When was the last time you changed your mind about something politically important and admitted it?

[Edgetho]

I didn’t say it was humility; it’s simply reality. I believe the human race is far closer to the end of its existence than its birth.
<good stuff I agree with snipped>

I respectfully disagree. I believe the Human Race will be around for another several Billion years..... 4 or 5 anyway. Unless we're snuffed out by a Superior Alien Civilization. A Million Years from now.

That's possible. At least 250 BILLION Stars in our Galaxy and at least 500 BILLION Galaxies.

I'd say the odds are good there's another civilization or two out there. Maybe three or four.....

 

[Anathema]

I respectfully disagree. I believe the Human Race will be around for another several Billion years..... 4 or 5 anyway. Unless we're snuffed out by a Superior Alien Civilization. A Million Years from now.

That's possible. At least 250 BILLION Stars in our Galaxy and at least 500 BILLION Galaxies.

I'd say the odds are good there's another civilization or two out there. Maybe three or four.....

All very possible statements.

I tend to disagree with you. In fact I hope that I’m right and you’re wrong. This planet deserves better than humanity.

 

[buttercup]

Are you perfect?

Ideologically, yes.

Ideology covers a lot of different ideas. So if you believe you're ideologically perfect and always have been...again, that gets back to what I said in my previous post, you think everything you have ever believed has been the objective truth, and your perceptions or understanding on all ideas are always 100% correct. And I don't know how to say this diplomatically, but I'll put it this way....I think that's a good example of how pride blinds people. That's how a lot of teenagers think. They think they know everything and they're right about everything, but then 20 or 30 years go by and in hindsight they realize they were wrong about so many things that they were once 100% convinced they were right about.

But I don't want to give you a hard time about this, so we can agree to disagree with your idea that we don't need to grow, learn or be introspective.

 

[Anathema]

But I don't want to give you a hard time about this, so we can agree to disagree with your idea that we don't need to grow, learn or be introspective.

Yes we can agree to disagree. I’m not here to change your mind and you wouldn’t change mine; so best to just disagree and move on.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Never. I was taught very well from my youth that compromise and changed viewpoints were the hallmarks of someone who never really believed in anything to begin with.

If you learn nothing new, you're dying.

 

[Correll]

Yes. If MAGA is right about something, I want to know. That’s the difference. I don’t need a side to win. I want the truth to win, and if something I believe can’t survive honest confrontation, then I don’t want it. I’ll throw it out and start again.

Let's turn your question around. Are you open to the possibility that MAGA might be wrong about some of this? And I don’t mean a surface-level acknowledgment. I mean truly open, rnough to change, enough to let go of something cherished, enough to disappoint your team or your family or your sense of certainty for the sake of something closer to the truth?

THe point is to serve the interests of Americans and America.

Policies, ideologies, are tools to be used in the pursuit of that goal.

So sure, if the results of a policy don't match what was wanted, then dealing with that reality is needed.


YOur odd assumption that that is not the case, is odd.


Trump, MAGA, is the base of the GOP rejecting the failed policy of Free Trade and the acceptance of a defacto open border. The Country Club republicans in charge of the party has been pushing that for decades despite the policies not delivering the promised results.


We are a fairly new movement with fresh ideas. It is odd that you look at US and question our ability to adjust.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Around 90% of those taken in by ICE have NO CRIMINAL RECORD.

That means 90% of their resources are going after non-criminals, and only 10% towards getting the dangerous criminals off the street.

Are we safer deporting farm workers, or murderers and rapists?

You know all this HOW?

 

[Correll]

You’re proving the point.

You say you're not well-versed in the pro-slavery arguments, but that’s exactly the problem. People who believed in it back then didn’t walk around thinking “we’re the villains.” They thought they were defending order, tradition, faith, the family structure; the same pillars people still invoke today, just under new topics.

No, it proves that I am not well read on the pro-slavery arguments. YOu don't get to just assert that htey are as you claim.

...



Gay marriage was opposed by both parties for decades using appeals to morality, family values, and religious certainty. It’s now legal, and the sky didn’t fall.
...

THAT'S a more recent and better example.


Actually, with the breakdown of the family and declining birthrates, the sky is falling.

Not one western nation has a birthrate that is replacement level. EVERYONE, is dying or being absorbed by more fertile and less progressive populations.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

All very possible statements.

I tend to disagree with you. In fact I hope that I’m right and you’re wrong. This planet deserves better than humanity.

I've come to view us as a cancer and a parasite. But I know our future. God will fix us. Those He can't fix us, we won't be here. Again, you have to be open to CHANGE. You have to learn REPENTANCE

 

[Correll]

That’s a fair question, but “fine” isn’t the same as true, or whole, or brave. Plenty of people look in the mirror and see “fine” because they’re only looking for confirmation, not clarity. The deeper question isn’t "what do you see that’s fine?" It’s what are you afraid to look at? What parts of your beliefs or identity are off-limits to scrutiny? We all have shadows we’ve convinced ourselves are just “corners of the room.” What if the part you refuse to question is the part that’s actually shaping the rest?

This isn’t about being an “ignorant boob.” It’s about whether you’ve ever risked the kind of self-interrogation that leaves you different, even if just a little, on the other side. Most people don’t do that. They mistake consistency for integrity and call it strength, but real introspection? It leaves stretch marks.

Thanks for dismissing my entire internal existence and personal journey.

 

[toobfreak]

We don’t need to grow. We learned RIGHT and WRONG at the beginning so there’s nothing else to be learned.

Wow, that could be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Right and wrong are mere ideological theories--- over time, you learn which things apply to which and how. And over your life, situations and context changes and you continually encounter new things.

Just because one is taught right from wrong as a child does not mean that your every first impression is the right one, nor can never change no matter what new things you learn or what new facts come into the situation.

I spend most of my time continually reassessing my views and values and testing them against every new situation to see if they still hold true; that is how I build confidence and trust in my conclusions.

The one essential quality in life is growth. Growth is change. The minute you stop growing and changing is the minute you start dying.

 

[Foxfyre]

Hispanics are stupid?

Wow

That's what they think though. Just as they also swallow the assigned talking points hook line and sinker that the BBB benefits only the rich.

And no matter how much evidence we provide to convince them otherwise, they aren't going to change their mind/rhetoric about that.

Speaking of people so rigid they can't change what they think or believe.

 

[Anomalism]

THe point is to serve the interests of Americans and America.

Policies, ideologies, are tools to be used in the pursuit of that goal.

So sure, if the results of a policy don't match what was wanted, then dealing with that reality is needed.


YOur odd assumption that that is not the case, is odd.


Trump, MAGA, is the base of the GOP rejecting the failed policy of Free Trade and the acceptance of a defacto open border. The Country Club republicans in charge of the party has been pushing that for decades despite the policies not delivering the promised results.


We are a fairly new movement with fresh ideas. It is odd that you look at US and question our ability to adjust.

This response is telling. You've softened, pivoted to pragmatism, and you're now trying to reframe MAGA as a flexible, problem-solving tool rather than a rigid ideology. That’s progress. It means you felt the sting of my moral challenge and needed to diffuse it by changing the frame.

That’s actually encouraging to hear, that you’re willing to adjust when reality doesn’t match intention. We need more of that on all sides, but notice I didn’t ask about policies. I asked about beliefs, about moral conviction, about whether you're open to the possibility that some of the cultural narratives inside the movement, not just its economic ideas, might be flawed.

When you shifted to trade and immigration, you bypassed the part about whether you'd let go of something personally cherished, something emotionally important, if it turned out to be untrue. This isn't just about what works. It's about what warps us without us realizing it. If a policy fails, yes, a good movement adapts, but what about when an idea fails, an identity, a cultural myth, a moral assumption?

Would you still adjust, then, or is it only policies that are negotiable, while the story of “who we are” must remain untouched? That's where real growth happens . Not just when you change a policy, but when you're willing to change your mind. Even if it costs you pride. Even if it distances you from your tribe. That’s all I’m asking. Can the movement evolve morally, or only tactically?

 

[Correll]

This response is telling. You've softened, pivoted to pragmatism, and you're now trying to reframe MAGA as a flexible, problem-solving tool rather than a rigid ideology. That’s progress. It means you felt the sting of my moral challenge and needed to diffuse it by changing the frame.

I've done none of that.

That’s actually encouraging to hear, that you’re willing to adjust when reality doesn’t match intention. We need more of that on all sides, but notice I didn’t ask about policies. I asked about beliefs, about moral conviction, about whether you're open to the possibility that some of the cultural narratives inside the movement, not just its economic ideas, might be flawed.

The more vague the discussion is, the easier it is for you to dismiss my points.

When you shifted to trade and immigration, you bypassed the part about whether you'd let go of something personally cherished, something emotionally important, if it turned out to be untrue. This isn't just about what works. It's about what warps us without us realizing it. If a policy fails, yes, a good movement adapts, but what about when an idea fails, an identity, a cultural myth, a moral assumption?

Like what? My Patriotism? My belief in family? How would my patriotism fail? How would my love of family fail?

Would you still adjust, then, or is it only policies that are negotiable, while the story of “who we are” must remain untouched? That's where real growth happens . Not just when you change a policy, but when you're willing to change your mind. Even if it costs you pride. Even if it distances you from your tribe. That’s all I’m asking. Can the movement evolve morally, or only tactically?

My Tribe? What is your tribe?

For my entire life, my "tribe" has been under attack. All other tribes are celebrated.


That is not about me having to adjust, that is about other people being hostile to me and wanting to destroy me.

 

[Anomalism]

Thanks for dismissing my entire internal existence and personal journey.

It sounds like I struck a nerve, not by insulting, but by pressing on the gap between self-perception and honest transformation.

It wasn't my intent to dismiss you. This conversation isn’t surface-level, and I’m not here to offer flattery disguised as respect.

You said something real: “What if most of what you see is fine?” and that’s fair, but I asked the harder question because I respect your intelligence too much not to.

You’re clearly someone who thinks, who has a story, who’s lived through enough to have convictions. That’s why I pushed, because sometimes what we call our “internal journey” is a journey within a fence, one that was built before we were old enough to question who put it there, so this isn’t about disrespect. It’s about asking if you've ever looked beyond the fence, Have you ever dared to? That’s not me dismissing you. That’s me saying I think you’re capable of more truth than comfort requires, and that’s the highest form of respect I know how to give.

 

[Correll]

It sounds like I struck a nerve, not by insulting, but by pressing on the gap between self-perception and honest transformation.

Nope. I just pointed out that you dismissed my response.

It wasn't my intent to dismiss you. This conversation isn’t surface-level, and I’m not here to offer flattery disguised as respect.

But you did. You just assume that I have not examined my self nor grown personally.

You said something real: “What if most of what you see is fine?” andd that’s fair, but I asked the harder question because I respect your intelligence too much not to.

You’re clearly someone who thinks, who has a story, who’s lived through enough to have convictions. That’s why I pushed, because sometimes what we call our “internal journey” is a journey within a fence, one that was built before we were old enough to question who put it there, so this isn’t about disrespect. It’s about asking if you've ever looked beyond the fence, Have you ever dared to? That’s not me dismissing you. That’s me saying I think you’re capable of more truth than comfort requires, and that’s the highest form of respect I know how to give.

My identity is pretty secure. I have had plenty of trials and tribulations and I am secure in myself at this point.

My questioning these days is more about the wider world and how it will do. I am fine. I worry about the outside world.

 

[ColonelAngus]

That's what they think though. Just as they also swallow the assigned talking points hook line and sinker that the BBB benefits only the rich.

And no matter how much evidence we provide to convince them otherwise, they aren't going to change their mind/rhetoric about that.

Speaking of people so rigid they can't change what they think or believe.

The “vax” is safe and effective.

Millions got COVID after taking the jab. It is astonishing to me they still believed in it.

For politics, they still get jabbed. Brainwashed.

 

[Foxfyre]

The “vax” is safe and effective.

Millions got COVID after taking the jab. It is astonishing to me they still believed in it.

For politics, they still get jabbed. Brainwashed.

And yet people like me who talk with LOTS of healthcare professionals believe the vax has saved many many millions more people from serious illness, long lasting or permanent side effects or death than the occasional person who may have had a disastrous side effect. I think it is just as wrong to scare people into not getting the jab as it is wrong to force people to get it.

Put as good information out there as is available and let people decide for themselves.

But it is very difficult to change people's thinking/beliefs on that too once they've take an intractable position.

 

[Anomalism]

And yet people like me who talk with LOTS of healthcare professionals believe the vax has saved many many millions more people from serious illness, long lasting or permanent side effects or death than the occasional person who may have had a disastrous side effect. I think it is just as wrong to scare people into not getting the jab as it is wrong to force people to get it.

Put as good information out there as is available and let people decide for themselves.

But it is very difficult to change people's thinking/beliefs on that too once they've take an intractable position

At some point in this thread I got the feeling you felt attacked too. If you don't already, you should know that same as Correll, my inquiry is rooted in respect for your intelligence.

 

[Edgetho]

All very possible statements.

I tend to disagree with you. In fact I hope that I’m right and you’re wrong. This planet deserves better than humanity.

That's a rather nihilist sentiment.

Look at where we were 100 Years ago compared to today. Think about us 1,000 years. The Dark Ages were called that for a reason. 2,000 Years ago, Rome had more slaves in the City than citizens. Before then, Greece, Persia, Egypt......

I'd say we've come a long way. A real long way.

The problem you're having, along with several Billion others, is you let The Perfect be the enemy of The Good.

We are Human, therefore we are imperfect.

dimocrap scum keep trying to create a Utopian Earth, a Utopian Society........ With them in charge, of course. How else can it succeed? Without the wise and highly moral (they are, just ask them) guidance of the scummiest scumbags in Human History, themselves, we are bound to fail.

I believe Western Society is inherently good. dimocraps, OTOH, are scum.

With that in mind, we can create a GOOD society,. Not perfect. We will never be perfect. But we can be good. And we can continue on 'Good' until we become so Good....... Give it a couple Billion years, we;ll get there