Why Are US Churches Tax Exempt?

[sear]

tax exemption is actually a violation of the First

I invite you to clarify this in precise detail, first by quoting the specific grammatical clause in 1A that tax exemption violates, and then clarify in what way that clause is violated.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

The amount of charity and assistance to the community churches do makes the tax exempt issue a steal for local government.

Of course, leftists are pressing a "government or nothing" approach, but Catholic Charities is a beast in helping those in need. It's a shame they aren't appreciated and suppressed as far as options. Instead, as we know, if you're someone who needs help, it's all about how unjust the system is, and the only answer is to vote for a Democrat, as they rule over decades more of poverty and poor living conditions.

 

[Meriweather]

Oh?
How so?

We might consider the fact that protesting against taxation without representation was the launching point of our new nation. One of the first things we agreed upon was the separation of Church and State. If the government wants to tax churches, then shouldn't it automatically follow that churches get representation in government?

 

[dblack]

Oh?
How so?

The First: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ..."

A special exemption for state-approved religions is, very obviously, a 'law respecting an establishment of religion'.

Tax exemption encroaches as much or more than taxation?

Yes. Religions must give up their right to be politically active to get the perk. They must also must be part of a "proper religion", as recognized by the state. This is a direct violation of the letter and spirit of the First Amendment.

 

[JoeBlow]

America is a predominately religious country, and yet has never gone to war over religion. ...

9/11 and the aftermath. Or weren't you born yet?

 

[sear]

The First: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ..."

A special exemption for state-approved religions is, very obviously, a 'law respecting an establishment of religion'.

Ah!
So by exempting some religions from taxation, it favors them to the disadvantage of those not exempt?
Superb point. Thank you for making it.

Yes. Religions must give up their right to be politically active to get the perk. They must also must be part of a "proper religion", as recognized by the state. This is a direct violation of letter and spirit of the First Amendment.

Intending to not disagree, what remedy do you suggest?

If there aren't enough lifeboats for every passenger on the Titanic, then they should ALL drown?

 

[dblack]

Ah!
So by exempting some religions from taxation, it favors them to the disadvantage of those not exempt?
Superb point. Thank you for making it.

You're welcome.

Intending to not disagree, what remedy do you suggest?

Repeal the exemption.

If there aren't enough lifeboats for every passenger on the Titanic, then they should ALL drown?

??

 

[sear]

We might consider the fact that protesting against taxation without representation was the launching point of our new nation. One of the first things we agreed upon was the separation of Church and State. If the government wants to tax churches, then shouldn't it automatically follow that churches get representation in government?

I deeply appreciate the lucidity of this reasoning. Thanks much for posting it.
Yes.
Don't churches get government representation? The U.S. churches I recall seem to meet fire code.

??

We ought not make the good the enemy of the perfect.
I'm not endorsing the inequity of religious tax exemption. Follow that to extreme (reductio ad absurdum), the camaraderie, the fellowship, the community support some get from Sunday mass, others may get at the bowling alley. So why grant the 2nd Baptist Church of Bayonne a tax exemption, but not Ernie's Lanes?

My appreciation for the forest may equal the religious devotion of some regular church attendees. They get benefit of exemption, I don't.

I can NOT endorse these inequities. BUT !!
The incest that could arise without the "wall of separation between Church & State" is so daunting a prospect I'd advocate diligence in avoiding that risk.

 

[Meriweather]

Don't churches get government representation? The U.S. churches I recall seem to meet fire code.

I am not following. How so?

 

[dblack]

I deeply appreciate the lucidity of this reasoning. Thanks much for posting it.
Yes.
Don't churches get government representation? The U.S. churches I recall seem to meet fire code.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

We ought not make the good the enemy of the perfect.
I'm not endorsing the inequity of religious tax exemption.

It's not the inequity of it that bothers me. It's the aspect of control. Using tax exemptions (incentives, penalties, etc ...) has become a backdoor way for Congress to manipulate society - effectively dong an end-run around proper Constitutional limits on their power. ie they use the tax code for things that couldn't get away with as straightforward legislation.

The "individual mandate" from ACA is a good example. If Congress had tried to pass a law requiring everyone to buy health insurance from their buddies in the industry or be fined, the Court would have slapped them down. But if they wrap it into the tax policy, and call it an "incentive", suddenly it's allowed. Same shit, just different small print.

The incest that could arise without the "wall of separation between Church & State" is so daunting a prospect I'd advocate diligence in avoiding that risk.

But that's what I'm getting at. The tax exemption doesn't fortify the "wall of separation", it undermines it. In reality, it's a policy of government that suppresses the power of religions and keeps them on a leash. You see that every time a religion gets more politically active than the government likes, and pundits start talking about revoking their exemption.

 

[LittleNipper]

Why are hospitals, schools, and orphanages not taxed?

 

[JohnDB]

Why are hospitals, schools, and orphanages not taxed?

Altruism

 

[LittleNipper]

Altruism

At least the pastor, deacons, secretary, elders, organist/pianist and parishioners are taxed. Is the government taxed or just the sum of its parts?

 

[JohnDB]

At least the pastor, deacons, secretary, elders, organist/pianist and parishioners are taxed. Is the government taxed or just the sum of its parts?

Sum of its parts are most definitely taxed.

Remember when all those senators hired housekeepers and nanny's but didn't pay their Social Security taxes?
Several Senators and Governor's have been caught cheating on their taxes.... even VP Spiro Agnew had to resign for cheating on his taxes.

Everyone has to pay taxes.

The church is not an industry. It doesn't have profits.

 

[sear]

If the government wants to tax churches, then shouldn't it automatically follow that churches get representation in government?

The religion bidness is not 100% tax free. A church building might be spared real estate tax. But the church van still needs license plates, fuel, etc. Those are fees & taxes churches pay.

One of the things tax payers (you and I) get is national defense. Churches get that too.
Tax payers get police coverage. So do churches.
Tax payers get benefits of zoning laws, & etc. So do churches.

THEREFORE:
despite the religious exemption, do they not get representation? If Reverend Joeschmidt contacts Representative Congman's office, you think the staffer will hang up on him as soon as he hears the title "Reverend"? Nope.

What "representation" that tax payers get, do churches forfeit by accepting the real estate tax break?

VP Spiro Agnew

When I hoist a champagne glass I enjoy the reminder:
"Dick Nixon
before HE dicks YOU!"

 

[JohnDB]

The religion bidness is not 100% tax free. A church building might be spared real estate tax. But the church van still needs license plates, fuel, etc. Those are fees & taxes churches pay.

One of the things tax payers (you and I) get is national defense. Churches get that too.
Tax payers get police coverage. So do churches.
Tax payers get benefits of zoning laws, & etc. So do churches.

THEREFORE:
despite the religious exemption, do they not get representation? If Reverend Joeschmidt contacts Representative Congman's office, you think the staffer will hang up on him as soon as he hears the title "Reverend"? Nope.

What "representation" that tax payers get, do churches forfeit by accepting the real estate tax break?


When I hoist a champagne glass I enjoy the reminder:
"Dick Nixon
before HE dicks YOU!"

These days the city and state government officials are highly likely to call my church's pastor instead of the other way around.
My church is just down the street from the governor's mansion...

We try to get along as best as we can. It's not always easy.
Especially when they are eyeballing the property belonging to first Baptist church over on Broadway. It's right next to the convention center and other city venues.

They own their own parking lot as well...and parking downtown is at a premium. Just saying that they really really want that property to begin generating taxes and incomes. Every other church downtown has moved or closed... except for a synagogue and a Catholic church. All three are fairly spread out from each other....but still downtown in prime real estate situations.

All of them are nervous...

We know that the current Mayor and Governor both are tools with no real leadership qualities. Neither of them has any courage of their convictions. (One is democrat the other republican)

Same thing with the city council. (They are a frustrating lot at opposition with each other and the officials they govern...our police chief of 11 years has quit in defiance of them...his assistant and the fire marshal had threatened to do the same and they finally backed down)
Nashville politics aren't what they used to be....they weren't exactly great at any point but they've been better than this.
Recently, after a tornado about 40,000 people (including hospitals and fire stations) spent a week without electricity because they refused to allow the power company the right to put up a new temporary pole feeding the switchyard substation.
Complaining that it was the power company's fault the whole time. ...once permission was finally grudgingly given it took an hour to restore the power.

I don't see them getting re-elected.

 

[candycorn]

 

[DudleySmith]

View attachment 759315

Bullshit from an idiot. You probably believe it.

 

[DudleySmith]

We try to get along as best as we can. It's not always easy.
Especially when they are eyeballing the property belonging to first Baptist church over on Broadway. It's right next to the convention center and other city venues.

They own their own parking lot as well...and parking downtown is at a premium. Just saying that they really really want that property to begin generating taxes and incomes. Every other church downtown has moved or closed... except for a synagogue and a Catholic church. All three are fairly spread out from each other....but still downtown in prime real estate situations.

Villages became towns, towns became cities. Most of them grew up around these church sites, so yes the properties became more valuable as a result of that. Doesn't make an argument for them to be taxed if they're being used for church purposes. A parking garage would in fact be a necessity. If it were empty lots not being used for anything, they do indeed pay taxes on that, church owned or not.

 

[DudleySmith]

The First: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ..."

A special exemption for state-approved religions is, very obviously, a 'law respecting an establishment of religion'.

It applies to keeping the Federal govt. from establishing a national favored sect is all. It did not apply to state or local govts. The last state to disestablish its state favored sect was Massachusetts, in 1834. Some can note that is some 47 years after the Constitution was ratified, and it was disestablished due to massive demographic changes after 1820 and the first big waves of immigration hit.

Yes. Religions must give up their right to be politically active to get the perk. They must also must be part of a "proper religion", as recognized by the state. This is a direct violation of the letter and spirit of the First Amendment.

More rubbish. They don't have to give up anything. That's just a snivel, not a fact or a law.