Why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions?

[FaerieGodfather]

Like I said before, if you think the word "authoritarian" is such a horrible insult, you should probably ask yourself why you ascribe to an authoritarian philosophy.

I never made any value judgments about your belief system; as I have noted repeatedly, I actually agree with you on immigration and border control.

I'm not the one who's trying to put anything over on anybody; you're the one trying to claim that conservatism is opposed to authoritarianism while ignoring all the ways that it is itself an authoritarian worldview and how "conservative" parties are consistently authoritarian in their policies. Before you accuse other people of dishonesty, you should check to make sure you're being honest with yourself.

 

[Muhammed]

What is wrong with protectionism?

Ask american exporters...

It's no skin off their back.

 

[The Rabbi]

Adn no one can show otherwise.

Eh, yeah, I do believe they did show otherwise, see below.

Because immigration is changing the lives of Americans, that's why.

Immigrants are lowering our wages in this country, they are taking American jobs that Americans should have, they are changing us to a bilingual country because they come here without knowing the language and expect us to cater to them instead of the other way around. They are earning American dollars here and sending it back over the border to spend over there.

Wages are a supply and demand process. The lower the supply and higher the demand, prices go up. The higher the supply and lower demand, prices go down.

We can't increase our wages when we have an endless supply of workers coming into this country.

It is within our borders. Movement of free labor does not mean totally unregulated labor. That's cheating the system. Freedom of labor within our borders is a conservative principle, not importing labor

Asserting something is not the same thing as proving it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Because immigration is changing the lives of Americans, that's why.

Immigrants are lowering our wages in this country, they are taking American jobs that Americans should have, they are changing us to a bilingual country because they come here without knowing the language and expect us to cater to them instead of the other way around. They are earning American dollars here and sending it back over the border to spend over there.

Wages are a supply and demand process. The lower the supply and higher the demand, prices go up. The higher the supply and lower demand, prices go down.

We can't increase our wages when we have an endless supply of workers coming into this country.

The same workers should start at least some businesses, besides that the cheap labor ultimately makes for cheaper prices.

The jobs killing mexicans argument is not particularly well thought out IMHO. If you think you can't compete with an unskilled mexican, perhaps you should ask whether the public education is doing you any good... oh wait... it isn't. Anyway, it appears that the mexicans are a different breed of immigrants than the muslim rapugees.

I have my doubts that Trump is going to do much about the mexican "problem". Perhaps the wall will get built, or not.

It will cost about $40 Billion to deport all the illegals here. Think of how much we could buy with that money.

All the welfare we give them costs us $200 billion/year. $40 billion to get rid of them is a bargain.

How much is their labor worth collectively? We will lose all that.

Who is "we?" What do I care if the immigrant is no longer working here? He's also not consuming or sucking down government benefits.

We is the American people.
You see people are liabilities. That is inherently a liberal/progressive worldview. I see people as resources.
The truth is that illegal immigrants, being younger and healthier, use far less resources than similar classes of Americans.

 

[Dr Grump]

Germany is an enormous exporter despite having some of the highest labor rates in the world. How do you explain that?

A better form of govt, and a much more practical - as opposed to emotional - way of dealing with economics. I won't even go into the quality of product they produce....

How is a better form of gov't responsible for making their products competitive?

A much more inclusive govt that just doesn't look out for the lobbyist of the day to support them. Too many regs in the US. You have local. Then you have state. Then you have federal. All adds to the bottom line....

 

[Dr Grump]

[
Quit deflecting. More people are working today, despite Dem policies, than ever before. Yeah no jobs in America.
Auto industry is doing great. BMW in South Carolina, Mercedes in Alabama, Nissan in TN, VW in TN.
Why do you ask?

Oh, so Obama got something right? Cool

Yeah, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, VW - great American brands.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The same workers should start at least some businesses, besides that the cheap labor ultimately makes for cheaper prices.

The jobs killing mexicans argument is not particularly well thought out IMHO. If you think you can't compete with an unskilled mexican, perhaps you should ask whether the public education is doing you any good... oh wait... it isn't. Anyway, it appears that the mexicans are a different breed of immigrants than the muslim rapugees.

I have my doubts that Trump is going to do much about the mexican "problem". Perhaps the wall will get built, or not.

It will cost about $40 Billion to deport all the illegals here. Think of how much we could buy with that money.

All the welfare we give them costs us $200 billion/year. $40 billion to get rid of them is a bargain.

How much is their labor worth collectively? We will lose all that.

Who is "we?" What do I care if the immigrant is no longer working here? He's also not consuming or sucking down government benefits.

We is the American people.
You see people are liabilities. That is inherently a liberal/progressive worldview. I see people as resources.
The truth is that illegal immigrants, being younger and healthier, use far less resources than similar classes of Americans.

And they should. After all, it's their country.

Just like they should have first dibs on job opportunities over foreigners. Just like they should get pay increases through the supply and demand process over foreigners. Just like they should be able communicate in their language over foreigners.

Our citizens should always come first over foreigners.

 

[bripat9643]

It will cost about $40 Billion to deport all the illegals here. Think of how much we could buy with that money.

All the welfare we give them costs us $200 billion/year. $40 billion to get rid of them is a bargain.

How much is their labor worth collectively? We will lose all that.

Who is "we?" What do I care if the immigrant is no longer working here? He's also not consuming or sucking down government benefits.

We is the American people.
You see people are liabilities. That is inherently a liberal/progressive worldview. I see people as resources.
The truth is that illegal immigrants, being younger and healthier, use far less resources than similar classes of Americans.

And they should. After all, it's their country.

Just like they should have first dibs on job opportunities over foreigners. Just like they should get pay increases through the supply and demand process over foreigners. Just like they should be able communicate in their language over foreigners.

Our citizens should always come first over foreigners.

That's SELFISH!

 

[The Rabbi]

Germany is an enormous exporter despite having some of the highest labor rates in the world. How do you explain that?

A better form of govt, and a much more practical - as opposed to emotional - way of dealing with economics. I won't even go into the quality of product they produce....

How is a better form of gov't responsible for making their products competitive?

A much more inclusive govt that just doesn't look out for the lobbyist of the day to support them. Too many regs in the US. You have local. Then you have state. Then you have federal. All adds to the bottom line....

I would think Germany has many more regs than the US. There are city, state and federal as well as EU regs. And I am equally sure they have as many special interests as we do.

 

[The Rabbi]

[
Quit deflecting. More people are working today, despite Dem policies, than ever before. Yeah no jobs in America.
Auto industry is doing great. BMW in South Carolina, Mercedes in Alabama, Nissan in TN, VW in TN.
Why do you ask?

Oh, so Obama got something right? Cool

Yeah, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, VW - great American brands.

Obama recruited BMW to the US? Wow, who knew?
You understand that Obama is not responsible for every single thing in this country, right? Manythings, yes. Like the worst economy since before WW2.
Those brands are made here in the US. Ergo they are domestic car makers. What part of "domestic"do you not get?

 

[The Rabbi]

It will cost about $40 Billion to deport all the illegals here. Think of how much we could buy with that money.

All the welfare we give them costs us $200 billion/year. $40 billion to get rid of them is a bargain.

How much is their labor worth collectively? We will lose all that.

Who is "we?" What do I care if the immigrant is no longer working here? He's also not consuming or sucking down government benefits.

We is the American people.
You see people are liabilities. That is inherently a liberal/progressive worldview. I see people as resources.
The truth is that illegal immigrants, being younger and healthier, use far less resources than similar classes of Americans.

And they should. After all, it's their country.

Just like they should have first dibs on job opportunities over foreigners. Just like they should get pay increases through the supply and demand process over foreigners. Just like they should be able communicate in their language over foreigners.

Our citizens should always come first over foreigners.

You understand a job is not a right or entitlement, yes? So no one "gets dibs" on jobs. That is merely rent seeking by less qualified people.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

The basic value of conservatism is free movement of labor and capital. People are free to offer their labor to employers, employers are free to hire whom they want, consumers are free to buy what they want and sellers are free to sell what they want.
Given that why do conservatives support immigration and trade restrictions when those things are the antithesis of basic conservatives values?

They support legal immigration and Trump has stated he supports legal immigration.....he has also stated he wants to make better trade deals with foriegn countries and as an experienced negotiator he has thrown out the idea of tarrifs....as a bargaining chip...........

Conservatives who support Trump do so because they have supported Republican "conservatives" who have failed to stand up to obama on obamacare, immigration and budget increases.....Trump says he will take on these issues....so having been betrayed by those who claim they are conservatives with conservative principals, they will now give Trump a chance...partly to show the Republican "conservatives" that there is a price to pay for lying....and partly because they believe Trump will actually fight the lefties.....

So we should change immigration laws to make it easier to immigrate here, not try to enforce a failed system. actually open borders would be the real conservative principle.

Open borders and unlimited welfare is unsustainable.

 

[bripat9643]

[
Quit deflecting. More people are working today, despite Dem policies, than ever before. Yeah no jobs in America.
Auto industry is doing great. BMW in South Carolina, Mercedes in Alabama, Nissan in TN, VW in TN.
Why do you ask?

Oh, so Obama got something right? Cool

Yeah, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, VW - great American brands.

Obama recruited BMW to the US? Wow, who knew?
You understand that Obama is not responsible for every single thing in this country, right? Manythings, yes. Like the worst economy since before WW2.
Those brands are made here in the US. Ergo they are domestic car makers. What part of "domestic"do you not get?

BMW was building cars here before Obama ascended the throne.

 

[bripat9643]

All the welfare we give them costs us $200 billion/year. $40 billion to get rid of them is a bargain.

How much is their labor worth collectively? We will lose all that.

Who is "we?" What do I care if the immigrant is no longer working here? He's also not consuming or sucking down government benefits.

We is the American people.
You see people are liabilities. That is inherently a liberal/progressive worldview. I see people as resources.
The truth is that illegal immigrants, being younger and healthier, use far less resources than similar classes of Americans.

And they should. After all, it's their country.

Just like they should have first dibs on job opportunities over foreigners. Just like they should get pay increases through the supply and demand process over foreigners. Just like they should be able communicate in their language over foreigners.

Our citizens should always come first over foreigners.

You understand a job is not a right or entitlement, yes? So no one "gets dibs" on jobs. That is merely rent seeking by less qualified people.

We do get to determine who is allowed into the country.

 

[The Rabbi]

[
Quit deflecting. More people are working today, despite Dem policies, than ever before. Yeah no jobs in America.
Auto industry is doing great. BMW in South Carolina, Mercedes in Alabama, Nissan in TN, VW in TN.
Why do you ask?

Oh, so Obama got something right? Cool

Yeah, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, VW - great American brands.

Obama recruited BMW to the US? Wow, who knew?
You understand that Obama is not responsible for every single thing in this country, right? Manythings, yes. Like the worst economy since before WW2.
Those brands are made here in the US. Ergo they are domestic car makers. What part of "domestic"do you not get?

BMW was building cars here before Obama ascended the throne.

Of course they were. So was Nissan. Dr Grump is a moron, hardly news for anyone familiar with his posts.

 

[bripat9643]

[
Quit deflecting. More people are working today, despite Dem policies, than ever before. Yeah no jobs in America.
Auto industry is doing great. BMW in South Carolina, Mercedes in Alabama, Nissan in TN, VW in TN.
Why do you ask?

Oh, so Obama got something right? Cool

Yeah, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, VW - great American brands.

Obama recruited BMW to the US? Wow, who knew?
You understand that Obama is not responsible for every single thing in this country, right? Manythings, yes. Like the worst economy since before WW2.
Those brands are made here in the US. Ergo they are domestic car makers. What part of "domestic"do you not get?

BMW was building cars here before Obama ascended the throne.

Of course they were. So was Nissan. Dr Grump is a moron, hardly news for anyone familiar with his posts.

Grump isn't disputing that point.

 

[The Rabbi]

[
Quit deflecting. More people are working today, despite Dem policies, than ever before. Yeah no jobs in America.
Auto industry is doing great. BMW in South Carolina, Mercedes in Alabama, Nissan in TN, VW in TN.
Why do you ask?

Oh, so Obama got something right? Cool

Yeah, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, VW - great American brands.

Obama recruited BMW to the US? Wow, who knew?
You understand that Obama is not responsible for every single thing in this country, right? Manythings, yes. Like the worst economy since before WW2.
Those brands are made here in the US. Ergo they are domestic car makers. What part of "domestic"do you not get?

BMW was building cars here before Obama ascended the throne.

Of course they were. So was Nissan. Dr Grump is a moron, hardly news for anyone familiar with his posts.

Grump isn't disputing that point.

He appears to credit Obama with auto industry jobs resulting from foreign companies locating here. He also is confused as to what "domestic" means.

 

[leftwinger]

In addition to the "labor issue" The Illegal(s) cost America plenty. Crime , Drugs, weapons, disease, medical, daycare, foster care on and on and on.

The leaning slowdown caused in the schools is catastrophic on American Children (see Orange County CA.). Boredom drugs crime....

 

[The Rabbi]

In addition to the "labor issue" The Illegal(s) cost America plenty. Crime , Drugs, weapons, disease, medical, daycare, foster care on and on and on.

The leaning slowdown caused in the schools is catastrophic on American Children (see Orange County CA.). Boredom drugs crime....

Crime and drugs among illegals is less than it is for comparable native-born people. We should swap Mexico their illegals for our inner city ghetto dwellers.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

All the welfare we give them costs us $200 billion/year. $40 billion to get rid of them is a bargain.

How much is their labor worth collectively? We will lose all that.

Who is "we?" What do I care if the immigrant is no longer working here? He's also not consuming or sucking down government benefits.

We is the American people.
You see people are liabilities. That is inherently a liberal/progressive worldview. I see people as resources.
The truth is that illegal immigrants, being younger and healthier, use far less resources than similar classes of Americans.

And they should. After all, it's their country.

Just like they should have first dibs on job opportunities over foreigners. Just like they should get pay increases through the supply and demand process over foreigners. Just like they should be able communicate in their language over foreigners.

Our citizens should always come first over foreigners.

You understand a job is not a right or entitlement, yes? So no one "gets dibs" on jobs. That is merely rent seeking by less qualified people.

I never said a job was an entitlement or a right. It doesn't have to be to understand the simple concept that a government should prioritize their citizens over others when it comes to anything where government is concerned.

After all, if we do believe in the premise that our government is We The People, then We The People are the most important in our land.