistence on telling other people 1. WHAT they think, and 2. That they SHOULDN'T think that.


Freaking loons. Don't worry about mind reading. Try to concern yourself with your own thoughts, rather than the thoughts of others.

Try to concern yourself with your own thoughts, rather than the thoughts of others.

"No one is without sin. No not one." - "No one comes to the Father except through me."


it is your thoughts and those who promote your religion, Boss ("However, since 1947 and the Hugo Black ruling, we have had a de facto persecution of religious belief in this country") that are insistent their Dogma be made a part of the public agenda.


Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


Religious Freedom - nothing there to impose the Christian Bible on anyone.

.

 

[Boss]

Religion was invented to explain the unknown scary things in a human's life. Apparently, some people are still afraid of the unknown.

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

Again, if intrinsic why do people "come" to faith? Why do they suddenly discover it if they had this inherent quality all along? Why does spirituality spike in the hard times and moderate in the good, statistically?
Stay with that other post that admits that people come to faith as a reaction to circumstance. You were standing at the door, about to wake from your stupor.

Why does an alcoholic wait until he has lost everything to seek help? Why do people wait until they are lost to get directions? Why do people wait until they are hungry to eat? Until they are sick to go to the doctor? Until their tooth aches to go to the dentist... etc., etc., etc. Why are humans vain and self-absorbed? I can't really answer these questions because it's just how we tend to be. Our intrinsic ability to spiritually connect is there, we're all born with it.

Some people do come to faith as a reaction to circumstance, others practice faith daily and have no circumstantial reason whatsoever. I see this girl jogging by my house everyday, she doesn't need to, she is in great shape. Me, I need to be out there jogging but I lack the motivation. There's no "template" everyone follows, we're all different. People tend to turn to faith more in times of adversity because they have nothing else. But here is the kicker; If there were nothing to it, if it were completely superficial and meaningless, no one would do it.

We all know about fad diets... Okay, imagine if someone came up with a fad diet where you can eat anything you want and never exercise, but for 30-minutes each morning, you stand in front of the mirror and tell yourself that you're losing weight. Now, if this worked, millions and millions of people would do it, whether they could explain how it works or not. Correct? But if it didn't produce results, what would happen? The fad would run it's course and people would simply abandon it. If, for all these years of human turmoil and struggle, the turning to spiritual faith for strength did not work, people would not do it. Yet, millions and millions do it, whether they can explain how it works or not.

Religion was invented to explain the unknown scary things in a human's life. Apparently, some people are still afraid of the unknown.

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

Nonsense. Religion was invented to account for natural phenomenon which wasn't understood.

Why do you think there are gods of thunder, lightning, sun gods, moon gods, etc.?

SCIENCE was invented to account for natural phenomenon which wasn't understood.

 

[Hollie]

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

Again, if intrinsic why do people "come" to faith? Why do they suddenly discover it if they had this inherent quality all along? Why does spirituality spike in the hard times and moderate in the good, statistically?
Stay with that other post that admits that people come to faith as a reaction to circumstance. You were standing at the door, about to wake from your stupor.

Why does an alcoholic wait until he has lost everything to seek help? Why do people wait until they are lost to get directions? Why do people wait until they are hungry to eat? Until they are sick to go to the doctor? Until their tooth aches to go to the dentist... etc., etc., etc. Why are humans vain and self-absorbed? I can't really answer these questions because it's just how we tend to be. Our intrinsic ability to spiritually connect is there, we're all born with it.

Some people do come to faith as a reaction to circumstance, others practice faith daily and have no circumstantial reason whatsoever. I see this girl jogging by my house everyday, she doesn't need to, she is in great shape. Me, I need to be out there jogging but I lack the motivation. There's no "template" everyone follows, we're all different. People tend to turn to faith more in times of adversity because they have nothing else. But here is the kicker; If there were nothing to it, if it were completely superficial and meaningless, no one would do it.

We all know about fad diets... Okay, imagine if someone came up with a fad diet where you can eat anything you want and never exercise, but for 30-minutes each morning, you stand in front of the mirror and tell yourself that you're losing weight. Now, if this worked, millions and millions of people would do it, whether they could explain how it works or not. Correct? But if it didn't produce results, what would happen? The fad would run it's course and people would simply abandon it. If, for all these years of human turmoil and struggle, the turning to spiritual faith for strength did not work, people would not do it. Yet, millions and millions do it, whether they can explain how it works or not.

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

Nonsense. Religion was invented to account for natural phenomenon which wasn't understood.

Why do you think there are gods of thunder, lightning, sun gods, moon gods, etc.?

SCIENCE was invented to account for natural phenomenon which wasn't understood.

Science provides answers to how nature operates.

Your promotion of fear and ignorance is what gave humanity the Dark Ages.

 

[koshergrl]

Please don't pretend you know anything at all about the Dark Ages, ignoramus.

 

[thebrucebeat]

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

Again, if intrinsic why do people "come" to faith? Why do they suddenly discover it if they had this inherent quality all along? Why does spirituality spike in the hard times and moderate in the good, statistically?
Stay with that other post that admits that people come to faith as a reaction to circumstance. You were standing at the door, about to wake from your stupor.

Why does an alcoholic wait until he has lost everything to seek help? Why do people wait until they are lost to get directions? Why do people wait until they are hungry to eat? Until they are sick to go to the doctor? Until their tooth aches to go to the dentist... etc., etc., etc. Why are humans vain and self-absorbed? I can't really answer these questions because it's just how we tend to be. Our intrinsic ability to spiritually connect is there, we're all born with it.

Some people do come to faith as a reaction to circumstance, others practice faith daily and have no circumstantial reason whatsoever. I see this girl jogging by my house everyday, she doesn't need to, she is in great shape. Me, I need to be out there jogging but I lack the motivation. There's no "template" everyone follows, we're all different. People tend to turn to faith more in times of adversity because they have nothing else. But here is the kicker; If there were nothing to it, if it were completely superficial and meaningless, no one would do it.

We all know about fad diets... Okay, imagine if someone came up with a fad diet where you can eat anything you want and never exercise, but for 30-minutes each morning, you stand in front of the mirror and tell yourself that you're losing weight. Now, if this worked, millions and millions of people would do it, whether they could explain how it works or not. Correct? But if it didn't produce results, what would happen? The fad would run it's course and people would simply abandon it. If, for all these years of human turmoil and struggle, the turning to spiritual faith for strength did not work, people would not do it. Yet, millions and millions do it, whether they can explain how it works or not.

You keep claiming this over and over but you've never proven it. The fact of the matter is, you can't prove it because it's not true. It's a baseless opinion that you wish were true.

Religion was invented to explain the intrinsic spiritual connection humans make with something beyond the physical. Science was invented to explain the unknown. Weapons were invented to address fear of scary things. The only people I see here obsessed with a fear of the unknown are those without spiritual connection to something greater than self.

Nonsense. Religion was invented to account for natural phenomenon which wasn't understood.

Why do you think there are gods of thunder, lightning, sun gods, moon gods, etc.?

SCIENCE was invented to account for natural phenomenon which wasn't understood.

See the red part above?
All of them are reacting to needs they have developed. Certain lacks they seek to correct. They don't inherently connect to any of those things. They satisfy a need when it arises.
Once again, you make my point for me, and I thank you.
Why do they do it? They are out of options. The last refuge for the desperate.

 

[Boss]

See the red part above?
All of them are reacting to needs they have developed. Certain lacks they seek to correct. They don't inherently connect to any of those things. They satisfy a need when it arises.
Once again, you make my point for me, and I thank you.
Why do they do it? They are out of options. The last refuge for the desperate.

But I'm not making your point, I am making the counter to your point. You asked why people only turn to faith when they need it, but the fact is, that's not the only time people turn to faith. Many people have faith without any subsequent need. You don't see many people at AA meetings who don't need to be there.

I don't understand what you're saying with "they don't inherently connect to any of those things" and I don't think I've made that argument. "Inherently" means by natural character or ability. All humans are born with the natural characteristic and ability to connect spiritually to something greater than self. It is "intrinsic", meaning, belonging to a thing by its very nature. Perhaps you are confused by these words and believe that I am saying spirituality is "inexorable" or "inevitable"? People make the choice whether to exercise their spiritual connecting ability.

Humans tend to satisfy needs when they arise, they put off things that they don't find necessary or important. This simply doesn't mean those things are unimportant or unnecessary, just that an individual may find them to be under their circumstances. You may put off going to the doctor because you don't find it necessary or important, but it doesn't mean doctors are unimportant or unnecessary. Now, if you suddenly develop severe abdominal pain, your first inclination is to go see a doctor. Yesterday, you may have felt the doctor visit was unimportant and unnecessary.

Okay, now why is your natural reaction to go see the doctor for your severe abdominal pain? It's because you rationalize the doctor may be able to help. BUT... If doctors were meaningless and superficial and no one ever gained any benefit from going to see them, you may as well be rationalizing to go see a plumber. The fact that you are aware that people have been helped by going to see the doctor, helps you to rationalize why this is a wise move. The same thing applies to spiritual connection and people who are struggling with adversity.

 

[MrMax]

No "intrinsic spiritual connection" has ever been proven. That some people disagree/don't have it would kinda disprove the statement, wouldn't you think? Otherwise we'd all feel it, no?

 

[westwall]

Keep it civil and on the subject...