Zone1 Why do members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Baptize for the Dead?

[Meriweather]

The billions who we will do are not here.

First, regarding Post #450. He is not a member here, so he and I cannot have a discussion; therefore, I have ignored Post #450 as I do all other such posts.

Analogy: Jesus noted that no one comes to the Father except through him. With its proxy "baptism", LDS is claiming no one comes to Jesus Christ except through LDS. In this, LDS has set themselves up as the circus, with Jesus as a sideshow, where one must have an LDS ticket (in the form of proxy "baptism") in order to see Jesus--i.e., LDS has placed themselves over Christ.

Recall Jesus stated that he is one with the Father. LDS cannot state it is one with Jesus Christ.

Note, after the crucifixion when Jesus descended to the dead, all those he freed had not been baptized. Jesus reached out to all, and was able to do this without any organization and their proxies providing entry tickets.

Recall, many who are baptized are professing they are entering The Way--in Greek, hodos) of living this life. There is a similar word in Judaism meaning walking with God in this life. Quakers were so adamant about this, they chose to forego baptism (a one time event) in favor of focusing on this daily walk. It is how they lived their baptism of the spirit.

Point: Will (or can) LDS listen to people of God, who forego the LDS church and how they are trampling on the holy ground, the holy lives, of others?

 

[GLASNOST]

Analogy: Jesus noted that no one comes to the Father except through him.

Correct.

With its proxy "baptism", LDS is claiming no one comes to Jesus Christ except through LDS.

THIS is the whole point and the reason the Mormons are out of their minds and are a Cult. This is what Cultism is all about.

 

[Meriweather]

THIS is the whole point and the reason the Mormons are out of their minds and are a Cult. This is what Cultism is all about.

I am not so harsh about the LDS church. For a number of reasons (and some probably good) LDS tends to put themselves above all else--and could not care less who/what they fell they must tear down in order to achieve that place. They change words, passages, interpretations in books, then claim it supports them. That's what I mean about either the people or their leaders make that church all about them and their sought-after position, not about Christ.

Still, Christ is a part of their teaching, and I have great faith in what God and His spirit can work with to bring about perfection to those who call on His name. Some Christians actually laugh at their proxy "baptisms" saying, "How cute. There they are playing church again." I don't want to be patronizing. On the other hand proxy "baptism" is not right for reasons I have already stated.

If they wish to be members of the Body of Christ, not rule over the Body of Christ, they will need to rethink some of their practices. However, that idea that they will become god, themselves, is going to stand in the way of this. They believe they are destined to become gods, not partake in the one God's divinity.

 

[GLASNOST]

..... LDS tends to put themselves above all else

There's the first problem.

They change words, passages, interpretations in books, then claim it supports them.

There's the second problem.

Still, Christ is a part of their teaching,

No, I don't believe that and that's the third problem.

.... proxy "baptism" is not right ......

Absolutely not right and that's the fourth and biggest problem. This is the proof that Mormonism is a Cult and does not follow Christ. Mormonism puts itself above Christ but much more important is that Mormonism puts itself above God. Whether you believe in Christ or not is unimportant. Believeing in God is the most important. Mormonism does not believe in God. Mormonism thinks it is God and that makes Mormonism a Cult ..... a Satanic Cult.

 

[Robert W]

View attachment 1216246

 

[GLASNOST]

... the LDS church. .... not about Christ. Still, Christ is a part of their teaching ......

No, I don't believe that ..... Mormonism puts itself above Christ but more important is that it puts itself above God. ..... Mormonism does not believe in God. Mormonism thinks it is God and that makes Mormonism a Cult ..... a Satanic Cult ...

... and here is something that supports my view:

 

[Robert W]

They change words, passages, interpretations in books, then claim it supports them. That's what I mean about either the people or their leaders make that church all about them and their sought-after position, not about Christ.

Surely you have proof. Even Glasnost has no proof. He merely agrees with you.

 

[GLASNOST]

 

[Cougarbear]

There is no peace in you.

I’m very peaceful. However, I’ve covenanted with the Lord to share my peace with others so they may know their salvation can be ensured. That’s peace! How can you be at peace knowing your ancestors are damned without baptism?

 

[Cougarbear]

First, regarding Post #450. He is not a member here, so he and I cannot have a discussion; therefore, I have ignored Post #450 as I do all other such posts.

Analogy: Jesus noted that no one comes to the Father except through him. With its proxy "baptism", LDS is claiming no one comes to Jesus Christ except through LDS. In this, LDS has set themselves up as the circus, with Jesus as a sideshow, where one must have an LDS ticket (in the form of proxy "baptism") in order to see Jesus--i.e., LDS has placed themselves over Christ.

Recall Jesus stated that he is one with the Father. LDS cannot state it is one with Jesus Christ.

Note, after the crucifixion when Jesus descended to the dead, all those he freed had not been baptized. Jesus reached out to all, and was able to do this without any organization and their proxies providing entry tickets.

Recall, many who are baptized are professing they are entering The Way--in Greek, hodos) of living this life. There is a similar word in Judaism meaning walking with God in this life. Quakers were so adamant about this, they chose to forego baptism (a one time event) in favor of focusing on this daily walk. It is how they lived their baptism of the spirit.

Point: Will (or can) LDS listen to people of God, who forego the LDS church and how they are trampling on the holy ground, the holy lives, of others?

“Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, amen.”
Having been commissioned means given authority to bring the person being baptized to Jesus Christ. So, you are incorrect that people go through the Church to get to the Father. I would also point out that that your Catholic Church baptizes as well little babies. If baptism is unneeded, why do you do it? I could easily say Catholics believe the way to the Father is through the Catholic Church without commissioned.

But, the question is what about those not baptized and die? Your answer is nowhere found in the Bible. All assumptions that you think Jesus took care of the requirement of baptism. Are you saying he preached another gospel to the dead? What does the Bible say about preaching another gospel? False prophet, teacher and Christ. Doesn’t it! I’m going to confidently say Jesus Christ preached the same gospel to the dead in spirit prison. That includes the requirement of an earthly baptism. As Paul said to the Corinthians, you are doing baptisms for the dead because we all will be resurrected. This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Cougarbear]

I am not so harsh about the LDS church. For a number of reasons (and some probably good) LDS tends to put themselves above all else--and could not care less who/what they fell they must tear down in order to achieve that place. They change words, passages, interpretations in books, then claim it supports them. That's what I mean about either the people or their leaders make that church all about them and their sought-after position, not about Christ.

Still, Christ is a part of their teaching, and I have great faith in what God and His spirit can work with to bring about perfection to those who call on His name. Some Christians actually laugh at their proxy "baptisms" saying, "How cute. There they are playing church again." I don't want to be patronizing. On the other hand proxy "baptism" is not right for reasons I have already stated.

If they wish to be members of the Body of Christ, not rule over the Body of Christ, they will need to rethink some of their practices. However, that idea that they will become god, themselves, is going to stand in the way of this. They believe they are destined to become gods, not partake in the one God's divinity.

All your objections are about what you think. Not one thing is supported by the Bible. It’s all based on your interpretations.
Baptism for the dead is in the Bible
Preaching to the dead is in the Bible.
We are gods is all over the Bible from Genesis to Revelations.
Authority is all over the Bible

Everything we teach is in the Bible.

 

[GLASNOST]

I’m very peaceful.

No, you are not. The way you express yourself in anger and the use of personal insults and slander all through the pages of this thread proves that you are not peaceful.

I’ve covenanted with the Lord to share my peace with others

By your anger and slanderous insults? Is that what you call “sharing peace”?

…. so they may know their salvation can be ensured.

My relationship with God is already secure and calling Mormonism & other Cults out pleases God very much. He relies upon me (and many others) to help members of Cults be aware of what is happening to them so they can make better choices.

How can you be at peace knowing your ancestors are damned without baptism?

This rhetorical question saddens God. That mortal idiots go about making crazy statements and claim it is God’s will. Only God can work with the dead. God understands the difficulties humans face in life. He knows that we make choices that are available through situations over which we have no control. You and Mormonism are blasphemies.

“Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, amen.”

You cannot be commissioned of someone. You can only be commissioned by someone. In the case of the Mormon Cult you are being commissioned by Demonic forces. Are you commissioned anyway? Sure, but the deed you perform is that of the Devil, not of God.

….. your Catholic Church baptizes as well little babies. If baptism is unneeded, why do you do it?

Catholic baptisms are for the benefit of the Church, not for God. The Cult of Mormonism claims their baptisms are for the benefit of God. This is impossible and to think that you speak for God is the highest blasphemy of all. The First Commandment prohibits very clearly, “… worshipping any god other than the LORD.” (Exodus 20:3-6, Deuteronomy 5:6-10)

 

[Cougarbear]

No, you are not. The way you express yourself in anger and the use of personal insults and slander all through the pages of this thread proves that you are not peaceful.

By your anger and slanderous insults? Is that what you call “sharing peace”?

My relationship with God is already secure and calling Mormonism & other Cults out pleases God very much. He relies upon me (and many others) to help members of Cults be aware of what is happening to them so they can make better choices.

This rhetorical question saddens God. That mortal idiots go about making crazy statements and claim it is God’s will. Only God can work with the dead. God understands the difficulties humans face in life. He knows that we make choices that are available through situations over which we have no control. You and Mormonism are blasphemies.

You cannot be commissioned of someone. You can only be commissioned by someone. In the case of the Mormon Cult you are being commissioned by Demonic forces. Are you commissioned anyway? Sure, but the deed you perform is that of the Devil, not of God.

Catholic baptisms are for the benefit of the Church, not for God. The Cult of Mormonism claims their baptisms are for the benefit of God. This is impossible and to think that you speak for God is the highest blasphemy of all. The First Commandment prohibits very clearly, “… worshipping any god other than the LORD.” (Exodus 20:3-6, Deuteronomy 5:6-10)

I’m explaining my position and opinions. You are throwing temper tantrums and calling us names without any proof whatsoever from the Bible. If you are going to debate this baptism topic, you need to go solely on the Bible and not your Koran. At least Meriweather is doing that somewhat. Although she comes up with opinions with no Biblical support.

 

[GLASNOST]

I’m explaining my position and opinions.

Yes.

You are throwing temper tantrums

I guess you don’t know what a temper tantrum is.

… and calling us names without any proof whatsoever from the Bible.

A Cult is a Cult. A Satanic Cult is what you are representing. I have given you plenty of proof. If you think of it as "calling you names" then suck on it.

If you are going to debate this baptism topic, you need to go solely on the Bible.

God doesn’t authorize you or your Cult to force corpses into submission. Not that it matters to the dead (who have no idea what you are doing) but to their families and loved ones.

and not your Koran.

My Koran is better than your Koran.

Meriweather …... comes up with opinions with no Biblical support.

Meriweather follows the teachings of Christ as stated in the Bible. You do not. The Satanic Cult of Mormonism professes anti-Christ, anti-God positions and opinions. Admit it and flee is my advice to you.

 

[Meriweather]

At least Meriweather is doing that somewhat. Although she comes up with opinions with no Biblical support.

Actually, it is with full Biblical support, down to the Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, and Greek etymologies. The LDS interpretations, on the other hand, are far from these. There is an old saying about instead of sewing a button on a vest, sewing a vest on a button. If you get the distinction, that is what LDS does with scripture...sews to suit itself instead of what the original authors intended.

 

[Meriweather]

Catholic baptisms are for the benefit of the Church, not for God.

Catholic baptism does not benefit the Church, if you are speaking of the organization. Its roots stem from John the Baptist, and Jesus being baptized before beginning his ministry. John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, meaning a change of heart where one gives up worldly strategies and walks with God (Hebrew tradition). Hodos (Greek, meaning The Way). Before Christian and Catholic entered into the description for the followers of Christ, it was known as The Way, and to many, The Way of the Cross. Once again, going back to Hebrew teaching, walking with God. It is a proclamation that instead of being drawn in by worldly practices, we choose Kingdom living and walking The Way of the Cross. This blesses each individual--and together we are the Church--the Body of Christ.

 

[Cougarbear]

Actually, it is with full Biblical support, down to the Hebrew, Aramaic, Latin, and Greek etymologies. The LDS interpretations, on the other hand, are far from these. There is an old saying about instead of sewing a button on a vest, sewing a vest on a button. If you get the distinction, that is what LDS does with scripture...sews to suit itself instead of what the original authors intended.

Of course you are wrong. The problem with translating from those languages to English understanding is it to is full of opinion and interpretations. There’s no doubt we are gods and Jesus clearly said. Joint heirs of God. And, baptism is required. You can’t just make up stuff and make fact. Especially since preaching to the spirit world and baptism for the dead is clearly in the Bible.

 

[Meriweather]

The problem with translating from those languages to English understanding is it to is full of opinion and interpretations. There’s no doubt we are gods and Jesus clearly said. Joint heirs of God. And, baptism is required. You can’t just make up stuff and make fact. Especially since preaching to the spirit world and baptism for the dead is clearly in the Bible.

There is no problem with translating, the problem is with the interpretation. Here is a heads up for you. When and where in the history and anthropology of the Jewish culture did the Israelites take on the belief they would become gods? Nowhere. Their teaching is that there is uncompromising distinction between Creator and human creation, that God is one, unique, and indivisible. One other religion (founded in 1964) called the Nations of Gods and Earths is the only other group that believes men are Gods, and their belief is limited the black man being Allah.

You say, "You can’t just make up stuff and make fact", when--obviously--that is exactly what the LDS Church has done. Do you truly believe that when something is preached in an LDS church, you are preaching to the spirit world? Perhaps you can also note the biblical passages where John-the-Baptist baptized the dead by proxy? Or where Jesus commanded his followers to become proxies for the dead and perform baptisms that way? This was never a mainstream practice, and usually done by Gnostics, who were considered heretical groups. One early Church Father noted it was once a rare practice once done by some in Corinth to emphasize the belief in the resurrection of the body, not because it was needed to get into heaven.

LDS has a quite different belief: Their purpose for baptizing the dead is to connect their family members for all eternity. Yet, nowhere in the Bible is it stated family members stay connected for all eternity. Nowhere in the New Testament is it stated that baptism connects family members for all eternity.

 

[Cougarbear]

There is no problem with translating, the problem is with the interpretation. Here is a heads up for you. When and where in the history and anthropology of the Jewish culture did the Israelites take on the belief they would become gods? Nowhere. Their teaching is that there is uncompromising distinction between Creator and human creation, that God is one, unique, and indivisible. One other religion (founded in 1964) called the Nations of Gods and Earths is the only other group that believes men are Gods, and their belief is limited the black man being Allah.

You say, "You can’t just make up stuff and make fact", when--obviously--that is exactly what the LDS Church has done. Do you truly believe that when something is preached in an LDS church, you are preaching to the spirit world? Perhaps you can also note the biblical passages where John-the-Baptist baptized the dead by proxy? Or where Jesus commanded his followers to become proxies for the dead and perform baptisms that way? This was never a mainstream practice, and usually done by Gnostics, who were considered heretical groups. One early Church Father noted it was once a rare practice once done by some in Corinth to emphasize the belief in the resurrection of the body, not because it was needed to get into heaven.

LDS has a quite different belief: Their purpose for baptizing the dead is to connect their family members for all eternity. Yet, nowhere in the Bible is it stated family members stay connected for all eternity. Nowhere in the New Testament is it stated that baptism connects family members for all eternity.

Don’t ignore. The second answers your question. The first does too.

 

[Cougarbear]

Yes.

I guess you don’t know what a temper tantrum is.

A Cult is a Cult. A Satanic Cult is what you are representing. I have given you plenty of proof. If you think of it as "calling you names" then suck on it.

God doesn’t authorize you or your Cult to force corpses into submission. Not that it matters to the dead (who have no idea what you are doing) but to their families and loved ones.

My Koran is better than your Koran.

Meriweather follows the teachings of Christ as stated in the Bible. You do not. The Satanic Cult of Mormonism professes anti-Christ, anti-God positions and opinions. Admit it and flee is my advice to you.

1Corinthians 15:29. Does Meriweather baptize for the dead? She claims to be a member of the church that existed when Paul said this. No she doesn’t. So, you are wrong. She doesn’t follow the Bible. Not her church.