Zone1 What's the nuttiest allegedly Christian religion on the Planet?

[notmyfault2020]

Fundamentalist Later Day Saints. The polygamist cult. Every aspect of their religion is geared toward enslaving women and girls.

yeh, that's bad. I've read stories about this, about women who escaped after being essentially forced to marry some old geizer and have something like 10 kids w/ him

sick

 

[notmyfault2020]

Independent Missionary Baptist is the group I grew up in all other sects seem to shun us and some along with a lot non Christian groups consider us the enemy. So it might be us. '' The only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ all other paths lead to hell''

Are you saying you disagree w/ that last quoted part?

 

[notmyfault2020]

I'm not a Christian but it seems to me all the Christian sects are equally sane (or equally nutty if you prefer). They all focus on different interpretations of scripture which, to my non-Christian mind, and are all equally valid.

If someone's interpretation is .. i dunno.. say from the devil

well, there u go.. so all interpretations can never be equal.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Mormonism.

Their leader, Joseph Smith, looking into a hat at a magic rock and saw revelations that somehow, some way, God didn't get around to letting us know until Joseph Smith. Then Joseph got to creep on a bunch of teenage girls for a long time before attempting to "translate" the Book of Abraham, which he said was, yeah. lost writings of Abraham. This was in the mid-1800s when there was no internet and Egyptian scholars were light on the ground in mid-America. Well, when the hieroglyphics were finally translated accurately, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Abraham. It was a typical Egyptian funeral document.

Mormons will tell you that this is okay; you have to interpret the book "spiritually" or some such. Uh huh. In other Biblical contexts it would mean Joe Smith is entirely discredited.

This is not to mention the fact that they believe Satan and Jesus are spirit-brothers (really), and that every good Mormon will go on to inhabit their own planet (really) populated with their wives and children. Oh, and that God is also married. Basically just the fevered dreams of Joseph Smith, failed prophet.

Mormons are generally good-hearted people who have been terribly snowballed. I will now be attacked by Mormons for being hateful. But I am not hateful. I do, however, tell the truth in all I say above.

yeh, I knew some of what you are saying here... not the part about Egypt and etc.. interesting.

But Protestants of all stripes have to content with the historical fact that the first Chritian Church was indeed the Catholic Church. Ancient writings from the 2nd century and probably even b4 show such beliefs as: The Eucharist (Real Presence), sacramental confession, infant baptism and the list goes on

The Greek word Catholic ("universal") was used at least by the year 107 AD

That's as far back as records go. But that's very far back!

 

[occupied]

yeh, that's bad. I've read stories about this, about women who escaped after being essentially forced to marry some old geizer and have something like 10 kids w/ him

sick

It's even sicker than that. The current cult leader has as many as twenty "wives" some of whom he "married" as young as nine. He's going to jail but the cult is still there.

 

[alang1216]

If someone's interpretation is .. i dunno.. say from the devil

well, there u go.. so all interpretations can never be equal.

Which interpretation is NOT from the devil and how do you know?

 

[lg325]

Are you saying you disagree w/ that last quoted part?

No, It is what we believe and live by. And that is what seems to upset all the others. That and JKV scripture is the word of God and we use it to live our lives. And we can as individuals pray to God and we can receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[notmyfault2020]

There is only "ONE" New Testament Church. (Eph. 4:5-6) All others deal in False Doctrines. Satan has no better weapon than deception and a lying tongue.....when the faith is divided, the more division the more power is given to the god of this world which is satan (2 Cor. 4:4) There scriptures teach there would be many false doctrines instructed by the traditions of men rather than instruction from the Holy Spirit of Truth which inspired the scriptures. (2 Tim. 4:3-4) You can witness this in all the false denominations today as they teach only the things that people want to hear........ignoring that which they think might offend the world.

There are "thousands" of denominations......each teaching a different doctrine, yet all claim to be following the Doctrine of Christ Jesus. Are all churches correct? All attempt to use a different name in order to distinguish themselves. If they all cannot be right.......is it possible to find that ONE TRUE CHRUCH?

The Bible tells us that God is not satisfied with conflicting doctrines as God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33)

The Christ prayed that all those who would believe in Him be of one mind, one accord. (John 17:17-23). If the Lord prayed for it.......it must be possible. Unity can only be achived if there is a Standard to calibrate TRUTH. Unity is required if the "world is to believe........" Unity is possible if the Word of God is used to calibrate all doctrine.

"All scripture is (inspired).......breathed out by God, and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equiped for every good work." -- 2 Tim. 3:16-17

I had to stop here.

You are correct in all or most of what you say but I stopped here because you are now confronted w / the problem of WHO has the correct interpretation?

It is good to focus so much on Scripture but there is no guarantee a mere mortal will figure out EVERY single Scripture infallibly. That is one reason Christ founded a Church. Catholic priests spend 8 years educating themselves in theology, philosophy and a lot of other subjects so as to be able to answer questions on spiritual matters. Of course, the Church went off the rails in the 60s starting w/ Vatican II, which was full of heresy.. namely, I speak of: the belief (after V2) that all religions can save. Please. That just so blatantly contradicts what Jesus said, that HE is the way to Heaven and there is no other.

So anyway, I am happy that what you've said so far (I will now read the rest) is not against traditional Catholic teaching. It may somehow be against the post-Vatican II teachings (though I tend to think not)



Vatican II didn't destroy every last vestige of Catholicism (though Satan is working on it)

 

[JoeB131]

It occurs to me that you keep searching for reasons not to believe. How many reasons do you need?

Nope, I only had one.. my mother's funeral when that old hag said what she said.

The problem is, if you kept your superstitions in your churches, that would be fine. It's when you all come out and help the Plutocrats screw the rest of us because they've convinced you they are right with Jesus.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Which interpretation is NOT from the devil and how do you know?

Well, Jesus knew humans would ask these questions. You are not the first to ask it, by a long shot.

Answer:

You know because you have a trustworthy Church to guide you, meaning THE Church that Christ founded.

thanks to Luther, many people do not have that.. and then Vatican II essentially agreed w/ much that Luther said in his rebelliousness

So most people do not have the True Church in their lives. . so they get misled all the time and we all get exasperated with each other over the whole mess

 

[Meriweather]

The problem is

Perhaps you are seeing problems that do not exist.

 

[lg325]

No, It is what we believe and live by. And that is what seems to upset all the others. That and JKV scripture is the word of God and we use it to live our lives. And we can as individuals pray to God and we can receive the Holy Spirit.

That should be KJV ( Dyslexia makes things frustrating)

 

[onefour1]

Mormonism, hands down.

Golden Plates
Hebrews in Pre-Columbian America
Baptizing dead people
Magic Underwear
Plural Marriage (until God told them to stop)
Keeping black people as second class members (until God told them to stop)
Their prophets marrying teenage girls.

Mormonism.

Their leader, Joseph Smith, looking into a hat at a magic rock and saw revelations that somehow, some way, God didn't get around to letting us know until Joseph Smith. Then Joseph got to creep on a bunch of teenage girls for a long time before attempting to "translate" the Book of Abraham, which he said was, yeah. lost writings of Abraham. This was in the mid-1800s when there was no internet and Egyptian scholars were light on the ground in mid-America. Well, when the hieroglyphics were finally translated accurately, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Abraham. It was a typical Egyptian funeral document.

Mormons will tell you that this is okay; you have to interpret the book "spiritually" or some such. Uh huh. In other Biblical contexts it would mean Joe Smith is entirely discredited.

This is not to mention the fact that they believe Satan and Jesus are spirit-brothers (really), and that every good Mormon will go on to inhabit their own planet (really) populated with their wives and children. Oh, and that God is also married. Basically just the fevered dreams of Joseph Smith, failed prophet.

Mormons are generally good-hearted people who have been terribly snowballed. I will now be attacked by Mormons for being hateful. But I am not hateful. I do, however, tell the truth in all I say above.

In 1830 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints organized by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Because we used the Book of Mormon, many non members of the church have called us The Mormons. In response to the above two posts, I would like to present evidence to show that our beliefs are not so far out as the above two posters would like to make everyone think.

Golden Plates - Joseph Smith received revelation that there were golden plates buried in the Hill Cumorah in upstate NY. He was shown where they were buried by a ministering angel and recovered these golden plates which had writings upon them of some of the inhabitants of ancient America. Upon uncovering the plates, Joseph Smith was instructed to translate the writings on the plates which became what is known today as the Book of Mormon. It is historic fact that metal plates were used for record keeping. Here are many images of metal plates that have been discovered in our times - Ancient Writings on Golden or Metal Plates. Is it so incredible that there have been breakoffs from the house of Israel and that they were led to other parts of the world? Is it hard to believe that God would have these Israelites keep a record of their dealings with God and preserve these records for the future? An ancient profit who was among these people was the last to handle the records and he buried them in the Hill Cumorah before his death. Later in the earth 1800's this same prophet appeared as an angel to Joseph Smith and revealed the location of where the records were buried. Joseph Smith uncovered the records and by the power of God he translated them into the Book of Mormon. We do not have the actual golden plates today because God received them back unto Himself. But before He did he allowed several men to see, touch and examine the golden plates and we have their testimonies of this even today.

THE TESTIMONY OF THREE WITNESSES​

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

THE TESTIMONY OF EIGHT WITNESSES​

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

It was revealed unto the Prophet Joseph Smith that he was a direct descendant of the House of Israel and more particularly the tribe of Ephraim. We believe that the Book of Mormon is a fulfillment of the prophesy in Ezekiel 37 of the Stick of Joseph or Ephraim which will be joined into one hand in these last days.

Ezekiel 37:16-19
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

Here we believe the stick of Judah to be the Bible and the stick of Joseph or Ephraim to be the Book of Mormon. Finally, is not all this possible by the Lord God? Is this really to incredible that God could do such a thing?

Hebrews in Pre-Columbian America - Is it so hard to believe that the House of Israel would be scattered and then gathered from all the nations of the earth?

Amos 9:9
9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

God reestablished his covenant with Abraham, his son Isaac, and his grandson Jacob. The Lord changed Jacob’s name to Israel. Israel had 12 sons whose children became the 12 families or 12 tribes of Israel. Israel’s family eventually survived a famine by moving from the promised land to Egypt. There they multiplied and became a great nation. After many years Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt, and Joshua led them into the promised land. Eventually Israel divided into two nations—the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah.

The Lord warned the children of Israel that if they turned away from Him and worshipped idols, they would be removed from the land of their inheritance. Eventually they turned from God and were conquered and carried away from the promised land. Assyria conquered the northern kingdom of Israel in 721 B.C. They eventually became known as the 10 lost tribes. Later, the southern kingdom of Judah (or the Jews) were conquered and scattered by Babylon about 587 B.C. About 70 years later, many of the Jews began to return to the land of Israel, where they remained as a nation for many generations. In A.D. 70 and again in A.D. 135, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jews among all nations. Remarkably, many of the Jews maintained their identity as a people. The lost tribes, however, remained scattered throughout the world; most of them do not know that they are descendants of Israel.

So why is it so difficult to believe that some were scattered to the Americas? Is it really that unbelievable?

- To Be Continued

 

[onefour1]

Baptizing Dead People - The Apostle Paul, in defense of the doctrine of the resurrection, used the doctrine of baptism for the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:29
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

So obviously this teaching was not made up by Mormons. After Jesus died but before his resurrection he went and preached unto the spirits who have died and set up his gospel among the dead. He did this so that those who never had the chance to hear the gospel here on earth would have a chance to hear and receive it. However, they could not be baptized as spirits and the doctrine of baptism for the dead was instituted. Baptisms for the dead were performed long ago to allow those who receive the gospel in the world of spirits to receive the saving ordinance.

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Here we read about Jesus preaching to the spirits of mankind who have died. Thus the gospel was preached to the dead and the opportunity for them to accept the gospel was still offered to them after the grave. So is it so incredible to believe that the necessary ordinance of baptism is still necessary for those who have died and accepted the gospel? Why would Paul the apostle use the teaching of baptism for the dead to bolster his argument for the resurrection if it were not a true doctrine? It has been revealed in these last days that the lost doctrine of baptism for the dead is a true doctrine and that it should be practiced so that those who do accept the doctrine who are dead will have the saving ordinance done on their behalf.

 

[Clyde 154]

Pretty much.



Actually, it's very much sensible to fear death, it's a matter of self-preservation. It's pretty much primal from our animal ancestors. The only problem is humans are aware of their own mortality. An animal knows to avoid death, but it isn't aware of death's inevitability.




If the afterlife was so awesome, and you were all so certain it was a thing, you'd all be committing mass suicide like the Branch Davidians or People's Temple. That's the extreme end of religious crazy, where they have these poor fools so suckered they'll kill themselves because a Holy Huckster told them to.

Morality sans religion is just the cost of living in a civil society. Since humans are social creatures, we always have the balance between doing what we want and doing what is accepted by society. The problem with religion is that they will make up often arbitrary rules to impose on people whether they want them or not.

Comitting suicide? LMAO The quickest method to purchase a ticket to hell is to comit suicide. Its the cowards way out. As demonstrated religious faith does not promote fear but strength in dealing with this jounery called life. Those who fear dying are in denial concerning nature and the laws that govern the physical world.....laws that were put in place by the Creator. People die every day...........children die every day, those who think they can control nature via a projection of emotion such as FEAR are denying reality. Sounds like an atheist thingy, feinging knowledge where no actual facts of reality exist. A list of things promoted by human secularism that are not based upon facts in evidences but philosophy.

All theories are called theories because they lack the factual evidence to be called LAWS OF PHYSICS. 1. The Big Bang........where a magicial ball of energy apparently created itself from nothing (ignoring the law of causality) but promoted as truth by FAITH......faith that someday there will be enough facts in evidence to prove such a theory as a law.....in the future. Question? What's the differnce in waiting for proof than waiting for the afterlife.......neither can be demonstrated through the laws of physics........the differnce? Creation by the Supernatural is based upon PRIMA FACIE evidences. As something superior to nature (a nature that can't explain its own origins by the laws that govern it) must have caused nature to exist. What prima facie evidence?.........the things that are created, things that are visible and tangable to man, but can't be explained by the laws of physics. You can't deny they exist, yet you can't explain them by producing FACTS in EVIDENCE.

Theory and Law.......the difference? A theory is a projected idea void of facts. Facts are observable, reproducible and consistent.......All laws of nature are based upon facts, not speculation, not assumptions, not conjectures, but facts in evidence. A Theory can be "revised"......meaning something that can be revised was never truth in the first place.....truth cannot be revised.

www.pediaa.com/difference-between-theory-and-law/

notice the "blatant" lie in the above link as they attempt to declare a theory as a "verifed" statemet in one breath yet they include the truth about the matter. A theory is subject to being REVISED...meaing it is subject to change with each new tibit of information......while a law is constant and unchangeable. Yet........LAMO .....a theory is VERIFED? Verified: proven to be true. Pure rocket science........how can something be verified and revisable at the same instant? It cannot based upon the 1st law of logic and reason. The law of the exculded middle. Either something is true or its negation is true......nothing can hold a place as being True and Revisable at the same instant. Revisable: Updated, changed. Truth does not evolve or it was never truth in the beginning.

2. The theory of evolution begins with life being a product of dead matter magically evolving into biological life.....yet the laws of physics cannot reproduce that effect. Everytime the scientific method is used in the attempt to generate life from non living matter, its falsified by the scientific method. There has been NO successful experiment that has preduced life void of using pre-existing life. There is no evidence of any type of life evolving into a different species of life. No fish has ever evolved into warm blooded creature. No monkey has ever evolved into a human.........if so, why do monkies still exist, the ones that exist are just to dumb to evolve?

3. Morality: Why is man the only life form on earth that has a moral culture and society........why is man the only creature on earth that has the ability to reason his on mortality and make plans in an attempt to control that fate? Why is murder called murder.......when there are no murders in the animal kingdom? Why is stealing a crime when theft does not exist in the animal kingdom......aniamls take what they want or what they can by force, they do not plan to murder another animal, they simply kill to preserve and extend their bloodline.....its survival of the fittest, might makes right.....according to Darwinian cultists.

If morality did not come from Nature.........where did it come from? It must be transendent to humankind, a superior force must have provided the first laws that define morality as nature could care less.

 

[onefour1]

Magic Underwear - Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, after going through the Temple for themselves as opposed to going through the temple for the dead begin to wear the garment of the Holy Priesthood. Just as when Adam and Eve found themselves naked after acquiring a knowledge of good and evil, so too do those who go through the temple and receive the garment of the Holy Priesthood wear the garment as a reminder to cover their nakedness and also it is used to remind us of the sacred covenants that we make in the temple of God. The garment also serves as protect from evil forces. For more on the topic see The Temple Garment 'An Outward Expression of an Inward Commitment'.

 

[onefour1]

Plural Marriage - Have you ever wondered, if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, why did He allow Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and many others in the Old Testament to practice plural marriage? Surely when Abraham practiced it he was not condemned for his practice but was considered to be faithful. In fact Abraham was considered the Father of the Faithful. So why would God allow such a practice among his ancient prophets and condemn others. This was something that the Prophet Joseph Smith among others wondered and so Joseph Smith inquired of the Lord for an answer and received the following revelation:

Doctrine and Covenants 132

So the bottom line is that unless the Lord commands man to take multiple wives then they should not. So why was Joseph Smith required to enter the law of plural marriage? Joseph Smith was the prophet who opened what is known as the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times.

Ephesians 1:9-10
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

In verse 10 above, Paul the Apostle tells us that at some future time that all things will be gathered together in one in Christ. This was spoken of by Peter in Acts 3.

Acts 3:19-21
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

In this verse, After Jesus had already died and was resurrected, Peter tells us that there will come a time of refreshing. A time when Jesus will be sent unto us who before had already preached unto them. Jesus would remain in heaven until the times of restitution of all things. All things is what God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. This time is also known as the dispensation of the fulness of times. It will be a time when God would restore many of the things that have been revealed to all the prophets of the past since the world began. We believe that Joseph Smith is the prophet who opened the dispensation of the fulness of times. We also believe that one thing that was revealed to him is God's doctrine on the plurality of wives and why it was permitted in the days of the ancient apostles. That revelation is found in Doctrine and Covenants 132. We believe that when it was restored that the Lord again required some in the church to abide by law of plural marriage for a time. It was part of the restitution of all things that have been revealed to prophets of old.

So I don't really see why it is hard to believe that God would reveal his law of plural marriage again in the times of the restitution of all things also known as the dispensation of the fulness of times.

To Be Continued -

 

[Meriweather]

Because it's the end of my existence... basic survival instinct.

I wonder, if we could remember back then, how many of us feared to be born and to leave the womb...

 

[SweetSue92]

In 1830 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints organized by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Because we used the Book of Mormon, many non members of the church have called us The Mormons. In response to the above two posts, I would like to present evidence to show that our beliefs are not so far out as the above two posters would like to make everyone think.

Golden Plates - Joseph Smith received revelation that there were golden plates buried in the Hill Cumorah in upstate NY. He was shown where they were buried by a ministering angel and recovered these golden plates which had writings upon them of some of the inhabitants of ancient America. Upon uncovering the plates, Joseph Smith was instructed to translate the writings on the plates which became what is known today as the Book of Mormon. It is historic fact that metal plates were used for record keeping. Here are many images of metal plates that have been discovered in our times - Ancient Writings on Golden or Metal Plates. Is it so incredible that there have been breakoffs from the house of Israel and that they were led to other parts of the world? Is it hard to believe that God would have these Israelites keep a record of their dealings with God and preserve these records for the future? An ancient profit who was among these people was the last to handle the records and he buried them in the Hill Cumorah before his death. Later in the earth 1800's this same prophet appeared as an angel to Joseph Smith and revealed the location of where the records were buried. Joseph Smith uncovered the records and by the power of God he translated them into the Book of Mormon. We do not have the actual golden plates today because God received them back unto Himself. But before He did he allowed several men to see, touch and examine the golden plates and we have their testimonies of this even today.

THE TESTIMONY OF THREE WITNESSES​

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.
Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

THE TESTIMONY OF EIGHT WITNESSES​

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

It was revealed unto the Prophet Joseph Smith that he was a direct descendant of the House of Israel and more particularly the tribe of Ephraim. We believe that the Book of Mormon is a fulfillment of the prophesy in Ezekiel 37 of the Stick of Joseph or Ephraim which will be joined into one hand in these last days.

Ezekiel 37:16-19
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

Here we believe the stick of Judah to be the Bible and the stick of Joseph or Ephraim to be the Book of Mormon. Finally, is not all this possible by the Lord God? Is this really to incredible that God could do such a thing?

Hebrews in Pre-Columbian America - Is it so hard to believe that the House of Israel would be scattered and then gathered from all the nations of the earth?

Amos 9:9
9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.

God reestablished his covenant with Abraham, his son Isaac, and his grandson Jacob. The Lord changed Jacob’s name to Israel. Israel had 12 sons whose children became the 12 families or 12 tribes of Israel. Israel’s family eventually survived a famine by moving from the promised land to Egypt. There they multiplied and became a great nation. After many years Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt, and Joshua led them into the promised land. Eventually Israel divided into two nations—the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah.

The Lord warned the children of Israel that if they turned away from Him and worshipped idols, they would be removed from the land of their inheritance. Eventually they turned from God and were conquered and carried away from the promised land. Assyria conquered the northern kingdom of Israel in 721 B.C. They eventually became known as the 10 lost tribes. Later, the southern kingdom of Judah (or the Jews) were conquered and scattered by Babylon about 587 B.C. About 70 years later, many of the Jews began to return to the land of Israel, where they remained as a nation for many generations. In A.D. 70 and again in A.D. 135, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and scattered the Jews among all nations. Remarkably, many of the Jews maintained their identity as a people. The lost tribes, however, remained scattered throughout the world; most of them do not know that they are descendants of Israel.

So why is it so difficult to believe that some were scattered to the Americas? Is it really that unbelievable?

- To Be Continued

Nothing about Joe peering into a hat looking at a magic rock?

Nothing about him creeping on teenage girls?

Nothing about the so-called "Book of Abraham"?

 

[JoeB131]

Perhaps you are seeing problems that do not exist.

Nope, I see religion for what it is... attempts by the useless to gain power.

I wonder, if we could remember back then, how many of us feared to be born and to leave the womb...

Uh, there's life after the womb.

When you die. Nothing.