Why do so many liberal Jews support the antisemitic BDS movement?

[Lisa558]

Another thing there are none of are actual liberals in this thread.

They are authoritarian leftists who despise every liberal principle imaginable.

Yes. Perhaps I need to make a distinction between traditional liberals and the dictatorial leftists who have hijacked the Democratic Party.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Yes. You can oppose the policies of a state but the BDS seeks to delegitimize and destroy Israel. It is supported by virulent antisemites.

BDS antisemites are opposed to the very existence of the Jewish State. There are many Muslim-majority countries and Christian majority countries. Why can’t the world allow Jews, who have been persecuted longer and worse than any minority in existence, ONE single country from which they can get refuge should antisemitism continue to worsen?

And I never said the Jews who March alongside antisemites aren‘t real Jews. I said they are prioritizing their liberal world viewpoint of “oppressed/oppressor” over their Judaism.

These antisemites always pull the same sleight of hand. They support those who seek genocide of Jews. They deny Jews any right to defend themselves. They accuse Jews of all manner of perfidy, lie and distort in pursuit of their agenda to destroy tham and obsess about this one tiny little state that represents their self determination. They, then turn around and try to clim that aren't allowed ANY criticism of the Jewish state.

They are dishonest to the core.

 

[Lisa558]

Well, the Trump political movement also attracted some of the most vile white supremacists and neo nazies to it’s support. Does that mean it is anti Semitic and racist?



True, South Africa was the last major boycott movement I recall. However other countries have had and currently have government sanctions forbidding trade and other things (which is a basically a boycott).

I agree that Israel tends to get outsized attention compared to say, Myanmar, who’s human rights atrocities are far far worse.

But I support boycotts. They a way of non violently pressuring for change.



Those are arguments that have been rehashed ad nauseum in the IP forum.


You already have with your baiting OP. Was your intent otherwise?



Are you a Trump voter? Why are willing to March shoulder to shoulder with people yelling “Jews will not replace us”

Ok, first I am new here and can’t figure how you break out parts of posts to respond, so I will answer just your last one:

I do NOT march shoulder to shoulder with that minor and inconsequential group of antisemites who yelled ”Jews will not replace us.” Are you f’in kidding me?! I would have nothing to do with a fringe group of Jew-haters.

OTOH, we DO have Jews marching shoulder to shoulder with a large and international movement yelling “Get out, Jews!” They are active in the movement, joining forces with David Duke who says Jews are out to destroy the world.

The two are not comparable.

 

[Lisa558]

These antisemites always pull the same sleight of hand. They support those who seek genocide of Jews. They deny Jews any right to defend themselves. They accuse Jews of all manner of perfidy, lie and distort in pursuit of their agenda to destroy tham and obsess about this one tiny little state that represents their self determination. They, then turn around and try to clim that aren't allowed ANY criticism of the Jewish state.

They are dishonest to the core.

Absolutely true. And what they are doing by that is insisting that they are allowed ANY false condemnation they want. They want to get away with claiming Israel is a racist, apartheid, ethnic-cleansing country - while barely making a peep over what Iran and Syria does. Or what about Myanmar (sp?) and the absolutely horrific treatment of Muslims in that country? Nary a word.

It is obvious to everyone by the most leftist “oppressor/oppressed” types that Israel is targeted via BDS due to the antisemitism driving it.

 

[Coyote]

Yes. You can oppose the policies of a state but the BDS seeks to delegitimize and destroy Israel. It is supported by virulent antisemites.

BDS antisemites are opposed to the very existence of the Jewish State. There are many Muslim-majority countries and Christian majority countries. Why can’t the world allow Jews, who have been persecuted longer and worse than any minority in existence, ONE single country from which they can get refuge should antisemitism continue to worsen?

And I never said the Jews who March alongside antisemites aren‘t real Jews. I said they are prioritizing their liberal world viewpoint of “oppressed/oppressor” over their Judaism.

But are they? Does being Jewish mean prioritizing a political point of view supporting the actions of a modern state over religious values of justice and compassion? Also, isn’t the dynamic of oppressed/oppressor and escape from oppression a key theme to the Jewish story? Jews have long identified with those movements including civil rights movement.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

One thing to remember is that the entire creation of this so-called "Palestinian" people is a completely modern fabrication and one crafted for the purposes of propaganda. before the middle part of the 20th century, there was no "Palestinian" people -- simply Arabs. In fact, pan Arabism was all the rage. They identified only as Arabs and their solidarity was with other Arabs. There was nothing at all to distinguish the Arabs of the Levant with any other Arabs.

One thing the Arabs in the Levant did have going for them was their close association with the Nazis in WW2. Raj, al Husseini was a card carrying Nazi and Mufti of Jerusalem who had been promised the extermination of Jews. Along with this close assosiation between al Husseini and the al Husseini clan came anunderstaning of the techniques of propaganda as developed by Goebels and others.

Before and soon after the six day war, an Egyptian member of the al-Husseini clan rose to prominance, and changed his name from al-Husseini to Yasser Arafat to disassociate himself from the Nazi stigma. He still believed in all the Nazi ideology, however, as well as their techniques of propaganda, and so strongly encouraged Arabs to start referring to themselves as "Palestinian", instead. You see, by doing so, he was able to change world perception from one of Arabs with all their collective might against Jews to one of Jews (who had just defended themselves against the Arab attempt at genocide) against those poor widdle "Palestians" . An entire propaganda apparatus was also created selling the idea of "palestinian" victimhood to profoundly ignorant westerners and the rest is history.

 

[Coyote]

Ok, first I am new here and can’t figure how you break out parts of posts to respond, so I will answer just your last one:

I do NOT march shoulder to shoulder with that minor and inconsequential group of antisemites who yelled ”Jews will not replace us.” Are you f’in kidding me?! I would have nothing to do with a fringe group of Jew-haters.

OTOH, we DO have Jews marching shoulder to shoulder with a large and international movement yelling “Get out, Jews!” They are active in the movement, joining forces with David Duke who says Jews are out to destroy the world.

The two are not comparable.

Yes they are comparable. Why would Jews support a movement that includes members who despise them. That is your key question right?

 

[surada]

First, before liberals rush in to claim that BDS is not anti-Jew but merely anti-Israel, know that BDS has indeed been recognized as an antisemitic movement. (Links below.)

Now, given that BDS provides an outlet for antisemites to express their Jew-hatred as well as actively promoting it, the question is: Why do liberal Jews support a major antisemitic movement?

My theory is they, like all liberals, divide people (as groups) into “oppressed” and “oppressors.” That is why you see liberals race in to defend blacks, gays, illegal aliens (and also go soft on criminals), all of whom they see oppressed. And so too with the Palestinians (who elected the terrorist Islamic group HAMAS to lead them). Then, on the other side, liberals oppose those they see as “oppressors” - successful business owners, white males, and Christians. Into this group they out Israelis - an advanced and successful group.

Therein lies the dilemma. Do liberals Jews march against their own people, advancing and supporting antisemitism, because a group of them are viewed - mostly by libersls - as oppressors? The answer is YES: their liberalism trumps their Judaism.

BDS Israel boycott group is anti-Semitic, says US

The pro-Palestinian movement rejects the move, saying it stands against "all forms of racism".

www.bbc.com

https://cdn.fedweb.org/fed-24/2/2019_IAN_AntiSemitism_One-Sheet_June_11_2019.pdf

How did you feel about the boycots over aparthied South Africa from the 1960s?

Jews have been strongly for civil rights.. Your exception is evidently civil rights in Israel.

 

[Lisa558]

Yes they are comparable. Why would Jews support a movement that includes members who despise them. That is your key question right?

No, not comparable. One is an inconsequential little movement of a Jew-haters, and the other is a massive movement to harm the one and only ”Jew State.”

The other thing is Jews are NOT supporting the little neo-Nazi fringe group. But they ARE actively supporting the major BDS movement.

(As an aside, I see you are a moderator. Is there a punishment for arguing with a moderator? If there is, I’ll stop now.)

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Are you a liberal, also? BDS has among its biggest supporters the most virulent Jew-haters, including the Great Wizard (or whateves it’s called) of the KKK.

What’s interesting is that you don’t see any other people on a massive boycott against other countries that are far worse to Muslims. No, the venom and anger is directed solely to Israel - and it is that double-standard that is indicative of antisemitism.

It’s like the U.N. They have issued substantially more resolutions condemning Israel than they have for Iran and Syria COMBINED. That targeted condemnation is driven by their hostility to Jews.

Anyway, I don’t want this to turn into a thread in which the liberals come out with more Israel hate (apartheid! Ethnic cleansing!) since we know where they stand. I want to focus on why Jews are willing to march shoulder to shoulder with Antisemites yelling “get out, Jews.”

The problem, here, is that this very site commits itself to antisemitism as you can see in this thread as it seeks to engineer any and all discussions towards the Jew hating point of view.

You are, of course, correct about all these double standards, but this site is quite dedicated to promoting them.

 

[Lisa558]

One thing to remember is that the entire creation of this so-called "Palestinian" people is a completely modern fabrication and one crafted for the purposes of propaganda. before the middle part of the 20th century, there was no "Palestinian" people -- simply Arabs. In fact, pan Arabism was all the rage. They identified only as Arabs and their solidarity was with other Arabs. There was nothing at all to distinguish the Arabs of the Levant with any other Arabs.

One thing the Arabs in the Levant did have going for them was their close association with the Nazis in WW2. Raj, al Husseini was a card carrying Nazi and Mufti of Jerusalem who had been promised the extermination of Jews. Along with this close assosiation between al Husseini and the al Husseini clan came anunderstaning of the techniques of propaganda as developed by Goebels and others.

Before and soon after the six day war, an Egyptian member of the al-Husseini clan rose to prominance, and changed his name from al-Husseini to Yasser Arafat to disassociate himself from the Nazi stigma. He still believed in all the Nazi ideology, however, as well as their techniques of propaganda, and so strongly encouraged Arabs to start referring to themselves as "Palestinian", instead. You see, by doing so, he was able to change world perception from one of Arabs with all their collective might against Jews to one of Jews (who had just defended themselves against the Arab attempt at genocide) against those poor widdle "Palestians" . An entire propaganda apparatus was also created selling the idea of "palestinian" victimhood to profoundly ignorant westerners and the rest is history.

Thank you again! You are very knowledgeable.

 

[surada]

One thing to remember is that the entire creation of this so-called "Palestinian" people is a completely modern fabrication and one crafted for the purposes of propaganda. before the middle part of the 20th century, there was no "Palestinian" people -- simply Arabs. In fact, pan Arabism was all the rage. They identified only as Arabs and their solidarity was with other Arabs. There was nothing at all to distinguish the Arabs of the Levant with any other Arabs.

One thing the Arabs in the Levant did have going for them was their close association with the Nazis in WW2. Raj, al Husseini was a card carrying Nazi and Mufti of Jerusalem who had been promised the extermination of Jews. Along with this close assosiation between al Husseini and the al Husseini clan came anunderstaning of the techniques of propaganda as developed by Goebels and others.

Before and soon after the six day war, an Egyptian member of the al-Husseini clan rose to prominance, and changed his name from al-Husseini to Yasser Arafat to disassociate himself from the Nazi stigma. He still believed in all the Nazi ideology, however, as well as their techniques of propaganda, and so strongly encouraged Arabs to start referring to themselves as "Palestinian", instead. You see, by doing so, he was able to change world perception from one of Arabs with all their collective might against Jews to one of Jews (who had just defended themselves against the Arab attempt at genocide) against those poor widdle "Palestians" . An entire propaganda apparatus was also created selling the idea of "palestinian" victimhood to profoundly ignorant westerners and the rest is history.

They were always called Palestinians .. and that included Christians, Muslims and Jews. ..not European Zionists. That lie is an Israeli construct.

"Palestinians", both Christians and Muslims, lived in my town in 1950.

 

[Lisa558]

The problem, here, is that this very site commits itself to antisemitism as you can see in this thread as it seeks to engineer any and all discussions towards the Jew hating point of view.

You are, of course, correct about all these double standards, but this site is quite dedicated to promoting them.

Thanks once more. I am wary that a moderator joined in to negate that BDS is antisemitic. He defended them by saying it was only under Trump that they were identified as antiSemitic, but what would one expect? That the anti-Israel Democrats, who elected the antiSemitic Omar and Tlaib, would do anything to quash an antSemitic, Israel-hating movement? It’s the leftists cheering it on!

 

[Dogmaphobe]

(As an aside, I see you are a moderator. Is there a punishment for arguing with a moderator? If there is, I’ll stop now.)

I do wish you would continue because voices of truth need to be heard.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

They were always called Palestinians .. and that included Christians, Muslims and Jews. ..not European Zionists. That lie is an Israeli construct.

"Palestinians", both Christians and Muslims, lived in my town in 1950.

You lie.

THere is a famous diatribe by Jordan's King Abdullah dating from 1947, which you, yourself have referenced in your extreme hatred of Jews and it's called "As the Arabs see the Jews".

In it, there is not so much as one single mention of this fictitious "Palestinian" people of yours, only Arabs.

 

[Lisa558]

I do wish you would continue because voices of truth need to be heard.

Thanks. My question is (since I’m new) is how does it work when a moderator enters the fray? I see he is obviously liberal and against what I am saying. Is there a punishment for “fighting” with a moderator? Does one get banned? I know that banNing conservatives has become a big problem, and I wonder how it works here.

 

[cnm]

First, before liberals rush in to claim that BDS is not anti-Jew but merely anti-Israel, know that BDS has indeed been recognized as an antisemitic movement. (Links below.)

BDS Israel boycott group is anti-Semitic, says US

The pro-Palestinian movement rejects the move, saying it stands against "all forms of racism".

www.bbc.com

Pretty funny, the idea that because Pompeo says something it is so.

 

[Lisa558]

Pretty funny, the idea that because Pompeo says something it is so.

Many people and groups have identified BDS for what is is - a movement driven by and simultaneously advancing antisemitism.

The degree to which leftists excuse and tolerate an antisemitic movement while they call everything and anything racist against blscks (even AP courses and programs for gifted children) is downright chilling.

 

[surada]

You lie.

THere is a famous diatribe by Jordan's King Abdullah dating from 1947, which you, yourself have referenced in your extreme hatred of Jews and it's called "As the Arabs see the Jews".

In it, there is not so much as one single mention of this fictitious "Palestinian" people of yours, only Arabs.

I have read As an Arab Sees the Jews. Do you understand what he's saying? There population doubled with European refugees in a period of 5 years.

They had Palestinian stamps, currency and Newspapers. The Turkish census of 1870 indicated the numbers of Arabs who lived in Palestine by Muslims, Christians and Jews. They didn't even try to count the Negev Bedouin.

The people who lived there were NOT Ottoman Turks.. They were Palestinians NOT European immigrants.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Thanks once more. I am wary that a moderator joined in to negate that BDS is antisemitic. He defended them by saying it was only under Trump that they were identified as antiSemitic, but what would one expect? That the anti-Israel Democrats, who elected the antiSemitic Omar and Tlaib, would do anything to quash an antSemitic, Israel-hating movement? It’s the leftists cheering it on!

There is that old line from Orwell "In the land of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act". Being a revolutionary certainly sets up a person for much abuse and targeting, but I am not willing to submit.

One of the biggest obstacles to telling the truth has to do with people's inability to understand the nature of the argumentum ad populum. The opinion they hear the most is the one they believe and when you add in the conformist nature of people as they settle upon their tribal identity, it becomes nigh on impossible to get through. The left has degenerated to the point where any opinion OTHER than wanting Israel destroyed generates such condemnation and derision from the left that defending against the targeting of a tiny number of jewish people by the massive might of the Islamic and antisemitic western world has all but disappeared from leftist discourse.

There are 16 million Jews in the world, but well over a billion Muslims and who knows how many billions who simply hate Jews. It is a numbers game here, and the haters use their numerical advantage to persecute the tiny mminority. They do so as true believers feeling they are absolutely RIGHTEOUS in this persecution, and no amount of reason will ever disuade them from their antsemitic mission.