Zone1 Why Do Christians Have A Problem With All Dogs Go to Heaven?

No thanks .
I 100% respect your posts but reject the Multiverse thinking and put it alongside Flat Earth in terms of its validity .

Equally , I side with Clif High and others and believe that the Event Stream ( future ) can be changed / adjusted whereas the past ( time lines ) cannot .

I believe that discussion in this area can be extended indefinitely by the simple use of the " WHAT IF" process , and therefore I take the view that I am no longer interested UNLESS some new "Quantum twists " or facts come to light .
But thanks nevertheless .

But here is the question....
both for those who recognize Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as Moshiach ben David and Messiah the Passover Lamb..... and for those who do not recognize Him yet...... does Jesus in His resurrected body have the authority and the power to resurrect all of the dead who ever lived...... without even straining?

Even the resurrection of dogs and cats and horses and cattle is bigger than we tend to imagine.

Former Covering Cherub Helel is powerful... but he cannot do anything like that!

[Rick Joyner, The Final Quest] :

The Power of His Word

“You seek to know and walk in My power so that you can heal the sick and perform miracles, but you have not even begun to comprehend the power of My word. To resurrect all the dead who have ever lived on earth will not even cause Me to strain. I uphold all things by the power of My word. The creation exists because of My word, and it is held together by My word.

“Before the end, I will reveal My power on earth. Even so, the greatest power that I have ever revealed on the earth, or ever will, is still a very small demonstration of My power I do not reveal My power to cause men to believe in My power, but to cause men to believe in My love.

“If I had wanted to save the world with My power when I walked the earth, I could have moved mountains by pointing a finger Then all men would have bowed to Me, but not because they loved Me or loved the truth, but because they feared My power I do not want men to obey Me because they fear My power, but because they love Me and love the truth.

“If you do not know My love, then My power will corrupt you. I do not give you love so you can know My power, but I give you power so that you can know My love. The goal of your life must be love, not power Then I will give you power with which to love people. I will give you the power to heal the sick because you love them, and I love them, and I do not want them sick.

“So you must seek love first, and then faith. You cannot please Me without faith. But faith is not just the knowledge of My power, it is the knowledge of My love and the power of My love. Faith must first be exercised in order to receive more love. Seek faith to love more, and to do more with your love. Only when you seek the faith to love can I trust you with My power Faith works by love.

“My word is the power that upholds all things. To the degree that you believe My word is true, you can do all things. Those who really believe that My words are true, will also be true to their own words. It is My nature to be true, and the creation trusts My word because I am faithful to it.

“Those who are like Me are also true to their own words. Their word is sure, and their commitments are trustworthy. Their ‘yes’ means ‘yes,’ and their ‘no’ means ‘no.’ If your own words are not true, you will also begin to doubt My words, because deception is in your heart. If you are not faithful to your own words, it is because you do not really know Me. To have faith, you must be faithful. I have called you to walk by faith because I am faithful. It is My nature.

“That is why you will be judged because of the careless words you speak. To be careless is to care less. Words have power and those who are careless with words cannot be trusted with the power of My word. It is wisdom to be careful with your words, and to keep them as I do Mine.”

The Lord’s words were rolling over me like great waves from the sea. I felt like Job before the whirlwind. I thought that I was getting smaller and smaller, and then realized that He was getting larger. I had never felt so presumptuous. How could I have been so casual with God? I felt like an ant staring up at a mountain range. I was less than dust, yet He was taking the time to speak to me. I could not stand any more, and turned away.

After a few moments, I felt a reassuring hand on my shoulder. It was Wisdom. His glory was even greater now, but He was again my size. “Do you understand what happened just then?” He asked.

Knowing very well that when the Lord asks a question He is not seeking information, I began to ponder what had happened. I knew that it was reality. Compared to Him, I am less than a speck of dust would be to the earth, and for some reason He wanted me to experience that realization in a profound way.

Answering my thoughts, He elaborated:

“What you are thinking is true, but this comparison of man to God is not just in size. You began to experience the power of My words. To be entrusted with My words is to be entrusted with the power by which the universe is held together I did not do this to make you feel small, but to help you understand the seriousness and the power that with which you have been entrusted—the word of God.

“In all of your endeavors, remember that the importance of a single word from God to man is of more value than all of the treasures on earth. You must understand and teach My brethren to respect the value of My word. As one who is called to carry My words, you must also respect the value of your own words. Those who will carry the truth must be true.”

Meeting the Evangelist
Do you know how much time and effort went into the creation of dogs, cats, horses and all other animals?

Infinite time was invested into all of the creations. Even the fallen ones, because a "restoration of all things" is predicted.
[Near death experiencer Mellen Thomas Benedict] :

6. The Void​

At this point of my NDE, I found myself in a profound stillness, beyond all silence. I could see or perceive FOREVER, beyond Infinity. I was in the Void.

I was in pre-creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time / the First Word / the First vibration. I was in the Eye of Creation. I felt as if I was touching the Face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply, I was at one with Absolute Life and Consciousness. When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That’s a mind-expanding thought, isn’t it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event that created the Universe. I saw during my life after death experience that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating Universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by super computers using fractal geometry equations.

The ancients knew of this. They said God had periodically created new Universes by breathing out, and recreated other Universes by breathing in. These epochs were called Yugas. Modern science called this the Big Bang. I was in absolute, pure consciousness. I could see or perceive all the Big Bangs or Yugas creating and recreating themselves. Instantly I entered into them all simultaneously. I saw that each and every little piece of creation has the power to create. It is very difficult to try to explain this. I am still speechless about this.

It took me years after I returned from my NDE to assimilate any words at all for the Void experience. I can tell you this now: the Void is less than nothing, yet more than everything that is! The Void is absolute zero; chaos forming all possibilities. It is Absolute Consciousness; much more than even Universal Intelligence. The Void is the vacuum or nothingness between all physical manifestations. The SPACE between atoms and their components. Modern science has begun to study this space between everything. They call it Zero point. Whenever they try to measure it, their instruments go off the scale, or to infinity, so to speak. They have no way, as of yet, to measure infinity accurately. There is more of the zero space in your own body and the Universe than anything else!

What mystics call the Void is not a void. It is so full of energy, a different kind of energy that has created everything that we are. Everything since the Big Bang is vibration, from the first Word, which is the first vibration. The biblical “I am” really has a question mark after it. “I am — What am I?” So creation is God exploring God’s Self through every way imaginable, in an ongoing, infinite exploration through every one of us. I began to see during my NDE that everything that is, is the Self, literally, your Self, my Self. Everything is the great Self. That is why God knows even when a leaf falls. That is possible because wherever you are is the center of the universe. Wherever any atom is, that is the center of the universe. There is God in that, and God in the Void.




What Atheist and near death experiencer Mellen Thomas Benedict was shown about eternity in the past is shockingly similar to chapter thirteen of "Stephen Hawking's Universe." The title of that chapter was "The Anthropic Principle."
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...but to be fair, they're not punished in Hell either.

there is no hell to be punished in - the heavenly verdict will dictate their punishment if one is prescribed.

as w/ humanity the species itself will eventually be judged -

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what that might be for ticks and their evolution would be interesting .... 👎
 
I don't believe "all dogs go to Heaven"....but to be fair, they're not punished in Hell either. Simply, they're not made in the image of God. God does love them, same as He loves all His creation. But they cannot earn the only way to Heaven....see my signature


I can't see signatures on my phone, but does that mean you don't believe that babies or people with severe mental disabilities who cannot choose Christ go to Heaven either?
 
I can't see signatures on my phone, but does that mean you don't believe that babies or people with severe mental disabilities who cannot choose Christ go to Heaven either?
We’re all born with Original Sin and unless baptized, a baby will go straight to a hell like place without passing Go.
 
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While I do believe there will be animals in Heaven, I do not believe animals have souls.

I do not believe that animals I have had in the past will be there.

God created animals and humans differently.

I'm a bit confused. When I read this I wondered how an animal can go to heaven without a soul, cuz their physical body ain't going nowhere. Maybe an animal doesn't have a soul but instead has some kind of lesser spirit? Sounds somewhat arrogant to me and BTW I prefer to be with a good dog than a whole buncha asshole people.
 
People severely underestimate the intelligence of the animal world and their ability to reason.
Human arrogance is however superior.
 
For even in real life I would assume that dogs and all animals go to Heaven just like babies since they can't make a conscious decision to follow Christ. At least that's what I and many other Christians believe.
Is your main question not about animals in heaven, but whether our pets may also be in heaven and we can continue to interact with them?

I once came across this observation: In heaven our hearts will be focused on God--His love for us; our love for Him. How would our pets fit in this, our new life--and perhaps, in their new life...
 
Is your main question not about animals in heaven, but whether our pets may also be in heaven and we can continue to interact with them?

I once came across this observation: In heaven our hearts will be focused on God--His love for us; our love for Him. How would our pets fit in this, our new life--and perhaps, in their new life...



Can't we spend time with God, our pets, and all of our other loved ones all at the same time in Heaven?
 
Can't we spend time with God, our pets, and all of our other loved ones all at the same time in Heaven?
:) That's my own question, so I don't know. But I think I can picture thirty parakeets flying around me (with one landing on my head) and two chinchillas at my feet. My family genealogy is quite lengthy with all the research I've done on each family line, my best friend, my parents friends, neighbors, co-workers, classmates, students....so much to do.... ;)
 
No thanks .
I 100% respect your posts but reject the Multiverse thinking and put it alongside Flat Earth in terms of its validity .

Equally , I side with Clif High and others and believe that the Event Stream ( future ) can be changed / adjusted whereas the past ( time lines ) cannot .

I believe that discussion in this area can be extended indefinitely by the simple use of the " WHAT IF" process , and therefore I take the view that I am no longer interested UNLESS some new "Quantum twists " or facts come to light .
But thanks nevertheless .

Luiza, what do you think of the idea that was given to near death experiencer Kevin L. Zadai Th. D. that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could remember the day that He had created former Covering Cherub Helel?

The Being of Light of near death experience fame who met with Kevin Zadai during a forty five minute near death experience in 1992 told Kevin that He remembered creating Covering Cherub Helel, [and He knew that Covering Cherub Helel would eventually rebel against Him]?

Now that idea could very well be profoundly offensive to many of us...... but that is also something worth thinking about?

Could it be that the clash between light vs darkness..... the way of Competetion vs Love.... may have needed to happen?

My belief is that "Azazel" and some of his children or grandchildren will revolt against the kingdom of Satan, [former Covering Cherub Helel who is known to Christians as Lucifer - Satan]?

The Book of Enoch predicts a time when so much of the Ruach ha Kodesh - Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh that some of the Holy Spirit runs down into Sheol, the grave, the KINGDOMS UNDER THIS EARTH!?

I believe that that helps to explain why Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as merely the Son of Man..... or grandson of King David, Moshiach ben David, [who was a grandson of Adam], predicted that he would be in Sheol for three days and three nights?

I believe that the scourging and crucifixion were on a Wednesday in thirty one C. E. The First Day of Unleavened Bread, [the fifteenth day of the first month on the Hebrew calendar], was on a Thursday that year. The women who prepared the spices for the burial of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus did that on Friday and then they rested on the weekly Jewish Sabbath. They went to the tomb on Sunday morning but Jesus had already risen. I believe that Jesus was resurrected on the evening of the weekly Sabbath, Saturday. I believe that Jesus gave the thief a tour of "paradise" or heaven, [much like the tour that He gave to near death experiencer Robert Marshall, except a lot shorter because by sunset on Wednesday of that week Jesus went to Sheol, the grave, and fulfilled Psalms sixteen].

By going to Sheol, or Hades, the grave, "the kingdom UNDER THE EARTH" for three days and three nights or seventy two hours, Messiah Yeshua - Jesus as Moshiach ben David set an astonishing precedent that will become more and more clear and easy to understand as the Kingdom of Heaven will invade NOT ONLY THIS EARTH, but also the grave, the kingdom UNDER THE EARTH?

That is how I understand certain statements in The Book of Enoch anyway and that is how I put all of this together as every word in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets will fit with what is being revealed to near death experiencers all across the spectrum of background in spirituality.

Even John Ramirez had a near death experience in 1999 and his life was transformed by that rather scary NDE.

[Near death experiencer Kevin L. Zadai Th. D.] :


THE DEPTHS OF VISITATION AND PRAYER: THE STEPS JESUS WENT THROUGH IN HELL​

Jesus relinquished His authority, power, and His will over to the Father and the Holy Spirit. He commended His Spirit to them all as He descended into the pit. To fulfill all that was required by justice, He had to go further into hell than any man will ever have to go. He had to go to the depths of hell in order to make redemption complete. During those days in hell, He rehearsed Psalm 16 to Himself, believing that the Father would give the command for the Holy Spirit to raise Him to life again.

Christ’s journey into hell and resurrection has made my spirit a brand-new being (see 2 Cor. 5:17).

Jesus went through everything we go through so that we can have authority and victory in this life.

THE AGREEMENT​

Jesus had an agreement with the Holy Spirit and with the Father about His activities from the time that He was born until the time that He ascended on high.

Because Jesus fulfilled all righteousness, we are therefore able to have victory without having to master situations. Remember that Jesus went before us as our High Priest. He paved the way for us to be successful in everything. He did what He did in the earth realm, and it causes you to walk in such a visitation. During prayer, because of visitation you will see your prayers immediately answered. That is because you are walking in His authority, operating the way He did while He was here on the earth.
Excerpt from Praying from the Heavenly Realms Chapter 20: The Depths of Visitation and Prayer: The Steps Jesus Went Through in Hell






The Ancient of Days The Mother as the Ruach ha Kodesh, the Holy Spirit, has been working furiously for two millennia. Messiah Yeshua - Jesus has also been meeting with people who have a near death experience, [or presumably with everybody when they fully die and pass on], so how could the Ancient of Days the Father do very little after the astonishing investment in us humans on earth, and under the earth in Sheol, after what the Holy Spirit has done... and after what the Son has done, [not to mention the Bride of the Son who is explained in Revelation chapters two and three... and also in Revelation twelve?

Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan in his anger does not want the fallen angels and Hungry Ghosts and Nephilim and fallen Watchers to catch onto what is really happening but the Kingdom of Light and Heaven is taking over in the Kingdom of Darkness, [both on the earth as well as under the earth].

Every word in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the Minor Prophets is being fulfilled.... but also there are many hidden sayings that are also coming to pass as well.

What is about to happen on top of the earth....
I believe will be mirrored to at least some degree even in Sheol and even among the Nephilim, [the descendants of Azazel and the fallen Watchers of Book of Enoch fame as well as Leviticus sixteen]?

No matter how furious Stanley Milgram Lucifer Satan is with all of this..... he cannot stop what is coming.... [but he sure is trying to stop this]?

.....

[Near death experiencer Howard Storm] :

5. The Future of the U.S. and the World​

Because of my fear of a nuclear holocaust I asked if there was going to be a nuclear war in the world, and they said no. That astonished me, and I gave them this extensive explanation of how I had lived under the threat of nuclear war. That was one of the reasons I was who I was. I figured, when I was in this life, that it was all sort of hopeless; the world was going to blow up anyway, and nothing made much sense. In that context I felt I could do what I wanted, since nothing mattered.

They said, “No, there isn’t going to be any nuclear war.”

I asked if they were absolutely sure there wasn’t going to be nuclear war. They reassured me again, and I asked them how they could be so sure.

Their response was: “God loves the world.” They told me that at the most, one or two nuclear weapons might go off accidentally, if they weren’t destroyed, but there wouldn’t be a nuclear war.

I then asked them how come there had been so many wars. They said that they allowed those few to happen, out of all the wars that humanity tried to start. Out of all the wars that humans tried to create, they allowed a few, to bring people to their senses and to stop them.

Science, technology, and other benefits, they told me, had been gifts bestowed on humanity by them – through inspiration. People had literally been led to those discoveries, many of which had later been perverted by humanity to use for its own destruction.

We could do too much damage to the planet. And by the planet, they meant all of God’s creation. Not just the people, but the animals, the trees, the birds, the insects, everything.

They explained to me that their concern was for all the people of the world. They weren’t interested in one group getting ahead of other groups. They want every person to consider every other person greater than their own flesh. They want everyone to love everyone else, completely; more, even, than they love themselves. If someone, someplace else in the world hurts, then we should hurt, we should feel their pain. And we should help them. Our planet has evolved to the point, for the first time in our history, that we have the power to do that. We are globally linked. And we could become one people.

The people that they gave the privilege of leading the world into a better age, blew it. That was us, in the United States.

When I spoke with them about the future, and this might sound like a cop-out on my part, they made clear to me that we have free will.

If we change the way we are, then we can change the future which they showed me. They showed me a view of the future, at the time of my experience, based upon how we in the United States were behaving at that time. It was a future in which a massive worldwide depression would occur. If we were to change our behavior, however, then the future would be different.

Asking them how it would be possible to change the course of many people, I observed that it was difficult, if not impossible, to change anything on Earth. I expressed the opinion that it was a hopeless task to try.

My friends explained, quite clearly, that all it takes to make a change was one person. One person, trying, and then because of that, another person changing for the better. They said that the only way to change the world was to begin with one person. One will become two, which will become three, and so on. That’s the only way to affect a major change.

I inquired as to where the world would be going in an optimistic future one where some of the changes they desired were to take place.

The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.

And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.

There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.

What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.

People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.

Animals lived with people, in harmony.

People, in this best of all worlds, weren’t interested in knowledge; they were interested in wisdom. This was because they were in a position where anything they needed to know, in the knowledge category, they could receive simply through prayer. Everything, to them, was solvable. They could do anything they wanted to do.

In this future, people had no wanderlust, because they could, spiritually, communicate with everyone else in the world. There was no need to go elsewhere. They were so engrossed with where they were and the people around them that they didn’t have to go on vacation. Vacation from what? They were completely fulfilled and happy.

Death, in this world, was a time when the individual had experienced everything that he or she needed to experience. To die meant to lie down and let go; then the spirit would rise up, and the community would gather around. There would be a great rejoicing, because they all had insight into the heavenly realm, and the spirit would join with the angels that came down to meet it. They could see the spirit leave and knew that it was time for the spirit to move on; it had outgrown the need for growth in this world. Individuals who died had achieved all they were capable of in this world in terms of love, appreciation, understanding, and working in harmony with others.

The sense I got of this beautiful view of the world’s future was as a garden, God’s garden. And in this garden of the world, full of all beauty, were people. The people were born into this world to grow in their understanding of the Creator. Then to shed this skin, this shell, in the physical world, and to graduate and move up into heaven there, to have a more intimate and growing relationship with God.

(Note: In Howard Storm’s book, “My Descent Into Death” (2000), Storm describes the future of the United States as given to him by light beings he encountered during his NDE in 1985.)


 
No, I don't.

They weren't created in God's image like mankind was.

What do you mean by "purer"?


Dogs are definitely more loyal and compassionate than humans.
 
I'm a bit confused. When I read this I wondered how an animal can go to heaven without a soul, cuz their physical body ain't going nowhere. Maybe an animal doesn't have a soul but instead has some kind of lesser spirit? Sounds somewhat arrogant to me and BTW I prefer to be with a good dog than a whole buncha asshole people.

In the end God said there will be a new Heaven and Earth.

So, maybe he creates more, I don't know. I just don't believe animals that are living now have eternal souls. That doesn't line up with scripture.
 
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Some are and some aren't.

I know a few right now I wouldn't get near.

so obviously their spiritual component as all living beings are unique to the physiology they are entrusted by the heavens to live their lives and pursue admission to the everlasting if so inclined.

- their creation of life is the same for everyone as taught by the 1st century events and jesus.
 
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