CDZ Why aren't we addressing the gun issue as a cultural problem?

[Geaux4it]

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

 

[Blues Man]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

 

[OldLady]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

 

[Blues Man]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

And if there was a snowball's chance in hell of doing that it would already have been tried

 

[DOTR]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

And to answer your question (you did ask)...its because politics equals power for a certain group. Americans have been trained, as a diversion, that politics is the answer to everything and greater Federal control equals greater happiness.
They have been trained that philosophical questions or moral questions are irrelevant..only governing questions are relevant.
Brainwashed would be a better description I suppose.
And remember the Democrat motto..."never let a crisis go to waste". If we solved our cultural issues....if we were to succeed even while the liberals attacked viciously to undo whatever efforts we were taking to solve it...then how would they gain?

Beto Orourke is right now in El Paso speaking to, I shit you not, what he is calling his "binational nation". He has been dancing on those graves until he must be exhausted by now. They all have.

You are a smart guy. Take a logical, legal approach. Ask yourself Cui Bono? Who benefits? From the time of Cicero this question has helped men of good will tease out the perp.

El Paso is "binational." You did hear that six or seven of the shoppers killed in WalMart were from across the border in Mexico? People are back and forth from both countries all the time.
I live on the border with Canada, and it is the same here. We have shoppers from Canada at our local Walmart all the time and Americans are in St. Stephen just as often. There is an annual International Festival to celebrate the "binational" state of affairs. Somehow, the Candians don't upset us.

No they dont bother us..."somehow". You will want to get cracking on destroying that now. Cant have Americans being comfortable.
Shoppers dont make a nation "binational". If it does then we should ban shoppers. Our president doesnt represent a "bination". He represents the United States.
Any more treason?

But no we arent binational...yet. Your candidates do campaign in Mexico however...dont they?

 

[MAGAman]

We are a gun culture

You stumbled into the truth.

America has always been a pro-gun culture. America was historically much more Conservative than it is now.

It's no coincidence that the more Americans are convinced that innocent human babies have no right to life that there is an increase in those that don't think adults have a right to life either.

You can't be truly against gun violence is you don't believe in human rights.

 

[DOTR]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

So put the insane people where they belong in a rubber room, in a nice cozy jacket, but then most of the Democrat party would be put away.

Nooo..to the oldladys it is normal people you strip liberties from when criminals act. The world of the liberal is truly insane...and evil.

 

[DOTR]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

Then why do you support people who have never once tried to amend the constitution but rather do it through courts and legislation?
You would fail at ripping out one of the Bill of Rights and you know it. So you take the sleazy route to punching a hole in it.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

Good OP Mac.

I think we can start with three places:

1. Trauma, which we're just starting to scratch the surface on. Trauma that is now handed down generation to generation. Children who were traumatized growing up, raising children who are traumatized, who grow up---and on, and on. Pretty soon this seems almost to imprint on the genes, somehow. I would not be surprised.

2. Busted-Up Families. See above. Which leads to

3. Isolation. We are so isolated from each other and our communities.

These are big topics but I think it's a start.

 

[Mac1958]

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

I know there are some who will deny this, but it's pretty clear our culture in general has been in decay for a few generations now.

In reality, the cheapening of lives has been predictable. It's just part of the decay.
.

 

[OldLady]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

 

[SweetSue92]

The only "cultural problem" we have in relation to the gun issue is how the bed wetters have feminized the culture to the point half the males in the country are afraid of the tool, and unwilling to accept the fact that they're responsible for the security of their communities.

I can't believe there was no one in that Wal-Mart in El Paso that was able to return fire.

That's unacceptable.

The other cultural problem is that we have completely destroyed the spiritual and religious fabric of the country. If these assholes had even the fear of God or the concept they would go to hell for murdering innocent people, they wouldn't have committed these acts, yet the bed wetters are more concerned with making every symbol of Christianity disappear, while forcing everyone to embrace a cult established by a warlord, slave merchant, thief and pedophile that went to hell 1400 years ago.


.

Going along with this. To be a little simplistic about it perhaps:

Men are not encouraged to have a Noble Cause. Marriage, fatherhood, careers---these are not considered worthy and noble. They are, they so are. So are other things. But young men often slouch through the young adulthood without any of these things as a seemingly tangible goal.

These things above--they "civilize" men. And I don't mean to say men are savage brutes with them, that's not what I mean. What I do mean is, for the goal of winning a woman's hand or protecting his children or conquering (whatever) men have built civilizations.

They don't seem to have that anymore. But they still need it--deep down I think they want it.

 

[DOTR]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

And if there was a snowball's chance in hell of doing that it would already have been tried

Liberals dont operate that way. They negate the Constitution through court cases and legislation. Its because they would fail if they openly exposed their designs. It has to be piecemeal.
Americans will never amend their constitution to strip away one of the basic rights in the Bill of Rights. Some more decent people..and parties..would then say "ok we serve you and not vice versa". The Democrats believe citizens serve the government instead.

 

[DOTR]

I was raised in the 60's-mid-70's. It appears today there is a lack of personal accountability, even for our youth. It wasn't just my parents teaching us that when we are out and about we represented the family name. And as such, you carried to much pride in that fact to even think about something as hideous as mass murder. Another area where some are failing in the home is teaching our youth that they are always 'special' too..... In reality.... No they're not......

They are not like Johnny who is the stud pitcher on his pony league team yet at seasons end, the all-star is reduced to also ran by receiving a participation trophy like the other players on the team who couldn't find the dugout.

Some folks just can't stand losing

-Geaux

I know there are some who will deny this, but it's pretty clear our culture in general has been in decay for a few generations now.

In reality, the cheapening of lives has been predictable. It's just part of the decay.
.

It hasn't decayed. Its been brutally attacked. But here are the facts...

(1) the second amendment is more than 200 years old
(2) mass shootings are a recent phenomenon
(3)liberal attacks on our society and culture are a recent phenomenon

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

Yep. You immediately went to restricting liberties. Without thought or hesitation. You caused this...and to fix it we have to burn the constitution.

Changing the Second Amendment -- or getting rid of it because it is outmoded and no longer applies -- is not burning the Constitution. As a matter of fact, the Constitution tells us exactly how to go about doing such.

So the anchor baby amendment is outdated and needs to be gotten rid of because there arent slaves anymore.

 

[DOTR]

Just a coincidence im sure.

 

[DOTR]

And another coincidence

 

[DOTR]

The coincidences keep piling up

 

[DOTR]

Now dont jump to any conclusions...

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I don't have a simple legislative answer for the gun problem. There are already ten kazillion guns out there, they're easily accessible by any maniac, so legislating along the fringes can only do so much. Can we do some legislating here and there? Sure, let's look at EVERYTHING. But legislation's efficacy will be limited and long term only.

Obviously, our poisoned political environment is going to slow down (or worse) anything major that we try to do. That appears to be the goal, for some reason. But is it possible for us all to look at this as a cultural issue? WHY is life so cheap now? HOW do people become so radicalized? WHAT pushes a damaged person over that last edge of sanity and turns them into a monster? WHEN can we step in without harming a person's liberties?

And perhaps most importantly, how can we COMMUNICATE, COLLABORATE and INNOVATE in this toxic political environment, to SAVE LIVES? Certainly we have to look at entertainment. Certainly we have to look at partisan politics from a macro perspective. Certainly we have to look at the internet. There are some things we all can consider. No?

I think MOST of our problems are cultural, directly or indirectly. This is another example. But we're tying our own hands.
.

We are skipping over a big part of the answer: Define what a person's liberties are. In no society should it be so easy to kill one another. That should not be a part of a person's "liberties."

No one has the liberty to kill anyone.
A person's right to keep and bear arms is not the right to discharge those firearms anywhere at anytime.

The gun owner must have express permission from the property owner if he wishes to shoot on that property. Most towns have ordinances clearly stating where and when firearms can be discharged.

If a person fires on another person in self defense there is no presumption of innocence and the act of firing on another must be justified by the person who acted in self defense.

Sounds like reasonable infringement to me. So why not restriction on what types of weapons a person can own? Military knock offs with 100 round magazines don't belong in the hands of civilians. As a matter of fact, why in hell do we need bullet proof vests and other body armor? All this military equipment should be kept in the military with folks who need it and are trained to use it properly.

Go answer the question in the rubber room that I hypothetically posted. Then come back here.