Why Are Republicans So Relentlessly Cruel to the Poor?

[Skull Pilot]

Absolutely! Nothing teaches a drowning man how to swim as effectively as telling him to fend for himself as he is going down for the third time!

Staying with that analogy, you pull the drowning man out of the surf, but you don't proceed to build walls around the ocean and a wading pool so he can play without fearing the waves. We don't want a safety net to just catch people and leave them there, we want a trampoline to bounce them back into productivity so they can again provide for themselves. That's the difference between the modern liberal and conservative approach. The conservative approach wants to see more people off assistance and able to provide for themselves while the liberal approach seems to desire more people dependent on assistance.

Exactly! Conservatives measure compassion by how many people DON'T NEED it any more.

I would doubt that very much.

You have the partisan conservatives who only care about winning, you have the conservatives who are interested only in getting as much from the system as possible, then you have a few conservatives who actually do care, but these are way in the minority.

Some people would say the same thing about partisan liberals. It's unfortunate that you really think there are only a few conservatives who actually do care.

Well, I think some people, like myself, would say that about all partisan hacks. It's unfortunate that only a few conservatives actually do care. I mean, you look on a forum like this, you see the real world, you realize that most people live in some sort of fantasy world where reality takes a back seat, and you know that too many people don't care.

yes if we don't want to control people we don't care

 

[Skull Pilot]

Which is understandable.

Now the issue here is what morals and virtues do you think are necessary in the modern world? Surely these would be morals shared by a large percentage of the country, so why aren't these morals a part of every kid's education? I mean, kids need to learn how to be adults and schools are in a position to shape kids to become the sort of adults society wants them to be.

So the morals of the majority should be indoctrinated into the children of the minority? You don't see how that's a problem?

Parents are the biggest shaper of their children, and should be completely responsible for it, not schools. Especially since A. No one loves their own children more than parents B. A school cannot give sufficient means of shaping their students, since they are not capable of giving the required time, patience, resources, to every single students individual needs.

Schools should be working with parents as parents take the lead in raising their children. Schools should definitely not be in the business of indoctrination. Only business in teaching our youth is how to learn, not what to learn, and doing so along with parents, not against them.

Not really, no. It already happens, it's called being a part of society.

Parents are the biggest shaper of their own children, and many of them aren't shaping their kids into respectable members of society.

We make laws, we demand that people abide by these rules. You don't see how that's a problem?
Perhaps schools should be working with parents to help shape their kids. Problem is that being a parent doesn't come with many must dos, one of those is getting them an education, and often it's left to teachers to try and shape those kids into decent human beings because their parents won't.

Now, if their parents won't, chances are when they become parents they won't either, do you see the problem here?

The schools need to teach. Period.

The only purpose of public education or any education for that matter is to give a person the tools to think for himself and make his own decisions.

all this "molding "shaping" "influencing" shit along with ham handed behavioral modification via tax penalties is nothing but a control freak's wet dream

Except that it's not. Have you ever taught kids? Probably not, then you'd understand that one of the skills of a good teacher is to shape kids so they do better.

You mean tell them what to think

 

[Skull Pilot]

When Obamacare was passed in 2009, 60% of Americans did not approve. Obamacare

Newt Gingrich? You gotta be shitting me! I never considered Newt an un-biased source. And neither were the polls he was referring to. According to the poll takers, when they asked the question, "What do you think about Obamacare?", the favorable response was considerately less than when they asked the question, "What do you think about the Affordable Care Act?"

From your link...
"When pollsters ask the public about individual elements of Obamacare, like coverage for pre-existing conditions, the majority favors them..."

"In those studies that ask more generally about health care reform, Republicans respond more favorably."​

It depends on how you ask the question. So to make a long story short, your link sides with me, not you.

From your link...
"Gingrich eliminates the context of other polls, which show that a majority of people do approve of individual components of Obamacare." ​

Now before I continue...



...damn, that's good beer!

Bush would have won Florida. The Florida Recount of 2000 - FactCheck.org

From your own link...

"...the study also found that Gore probably would have won, by a range of 42 to 171 votes out of 6 million cast, had there been a broad recount of all disputed ballots statewide."​

...nuff said there.

Where did the WMDs go that Sadaam had in January of 2001 when Clinton was President. Clinton, Gore, Kerry all claimed Iraq had WMDs. Did they lie also?

He didn't have any in January of 2001. He hadn't had any since 1993. And after we bombed him back to the stone age, he had no ability to make any.

When Bush and Cheney stood up in front of the entire country and said, "We know Iraq has WMD's", that is a lie. When you say you know something and don't, that's a deliberate lie.

Are the people not getting meals on wheels starving or are they getting their meals through a private source?

Who knows? They're not getting their meals from wheels and that's good enough for this argument.

Let's have a drink...

Dos Equis sucks and good beer doesn't come in a can

 

[frigidweirdo]

So the morals of the majority should be indoctrinated into the children of the minority? You don't see how that's a problem?

Parents are the biggest shaper of their children, and should be completely responsible for it, not schools. Especially since A. No one loves their own children more than parents B. A school cannot give sufficient means of shaping their students, since they are not capable of giving the required time, patience, resources, to every single students individual needs.

Schools should be working with parents as parents take the lead in raising their children. Schools should definitely not be in the business of indoctrination. Only business in teaching our youth is how to learn, not what to learn, and doing so along with parents, not against them.

Not really, no. It already happens, it's called being a part of society.

Parents are the biggest shaper of their own children, and many of them aren't shaping their kids into respectable members of society.

We make laws, we demand that people abide by these rules. You don't see how that's a problem?
Perhaps schools should be working with parents to help shape their kids. Problem is that being a parent doesn't come with many must dos, one of those is getting them an education, and often it's left to teachers to try and shape those kids into decent human beings because their parents won't.

Now, if their parents won't, chances are when they become parents they won't either, do you see the problem here?

The schools need to teach. Period.

The only purpose of public education or any education for that matter is to give a person the tools to think for himself and make his own decisions.

all this "molding "shaping" "influencing" shit along with ham handed behavioral modification via tax penalties is nothing but a control freak's wet dream

Except that it's not. Have you ever taught kids? Probably not, then you'd understand that one of the skills of a good teacher is to shape kids so they do better.

You mean tell them what to think

Yes. You do realize that not everyone knows how to think, right? In fact that vast majority of people don't have a clue how to use their brain. Why do you think political advertising works as well as fast food advertising?

 

[Billo_Really]

Now that's a typical liberal statement: It doesn't matter if there was a law.........

That's the problem right there. Liberals don't care about laws. Again, the criminal element.

Have it your way. According to your position, it was okay for Hitler to kill 6 million Jews.

He wasn't breaking the law, so that wasn't a criminal act?

 

[Billo_Really]

Dos Equis sucks and good beer doesn't come in a can

Where does it come from? Your bathtub?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Not really, no. It already happens, it's called being a part of society.

Parents are the biggest shaper of their own children, and many of them aren't shaping their kids into respectable members of society.

We make laws, we demand that people abide by these rules. You don't see how that's a problem?
Perhaps schools should be working with parents to help shape their kids. Problem is that being a parent doesn't come with many must dos, one of those is getting them an education, and often it's left to teachers to try and shape those kids into decent human beings because their parents won't.

Now, if their parents won't, chances are when they become parents they won't either, do you see the problem here?

The schools need to teach. Period.

The only purpose of public education or any education for that matter is to give a person the tools to think for himself and make his own decisions.

all this "molding "shaping" "influencing" shit along with ham handed behavioral modification via tax penalties is nothing but a control freak's wet dream

Except that it's not. Have you ever taught kids? Probably not, then you'd understand that one of the skills of a good teacher is to shape kids so they do better.

You mean tell them what to think

Yes. You do realize that not everyone knows how to think, right? In fact that vast majority of people don't have a clue how to use their brain. Why do you think political advertising works as well as fast food advertising?

so you need to tell people how to think the way YOU want them to think

mind your own business and let people make their own choices

 

[Skull Pilot]

Dos Equis sucks and good beer doesn't come in a can

Where does it come from? Your bathtub?

you can't make beer in a bathtub
just goes to show you you don't know anything about good beer you drink Dos Equis from a can after all

 

[Billo_Really]

Once again, the Florida law states that all ballots must be certified in seven days. I understand you are a liberal and probably pretty slow, but what don't you understand about this law? It's rather simplistic.

Yes, because the recount was illegal. The recount violated Florida election laws.

That's exactly what he did.

Alright, you called the game, if we are going to strictly follow the law, then the 687 flawed oversee votes that came in after the election date, should have not been counted. Bush won by 537 votes.

Florida's certified election results, listed on the Florida Department of State's Web site, show that ...Although Mr. Bush appeared to hold a fluctuating lead throughout the 36 days of recounts...without the overseas absentee ballots counted after Election Day, Mr. Gore would have won Florida by 202 votes, and thus the White House. ​

Scalia violated the law when he allowed the unequal treatment of these votes to be counted.

The unequal treatment of these ballots...conflicts with the equal protection guarantee that the United States Supreme Court invoked in December when it halted a statewide manual recount and effectively handed Florida to Mr. Bush.​

 

[Billo_Really]

you can't make beer in a bathtub

My grandmother did during prohibition.

just goes to show you you don't know anything about good beer you drink Dos Equis from a can after all

No, it just shows I don't feel like driving down to the pub every time I want a drink or go through the extra hassle of buying a keg.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Once again, the Florida law states that all ballots must be certified in seven days. I understand you are a liberal and probably pretty slow, but what don't you understand about this law? It's rather simplistic.

Yes, because the recount was illegal. The recount violated Florida election laws.

That's exactly what he did.

Alright, you called the game, if we are going to strictly follow the law, then the 687 flawed oversee votes that came in after the election date, should have not been counted. Bush won by 537 votes.

Florida's certified election results, listed on the Florida Department of State's Web site, show that ...Although Mr. Bush appeared to hold a fluctuating lead throughout the 36 days of recounts...without the overseas absentee ballots counted after Election Day, Mr. Gore would have won Florida by 202 votes, and thus the White House. ​

Scalia violated the law when he allowed the unequal treatment of these votes to be counted.

The unequal treatment of these ballots...conflicts with the equal protection guarantee that the United States Supreme Court invoked in December when it halted a statewide manual recount and effectively handed Florida to Mr. Bush.​

/---- Didn't AlBore cherry pick the districts he wanted recounted?

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Republicans are enslaving the poor on welfare plantations ???

Who knew ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

you can't make beer in a bathtub

My grandmother did during prohibition.

just goes to show you you don't know anything about good beer you drink Dos Equis from a can after all

No, it just shows I don't feel like driving down to the pub every time I want a drink or go through the extra hassle of buying a keg.

you make gin in a bathtub not beer you can't carbonate a liquid in a bathtub

but you still drink Dos Equis so that says it all

 

[hadit]

No, if it was a mistake, it might have been mentioned once or twice. Such as Sen. Obama claiming he had visited 57 states.

My point is, how could he know, at that time, that people couldn't keep their doctor? They were still setting up the exchanges.

He knew because he knew what was in the bill that would make it almost impossible.

 

[Wyatt earp]

When Obamacare was passed in 2009, 60% of Americans did not approve. Obamacare

Newt Gingrich? You gotta be shitting me! I never considered Newt an un-biased source. And neither were the polls he was referring to. According to the poll takers, when they asked the question, "What do you think about Obamacare?", the favorable response was considerately less than when they asked the question, "What do you think about the Affordable Care Act?"

From your link...
"When pollsters ask the public about individual elements of Obamacare, like coverage for pre-existing conditions, the majority favors them..."

"In those studies that ask more generally about health care reform, Republicans respond more favorably."​

It depends on how you ask the question. So to make a long story short, your link sides with me, not you.

From your link...
"Gingrich eliminates the context of other polls, which show that a majority of people do approve of individual components of Obamacare." ​

Now before I continue...



...damn, that's good beer!

Bush would have won Florida. The Florida Recount of 2000 - FactCheck.org

From your own link...

"...the study also found that Gore probably would have won, by a range of 42 to 171 votes out of 6 million cast, had there been a broad recount of all disputed ballots statewide."​

...nuff said there.

Where did the WMDs go that Sadaam had in January of 2001 when Clinton was President. Clinton, Gore, Kerry all claimed Iraq had WMDs. Did they lie also?

He didn't have any in January of 2001. He hadn't had any since 1993. And after we bombed him back to the stone age, he had no ability to make any.

When Bush and Cheney stood up in front of the entire country and said, "We know Iraq has WMD's", that is a lie. When you say you know something and don't, that's a deliberate lie.

Are the people not getting meals on wheels starving or are they getting their meals through a private source?

Who knows? They're not getting their meals from wheels and that's good enough for this argument.

Let's have a drink...

It was reported that ISIS got there hands on Saddam's old WMDs and used them, the military found a bunch of them BTW... So to out right say they were not there is as retarded to say Trump was not wire tapped



.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Nobody hates the poor, what a stupid thing to say. Conservatives generally believe it's better to create an environment where the poor can help themselves as opposed to making them dependent of the gov't.

Absolutely! Nothing teaches a drowning man how to swim as effectively as telling him to fend for himself as he is going down for the third time!

Staying with that analogy, you pull the drowning man out of the surf, but you don't proceed to build walls around the ocean and a wading pool so he can play without fearing the waves. We don't want a safety net to just catch people and leave them there, we want a trampoline to bounce them back into productivity so they can again provide for themselves. That's the difference between the modern liberal and conservative approach. The conservative approach wants to see more people off assistance and able to provide for themselves while the liberal approach seems to desire more people dependent on assistance.

Yep, that kind of fits what I know about conservatives. Throw a drowning man a trampoline!

Were you aware that the definition of "know" is NOT "what I want to believe"?

 

[Cecilie1200]

No one loves their own children more than parents

Wish that were true. Millions of people, sadly, see their kids as an inconvenience. If that was not true, there would not be millions of abortions and millions of kids living in poverty.

You know, I was just thinking about that this morning, and I plan to write fully about it in the new blog I'm starting.

We live in a society that is largely incapable of understanding the idea that anything could be larger or more important than our own personal selves, existence, and convenience. Thus, the once inherently understood concept that once you create those little hostages to fortune (children, for the leftists among us), you sign on to an implicit agreement that they are now a higher priority than you are is met with anything from blank incomprehension to outright revulsion.

Even people who have decided they want to have children and make changes and sacrifices in their lives because of it are often doing so less for the sake of the child than for the sake of their own impending parenthood, ie. the desired change in their own personal status and identity.

Is it any wonder that we're having so much difficulty in fighting a culture that still embraces the idea of sacrificing the self in service of a larger, more important goal?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yeah, Sparkles, you just keep telling yourself THAT'S how reality is.

I was telling you that, not me. If you want to debate this issue, then lets do it. If you just want to act like a condescending little ***** and sit back and think how cool you're trying to sound, then just keep doing what you're doing.

Seriously, though, does that "shouting at the universe to make it reform and suit me" thing you lefties do ever actually work?

That statement makes no sense whatsoever.

Your lack of English comprehension is not my problem. Speak to your high school teachers about their failure in this area.

 

[Cecilie1200]

the poor have no place in America. it's always been that way. but to state that means one is anti American. so if that is the case then I guess I am anti American...and PROUD of it. Facts hurt.

While I kind of understand what you're trying to get at, I have to disagree. I think when Christ said, "The poor you will always have with you", it was intended to clue us in to the fact that they DO have a place in every society. What that place is and how we address it is going to speak to who we are as people and as a culture. I believe our forebears, who came from a very Christian background no matter how much leftists try to argue it away, tried to address this by creating a nation where the place of the poor, as much as humanly possible, is at the beginning of a wide-open vista of possibilities for no longer being poor.

And as much as leftists hate it and wish it otherwise, making people as comfortable as possible in their poverty does NOT help.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, if it was a mistake, it might have been mentioned once or twice. Such as Sen. Obama claiming he had visited 57 states.

My point is, how could he know, at that time, that people couldn't keep their doctor? They were still setting up the exchanges.

Well, gee, how did everyone ELSE know ahead of time when they were saying, "Keep your doctor. Yeah, right. THAT'S not going to happen"? Were they psychic? Were they just smarter and more perceptive than Obama? Or did he know what they knew, and just lie his ass off to get support? I guess it depends on how ignorant one wishes to believe Obama to be.