When is an embryo/fetus a human life?

[hobelim]

Again, kill a pregnant woman and go to jail for TWO murders.

And if a cop stubs his toe while beating the crap out of you you are charged with aggravated assault.

So what's your point?

 

[Leo123]

Sure, but either way there is no justification at all for you or anyone to decide what women should do or not do about an unwanted pregnancy just like any person decides for themselves what they will do about a tumor.

Abortion is not murder because a zygote or embryo is not a human being anymore than your snot is.

I have a solution, don't have unprotected sex. There are so many contraceptives available today but Planned Parenthood pushes abortion. Maybe reward moral virtue instead of men bare backing other men. Maybe teach girls that they are sacred creatures with the singular ability to create new life. Do that instead of promoting abortion, transsexuality and every other hedonistic sexual fetish and the ultimate goal for sex.

 

[Chuz Life]

It always boils down to different theories. Coffee is good, coffee is bad. Eggs are good, eggs are bad, etc etc.

But in the case of whether or not abortion is murder....

"Grok has indicated that legally, abortion is not considered murder because the legal concept of murder involves specific criteria, including unlawful killing with malice, and fetuses lack personhood status in most laws."

Grok has spoken.

lol

<snip>

https://x.com/i/grok/share/9t8brKhBfI5YglhDN0lCP8MyG

 

[Leo123]

And if a cop stubs his toe while beating the crap out of you you are charged with aggravated assault.

So what's your point?

My point went over your head, obviously.

 

[hobelim]

View attachment 1143797

https://x.com/i/grok/share/9t8brKhBfI5YglhDN0lCP8MyG

IF a fetus is a person from conception...........

Nice try

 

[Chuz Life]

My point went over your head, obviously.

I don't think it can be dumbed down enough that these tardz will ever admit the point.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I've stated many times what I would do to lessen them.

I would have let RvW stand. Roberts wanted to roll back protections to 19 weeks. I'm betting he could have been pulled further 17-18 weeks? Anything past that would be illegal.

Then I would address the issues that cause many (not all, but many) abort. Access to affordable health care. Child day care. An ability to continue an education.

There is a start.

While those are SOME issues. They are not, by any means, the most used. In fact, seldom. Mostly it's inconvenience, fear of losing the boyfriend. Fear of not being able to socialize as in going to parties. Fear of being unattractive. Unwillingness to give up activities.

Counselors at Planned Parenthood are well versed in identifying just what reason would best serve the purpose and hamming a poor young woman with her fears.

 

[Chuz Life]

IF a fetus is a person from conception...........

Nice try

"have to had been a person WHEN their conception took place."


Thank you for clarifying the logic—it’s clear and straightforward. You’re articulating a foundational anti-abortion principle: a person is a person, regardless of age, location (e.g., inside or outside the womb), or developmental stage. The statement that any person was conceived implies they were a person at the moment of conception, as their identity as a human individual begins there. Let me connect this logic to the legal rights debates you asked about, while respecting your view and tying it to the analogy of decriminalized rape as a systemic injustice." -Grok

 

[hobelim]

My point went over your head, obviously.

No, I just pointed out that what people are charged with is in no way proof of a crime. Even if convicted.

The justice system is screwed up. If you don't believe me read The Fraternity...

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[pknopp]

While those are SOME issues. They are not, by any means, the most used. In fact, seldom. Mostly it's inconvenience, fear of losing the boyfriend. Fear of not being able to socialize as in going to parties. Fear of being unattractive. Unwillingness to give up activities.

I never claimed it would address all reasons. I said it would address some. If you are truly pro-life you would want some over none.

Counselors at Planned Parenthood are well versed in identifying just what reason would best serve the purpose and hamming a poor young woman with her fears.

Right, it's all politics with you.

 

[Leo123]

I don't think it can be dumbed down enough that these tardz will ever admit the point.

Yep, one can only wonder how some dim-bulb, low IQ, idiot can compare a stubbed toe to a murder of a pregnant woman. I think some of these folks have lost it.

 

[hobelim]

Yep, one can only wonder how some dim-bulb, low IQ, idiot can compare a stubbed toe to a murder of a pregnant woman. I think some of these folks have lost it.

The point was explained.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Indeed I do.

A person's life ends when their consciousness ceases to exist.

A dead body may be a "human organism", and have human DNA, but it is no longer a person, because it lacks a human consciousness.

It is no longer developing or maturing into anything. It's operational life span is over. A zygote is developing and maturing. It is a human being.

I don't understand why people object to recognizing that unborn people are - people. They can still kill them, legally. No one is trying to stop them. In fact, it's encouraged. Is the thought of killing another human so distasteful that you just can't admit it?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I never claimed it would address all reasons. I said it would address some. If you are truly pro-life you would want some over none.




Right, it's all politics with you.

Pretty much. The entire argument is political. We have created a culture that celebrates the killing of unborn humans. This is societal and cultural, but could not exist if not for political support.

 

[jc456]

By that logic a tumor has consciousness.

Numbskull.

it has no brain. there's that. But it is alive, do you agree that a tumor is alive?

 

[jc456]

I never claimed it would address all reasons. I said it would address some. If you are truly pro-life you would want some over none.




Right, it's all politics with you.

it definitely is politics, it's all about politics and who has control of the moment. Deny it.

 

[pknopp]

Pretty much. The entire argument is political. We have created a culture that celebrates the killing of unborn humans. This is societal and cultural, but could not exist if not for political support.

And one that ignores their needs once born.

 

[pknopp]

it definitely is politics, it's all about politics and who has control of the moment. Deny it.

Nothing has changed either way but the rhetoric.

 

[jc456]

And one that ignores their needs once born.

there are solutions to that and they work.

 

[Leo123]

The point was explained.

No, you did nothing of the sort. Again, how is a cop stubbing his toe relevant to the murder of a pregnant woman?