What's the Libertarian view on ?

[Michelle420]

My friend is a douche when it comes to women, however he firmly believes that living in a libertarian society would give him the freedom to exclude women in the workforce.

Only government could exclude anyone from the workforce. Your friend is not a libertarian. Now, if he doesn't want to hire women in his jock strap testing business, that should be his right. The business is his private property.

All right, that's an answer I am glad to read.

 

[eflatminor]

I will try explain where I don't agree with it, by giving an example of it. You can choose the label you find fitting.

So the self proclaimed libertarian friend who I have referred to is a friend offline not on a messageboard.

Here is an example: He believes that women should not be in the work force, if he had his way he would never hire a woman and would encourage anyone he did business with not to hire women. ( how he would encourage is, networking, if someone did business with women or employed them he would cut off doing business with them and he would get others to do the same )

He has stated that women are inferior, his premise is that men can do everything a woman can and more, he gave lengthy examples as to why he believes it.

Now to me, every human being has a right to purchase from anyone who is selling a product in public.

If you are open for business you are open for everyones business.

Now in your own private home (private property) do what you want.

To me as humans our private life is just that private but our public interactions have some ground rules so as to not separate each other into an unequal category.

It's the strange libertarian who sees people based on gender, rather than as individuals, but it's unimportant what this friend calls himself.

You say in your own private home, which you acknowledge is private property, one can do what they want. However, if I own my store is that not also private property? Does being "open for business" somehow mean that I have less property rights in my store than I do my home? And what about a garage sale? That's my home, but I'm also "open for business."

If you are opening up for a free market all humans should have a right to buy from you.

They do, but you also have the right to exclude someone from your private property. "NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, NO SERVICE", for example.

 

[Michelle420]

I have the questions answered that I was really wanting clarified, thanks for the thought out replies from the libertarians.


With that I am moving onto another thread Salute !

 

[Ringel05]

What's the Libertarian view?

Depends on which window they're looking out of..........

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I will try explain where I don't agree with it, by giving an example of it. You can choose the label you find fitting.

So the self proclaimed libertarian friend who I have referred to is a friend offline not on a messageboard.

Here is an example: He believes that women should not be in the work force, if he had his way he would never hire a woman and would encourage anyone he did business with not to hire women. ( how he would encourage is, networking, if someone did business with women or employed them he would cut off doing business with them and he would get others to do the same )

He has stated that women are inferior, his premise is that men can do everything a woman can and more, he gave lengthy examples as to why he believes it.

Now to me, every human being has a right to purchase from anyone who is selling a product in public.

If you are open for business you are open for everyones business.

Now in your own private home (private property) do what you want.

To me as humans our private life is just that private but our public interactions have some ground rules so as to not separate each other into an unequal category.

It's the strange libertarian who sees people based on gender, rather than as individuals, but it's unimportant what this friend calls himself.

You say in your own private home, which you acknowledge is private property, one can do what they want. However, if I own my store is that not also private property? Does being "open for business" somehow mean that I have less property rights in my store than I do my home? And what about a garage sale? That's my home, but I'm also "open for business."

If you are open for public business should all humans be legally allowed to purchase your product or should you be legally allowed to not sell your product to certain human beings ?

private property in my opinion is used for private life, owning property that is intended for a public business should serve all humans.

My friend is a douche when it comes to women, however he firmly believes that living in a libertarian society would give him the freedom to exclude women in the workforce.

I see it as taking away a freedom.

Let's turn this scenario around. Say your friend refused to take a job from an employer based solely on the fact that they happen to be a woman, but she really wanted to hire him. Should your friend be forced against his will to take the job?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I will try explain where I don't agree with it, by giving an example of it. You can choose the label you find fitting.

So the self proclaimed libertarian friend who I have referred to is a friend offline not on a messageboard.

Here is an example: He believes that women should not be in the work force, if he had his way he would never hire a woman and would encourage anyone he did business with not to hire women. ( how he would encourage is, networking, if someone did business with women or employed them he would cut off doing business with them and he would get others to do the same )

He has stated that women are inferior, his premise is that men can do everything a woman can and more, he gave lengthy examples as to why he believes it.

Now to me, every human being has a right to purchase from anyone who is selling a product in public.

If you are open for business you are open for everyones business.

Now in your own private home (private property) do what you want.

To me as humans our private life is just that private but our public interactions have some ground rules so as to not separate each other into an unequal category.

It's the strange libertarian who sees people based on gender, rather than as individuals, but it's unimportant what this friend calls himself.

You say in your own private home, which you acknowledge is private property, one can do what they want. However, if I own my store is that not also private property? Does being "open for business" somehow mean that I have less property rights in my store than I do my home? And what about a garage sale? That's my home, but I'm also "open for business."

If you are opening up for a free market all humans should have a right to buy from you.

So I can't refuse to sell to anybody under any circumstances?

 

[Michelle420]

It's the strange libertarian who sees people based on gender, rather than as individuals, but it's unimportant what this friend calls himself.

You say in your own private home, which you acknowledge is private property, one can do what they want. However, if I own my store is that not also private property? Does being "open for business" somehow mean that I have less property rights in my store than I do my home? And what about a garage sale? That's my home, but I'm also "open for business."

If you are opening up for a free market all humans should have a right to buy from you.

So I can't refuse to sell to anybody under any circumstances?

I am not looking to argue with you, and you all did a fine job of answering your basic beliefs on the questions I had.

I really just wanted information.

We can have a debate in which we argue to agree or disagree I just prefer a discussion in understanding someone else's point of view.

Of course it is my opinion that if you are selling groceries all humans should have the opportunity and right to buy them.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If you are opening up for a free market all humans should have a right to buy from you.

So I can't refuse to sell to anybody under any circumstances?

I am not looking to argue with you, and you all did a fine job of answering your basic beliefs on the questions I had.

I really just wanted information.

We can have a debate in which we argue to agree or disagree I just prefer a discussion in understanding someone else's point of view.

That's your prerogative. I can't force you to associate with me further if you don't want to.

 

[Michelle420]

It's the strange libertarian who sees people based on gender, rather than as individuals, but it's unimportant what this friend calls himself.

You say in your own private home, which you acknowledge is private property, one can do what they want. However, if I own my store is that not also private property? Does being "open for business" somehow mean that I have less property rights in my store than I do my home? And what about a garage sale? That's my home, but I'm also "open for business."

If you are open for public business should all humans be legally allowed to purchase your product or should you be legally allowed to not sell your product to certain human beings ?

private property in my opinion is used for private life, owning property that is intended for a public business should serve all humans.

My friend is a douche when it comes to women, however he firmly believes that living in a libertarian society would give him the freedom to exclude women in the workforce.

I see it as taking away a freedom.

Let's turn this scenario around. Say your friend refused to take a job from an employer based solely on the fact that they happen to be a woman, but she really wanted to hire him. Should your friend be forced against his will to take the job?

Turning the scenario around would be to say my friend only wanted to hire women and exclude males.

 

[Michelle420]

So I can't refuse to sell to anybody under any circumstances?

I am not looking to argue with you, and you all did a fine job of answering your basic beliefs on the questions I had.

I really just wanted information.

We can have a debate in which we argue to agree or disagree I just prefer a discussion in understanding someone else's point of view.

That's your prerogative. I can't force you to associate with me further if you don't want to.

I have thanked your posts and I think that this guy I talk to offline is not a real representative of libertarians.

Thanks for taking time out of your day.

 

[Michelle420]

What's the Libertarian view?

Depends on which window they're looking out of..........

I was mostly looking out of a personal view because of a personal friend I have/had who says he is a libertarian and who has some "out there" ideas.

I think I am seeing that he does not really represent the platform.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If you are open for public business should all humans be legally allowed to purchase your product or should you be legally allowed to not sell your product to certain human beings ?

private property in my opinion is used for private life, owning property that is intended for a public business should serve all humans.

My friend is a douche when it comes to women, however he firmly believes that living in a libertarian society would give him the freedom to exclude women in the workforce.

I see it as taking away a freedom.

Let's turn this scenario around. Say your friend refused to take a job from an employer based solely on the fact that they happen to be a woman, but she really wanted to hire him. Should your friend be forced against his will to take the job?

Turning the scenario around would be to say my friend only wanted to hire women and exclude males.

That would be one way of turning the scenario around, but I proposed a different way.

 

[Michelle420]

Let's turn this scenario around. Say your friend refused to take a job from an employer based solely on the fact that they happen to be a woman, but she really wanted to hire him. Should your friend be forced against his will to take the job?

Turning the scenario around would be to say my friend only wanted to hire women and exclude males.

That would be one way of turning the scenario around, but I proposed a different way.

Yes I know, you are asking my opinion on affirmative action for women and minorities.

Correct?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Turning the scenario around would be to say my friend only wanted to hire women and exclude males.

That would be one way of turning the scenario around, but I proposed a different way.

Yes I know, you are asking my opinion on affirmative action for women and minorities.

Correct?

No. I'm asking you whether people should be forced to take jobs from employers against their will if their only objection to the job is the employer's gender or race?

 

[Michelle420]

That would be one way of turning the scenario around, but I proposed a different way.

Yes I know, you are asking my opinion on affirmative action for women and minorities.

Correct?

No. I'm asking you whether people should be forced to take jobs from employers against their will if their only objection to the job is the employer's gender or race?

Your question is not even a close analogy to my friend stating women should not be allowed to work in the workplace.

All humans no matter what race or gender should have a right to decline an employment offer. Their reasons behind it do not take away someone else's liberty.

Whereas , in a consumer buying situation if a seller refuses to sell a product to certain humans (based on race or gender) they have taken away that humans freedom to participate in a purchase equal to other humans.

 

[Ringel05]

What's the Libertarian view?

Depends on which window they're looking out of..........

I was mostly looking out of a personal view because of a personal friend I have/had who says he is a libertarian and who has some "out there" ideas.

I think I am seeing that he does not really represent the platform.

Hence my analogy.........

 

[Michelle420]

What's the Libertarian view?

Depends on which window they're looking out of..........

I was mostly looking out of a personal view because of a personal friend I have/had who says he is a libertarian and who has some "out there" ideas.

I think I am seeing that he does not really represent the platform.

Hence my analogy.........

Sure, that's why I enjoyed the healthy discussion from several libertarians, it was insightful.

 

[dblack]

All humans no matter what race or gender should have a right to decline an employment offer. Their reasons behind it do not take away someone else's liberty.

Whereas , in a consumer buying situation if a seller refuses to sell a product to certain humans (based on race or gender) they have taken away that humans freedom to participate in a purchase equal to other humans.

But what is the substantive difference between the two? What is the fundamental difference between offering your services to one person or more than one?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yes I know, you are asking my opinion on affirmative action for women and minorities.

Correct?

No. I'm asking you whether people should be forced to take jobs from employers against their will if their only objection to the job is the employer's gender or race?

Your question is not even a close analogy to my friend stating women should not be allowed to work in the workplace.

All humans no matter what race or gender should have a right to decline an employment offer. Their reasons behind it do not take away someone else's liberty.

Whereas , in a consumer buying situation if a seller refuses to sell a product to certain humans (based on race or gender) they have taken away that humans freedom to participate in a purchase equal to other humans.

Of course it is, it's simply your analogy from a different perspective. Rather than the employer refusing to hire somebody based on gender, we have a person unwilling to take a job based on gender. The principle remains the same yet you want to give special consideration to the potential employee, rather than the employer. The libertarian says treat them both the same.

 

[Michelle420]

No. I'm asking you whether people should be forced to take jobs from employers against their will if their only objection to the job is the employer's gender or race?

Your question is not even a close analogy to my friend stating women should not be allowed to work in the workplace.

All humans no matter what race or gender should have a right to decline an employment offer. Their reasons behind it do not take away someone else's liberty.

Whereas , in a consumer buying situation if a seller refuses to sell a product to certain humans (based on race or gender) they have taken away that humans freedom to participate in a purchase equal to other humans.

Of course it is, it's simply your analogy from a different perspective. Rather than the employer refusing to hire somebody based on gender, we have a person unwilling to take a job based on gender. The principle remains the same yet you want to give special consideration to the potential employee, rather than the employer. The libertarian says treat them both the same.

Well we disagree. But that's ok.