Where does Religion fit in?

[john doe 101]

It is spiritual corpses like john doe 101 who REFUSE to accept the hard truth that mankind is sinful, evil, and in need of a redeemer. And that redeemer is Yeshua Moshiach. Jesus the Messiah. but spiritual corpses like him are incapable of anything above their feeble, finite minds nor their hard hearts.

Yes, you are evil.

 

[john doe 101]

Dear john doe 101
While I and others can only agree with you religion gets abused to control coerce or oppress others by collective pressure,
you also demonstrate what I described above.

When you yourself seek to correct others, you cite their own words and stated principles to show where they conflict or fail to meet their own standards.

This is what I mean by religious beliefs principles and ways of expression used as languages or tools to communicate.

In order to make a point, it only makes sense to use words and ideas of that person or audience you are addressing

Yes, collective systems whether religious or political policies and process of govt are doomed to corruption and abuse.

These are still tools to address and correct problems.

The same hammer used to build can be used to destroy.

I have more faith and hope people like us use laws and religion for correction to make things better not worse!

Both church and state, religious and political authority are prone to abuse.

The point and purpose remains to use these for good, including correcting and preventing the bad.

I'm not correcting anybody. If people want to live like some dumb chimps, go for it. There are still plenty of pockets of religious nut jobs in this country. Just keep your wacky religious beliefs out of civilized peoples lives.

 

[GMCGeneral]

Yes, you are evil.

You consider the Truth to be evil.

 

[john doe 101]

Actually, Spiritual Revival, like those America and Europe experienced in the late 19th-early 20th Centuries is EXACTLY what we need. We need to return to the moral compass that is found in G-d's revealed Word and through the Holy Spirit. but Spiritual corpses like you don't want it because then you acknowledge you are incapable of running your own life, which you aren't

There isnt going to be any spiritual revival. Societies are becoming less religious, not more. And there is nothing you can do about it.

I am running my own life. I dont have voices in my head like yourself who think you're talking to god.

 

[GMCGeneral]

There isnt going to be any spiritual revival. Societies are becoming less religious, not more. And there is nothing you can do about it.

I am running my own life. I dont have voices in my head like yourself who think you're talking to god.

And that's why they are all circling the bowl. Countries only prosper where G-d is honored.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Religion serves no purpose but to corrupt morality for it's own purposes. You can have morality without religion. You should try it some time if you are so into "regulating ones own behavior" as you purport. But I think that was just a lie when you said that. You really dont want to regulate your own behavior. You want a church or a church state to regulate morality. Otherwise, why else would you be promoting (Christian) religion so hard?

Correct.

Man created religion to function as a form of government – to compel conformity and punish dissent, to ‘justify’ the actions of the state, and to control the people with fear and intimidation; religion and government were conjoined as one, facilitating all manner of crimes and atrocities over the millennia, continuing to do so to this day.

 

[john doe 101]

And that's why they are all circling the bowl. Countries only prosper where G-d is honored.

You're mentally ill. Get help.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Religion is comfort food. A security blanket. If something makes someone feel good, then let them have it.

Just don't try to put your pacifier in my mouth, and we will all get along fine.

 

[Clyde 154]

When the question came up in my email, where does Religion fit in? The skeptic was confused about how anything positive could come from religions that all were messed up. Many people replied that religion is different from faith. But didn't explain how to correct anything.

Here is my answer below.

I still believe we use religions as tools like languages to communicate.

(On Facebook I have friends arguing all people are supposed to adhere to the Original Hebrew laws scriptures and instructions. But again, I believe each tribe uses its own laws language or tongue to rebuke and guide its own members committed to those ways. I still believe Jesus as Universal Authority of Justice fulfills all these laws, but do not believe any group should waste time arguing to impose their beliefs on other groups which are held to account by their own laws respectively)

Agree or disagree?
===



As for what role does Christ and Christianity play in this process.

Christ is the central authority that connects all human conscience with the common drive toward justice and peace, but by free will or freedom which is built into our human nature and governed by natural laws.

We all respond to democratic process where our free will and consent is part of that process of making decisions in life and relationships

Jesus represents Universal Justice or Equal Justice Under Law. We all want this but not everyone believes we can have justice.

Retributive Justice is the negative force of Antichrist or abuse of authority that tries to control other people out of greed for power or punishment and revenge. This is what corrupts laws and govt to make war and oppress people by injustice abusing the name of justice to do wrong. Two wrongs don't make things right, but man's ways are selfish and become politically self serving.

Christ Jesus is the authority of Restorative Justice which allows forgiveness and correction of past sins wrongs and injustice so wounds of war and injured relations can be healed and restored in peace

This spirit of Justice and Peace which the Bible represents as Jesus and the Holy Spirit governs over all humanity, all tribes and nations of all languages and religions, to fulfill all laws under one universal authority.

So the point of humanity's process of spiritual, social and political/economic development is to grow toward achieving lasting peace and justice for all, as the Kingdom of God on earth. Heaven represents this divine peace on a collective scale that surpasses our limited human experiences and understanding.

The Bible is both symbolic and captures a real message that is universal for all humanity. We all need to make peace and receive this commitment to live by Justice and Peace in our own hearts and minds, so we may bring peace to our local and persondl relations, before we transform our institutions and nations to live in peace worldwide.

We start locally with ourselves, then heal our relations with each other, and this multiples to bring peace globally around the world when every person, every community and nation realizes the same love of truth justice and peace that sets us free from past suffering and strife.

Faith in Christ Jesus or Restorative Justice breaks the cycle of war and suffering, destruction and death from human problems, and allows us to restore good faith, health and healing to people and the planet.

This applies to people of any tribe, faith or no faith. We all want truth justice and peace. The Holy Trinity of God Jesus and Holy Spirit represents all humanity receiving this to achieve the Kingdom of God, within us and among us. That is the meaning and message in the Bible and what it means for Christ Jesus to save all humanity from past sins.

You are not arguing for Christ and Christianity.........you are attempting to accept "Pluralism" as a Christian Truth as instructed in the word of God. Pluralism: is the idea (notion, opinion) that all religious belief systems...i.e., philosophies are somehow equal in their objectives as declared by the God of Creation.

You declare that Christ instructed that "We all want truth and peace..........those of any tribe, faith or NO FAITH...." Is that what Jesus (God incarnate) instructed? Hardly. To keep it simple, Jesus declared, "Jesus saith unto him (Thomas), I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME (Jesus)." -- John 14:6

If any of the founders of this nation was to look upon this modern day culture and actually witness first hand how America has changed over the past hundred yrs. with its continued downward spiral into SOCIAL, MORAL, SPIRITUAL AND ETHICAL CHAOS....they would be "incredulous": not willing to believe or accept as reality.

Yet.....here are some "professing to be Christians" preaching about how "Pluralism" and "Multicultrism" is perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the Christ. Blame America for the worlds problems and declare how the culture develeoped in the US is somehow equal to all other world cultures.....sound familiar? Sound left wing?

Preaching "Pluralism and Multiculturism" actually has an effect on America and its culture. It actually "denegrates" American Civilization as being inferior to other world cutlures. Yet........one must ask the question? If America is so inferior or equal to all other world cultures...........why is the United States of America the most sought after immigration destination in the known civilized world? Why would anyone risk life and property to miragte to the US.....even to the point of breaking the standing law reguarding the immigration process?

True Christianity is not about "FEELINGS", but TRUTH as instructed by the God of Creation. Its truth that sets one free, not blind acceptance or appeasement. The very mission of Christ Jesus was to deliver the TRUTH. "Pilate therefore said unto Him (Jesus), Art thou a King then? Jesus answered, thou sayeth that I AM a King. TO THIS END WAS I BORN, AND FOR THIS CAUSE I CAME INTO THE WORLD, THAT I SHOULD BEAR WITNESS UNTO THE TRUTH. EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HEARTH MY VOICE." -- John 18:37

It is the voice of Christ Jesus that constitutes truth.........not Budda, not Muhammad, not John Smith, not Allah, not Hinduism....etc., there is but,, "One Body, and One Spirit, EVEN AS YOU ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE OF YOUR CALLING, One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism........One God and Father of all......who is above all." -- Eph. 4:4-6

 

[Blackrook]

I believe in God because I see the way people who don't believe in him behave, say, and believe. I don't want to be like them.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

You are not arguing for Christ and Christianity.........you are attempting to accept "Pluralism" as a Christian Truth as instructed in the word of God. Pluralism: is the idea (notion, opinion) that all religious belief systems...i.e., philosophies are somehow equal in their objectives as declared by the God of Creation.

You declare that Christ instructed that "We all want truth and peace..........those of any tribe, faith or NO FAITH...." Is that what Jesus (God incarnate) instructed? Hardly. To keep it simple, Jesus declared, "Jesus saith unto him (Thomas), I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME (Jesus)." -- John 14:6

If any of the founders of this nation was to look upon this modern day culture and actually witness first hand how America has changed over the past hundred yrs. with its continued downward spiral into SOCIAL, MORAL, SPIRITUAL AND ETHICAL CHAOS....they would be "incredulous": not willing to believe or accept as reality.

Yet.....here are some "professing to be Christians" preaching about how "Pluralism" and "Multicultrism" is perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the Christ. Blame America for the worlds problems and declare how the culture develeoped in the US is somehow equal to all other world cultures.....sound familiar? Sound left wing?

Preaching "Pluralism and Multiculturism" actually has an effect on America and its culture. It actually "denegrates" American Civilization as being inferior to other world cutlures. Yet........one must ask the question? If America is so inferior or equal to all other world cultures...........why is the United States of America the most sought after immigration destination in the known civilized world? Why would anyone risk life and property to miragte to the US.....even to the point of breaking the standing law reguarding the immigration process?

True Christianity is not about "FEELINGS", but TRUTH as instructed by the God of Creation. Its truth that sets one free, not blind acceptance or appeasement. The very mission of Christ Jesus was to deliver the TRUTH. "Pilate therefore said unto Him (Jesus), Art thou a King then? Jesus answered, thou sayeth that I AM a King. TO THIS END WAS I BORN, AND FOR THIS CAUSE I CAME INTO THE WORLD, THAT I SHOULD BEAR WITNESS UNTO THE TRUTH. EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HEARTH MY VOICE." -- John 18:37

It is the voice of Christ Jesus that constitutes truth.........not Budda, not Muhammad, not John Smith, not Allah, not Hinduism....etc., there is but,, "One Body, and One Spirit, EVEN AS YOU ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE OF YOUR CALLING, One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism........One God and Father of all......who is above all." -- Eph. 4:4-6

This is a primitive and truly “uncivil” religious view in this day and age. It is your right to believe any nonsense you want to, of course, but putting matters this way puts you on the wrong side of history. Better to stand with more universal “natural & human rights” declarations that urge religious toleration, and enumerate many more positive and useful aspirations, such as the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights.” Does either the Old or New Testament even specifically outlaw human slavery, or consider it a violation of “inalienable” Natural Right?

I have great respect for human science and technology, for the centuries of national, social and political struggles that allowed us to claw our way up from the “Law of the Jungle” to today. There has been genocide and backsliding along the way — of course — and we must try to make sure it never re-occurs. The effort to build and develop good and sustainable free societies with modern standards of living shared by all is part of a modern dream that old Christians could barely imagine, instead perhaps dreaming of a “City of God” … on Earth or in Heaven.

There are no guarantees that even natural human rights widely recognized (by enlightened reason) as “inalienable” … will long survive. That even human life will survive forever. The Enlightened republican system that the Founding Fathers created and which was subsequently improved and extended with the abolition of slavery, just like the economic system that Adam Smith described and since has developed into high tech, high finance semi-oligarchical capitalism — these may also not survive. Everything changes. That is “a law of nature” too. But we live or die in the present. I would argue we owe it to ourselves and our progeny to fight for a future that allows the whole human race to flourish.

To turn back, to literally believe “biblical” Jewish or Christian religion, to abandon the separation of State and Church, to give preference or privilege to one religion or tribal mythology over all others, to reject out of hand different religions, philosophies, art and culture, even when they obviously have things to offer and are in any case inescapable parts of global human heritage — this would be equivalent to abandoning “Common Sense” altogether.

It seems to me that there is a rather acute shortage of “Common Sense” and “Reason” today — especially among many far-right U.S. evangelicals who got fooled into believing that a billionaire NYC conman, “election denier,” and megalomaniac … was sent by God to “Save America.”

 

[Clyde 154]

This is a primitive and truly “uncivil” religious view in this day and age. It is your right to believe any nonsense you want to, of course, but putting matters this way puts you on the wrong side of history. Better to stand with more universal “natural & human rights” declarations that urge religious toleration, and enumerate many more positive and useful aspirations, such as the “Universal Declaration of Human Rights.” Does either the Old or New Testament even specifically outlaw human slavery, or consider it a violation of “inalienable” Natural Right?

I have great respect for human science and technology, for the centuries of national, social and political struggles that allowed us to claw our way up from the “Law of the Jungle” to today. There has been genocide and backsliding along the way — of course — and we must try to make sure it never re-occurs. The effort to build and develop good and sustainable free societies with modern standards of living shared by all is part of a modern dream that old Christians could barely imagine, instead perhaps dreaming of a “City of God” … on Earth or in Heaven.

There are no guarantees that even natural human rights widely recognized (by enlightened reason) as “inalienable” … will long survive. That even human life will survive forever. The Enlightened republican system that the Founding Fathers created and which was subsequently improved and extended with the abolition of slavery, just like the economic system that Adam Smith described and since has developed into high tech, high finance semi-oligarchical capitalism — these may also not survive. Everything changes. That is “a law of nature” too. But we live or die in the present. I would argue we owe it to ourselves and our progeny to fight for a future that allows the whole human race to flourish.

To turn back, to literally believe “biblical” Jewish or Christian religion, to abandon the separation of State and Church, to give preference or privilege to one religion or tribal mythology over all others, to reject out of hand different religions, philosophies, art and culture, even when they obviously have things to offer and are in any case inescapable parts of global human heritage — this would be equivalent to abandoning “Common Sense” altogether.

It seems to me that there is a rather acute shortage of “Common Sense” and “Reason” today — especially among many far-right U.S. evangelicals who got fooled into believing that a billionaire NYC conman, “election denier,” and megalomaniac … was sent by God to “Save America.”

You either accept the words of God......or you don't and you call the God of creation....a liar and found guilty of blaspheming against the one that inspired the word of God, the Holy Spirit of truth. There is one sin that cannot be forgiven.....the sin that you refuse to believe is a sin and consistently commit with premeditation.....because you refuse to accept God's word.

This day an age? As if "truth" evolves with society? That's the problem........society thinks that you simply choose a faith and God will comply with socieities idea of what constitutes truth and morality. That is exactly what is meant by "moral relativism". Truth does not nor cannot "evolve"........what was true 2000 years ago is true today. Its God's word that establishes moral truth not socieity (John 17:17).....there is a command to be "sanctified" in God's Word. Do you comprehend SANCTIFIED? Totally devoted. You are suggesting that truth is decided by soceity.....each society having its own definition of morality. Since there are different socieities and different sub cultures there can be no truthful or correct view of morality. How do you calibrate truth? You cannot, there is no standard to discren false doctrine from righteous doctrine.

The Words of Jesus, inspired to be recorded in scripture will be the judge. Besides being the judge.......those words are for establishing righteous doctrine. "All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness........that the man of God may be complete, equiped for every good work." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17

There is one truth as far as faith goes.......God's truth, and its defined in absolute terms not terms of relativism. There is only path that leads to the God of Creation.......Jesus Christ. (John 14:6).......singular truth, there are no other options. Its truth that sets one free not moral relativism. (John 8:31-59).

Its Jesus that holds the worlds together (Col. 1:16-17). Its Jesus that has absolute authority that came from God (Matthew 28:18). Thus, its the Words of Jesus that will be your final judge.........regardless of what society may or may not think. "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words; has one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, the same will judge him on that day (Judgment)" -- John 12:48

When hades (the realm of the dead awaiting final judgment) gives up its dead those quick (alive) and those (historically deceased), the Dead, will be juged by the BOOKS (books as in plural....not society, but judged by the books). Those Books are......the record of the Bible (the words inspired by the Holy Spirit of truth....are the words of Jesus)...........and your life...i.e., the Book of Life will be compared against the words of Jesus found in THE BOOKS (The Holy Scriptures). -- Rev. 20:13-14

Of course you will not refute this.....because there is no refutation of the truth, truth is absolute. So........being the quint esstinal smart person.......you will feign laughter. Laughter often masks anger. Psychology 101 Has the truth....hurted your little feelings? Ain't the 1st amendment a grand thing? The truth can be spoken regardless of how anyone might dislike it or disagree with it.

 

[ding]

Religion has no place in a modern, 21st century society. And it appears most people agree with me. Secularism is growing while religious bodies are losing members. And they arent coming back. The world will be a better place once religion is completely removed from it.

William James said, "When all is said and done, we are in the end absolutely dependent on the universe; and into sacrifices and surrenders of some sort, deliberately looked at and accepted, we are drawn and pressed as into our only permanent positions of repose. Now in those states of mind which fall short of religion, the surrender is submitted to as an imposition of necessity, and the sacrifice is undergone at the very best without complaint. In the religious life, on the contrary, surrender and sacrifice are positively espoused: even unnecessary givings-up are added in order that the happiness may increase. Religion thus makes easy and felicitous what in any case is necessary; and if it be the only agency that can accomplish this result, its vital importance as a human faculty stands vindicated beyond dispute. It becomes an essential organ of our life, performing a function which no other portion of our nature can so successfully fulfill."

I tend to agree with him and not you for the above reasons.

 

[ding]

Religion serves no purpose but to corrupt morality for it's own purposes. You can have morality without religion. You should try it some time if you are so into "regulating ones own behavior" as you purport. But I think that was just a lie when you said that. You really dont want to regulate your own behavior. You want a church or a church state to regulate morality. Otherwise, why else would you be promoting (Christian) religion so hard?

Religion provides answers to the origin questions. Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Religion teaches that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit. Religion serves to bind the community together. Religion inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion serves to create traditions. Religion brings order to our lives. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill. Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork. Religion gave us incredible music. Religion gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII.

 

[ding]

mankind is sinful, evil…

I don’t dispute the need for a Redeemer, but wasn’t everything God created good?

 

[ding]

Yes, you are evil.

Evil isn’t extant. It only exists as the absence of good. Evil is like darkness or cold. They are the negation of what does exist. Darkness is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat and evil is the absence of good.

 

[Blaster]

Religion has no place in a modern, 21st century society. And it appears most people agree with me. Secularism is growing while religious bodies are losing members. And they arent coming back. The world will be a better place once religion is completely removed from it.

Increased violence in society is because people have turned away from Christ's teachings. We are a better society when we love our neighbor as ourself.

 

[emilynghiem]

You are not arguing for Christ and Christianity.........you are attempting to accept "Pluralism" as a Christian Truth as instructed in the word of God. Pluralism: is the idea (notion, opinion) that all religious belief systems...i.e., philosophies are somehow equal in their objectives as declared by the God of Creation.

You declare that Christ instructed that "We all want truth and peace..........those of any tribe, faith or NO FAITH...." Is that what Jesus (God incarnate) instructed? Hardly. To keep it simple, Jesus declared, "Jesus saith unto him (Thomas), I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME (Jesus)." -- John 14:6

If any of the founders of this nation was to look upon this modern day culture and actually witness first hand how America has changed over the past hundred yrs. with its continued downward spiral into SOCIAL, MORAL, SPIRITUAL AND ETHICAL CHAOS....they would be "incredulous": not willing to believe or accept as reality.

Yet.....here are some "professing to be Christians" preaching about how "Pluralism" and "Multicultrism" is perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the Christ. Blame America for the worlds problems and declare how the culture develeoped in the US is somehow equal to all other world cultures.....sound familiar? Sound left wing?

Preaching "Pluralism and Multiculturism" actually has an effect on America and its culture. It actually "denegrates" American Civilization as being inferior to other world cutlures. Yet........one must ask the question? If America is so inferior or equal to all other world cultures...........why is the United States of America the most sought after immigration destination in the known civilized world? Why would anyone risk life and property to miragte to the US.....even to the point of breaking the standing law reguarding the immigration process?

True Christianity is not about "FEELINGS", but TRUTH as instructed by the God of Creation. Its truth that sets one free, not blind acceptance or appeasement. The very mission of Christ Jesus was to deliver the TRUTH. "Pilate therefore said unto Him (Jesus), Art thou a King then? Jesus answered, thou sayeth that I AM a King. TO THIS END WAS I BORN, AND FOR THIS CAUSE I CAME INTO THE WORLD, THAT I SHOULD BEAR WITNESS UNTO THE TRUTH. EVERYONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HEARTH MY VOICE." -- John 18:37

It is the voice of Christ Jesus that constitutes intruth.........not Budda, not Muhammad, not John Smith, not Allah, not Hinduism....etc., there is but,, "One Body, and One Spirit, EVEN AS YOU ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE OF YOUR CALLING, One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism........One God and Father of all......who is above all." -- Eph. 4:4-6

Nope Clyde 154 Not my intent or meaning but sorry I wasnt clear enough.

It's more like 3 levels:
A. Different religions are like local state laws where some laws are good some bad and each state has to amend their own
B. Constitutional laws are central and govern all states that each have their own jurisdiction as well. Not the same not equal but people have responsibility for their own relations and representation with govt.
C. Then there are natural laws of democratic process that govern A B and all people collectively and humanity in general.

The spirit of Justice governs all three levels. So Jesus as Justice is still unique and central to all. But we still have diversity and relativity in jurisdiction over different audiences and groups in order for all people to learn self governance by their own tribe and local language for the laws.