Why do some right wingers Say if you go against Israel, you go against God? Israel existed thousands of years ago. It’s not the same as modern Israel

[TemplarKormac]

Nonsense.
First of all, the Bible was written by Byzantine Romans, around 300 AD, and is totally fake.
Second is that the Hebrew clearly were NOT the "Chosen People" because they were evil and massacred all the Canaanite women and children captured when they invaded Jericho. They also were constantly beaten by the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Seleucids, and Romans, so can't be god's "Chosen People".
Third is that most Israelis are Turkics from Poland and Russia, like Netanyahu, and have no Mideast heritage at all, in any way.

Oh dear. I kicked a veritable hornet's nest of ignorance.

 

[Rigby5]

It refers to the descendants of Abraham. Meaning the current Jewish state. The Jewish diaspora, the Jews living in Israel.

I didn't enforce a thing. The very citation disputes your and Tucker's reasoning.

Wrong.
Christians and Moslems are also the "descendants of Abraham".
So it does NOT at all mean the "current Jewish state" because currently, all real Jews are supposed to be under the Rabbinical Diaspora Decree of 160 AD, and stay OUT of the Mideast.
Those in Israel are in violation of the Diaspora Decree, and are desecrating 2000 years of atonement for the sins of arrogance and pride.

 

[Rigby5]

What on Earth are you talking about?

Its very simple, modern Zionists, like Netanyahu, are Polish, of Turkic descent, and have no Mideast heritage at all.
Netanyahu is NOT a descendant of Abraham.

 

[Rigby5]

Neither you nor buttercup has enough biblical knowledge to counter my arguments.

Furthermore, I just cited Genesis 12:3. It's clear what God meant; it's clear he foresaw the 12 tribes and their descendants merging into one nation of peoples.

Wrong.
Real Jews follow the Rabbinical Diaspora Decree of 160 AD and stay out of the Mideast.

And any ethical people to not try to invade an innocent country and steal it from the natives.

 

[buttercup]

You know, this doesn't even begin to address your earlier claim that Genesis 12:3 does not extend to the current population of Earth.

You said, and I quote, "all who are the true (spiritual) seed of Abraham have eternal life and will ALWAYS belong to God."

And by that token, that means us, right? Not just the physical descendants of Abraham, but everyone, physical or spiritual.

I'm sorry but you're not making any sense to me. Maybe you misunderstood me.

No, I never said everyone. Someone else said that, not me. I repeatedly stated all who are in Christ! How did you get "everyone" out of that? Are you a Christian? If so, you know that Jesus IS God. What God cares about is FAITH... not race or ethnicity or nationality.

There are so many scriptures I could post on this topic, but for the sake of time, I'll keep it short for now.

Please read this:

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For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God. - Romans 2:28-29​

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Also:​

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But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. - Romans 9:6-8​

​

The "children of promise" is all who come to God through FAITH in Jesus....not through race or anything else.

 

[Rigby5]

I think you go against God if you go after anybody out of prejudice or irrational hatred.

I do believe the forces of evil in universe whether we call that Satan or whatever has targeted God's chosen people for all of its recorded history. I also believe God has saved at least a remnant of those people to carry on as indicated in Biblical manuscripts and as observed in more modern history.

The Jewish people have been overcome and and dispersed by various conquerers as recorded in Biblical manuscripts. It is believed the later New Testament manuscripts were written after the Romans drove most of the Jews from Jerusalem and Israel in 70 A.D. and destroyed the temple there. That accounts for Jewish populations throughout Europe or, more specifically, what was once the Roman Empire.

In their much more recent history, most were driven from Russia and what is now the Ukraine in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century and most from Germany in the mid 20th Century.

Yes the remnants from those histories are of European descent but that makes them no less the Jews who are God's chosen people.

These are amazing people. They constitute 1/5th of 1% of the world's population but their contribution to the advancement of civilization and the greater good. They hold more than 1/5th of all Nobel prizes awarded and are credited with many innovations, inventions, creations far beyond what their tiny numbers would expect.

Yes Christianity I believe is of God too. The JudeoChristian history has influenced the entire world far more than any other events/forces/concepts put together.

But I personally believe it goes against God to scorn the Jews.

It is NOT "scorning the Jews" to arrest them for obvious crimes, like stealing Palestine from the actual natives who paid for and own all the properties.

They clearly are NOT the "Chosen People" if the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Seleucids, and Romans can so easily defeat them.

 

[Rigby5]

Honestly, with the Bible so easily available to you, you choose not to read it, if only for educational purposes.

Please, don't lecture other Christians about what the Bible says if you know nothing of it yourself.

The Bible obviously is not accurate.
The Jewish states of Israel, Samaria, and Judea only existed for about 200 years, from 1000 BC to about 800 BC.
The Bible would falsely have you believe there was always a Jewish state, and that is false.
The Romans did recreate a fake Juda around 100 BC., but King Herod was really a Roman who only pretended to convert.

 

[Rigby5]

In their much more recent history, most were driven from Russia and what is now the Ukraine in the late 19th Century and early 20th Century and most from Germany in the mid 20th Century.

Yes the remnants from those histories are of European descent but that makes them no less the Jews who are God's chosen people.

Wrong.
The Polish and Russian Jews are of Turkic descent and are from the Khazars who converted around 900 AD.
They are not descendants of Abraham at all, in any way.

{...
The Khazars (/ˈxɑːzɑːrz/) were a nomadic Turkic people who, in the late 6th century CE, established a major commercial empire covering the southeastern section of modern European Russia, southern Ukraine, Crimea, and Kazakhstan.
...
The ruling elite of the Khazars was said by Judah Halevi and Abraham ibn Daud to have converted to Rabbinic Judaism in the 8th century,
...}

 

[Rigby5]

You know, this doesn't even begin to address your earlier claim that Genesis 12:3 does not extend to the current population of Earth.

You said, and I quote, "all who are the true (spiritual) seed of Abraham have eternal life and will ALWAYS belong to God."

And by that token, that means us, right? Not just the physical descendants of Abraham, but everyone, physical or spiritual.

But it also means that when people like Zionists invade and steal a country like Palestine from the natives, you must resist and punish their crimes.

 

[whitehall]

Why does the word "God" bother the left so much? They hate Catholics but support crazy fundamentalist Islamic regimes because they hate Trump.

 

[Rigby5]

Oh dear. I kicked a veritable hornet's nest of ignorance.

So what do you claim is wrong with what I wrote?

The current Israel is not the Promised Land and the Polish and Russian Zionists are not the Chosen People.

 

[Rigby5]

Why does the word "God" bother the left so much? They hate Catholics but support crazy fundamentalist Islamic regimes because they hate Trump.

Islam is just a slight reformation of Judaism.
You can't accept one without also accepting all 3 Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

And if you compare the 3, it is Islam that wins, because Judaism has atrocities like stoning women, massacring the Canaanite women and children at Jericho, etc., and Christianity has the evil crusades, inquisitions, conquistadors, etc.

 

[Foxfyre]

Good points

Well no one itt is scorning Jews. Through history there have been anti Jews…. Most notably white German Christians in ww2 who took part in the holocaust…and who were opposed by Christians, Jews, atheists, Muslims and Hindus from the Allied forces.

Personally I have always praised the Soviet and American Jewish soldiers who fought Nazism in ww2.

Well even inside Israel there is a great vigorous debate among Zionists including criticism of their government.

As for this “Gods Chosen” the Catholic Church and the Gospels speak of good neighbors from all different backgrounds. As do other religions.

We can see there is good and bad in all groups of people.

Russia did not fight Nazisim on behalf of the Jews or for any other altruistic motives. Stalin fought the Nazis because the Nazis attacked Russia. Prior to that Russia was not an Ally of the Allied Forces and most likely would not have become one.

Certainly Russian or German or any other Jewish people were not on his mind as Stalin entered Russia into WWII/

Stalin's relationship with Jews is a mixed bag wavering between using them cooperatively when it suited him and otherwise seriously repressing Jewish people. Antisemitism significantly escalated in post war Russia under Stalin. Many believe Stalin planned his own Holocaust of the Jews. His predecessor and he both deported many Jews from Russian held territories, many to gulags deep inside Russia. More than a million Jews would escape Soviet Russia during that time and relocated to Israel.

A Zionist is merely one who believes Israel was the promised land given to the Jews many thousands of years ago and that it is the right of every Jew to return to/go to Israel whether or not that option is taken. It is Jewish law that all Jews from anywhere have the right to immigrate to Israel.

In that regard I am a Zionist though I am not Jewish, so far as I know, and would have to go through a much more strenuous and difficult immigration process in order to move there.

 

[Foxfyre]

Wrong.
The Polish and Russian Jews are of Turkic descent and are from the Khazars who converted around 900 AD.
They are not descendants of Abraham at all, in any way.

{...
The Khazars (/ˈxɑːzɑːrz/) were a nomadic Turkic people who, in the late 6th century CE, established a major commercial empire covering the southeastern section of modern European Russia, southern Ukraine, Crimea, and Kazakhstan.
...
The ruling elite of the Khazars was said by Judah Halevi and Abraham ibn Daud to have converted to Rabbinic Judaism in the 8th century,
...}

Show your evidence from a credible source or else you're just spewing what you want to believe.

You yourself could be a descendant of Abraham as there are thousands of years gaps in the geneological histories. Prove that you are not. If you cannot do that then neither can you prove who the Russian Jews descended from going back many thousands of years.

There is nothing in Israeli law that requires a person to show a familial link with Abraham. All Jews are welcome to move there however.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Islam is just a slight reformation of Judaism.
You can't accept one without also accepting all 3 Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

And if you compare the 3, it is Islam that wins, because Judaism has atrocities like stoning women, massacring the Canaanite women and children at Jericho, etc., and Christianity has the evil crusades, inquisitions, conquistadors, etc.

You’re riddled with it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So what do you claim is wrong with what I wrote?

The current Israel is not the Promised Land and the Polish and Russian Zionists are not the Chosen People.

You have already demonstrated yourself to be someone who wears the tin foil hat.

So your claims are already suspect.

As far as the current Israel not being the Promised Land...

https://x.com/i/grok/share/7nwFFknIRmVGJwPbr2YXSlNXv

And as far as "Russian Zionists" go:

https://x.com/i/grok/share/65M7AfD3RAncfNobwhZuxMAYS

 

[JWBooth]

Odd how so many abandon The Gospels, The Acts, and the letters to embrace the Talmud, yet claim Christianity as their faith.
The Christ is the culmination of the Old Testament prophecy, his church the New Israel made up of gentiles and Jewish believers.
The Christ and Christians are despised, denied, and rejected by the Jews of modern Israel just as the ancients did when they chose Barabbas over the Messiah.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Russia did not fight Nazisim on behalf of the Jews or for any other altruistic motives. Stalin fought the Nazis because the Nazis attacked Russia. Prior to that Russia was not an Ally of the Allied Forces and most likely would not have become one.

Certainly Russian or German or any other Jewish people were not on his mind as Stalin entered Russia into WWII/

Stalin's relationship with Jews is a mixed bag wavering between using them cooperatively when it suited him and otherwise seriously repressing Jewish people. Antisemitism significantly escalated in post war Russia under Stalin. Many believe Stalin planned his own Holocaust of the Jews. His predecessor and he both deported many Jews from Russian held territories, many to gulags deep inside Russia. More than a million Jews would escape Soviet Russia during that time and relocated to Israel.

A Zionist is merely one who believes Israel was the promised land given to the Jews many thousands of years ago and that it is the right of every Jew to return to/go to Israel whether or not that option is taken. It is Jewish law that all Jews from anywhere have the right to immigrate to Israel.

In that regard I am a Zionist though I am not Jewish, so far as I know, and would have to go through a much more strenuous and difficult immigration process in order to move there.

Although I disagree with your assessment of Soviet Jews all of that above is interesting.

I’m not against Zionist. I’m not against the existence of the modern day state of Israel. But I feel very comfortable in agreeing with Tucker Carlson and many others that one is not going against God if they criticize the current government of Israel and… really what were talking about is an element of the government not the entire government.

Well there are Jews in Israel who are far more critical of Netanyahu compared to myself. Well this point is probably the most important point of all because if I am disagreeing with a Jew in Israel who is adamantly against Netanyahu, does that mean I’m going against God? So which one is it which politician in Israel do I have to disagree with to go against God.?

That’s the point I think you understand it I don’t know if our friend TemplarKormac understand that this is what I am saying.

That’s why somebody is not going against God if they criticize the current government of Israel.

If we want to do our best to follow the Lord in my opinion we have to look at things like the 10 Commandments, the New Testament, the Catholic Church… of course I’m talking about if somebody is a Christian perhaps or a Catholic which represents more than 1 billion Christians in the world.

 

[my2¢]

We'd be a much safer country if we'd quit sticking our nose and telling other countries how to handle their business.

 

[whitehall]

Islam is just a slight reformation of Judaism.
You can't accept one without also accepting all 3 Abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

And if you compare the 3, it is Islam that wins, because Judaism has atrocities like stoning women, massacring the Canaanite women and children at Jericho, etc., and Christianity has the evil crusades, inquisitions, conquistadors, etc.

You can go back to the Neanderthal times to justify modern atrocities if you are ignorant enough and hateful enough.