Where does Religion fit in?

[emilynghiem]

When the question came up in my email, where does Religion fit in? The skeptic was confused about how anything positive could come from religions that all were messed up. Many people replied that religion is different from faith. But didn't explain how to correct anything.

Here is my answer below.

I still believe we use religions as tools like languages to communicate.

(On Facebook I have friends arguing all people are supposed to adhere to the Original Hebrew laws scriptures and instructions. But again, I believe each tribe uses its own laws language or tongue to rebuke and guide its own members committed to those ways. I still believe Jesus as Universal Authority of Justice fulfills all these laws, but do not believe any group should waste time arguing to impose their beliefs on other groups which are held to account by their own laws respectively)

Agree or disagree?
===

Dear @Confused-by-Christianity
What helps me make sense of the mess I see is to separate the religion from the actual spiritual laws and process. Then you can discern which parts are on target and which are distorted and corrupted.

When a bad musician mangles a song, you see the difference when a good musician performs it correctly.

Here there are 3 levels that rarely coincide perfectly
A. The universally true spiritual and natural laws that all humans are affected by
B. The religions or "languages" for the laws that different cultures, tribes or generations have used to ATTEMPT to explain and communicate these laws so groups can operate under common principles (whether church or state rules, nonprofit or community programs that try to define common standards all members agree to follow)

C. The actual exercise or practice in real life (which neither hits B or A perfectly)

Our whole struggle as humanity is trying to reconcile our daily lives and relations as in C with A the collective truth and laws for all society and humanity collectively.

We use B as tools to try to communicate and operate between groups and institutions.

But we fail.

So we make messes of B and C, while struggling to fulfill the universal ideals in A that would unite us on common goals of truth justice and peace for all, including ourselves and others equally.

We speak different religious languages and can barely reconcile with our fellow group members, while the bigger goal is to harmonize between these diverse groups and nations worldwide.

You ask how do we do this?

Each person has a unique path and process.

We help each other fulfill that path and process like a team helping fellow members.

Then each team works in partnership with other teams to help serve the greater public interest.

It takes teamwork and both helping individually and collectively for the whole to work.

If you ever watch an orchestra rehearse or a sports team practice, it takes individual work plus group effort.

The religious cohesion is for helping whole groups get their resources and act together.

These are tools to help us because people are socially and spiritually interdependent

We need to help each other to grow and learn.

We screw it up badly and that is part of the learning curve to reach full maturity.

Does this help?

As for what role does Christ and Christianity play in this process.

Christ is the central authority that connects all human conscience with the common drive toward justice and peace, but by free will or freedom which is built into our human nature and governed by natural laws.

We all respond to democratic process where our free will and consent is part of that process of making decisions in life and relationships

Jesus represents Universal Justice or Equal Justice Under Law. We all want this but not everyone believes we can have justice.

Retributive Justice is the negative force of Antichrist or abuse of authority that tries to control other people out of greed for power or punishment and revenge. This is what corrupts laws and govt to make war and oppress people by injustice abusing the name of justice to do wrong. Two wrongs don't make things right, but man's ways are selfish and become politically self serving.

Christ Jesus is the authority of Restorative Justice which allows forgiveness and correction of past sins wrongs and injustice so wounds of war and injured relations can be healed and restored in peace

This spirit of Justice and Peace which the Bible represents as Jesus and the Holy Spirit governs over all humanity, all tribes and nations of all languages and religions, to fulfill all laws under one universal authority.

So the point of humanity's process of spiritual, social and political/economic development is to grow toward achieving lasting peace and justice for all, as the Kingdom of God on earth. Heaven represents this divine peace on a collective scale that surpasses our limited human experiences and understanding.

The Bible is both symbolic and captures a real message that is universal for all humanity. We all need to make peace and receive this commitment to live by Justice and Peace in our own hearts and minds, so we may bring peace to our local and persondl relations, before we transform our institutions and nations to live in peace worldwide.

We start locally with ourselves, then heal our relations with each other, and this multiples to bring peace globally around the world when every person, every community and nation realizes the same love of truth justice and peace that sets us free from past suffering and strife.

Faith in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice breaks the cycle of war and suffering, destruction and death from human problems, and allows us to restore good faith, health and healing to people and the planet.

This applies to people of any tribe, faith or no faith. We all want truth justice and peace. The Holy Trinity of God Jesus and Holy Spirit represents all humanity receiving this to achieve the Kingdom of God, within us and among us. That is the meaning and message in the Bible and what it means for Christ Jesus to save all humanity from past sins.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

What would Jesus do?

 

[emilynghiem]

What would Jesus do?

Some say he would disregard all religion and just have us love one another regardless.

I believe that with the elders and pharisees of each tribe, he would hold judges to their own words. People who judge others would be judged by their own standards, and quit imposing one group on another. No. To each their own!

Other friends of mine believe all people will be held to the Bible and original Scripture. I argue only those who claim to live and judge by it are held to it by their own words.

I believe Buddhists will be held to Buddhist rebuke and corrections.
Atheists by their secular standards.
Muslims by Muslim Authority.
Anarchists by Anarchist etc.

All corrections and solutions established and governed in Christ Jesus Authority but relative to each group or culture to reach those people by their own words and ways.

 

[alang1216]

When the question came up in my email, where does Religion fit in? The skeptic was confused about how anything positive could come from religions that all were messed up. Many people replied that religion is different from faith. But didn't explain how to correct anything.

Here is my answer below.

I still believe we use religions as tools like languages to communicate.

(On Facebook I have friends arguing all people are supposed to adhere to the Original Hebrew laws scriptures and instructions. But again, I believe each tribe uses its own laws language or tongue to rebuke and guide its own members committed to those ways. I still believe Jesus as Universal Authority of Justice fulfills all these laws, but do not believe any group should waste time arguing to impose their beliefs on other groups which are held to account by their own laws respectively)

Agree or disagree?
===



As for what role does Christ and Christianity play in this process.

Christ is the central authority that connects all human conscience with the common drive toward justice and peace, but by free will or freedom which is built into our human nature and governed by natural laws.

We all respond to democratic process where our free will and consent is part of that process of making decisions in life and relationships

Jesus represents Universal Justice or Equal Justice Under Law. We all want this but not everyone believes we can have justice.

Retributive Justice is the negative force of Antichrist or abuse of authority that tries to control other people out of greed for power or punishment and revenge. This is what corrupts laws and govt to make war and oppress people by injustice abusing the name of justice to do wrong. Two wrongs don't make things right, but man's ways are selfish and become politically self serving.

Christ Jesus is the authority of Restorative Justice which allows forgiveness and correction of past sins wrongs and injustice so wounds of war and injured relations can be healed and restored in peace

This spirit of Justice and Peace which the Bible represents as Jesus and the Holy Spirit governs over all humanity, all tribes and nations of all languages and religions, to fulfill all laws under one universal authority.

So the point of humanity's process of spiritual, social and political/economic development is to grow toward achieving lasting peace and justice for all, as the Kingdom of God on earth. Heaven represents this divine peace on a collective scale that surpasses our limited human experiences and understanding.

The Bible is both symbolic and captures a real message that is universal for all humanity. We all need to make peace and receive this commitment to live by Justice and Peace in our own hearts and minds, so we may bring peace to our local and persondl relations, before we transform our institutions and nations to live in peace worldwide.

We start locally with ourselves, then heal our relations with each other, and this multiples to bring peace globally around the world when every person, every community and nation realizes the same love of truth justice and peace that sets us free from past suffering and strife.

Faith in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice breaks the cycle of war and suffering, destruction and death from human problems, and allows us to restore good faith, health and healing to people and the planet.

This applies to people of any tribe, faith or no faith. We all want truth justice and peace. The Holy Trinity of God Jesus and Holy Spirit represents all humanity receiving this to achieve the Kingdom of God, within us and among us. That is the meaning and message in the Bible and what it means for Christ Jesus to save all humanity from past sins.

In my humble, atheistic, opinion, faith is a personal attribute and should be reserved for family and people you know, not a deity have only been told about. Religion on the other hand is a construct of society and provides a moral and ethical framework for living in that society. Both can be positive or negative, depending on how they are used.

Sorry, just thinking out loud.

 

[Meriweather]

Many people replied that religion is different from faith.

Religion is not different from faith. That being said....

In Jesus day, very few, if any, had scripture scrolls in their homes. The scrolls were kept in the synagogues and Temple. We are told in Luke 4, that when Jesus went to the synagogue he was handed the scroll from Isaiah.

Today, at any time, even any place we can call up an scripture we like on our phones or computer. We don't have to wait to gather to hear scripture. The question therefore becomes, should we gather? Or, should we all just do it on our onesies?

 

[Meriweather]

What would Jesus do?

People gathered around Jesus. There were crowds. Would Jesus prefer a gathering, or would he prefer us to visit one at a time?

 

[Votto]

If God exists, can we live without him?

It is interesting Ben Franklin seemed to think that morality was the sole indicator of being free from government tyranny, especially since he was not known as being all that religious.

• “Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved, and tyranny is erected on its ruins. Republics and limited monarchies derive their strength and vigor from a popular examination into the action of the magistrates.”
• “In these sentiments, sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no form of government, but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered; and believe further, that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other.”
• “This [the U.S. Constitution] is likely to be administered for a course of years and then end in despotism... when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other.”
• “Our Constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.”

Franklin knew that to be free, a society had to be moral, otherwise, if society has the morality of a prison all that can be done is hire a warden and build a wall around society.

Oh, and about half the US supports ending freedom of speech, which comes from the Godless Left, of course.

51% of Americans Want to END Free Speech - The Organic Prepper

A new survey says that more than half of Americans want to see the First Amendment "modernized" and many even want JAIL TIME for undefined "hate speech."

www.theorganicprepper.com

 

[RetiredGySgt]

LOL that is what is wrong with people today... they think THEIR version not the bible is correct. Hate to break it to you but if you dont follow the new Testament you are not following Gods law and No Jesus would not ignore the word of God.

 

[john doe 101]

When the question came up in my email, where does Religion fit in? The skeptic was confused about how anything positive could come from religions that all were messed up. Many people replied that religion is different from faith. But didn't explain how to correct anything.

Here is my answer below.

I still believe we use religions as tools like languages to communicate.

(On Facebook I have friends arguing all people are supposed to adhere to the Original Hebrew laws scriptures and instructions. But again, I believe each tribe uses its own laws language or tongue to rebuke and guide its own members committed to those ways. I still believe Jesus as Universal Authority of Justice fulfills all these laws, but do not believe any group should waste time arguing to impose their beliefs on other groups which are held to account by their own laws respectively)

Agree or disagree?
===



As for what role does Christ and Christianity play in this process.

Christ is the central authority that connects all human conscience with the common drive toward justice and peace, but by free will or freedom which is built into our human nature and governed by natural laws.

We all respond to democratic process where our free will and consent is part of that process of making decisions in life and relationships

Jesus represents Universal Justice or Equal Justice Under Law. We all want this but not everyone believes we can have justice.

Retributive Justice is the negative force of Antichrist or abuse of authority that tries to control other people out of greed for power or punishment and revenge. This is what corrupts laws and govt to make war and oppress people by injustice abusing the name of justice to do wrong. Two wrongs don't make things right, but man's ways are selfish and become politically self serving.

Christ Jesus is the authority of Restorative Justice which allows forgiveness and correction of past sins wrongs and injustice so wounds of war and injured relations can be healed and restored in peace

This spirit of Justice and Peace which the Bible represents as Jesus and the Holy Spirit governs over all humanity, all tribes and nations of all languages and religions, to fulfill all laws under one universal authority.

So the point of humanity's process of spiritual, social and political/economic development is to grow toward achieving lasting peace and justice for all, as the Kingdom of God on earth. Heaven represents this divine peace on a collective scale that surpasses our limited human experiences and understanding.

The Bible is both symbolic and captures a real message that is universal for all humanity. We all need to make peace and receive this commitment to live by Justice and Peace in our own hearts and minds, so we may bring peace to our local and persondl relations, before we transform our institutions and nations to live in peace worldwide.

We start locally with ourselves, then heal our relations with each other, and this multiples to bring peace globally around the world when every person, every community and nation realizes the same love of truth justice and peace that sets us free from past suffering and strife.

Faith in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice breaks the cycle of war and suffering, destruction and death from human problems, and allows us to restore good faith, health and healing to people and the planet.

This applies to people of any tribe, faith or no faith. We all want truth justice and peace. The Holy Trinity of God Jesus and Holy Spirit represents all humanity receiving this to achieve the Kingdom of God, within us and among us. That is the meaning and message in the Bible and what it means for Christ Jesus to save all humanity from past sins.

Religion has no place in a modern, 21st century society. And it appears most people agree with me. Secularism is growing while religious bodies are losing members. And they arent coming back. The world will be a better place once religion is completely removed from it.

 

[Votto]

I will submit that the US success, when it comes to supporting and upholding the freedoms of the average citizen, was some what of a fluke.

Judging from human history, this was rare.

The fluke was that America was founded by people who were mostly coming to America for religions freedom, most of which were Christian. This not only led to a governing body to create laws to help protect freedoms, but also the desire to enforce those freedoms.

But as society turns secular, we see the Constitution get trashed everyday with zero enforcement, no mater which party you identify with.

As I already showed, half the country wants to get rid of the First Amendment regarding freedom of speech. And as Franklin said, if you don't have freedom of speech, all you have left is tyranny.

 

[john doe 101]

LOL that is what is wrong with people today... they think THEIR version not the bible is correct. Hate to break it to you but if you dont follow the new Testament you are not following Gods law and No Jesus would not ignore the word of God.

You didnt read your first sentence before writing your second sentence, did you?

 

[Votto]

LOL that is what is wrong with people today... they think THEIR version not the bible is correct. Hate to break it to you but if you dont follow the new Testament you are not following Gods law and No Jesus would not ignore the word of God.

The success of the US early one was not about selling the public to one particular brand of Christianity, its success was a Bible based society who sought God in their own way.

Today we don't have that.

Man either regulates his own behavior to maintain a civil society or the government will do it for them

This is why the Left is at war with morality and religion that promotes it. They want the heavy hand of government to build that wall and hire that warden to maintain a civil society rather than a free people regulating their own behavior.

 

[john doe 101]

The success of the US early one was not about selling the public to one particular brand of Christianity, its success was a Bible based society who sought God in their own way.

Today we don't have that.

Man either regulates his own behavior to maintain a civil society or the government will do it for them

This is why the Left is at war with morality and religion that promotes it. They want the heavy hand of government to build that wall and hire that warden to maintain a civil society rather than a free people regulating their own behavior.

Religion serves no purpose but to corrupt morality for it's own purposes. You can have morality without religion. You should try it some time if you are so into "regulating ones own behavior" as you purport. But I think that was just a lie when you said that. You really dont want to regulate your own behavior. You want a church or a church state to regulate morality. Otherwise, why else would you be promoting (Christian) religion so hard?

 

[GMCGeneral]

Religion serves no purpose but to corrupt morality for it's own purposes. You can have morality without religion. You should try it some time if you are so into "regulating ones own behavior" as you purport. But I think that was just a lie when you said that. You really dont want to regulate your own behavior. You want a church or a church state to regulate morality. Otherwise, why else would you be promoting (Christian) religion so hard?

It is spiritual corpses like john doe 101 who REFUSE to accept the hard truth that mankind is sinful, evil, and in need of a redeemer. And that redeemer is Yeshua Moshiach. Jesus the Messiah. but spiritual corpses like him are incapable of anything above their feeble, finite minds nor their hard hearts.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Religion has no place in a modern, 21st century society. And it appears most people agree with me. Secularism is growing while religious bodies are losing members. And they arent coming back. The world will be a better place once religion is completely removed from it.

Actually, Spiritual Revival, like those America and Europe experienced in the late 19th-early 20th Centuries is EXACTLY what we need. We need to return to the moral compass that is found in G-d's revealed Word and through the Holy Spirit. but Spiritual corpses like you don't want it because then you acknowledge you are incapable of running your own life, which you aren't

 

[Votto]

Religion serves no purpose but to corrupt morality for it's own purposes. You can have morality without religion. You should try it some time if you are so into "regulating ones own behavior" as you purport. But I think that was just a lie when you said that. You really dont want to regulate your own behavior. You want a church or a church state to regulate morality. Otherwise, why else would you be promoting (Christian) religion so hard?

The moral compass you are using to condemn religion created the moral standard you are trying to judge it with.

Idiot.

For example, where exactly does it say in the Bible that priests should be pedophiles? By the standards of the church, it is condemned, but it is tolerated because of politics.

But I can show you a Greek and Spartan society who routinely had sex with young boys. In fact, pretty much all of them did it.

No one condemned it to my knowledge.

 

[GMCGeneral]

The moral compass you are using to condemn religion created the moral standard you are trying to judge it with.

Idiot.

For example, where exactly does it say in the Bible that priests should be pedophiles? By the standards of the church, it is condemned, but it is tolerated because of politics.

But I can show you a Greek and Spartan society who routinely had sex with young boys. In fact, pretty much all of them did it.

No one condemned it to my knowledge.

If anything, in Greek/Spartan societies, it was openly encouraged.

 

[emilynghiem]

Religion serves no purpose but to corrupt morality for it's own purposes. You can have morality without religion. You should try it some time if you are so into "regulating ones own behavior" as you purport. But I think that was just a lie when you said that. You really dont want to regulate your own behavior. You want a church or a church state to regulate morality. Otherwise, why else would you be promoting (Christian) religion so hard?

Dear john doe 101
While I and others can only agree with you religion gets abused to control coerce or oppress others by collective pressure,
you also demonstrate what I described above.

When you yourself seek to correct others, you cite their own words and stated principles to show where they conflict or fail to meet their own standards.

This is what I mean by religious beliefs principles and ways of expression used as languages or tools to communicate.

In order to make a point, it only makes sense to use words and ideas of that person or audience you are addressing

Yes, collective systems whether religious or political policies and process of govt are doomed to corruption and abuse.

These are still tools to address and correct problems.

The same hammer used to build can be used to destroy.

I have more faith and hope people like us use laws and religion for correction to make things better not worse!

Both church and state, religious and political authority are prone to abuse.

The point and purpose remains to use these for good, including correcting and preventing the bad.

 

[emilynghiem]

People gathered around Jesus. There were crowds. Would Jesus prefer a gathering, or would he prefer us to visit one at a time?

Dear Meriweather
Spiritual growth involves both the internal/individual path and the process connecting people in relations and with greater humanity through spiritual healing and prayer.

There are different types of prayer for each level.

Not either or.

We need all the above, but applying the right approach to each level.

Individual counseling and growth
is a different process from marriage or family counseling

Group dynamics and generational therapy are a different process for each lineage or cultural tribe.

Collective dynamics and spiritual interaction through prayer healing and group recovery does make a difference

There are some things we can only change internally for ourselves

There are some injuries like mass genocide and war that take whole groups coming together to heal as a whole which cannot be done by one person deciding unilaterally.

The dynamics determine what combination of individuals and collective change is involved.

The types of prayer, from individual to intercessory, as well as deliverance and exorcism, all apply and effect different situations calling for different steps to correct and heal from past issues obstructing the spiritual process.


Sources: HEALING by Francis MacNutt www.christianhealingmin.org

 

[john doe 101]

The moral compass you are using to condemn religion created the moral standard you are trying to judge it with.

Idiot.

For example, where exactly does it say in the Bible that priests should be pedophiles? By the standards of the church, it is condemned, but it is tolerated because of politics.

But I can show you a Greek and Spartan society who routinely had sex with young boys. In fact, pretty much all of them did it.

No one condemned it to my knowledge.

Pedophilia was a systemic practice in the Catholic Church and it was accepted, not condemned by the Church. You're living in a fantasy world.