CDZ Why aren't we addressing the gun issue as a cultural problem?

[DOTR]

In fact you should ignore these. They dont mean anything.

 

[Blues Man]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Good OP Mac.

I think we can start with three places:

1. Trauma, which we're just starting to scratch the surface on. Trauma that is now handed down generation to generation. Children who were traumatized growing up, raising children who are traumatized, who grow up---and on, and on. Pretty soon this seems almost to imprint on the genes, somehow. I would not be surprised.

2. Busted-Up Families. See above. Which leads to

3. Isolation. We are so isolated from each other and our communities.

These are big topics but I think it's a start.

Trauma can only be used as an excuse for so long.

 

[DOTR]

These things happen in a vacuum. Maybe aliens. No way nation-busting has anything to do with kids turning into monsters.

 

[Blues Man]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

Why restrict people who have never committed a crime?

And a semiautomatic rifle is a semiautomatic rifle no matter what it looks like. And semiautomatic rifles have been produced for civilian use for over 100 years.

Seriously if you were really worried about murder rates you would be calling for banning all handguns. I would still oppose you but it is a better argument than banning rifles

 

[DOTR]

Whoops. Hey better get rid of that Bill of Rights.

 

[Maxdeath]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

You want to limit liberties then limit people having knives they kill more then guns. Limit autos they kill more.

But seriously the problem is simply too many are wrapped up in the idea of me.

 

[DOTR]

OldLady wants some non-lethal guns.

 

[captkaos]

The only "cultural problem" we have in relation to the gun issue is how the bed wetters have feminized the culture to the point half the males in the country are afraid of the tool, and unwilling to accept the fact that they're responsible for the security of their communities.

I can't believe there was no one in that Wal-Mart in El Paso that was able to return fire.

That's unacceptable.

The other cultural problem is that we have completely destroyed the spiritual and religious fabric of the country. If these assholes had even the fear of God or the concept they would go to hell for murdering innocent people, they wouldn't have committed these acts, yet the bed wetters are more concerned with making every symbol of Christianity disappear, while forcing everyone to embrace a cult established by a warlord, slave merchant, thief and pedophile that went to hell 1400 years ago.


.

Or maybe they are being lied to about your god from the time they are born. Perhaps they were abused or molested by a minister, priest, church elder, youth leader or family member while being forced to embrace the religious cult they are helpless to leave or resist. I have noticed in the majority of these cases the shooters are young adults who have some sort of mental health issue. perhaps under your view of the issue they wouldn't have done this if they believed in and feared a god. Ever think maybe they just rejected the existence of your god for a reason. I don't know the answer! Maybe people who are treated with Psychotropic drugs should be restricted from purchasing or possessing firearms we restrict people who drink and drive from being able to get a drivers license. But if you are prescribed Mind altering drugs for psychiatric issues nobody is allowed to know. WTF? No wonder this shit happens!

 

[captkaos]

When I was a kid, there were guns all over the place. Eight year old boys got a 22 for their birthday. Family picnics found us out back shooting holes in targets.

We weren't shooting each other so it isn't the guns. It is something else. Let's look for that something else.

Rather than bear the wrath of the left for disciplining children our society opted for medicating them out of bad behavior. The problem is they are on Ritalin, Lithium, etc. etc. from a very young age in some cases ADD, ADHD,. Then when they reach a point where they refuse to continue the drugs they enter a world they neither know or understand and act out the fantasy's they learned to embrace in their closed off internet, drug addled minds. JMO.

 

[Marion Morrison]

When I was a kid, there were guns all over the place. Eight year old boys got a 22 for their birthday. Family picnics found us out back shooting holes in targets.
We weren't shooting each other so it isn't the guns. It is something else. Let's look for that something else.

Bingo, exactly. Somewhere along the line, life became cheap.
.

Do you think that when innocent babies became a commodity and were executed in or out of the womb, that "life" just wasn't as precious as it was before?

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Human life has been devalued by leftists.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Do you have any idea how easy it is to kill a human being? So easy, in fact that it's a miracle every morning when we wake up. Life is fragile and precious.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

And to answer your question (you did ask)...its because politics equals power for a certain group. Americans have been trained, as a diversion, that politics is the answer to everything and greater Federal control equals greater happiness.
They have been trained that philosophical questions or moral questions are irrelevant..only governing questions are relevant.
Brainwashed would be a better description I suppose.
And remember the Democrat motto..."never let a crisis go to waste". If we solved our cultural issues....if we were to succeed even while the liberals attacked viciously to undo whatever efforts we were taking to solve it...then how would they gain?

Beto Orourke is right now in El Paso speaking to, I shit you not, what he is calling his "binational nation". He has been dancing on those graves until he must be exhausted by now. They all have.

You are a smart guy. Take a logical, legal approach. Ask yourself Cui Bono? Who benefits? From the time of Cicero this question has helped men of good will tease out the perp.

El Paso is "binational." You did hear that six or seven of the shoppers killed in WalMart were from across the border in Mexico? People are back and forth from both countries all the time.
I live on the border with Canada, and it is the same here. We have shoppers from Canada at our local Walmart all the time and Americans are in St. Stephen just as often. There is an annual International Festival to celebrate the "binational" state of affairs. Somehow, the Candians don't upset us.

Ya think they dont get upset because Americans aren't crossing illegally and killing people?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

Please explain why the 2nd no longer applies.

In my eyes it's needed now more than ever except during the revolutionary war.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

I know there are some who will deny this, but it's pretty clear our culture in general has been in decay for a few generations now.

In reality, the cheapening of lives has been predictable. It's just part of the decay.
.

I dont think you'll find too many people in America above the age of forty who wouldnt agree with you.
We've actually lived through the decay

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

Apparently you dont know what the 2nd was intended to accomplish.

 

[Marion Morrison]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

What a Communist thing to say.

"29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis. "

The Communist Takeover Of America - 45 Declared Goals

 

[Oddball]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, and they're easily accessible by any maniac. So legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Because it doesn't blame the inanimate object that cannot defend itself.

 

[Oddball]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

 

[OldLady]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

And to answer your question (you did ask)...its because politics equals power for a certain group. Americans have been trained, as a diversion, that politics is the answer to everything and greater Federal control equals greater happiness.
They have been trained that philosophical questions or moral questions are irrelevant..only governing questions are relevant.
Brainwashed would be a better description I suppose.
And remember the Democrat motto..."never let a crisis go to waste". If we solved our cultural issues....if we were to succeed even while the liberals attacked viciously to undo whatever efforts we were taking to solve it...then how would they gain?

Beto Orourke is right now in El Paso speaking to, I shit you not, what he is calling his "binational nation". He has been dancing on those graves until he must be exhausted by now. They all have.

You are a smart guy. Take a logical, legal approach. Ask yourself Cui Bono? Who benefits? From the time of Cicero this question has helped men of good will tease out the perp.

El Paso is "binational." You did hear that six or seven of the shoppers killed in WalMart were from across the border in Mexico? People are back and forth from both countries all the time.
I live on the border with Canada, and it is the same here. We have shoppers from Canada at our local Walmart all the time and Americans are in St. Stephen just as often. There is an annual International Festival to celebrate the "binational" state of affairs. Somehow, the Candians don't upset us.

No they dont bother us..."somehow". You will want to get cracking on destroying that now. Cant have Americans being comfortable.
Shoppers dont make a nation "binational". If it does then we should ban shoppers. Our president doesnt represent a "bination". He represents the United States.
Any more treason?

But no we arent binational...yet. Your candidates do campaign in Mexico however...dont they?

This is the CDZ. Don't be accusing me of treason for not agreeing with you, please.

 

[captkaos]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

Why restrict people who have never committed a crime?

And a semiautomatic rifle is a semiautomatic rifle no matter what it looks like. And semiautomatic rifles have been produced for civilian use for over 100 years.

Seriously if you were really worried about murder rates you would be calling for banning all handguns. I would still oppose you but it is a better argument than banning rifles

They choose rifles most often because the Video games they play constantly glorify them. They also know to bring lots of ammo and wear body armor. As you progress in these games you gain more experience and better offensive and defensive items. There comes a point in a sick mind where killing fake images on a screen is not a big enough thrill! Sad but true!

 

[OldLady]

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

I know there are some who will deny this, but it's pretty clear our culture in general has been in decay for a few generations now.

In reality, the cheapening of lives has been predictable. It's just part of the decay.
.

It hasn't decayed. Its been brutally attacked. But here are the facts...

(1) the second amendment is more than 200 years old
(2) mass shootings are a recent phenomenon
(3)liberal attacks on our society and culture are a recent phenomenon

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

Why restrict people who have never committed a crime?

And a semiautomatic rifle is a semiautomatic rifle no matter what it looks like. And semiautomatic rifles have been produced for civilian use for over 100 years.

Seriously if you were really worried about murder rates you would be calling for banning all handguns. I would still oppose you but it is a better argument than banning rifles

I suppose you're right. Maybe I need to think about including handguns in my ban, but I thought people should have the right to personal protection if it means so much to them.