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Why Did Trump Take The Presidential Documents When He Left Office?

ABikerSailor

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And again, it is completely legal for Trump to retain any classified documents that he was given while president.
He just can not let others see them until they are officially declassified.

Wrong.
Trumps staff would not be able to see documents in closed boxes in the locked basement.
The FBI was not just opening boxes, but reading through them.

It's readily apparent to even the most casual observer that you don't know much about how classified things work. Even if he had seen classified documents, once his security clearance is gone (when he left office), he no longer has the authority to see them, even if he's seen them before. And, as far as him knowing about classified things, well............once you leave the military after having had access to classified material, you are required to sign an NDA saying that you won't talk about anything you saw for at least 10 years after discharge. Same would happen for anyone who worked in a classified job, and even for Trump. And no, you can't just go back and see a classified document just because you want to. Do a little research on classified material, and you will come across something called a "need to know".

As far as the FBI seeing the documents? ALL FBI agents have to have a security clearance, and depending on their job, depends on how high the classification they are authorized to see goes. I'm pretty sure that the FBI picked agents to participate in serving the warrant that had appropriate clearances.
 

ABikerSailor

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Almost no FBI would have top secret clearance.
Presidential staff always have the highest possible clearance, because they are well known on a by face basis, are in constant contact with the presidential family, documents, etc.
FBI are generic in terms of being unknown in appearance, political persuasion, etc.
FBI agents likely are never alone with the presidential family, documents, etc.

Can you be any more ignorant and stupid? YES, FBI agents would more than likely have the appropriate clearances as their entire agency deals with national security. And, sorry, but whether or not you see the president, his family, or things in his office has zero bearing on what your security clearance is. I personally held a Top Secret clearance for most of my Naval career due to the various jobs I did, as well as some of the programs I volunteered for and participated in. Most of the military is "generic" as you say, and yet there are many of them that have Top Secret/SCI clearances. Do some research before you sound like more of an idiot than you already do.
 

Rigby5

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Garland said in his statement they try less intrusive means. Reporting indicates they subpoenas the documents.

Highly classified isn’t specific, but it’s pretty uncontroversial to say TS/SCI is highly classified.

There are three levels of classification in the US: confidential, secret, and top secret.
Deliberately violating classification violations by reading what you should not, is a crime.

But there are also restricted documents.
{...
There are three types of restricted documents:
  1. sealed documents;
  2. ex parte documents; (Ex parte is Latin for 'from one party.' Overview In the law, ex parte is used in several contexts. Legal Ethics In legal ethics, ex parte refers to improper contact with a party or a judge. Ethical rules typically forbid a lawyer from contacting the judge or the opposing party without the other party's lawyer also being present.)
  3. other select documents that contain personal identifiers (See Fed.R.Civ.P. 5.2 and Fed.R.Crim.P. 49.1).
...}

And the difference is that the people in control of restricted documents are the only ones who get in trouble is someone else gains access to them.
 

Rigby5

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It's readily apparent to even the most casual observer that you don't know much about how classified things work. Even if he had seen classified documents, once his security clearance is gone (when he left office), he no longer has the authority to see them, even if he's seen them before. And, as far as him knowing about classified things, well............once you leave the military after having had access to classified material, you are required to sign an NDA saying that you won't talk about anything you saw for at least 10 years after discharge. Same would happen for anyone who worked in a classified job, and even for Trump. And no, you can't just go back and see a classified document just because you want to. Do a little research on classified material, and you will come across something called a "need to know".

As far as the FBI seeing the documents? ALL FBI agents have to have a security clearance, and depending on their job, depends on how high the classification they are authorized to see goes. I'm pretty sure that the FBI picked agents to participate in serving the warrant that had appropriate clearances.

Wrong.
I know exactly how classified documents work because I regularly have to pass test on their use.
But you clearly are lying.
Once a president has seen been given any documents, then they can NEVER be withheld from them.
That would clearly violate the ex post facto legal principle, and be a crime.
Ex-presidents NEVER have to sign a non-disclosure agreement, and in fact that would be illegal.
Ex-presidents do NOT lose clearance to past documents.

{...
A major topic of debate when President Trump took office was whether or not he could have passed a traditional background investigation process, with his business investments and foreign entanglements. The answer is – it doesn’t matter. Presidents, members of congress, and other elected officials don’t go through a traditional background investigation process. The 13 adjudicative guidelines that apply to the typical security clearance holder do not apply to elected officials, including presidents – whether incoming or outgoing.

CONTINUED ACCESS TO CLASSIFIED INFORMATION​

Whether or not former officials keep their eligibility and access to classified information is another issue more grounded in tradition than policy. It is common for outgoing presidents and officials to be ‘read in’ on issues and topics where their prior position and expertise are useful. This is at the discretion of the current sitting president. That means that any access to classified information a former president or government official obtains has to be granted – they can’t just walk into the CIA and say ‘brief me.’

Security clearance policy has seen significant shifts and improvements with the ushering in of Trusted Workforce 2.0. It’s likely those improvements will continue to advance under a new administration, but only time will tell. When it comes to security clearances and a new administration, however, the more important issues are around what security clearance policies may or may not change moving forward – not who has access to classified information and who doesn’t.
...}

As to the "need to know", that is obvious.
A president who drafted executive orders could have massive consequences on the finances and lives of others, so then have a right to retain the justification and basis for their actions.
 

ABikerSailor

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There are three levels of classification in the US: confidential, secret, and top secret.
Deliberately violating classification violations by reading what you should not, is a crime.

But there are also restricted documents.
{...
There are three types of restricted documents:
  1. sealed documents;
  2. ex parte documents; (Ex parte is Latin for 'from one party.' Overview In the law, ex parte is used in several contexts. Legal Ethics In legal ethics, ex parte refers to improper contact with a party or a judge. Ethical rules typically forbid a lawyer from contacting the judge or the opposing party without the other party's lawyer also being present.)
  3. other select documents that contain personal identifiers (See Fed.R.Civ.P. 5.2 and Fed.R.Crim.P. 49.1).
...}

And the difference is that the people in control of restricted documents are the only ones who get in trouble is someone else gains access to them.

Wow...........you know how to use Google, and you can copy and paste stuff in your posts. Still doesn't mean that you know squat when it comes to classified information. But, you continue to show what kind of an idiot you are. Yes, the people in control of classified material will get into trouble if someone gains access to it, but they AREN'T the only ones who do as you claimed. People who don't have a security clearance who gain access to classified information will also be held to account for gaining access. The only time they would not be in trouble is if they unknowingly received the information and did not know it was classified. That's pretty hard to do though, as all classified documents are clearly marked with the classification they are held at, and you would have to be a total moron not to notice it. Chances are, when the investigation of leaked classified material was done, both the person releasing it, as well as the person without the clearance who received it would both be in trouble.
 

Rigby5

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Can you be any more ignorant and stupid? YES, FBI agents would more than likely have the appropriate clearances as their entire agency deals with national security. And, sorry, but whether or not you see the president, his family, or things in his office has zero bearing on what your security clearance is. I personally held a Top Secret clearance for most of my Naval career due to the various jobs I did, as well as some of the programs I volunteered for and participated in. Most of the military is "generic" as you say, and yet there are many of them that have Top Secret/SCI clearances. Do some research before you sound like more of an idiot than you already do.

Wrong.
The FBI almost never deals with "national security".
The FBI is almost exclusively involved with simple crime, but interstate.
It is the CIA who deals with "national security" issues because of foreign involvements.

And whether or not you could easily harm the presidential family is exactly why you would want someone to have a high security clearance.
 

LuckyDuck

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Why Did Trump Take The Presidential Documents When He Left Office?
Why didn't Trump return the documents to NARA when they asked for them in Feb. 2021?
And if he declassed documents, why didn't he stamp them declassified?
None of this makes any sense.
Having Top Secret Documents and Top Secret - Compartmentalize documents in your home is dangerous. This is the kind of stuff people kill to get.
Lastly, why would Trump destroy some of these documents and leave the pieces of them in boxes to be found?
Obama took documents with him as well, as presidents tend to.
 

Rigby5

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Wow...........you know how to use Google, and you can copy and paste stuff in your posts. Still doesn't mean that you know squat when it comes to classified information. But, you continue to show what kind of an idiot you are. Yes, the people in control of classified material will get into trouble if someone gains access to it, but they AREN'T the only ones who do as you claimed. People who don't have a security clearance who gain access to classified information will also be held to account for gaining access. The only time they would not be in trouble is if they unknowingly received the information and did not know it was classified. That's pretty hard to do though, as all classified documents are clearly marked with the classification they are held at, and you would have to be a total moron not to notice it. Chances are, when the investigation of leaked classified material was done, both the person releasing it, as well as the person without the clearance who received it would both be in trouble.

You need better reading comprehension.
I clearly said that with "classified docs", both unauthorized readers and those who failed to protect get punished.
But I was contrasting that with "restricted docs" that only the person who failed to protect is punished, not the unauthorized reader.
 

ABikerSailor

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Wrong.
I know exactly how classified documents work because I regularly have to pass test on their use.
But you clearly are lying.
Once a president has seen been given any documents, then they can NEVER be withheld from them.
That would clearly violate the ex post facto legal principle, and be a crime.
Ex-presidents NEVER have to sign a non-disclosure agreement, and in fact that would be illegal.
Ex-presidents do NOT lose clearance to past documents.

{...
A major topic of debate when President Trump took office was whether or not he could have passed a traditional background investigation process, with his business investments and foreign entanglements. The answer is – it doesn’t matter. Presidents, members of congress, and other elected officials don’t go through a traditional background investigation process. The 13 adjudicative guidelines that apply to the typical security clearance holder do not apply to elected officials, including presidents – whether incoming or outgoing.

CONTINUED ACCESS TO CLASSIFIED INFORMATION​

Whether or not former officials keep their eligibility and access to classified information is another issue more grounded in tradition than policy. It is common for outgoing presidents and officials to be ‘read in’ on issues and topics where their prior position and expertise are useful. This is at the discretion of the current sitting president. That means that any access to classified information a former president or government official obtains has to be granted – they can’t just walk into the CIA and say ‘brief me.’

Security clearance policy has seen significant shifts and improvements with the ushering in of Trusted Workforce 2.0. It’s likely those improvements will continue to advance under a new administration, but only time will tell. When it comes to security clearances and a new administration, however, the more important issues are around what security clearance policies may or may not change moving forward – not who has access to classified information and who doesn’t.
...}

As to the "need to know", that is obvious.
A president who drafted executive orders could have massive consequences on the finances and lives of others, so then have a right to retain the justification and basis for their actions.

If you have to pass a test regularly on how classified material works, I'm surprised you can even take the test, because in all your posts you have shown a marked ignorance of how the system works. Sorry, but you sound like even more of an idiot than you previously did. And, it's readily apparent that you didn't read what you pasted into your post, because you missed this...............

This is at the discretion of the current sitting president. That means that any access to classified information a former president or government official obtains has to be granted – they can’t just walk into the CIA and say ‘brief me.

Access has to be granted, they can't just walk in and ask to see the documents or be briefed on them without being allowed by the current president. That basically means they no longer have a clearance, and the current president has to allow them access, even if they already know about it. And yeah, that NDA agreement DOES have to be signed by the person leaving office, no matter how much you wish it was otherwise. What kind of a test do you "regularly" take, and for what kind of job? Counting balls in the pit at the local Chuck E Cheese's? Yeah, I can see how they can trust you with information like that. /sarcasm.
 

ABikerSailor

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Wrong.
The FBI almost never deals with "national security".
The FBI is almost exclusively involved with simple crime, but interstate.
It is the CIA who deals with "national security" issues because of foreign involvements.

And whether or not you could easily harm the presidential family is exactly why you would want someone to have a high security clearance.

Wow..............you really are quite the little armchair retard, ain't ya? The FBI deals with things that happen inside our borders (of which one is national security, how else do you think it happens that the FBI investigates terrorists within our borders), and the CIA deals with things OUTSIDE of our borders. Might wanna use your little Google machine to do some research on that. Granted, people who are dealing with the president or their family on a regular basis do need to be checked out, but that isn't the only reason for a security clearance, nor will everyone around the president be given a clearance. Me? Never had anything to do with the WH, the president, or the presidential family, but for most of my 20 years in the Navy, I held a Top Secret clearance because of my job and the various other collateral duties I did. And yes, EVERYONE who had a clearance of Confidential or higher had to sign an NDA when they left the military. Same goes for personnel in various government jobs that have access to classified material when they leave that position. But, keep up with the idiocy and trying to defend what Trump did if it makes you feel better, but all you are really doing is showing how little you know about classified material.
 

KissMy

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Vladimir Solovyov remarked, “I’m very worried for our agent Trump. They found everything at Mar-a-Lago, they got packages of documents. In all seriousness, they say he should be executed as a person that was ready to hand off nuclear secrets to Russia.”
 

Lesh

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answer my question, why would Putin prefer Trump over Hillary who he could completely control?
Your question is stupid.
Putin had control over Trump. He and Clinton hated each other...
 

Lesh

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Can you be any more ignorant and stupid? YES, FBI agents would more than likely have the appropriate clearances as their entire agency deals with national security. And, sorry, but whether or not you see the president, his family, or things in his office has zero bearing on what your security clearance is. I personally held a Top Secret clearance for most of my Naval career due to the various jobs I did, as well as some of the programs I volunteered for and participated in. Most of the military is "generic" as you say, and yet there are many of them that have Top Secret/SCI clearances. Do some research before you sound like more of an idiot than you already do.
He's a Russian stooge. He doesn't care how stupid he sounds
 

Lesh

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Obama took documents with him as well, as presidents tend to.
He did not. Stop spreading that lie. They were turned over to the archives and that's who has them now
 
OP
Flopper

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A SCIF does not evaluate itself,, Secure classified information facility. The FBI had no clearance to invade that space. Did every FBI agent have a SAP clearance? of course not, they broke the classified data protection laws. There was an on-site security officer, if the facility was not up to code then its his or her fault, not Trump's.
MY understanding is that all the classified documents were found in a closet and in a bedroom. Do you have something to the contrary.

Since the FBI was searching for classified documents and the SCIF was I assume within the designated area of search, it would seem the agents had the authority to seize all classified documents regardless of classification provided they were within the search area in the warrant.

Also, since an SCIF is accredited at each location, if the accreditation specifies that it's located at the home of the president, then it would no longer be accredited when the raid occurred about 18 months after the president left office.
 
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Flopper

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except that is not the real vote count, that is the count created by the fraudulent Dominion vote counting machines. Those same machines would have given Hillary the win but they were not programmed in 2016 to flip enough votes. They fixed that in 2020 and as a result be have $5 gas and 10% inflation. Are you happy with that? The actual vote count was more like 74M Trump, 63 M Biden. But the coup was successful, the USA government was taken over in November 2020.
They are offical counts as recorded by the Federal Election Commission after 573 million tax payers dollars were spent looking for fraudulent votes which revealed about 450 out of 25 million votes.
 
OP
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Nope. Trump has no security clearance. Presidents never go through the process to get a security clearance like everyone else. They get to see anything and everything by virtue of their office.

Trump no longer has that office.
The idea that ex-presidents have a security clearance for life is wrong. First, presidents have no security clearance because they don't need one being Commander and Chief since they have unrestricted access to all government documents. So when a president leaves office they have no security clearance. However, an ex-president is granted security access on a need to know basis as a courtesy. This typically occurs when the current president or high goverment offical needs to discuss sensitive information with an ex-president.
 

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