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What you see is not really what is happening. Rinse and repeat.

berg80

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Here we go again. The right wing obfuscation machine is once again running at full steam. Black is once again white. The idea behind it is to muddy the waters. To create doubt, to confuse the facts, to float counter narratives, to give the remaining Trump fans a reason to continue their obsessive adoration of him. It takes on a number of forms.
1. Assassinate the character and impugn the motives of the opposition. For example, accuse Garland of nefarious reasons for doing his job by trying to regain possession of classified documents. Equate the FBI with storm troopers for participating in Garland's efforts.

GOP reacts to Trump search with threats and comparisons to ‘Gestapo’


2. Fall back on past, specious memes like "fake news" in order to cast doubt on any reporting that does not defend the Orange Menace.
3. Continually obscure the facts in an attempt to convince supporters that up is down.

One of the first smoke bombs thrown by Individual 1 was the notion everything he did was perfectly legal because a prez has the authority to declassify documents at will.

Presidential Power to Declassify Information, Explained


WASHINGTON — Former President Donald J. Trump’s claim that he had declassified all of the documents that the F.B.I. seized in the search of his Florida home this month — including those marked as top secret — has heightened interest in the scope of a president’s power to declassify information.

Days after the search, Mr. Trump’s office claimed that when he was president, he had a “standing order” that materials “removed from the Oval Office and taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them,” according to a statement read on Fox News by a right-wing writer Mr. Trump has designated as one of his representatives to the National Archives.

Apart from whether there is any evidence that such an order actually existed, the notion has been greeted with disdain by national security legal specialists. Glenn S. Gerstell, the top lawyer for the National Security Agency from 2015 to 2020, said the idea that whatever Mr. Trump happened to take upstairs each evening automatically became declassified — without logging what it was and notifying the agencies that used that information — was “preposterous.”

The claim is also irrelevant to Mr. Trump’s potential troubles over the document matter, because none of the three criminal laws cited in a search warrant as the basis of the investigation depend on whether documents contain classified information.


Does Classification Even Matter?

All that said, there is an even more fundamental reason why Trump’s claims of declassification are likely to fall short as a legal defense. While there are criminal statutes that hinge on classification, they aren’t among the criminal offenses that the FBI included on the search warrant. To the contrary, all three of the criminal provisions that the FBI did list can be—and two routinely are—applied to misconduct that has absolutely nothing to do with classified information, making it unclear whether Trump’s claims of declassification would make any difference even if true.

The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.

The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]” This language has been understood to cover efforts to conceal or destroy just about any sort of public record for well over a century. Consistent with this view, the Justice Department has described § 2071 as “a broad prohibition” covering “acts [that] involve either misappropriation of or damage to public records” without regard to whether they are classified and has successfully brought charges in relation to unclassified records ranging from Selective Service records to military flight logs.


Meanwhile, the facts are increasingly available in the public square and fairly straightforward.

A heavily redacted affidavit supporting the FBI’s search this month of Mar-a-Lago was just released by a Florida federal judge. The document confirms that federal law enforcement is investigating former President Trump’s possession of highly classified documents, and of presidential records, and of possible obstruction. Under the Presidential Records Act, all documents need to remain in federal custody regardless of classification level. “There is also probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found at the PREMISES,” the filing reads.

The filing — written by an unidentified FBI agent trained in “counterintelligence and espionage” — says that agents suspected Trump of hiding intelligence information relating to signals collection, human sources, and other top secret information. That suspicion came out of the 15 boxes that Trump returned to the archives in January, the affidavit said. Agents discovered 184 “unique documents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 92 documents marked as SECRET, and 25 documents marked as TOP SECRET,” per the affidavit. That included markings referencing human sources, FISA, records to be kept away from foreign nationals, and signal intelligence.

“Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS ‘s handwritten notes,” the filing reads. FPOTUS refers to the “Former President of the United States.”

This matter follows a long list (the Mueller investigation, the Zelensky phone call/extortion, the Capital riot/attempted coup, allegations of election fraud, to name a few) of instances where the facts were well known but purposely blurred by a barrage of disinformation from Trump.........then reinforced by right wing media.

Their methods continue to come to light..........
.........but not until the damage is done.
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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Who knew Irony could be so fucking long-winded?
 
OP
berg80

berg80

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Who knew Irony could be so fucking long-winded?
I'm looking at the board's "similar threads" subject titles and see it is replete with examples of exactly what I'm talking about. RWM spews lies and deceit for good reason. Gullible rubes uncritically lap it up.
 

Hugo Furst

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Here we go again. The right wing obfuscation machine is once again running at full steam. Black is once again white. The idea behind it is to muddy the waters. To create doubt, to confuse the facts, to float counter narratives, to give the remaining Trump fans a reason to continue their obsessive adoration of him. It takes on a number of forms.
1. Assassinate the character and impugn the motives of the opposition. For example, accuse Garland of nefarious reasons for doing his job by trying to regain possession of classified documents. Equate the FBI with storm troopers for participating in Garland's efforts.

GOP reacts to Trump search with threats and comparisons to ‘Gestapo’


2. Fall back on past, specious memes like "fake news" in order to cast doubt on any reporting that does not defend the Orange Menace.
3. Continually obscure the facts in an attempt to convince supporters that up is down.

One of the first smoke bombs thrown by Individual 1 was the notion everything he did was perfectly legal because a prez has the authority to declassify documents at will.

Presidential Power to Declassify Information, Explained


WASHINGTON — Former President Donald J. Trump’s claim that he had declassified all of the documents that the F.B.I. seized in the search of his Florida home this month — including those marked as top secret — has heightened interest in the scope of a president’s power to declassify information.

Days after the search, Mr. Trump’s office claimed that when he was president, he had a “standing order” that materials “removed from the Oval Office and taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them,” according to a statement read on Fox News by a right-wing writer Mr. Trump has designated as one of his representatives to the National Archives.

Apart from whether there is any evidence that such an order actually existed, the notion has been greeted with disdain by national security legal specialists. Glenn S. Gerstell, the top lawyer for the National Security Agency from 2015 to 2020, said the idea that whatever Mr. Trump happened to take upstairs each evening automatically became declassified — without logging what it was and notifying the agencies that used that information — was “preposterous.”

The claim is also irrelevant to Mr. Trump’s potential troubles over the document matter, because none of the three criminal laws cited in a search warrant as the basis of the investigation depend on whether documents contain classified information.


Does Classification Even Matter?

All that said, there is an even more fundamental reason why Trump’s claims of declassification are likely to fall short as a legal defense. While there are criminal statutes that hinge on classification, they aren’t among the criminal offenses that the FBI included on the search warrant. To the contrary, all three of the criminal provisions that the FBI did list can be—and two routinely are—applied to misconduct that has absolutely nothing to do with classified information, making it unclear whether Trump’s claims of declassification would make any difference even if true.

The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.

The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]” This language has been understood to cover efforts to conceal or destroy just about any sort of public record for well over a century. Consistent with this view, the Justice Department has described § 2071 as “a broad prohibition” covering “acts [that] involve either misappropriation of or damage to public records” without regard to whether they are classified and has successfully brought charges in relation to unclassified records ranging from Selective Service records to military flight logs.


Meanwhile, the facts are increasingly available in the public square and fairly straightforward.

A heavily redacted affidavit supporting the FBI’s search this month of Mar-a-Lago was just released by a Florida federal judge. The document confirms that federal law enforcement is investigating former President Trump’s possession of highly classified documents, and of presidential records, and of possible obstruction. Under the Presidential Records Act, all documents need to remain in federal custody regardless of classification level. “There is also probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found at the PREMISES,” the filing reads.

The filing — written by an unidentified FBI agent trained in “counterintelligence and espionage” — says that agents suspected Trump of hiding intelligence information relating to signals collection, human sources, and other top secret information. That suspicion came out of the 15 boxes that Trump returned to the archives in January, the affidavit said. Agents discovered 184 “unique documents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 92 documents marked as SECRET, and 25 documents marked as TOP SECRET,” per the affidavit. That included markings referencing human sources, FISA, records to be kept away from foreign nationals, and signal intelligence.


“Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS ‘s handwritten notes,” the filing reads. FPOTUS refers to the “Former President of the United States.”

This matter follows a long list (the Mueller investigation, the Zelensky phone call/extortion, the Capital riot/attempted coup, allegations of election fraud, to name a few) of instances where the facts were well known but purposely blurred by a barrage of disinformation from Trump.........then reinforced by right wing media.

Their methods continue to come to light..........
.........but not until the damage is done.


Thank you Herr Goebbels
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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GOP reacts to Trump search with threats and comparisons to ‘Gestapo’
The GOP reacts to the lawful, Constitutional Trump search with lies – this being the most ridiculous.
 

Votto

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Here we go again. The right wing obfuscation machine is once again running at full steam. Black is once again white. The idea behind it is to muddy the waters. To create doubt, to confuse the facts, to float counter narratives, to give the remaining Trump fans a reason to continue their obsessive adoration of him. It takes on a number of forms.
1. Assassinate the character and impugn the motives of the opposition. For example, accuse Garland of nefarious reasons for doing his job by trying to regain possession of classified documents. Equate the FBI with storm troopers for participating in Garland's efforts.

GOP reacts to Trump search with threats and comparisons to ‘Gestapo’


2. Fall back on past, specious memes like "fake news" in order to cast doubt on any reporting that does not defend the Orange Menace.
3. Continually obscure the facts in an attempt to convince supporters that up is down.

One of the first smoke bombs thrown by Individual 1 was the notion everything he did was perfectly legal because a prez has the authority to declassify documents at will.

Presidential Power to Declassify Information, Explained


WASHINGTON — Former President Donald J. Trump’s claim that he had declassified all of the documents that the F.B.I. seized in the search of his Florida home this month — including those marked as top secret — has heightened interest in the scope of a president’s power to declassify information.

Days after the search, Mr. Trump’s office claimed that when he was president, he had a “standing order” that materials “removed from the Oval Office and taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them,” according to a statement read on Fox News by a right-wing writer Mr. Trump has designated as one of his representatives to the National Archives.

Apart from whether there is any evidence that such an order actually existed, the notion has been greeted with disdain by national security legal specialists. Glenn S. Gerstell, the top lawyer for the National Security Agency from 2015 to 2020, said the idea that whatever Mr. Trump happened to take upstairs each evening automatically became declassified — without logging what it was and notifying the agencies that used that information — was “preposterous.”

The claim is also irrelevant to Mr. Trump’s potential troubles over the document matter, because none of the three criminal laws cited in a search warrant as the basis of the investigation depend on whether documents contain classified information.


Does Classification Even Matter?

All that said, there is an even more fundamental reason why Trump’s claims of declassification are likely to fall short as a legal defense. While there are criminal statutes that hinge on classification, they aren’t among the criminal offenses that the FBI included on the search warrant. To the contrary, all three of the criminal provisions that the FBI did list can be—and two routinely are—applied to misconduct that has absolutely nothing to do with classified information, making it unclear whether Trump’s claims of declassification would make any difference even if true.

The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.

The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]” This language has been understood to cover efforts to conceal or destroy just about any sort of public record for well over a century. Consistent with this view, the Justice Department has described § 2071 as “a broad prohibition” covering “acts [that] involve either misappropriation of or damage to public records” without regard to whether they are classified and has successfully brought charges in relation to unclassified records ranging from Selective Service records to military flight logs.


Meanwhile, the facts are increasingly available in the public square and fairly straightforward.

A heavily redacted affidavit supporting the FBI’s search this month of Mar-a-Lago was just released by a Florida federal judge. The document confirms that federal law enforcement is investigating former President Trump’s possession of highly classified documents, and of presidential records, and of possible obstruction. Under the Presidential Records Act, all documents need to remain in federal custody regardless of classification level. “There is also probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found at the PREMISES,” the filing reads.

The filing — written by an unidentified FBI agent trained in “counterintelligence and espionage” — says that agents suspected Trump of hiding intelligence information relating to signals collection, human sources, and other top secret information. That suspicion came out of the 15 boxes that Trump returned to the archives in January, the affidavit said. Agents discovered 184 “unique documents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 92 documents marked as SECRET, and 25 documents marked as TOP SECRET,” per the affidavit. That included markings referencing human sources, FISA, records to be kept away from foreign nationals, and signal intelligence.


“Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS ‘s handwritten notes,” the filing reads. FPOTUS refers to the “Former President of the United States.”

This matter follows a long list (the Mueller investigation, the Zelensky phone call/extortion, the Capital riot/attempted coup, allegations of election fraud, to name a few) of instances where the facts were well known but purposely blurred by a barrage of disinformation from Trump.........then reinforced by right wing media.

Their methods continue to come to light..........
.........but not until the damage is done.
Listen, either throw Trump in jail or apologize

It is just that simple.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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...all three of the criminal provisions that the FBI did list can be—and two routinely are—applied to misconduct that has absolutely nothing to do with classified information, making it unclear whether Trump’s claims of declassification would make any difference even if true.
Correct.

Trump is in legal jeopardy having nothing to do with whether the documents he lawlessly misappropriated were de-classified or not.

Trump is in legal jeopardy because he was in lawless possession of national security and military intelligence documents not properly secured – documents that could be lost, destroyed, or taken by America’s enemies.

Of course, dishonest conservatives will continue to propagate the red herring fallacy that the documents were ‘de-classified’ in a desperate attempt to deflect from Trump’s criminality.
 

1srelluc

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The GOP reacts to the lawful, Constitutional Trump search with lies – this being the most ridiculous.
No more ridiculous than "you people" tagging everything right-leaning as being "extreme".

Hell, your ilk passed "extreme" at ludicrous speed some time ago and went straight to a dire threat to our Republic.
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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Correct.

Trump is in legal jeopardy having nothing to do with whether the documents he lawlessly misappropriated were de-classified or not.

Trump is in legal jeopardy because he was in lawless possession of national security and military intelligence documents not properly secured – documents that could be lost, destroyed, or taken by America’s enemies.

Of course, dishonest conservatives will continue to propagate the red herring fallacy that the documents were ‘de-classified’ in a desperate attempt to deflect from Trump’s criminality.
For example?
 

Votto

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Correct.

Trump is in legal jeopardy having nothing to do with whether the documents he lawlessly misappropriated were de-classified or not.

Trump is in legal jeopardy because he was in lawless possession of national security and military intelligence documents not properly secured – documents that could be lost, destroyed, or taken by America’s enemies.

Of course, dishonest conservatives will continue to propagate the red herring fallacy that the documents were ‘de-classified’ in a desperate attempt to deflect from Trump’s criminality.
I think you should televise another hearing that does nothing to hold anyone to account, just smear them endelessly, or impeach him again

That is what people are the most hungry for.

They just can't get enough.
 

BasicHumanUnit

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I'm looking at the board's "similar threads" subject titles and see it is replete with examples of exactly what I'm talking about. RWM spews lies and deceit for good reason. Gullible rubes uncritically lap it up.

Urine Luck !!

No matter the irony...no matter your left wing lies....no matter what you DO TO THEM.....
The Right Wing is a Log. Nothing to fear. It'll just sit there ant take whatever you do to it. The ONLY difference is the log won't sometimes complain.

PROOF THAT COMMUNISM IS TAKING OVER AMERICA (despite of your denials)
Visit any International Airport in any major city and you will see that delta Airlines is PACKED to the gills with Socialist Snowflake fliers.
Delta.jpg

They LOVE Anti-American delta airlines. And the adjacent terminal CNN stores are bustling with business.
America is lost. Destined to become another authoritarian state just like Cuba or Venezuela. It is a done deal. It's just a matter of time how long it takes for the other side to fade away now.

I do know for a fact, however that in Communist countries they don't put up with the Bullshit that goes on in America.
You will never see movie starz in communist countries berating their country.
You won't see open borders and illegals flooding into Communist countries.
You won't see a welfare state where the lazy expect a government handout (they will simply starve) (They work for peanuts, have nothing and are happier)
You don't see the crime in Communist countries, or people riding around with 2000watt stereos disturbing entire neighborhoods like you do in the USA.
You don't see garbage being dumped from car windows, or the drug dealers brazenly on city street corners or the disrespect for the Law as you do in America.

Perhaps people cannot handle freedom? Maybe freedom wasn't such a great idea after all. Look where America ended up.
So maybe under Communist Authoritarian hard line oppressive rule things will actually get better?
 
Last edited:
OP
berg80

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Listen, either throw Trump in jail or apologize

It is just that simple.
You forgot how things work in the US. There's an indictment and a trial first. Dems don't advocate for people to be thrown in jail or "locked up" while exhorting mobs to chant such.
 
OP
berg80

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I think you should televise another hearing that does nothing to hold anyone to account, just smear them endelessly, or impeach him again
I believe there are going to be more televised hearings. Since when is having witnesses testify to what they know smearing anyone? If the facts are damning for the Orange Fraud so be it.
 
OP
berg80

berg80

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A deeper “classification review” of the intelligence implications of Mr. Trump’s retention of government documents by the F.B.I. and the director of national intelligence is continuing, the filing revealed. The government affidavit, filed to justify the search, revealed concerns in the intelligence community that Mr. Trump’s possession of highly classified materials could compromise “clandestine human sources” collecting information overseas.

In both court papers and public statements, Mr. Trump and his lawyers have argued that some of the material seized at Mar-a-Lago could be protected by executive privilege, a vestige of his service as president. But legal scholars and some judges have expressed skepticism that former presidents can unilaterally assert executive privilege over records from their time in the White House. That power, the scholars and judges say, generally resides with the current president.

While Mr. Trump and his legal team have advanced arguments about executive privilege, most of the cases they cited in their filing asking for a special master concerned independent reviews of seized documents for those shielded by attorney-client privilege.


What will be the next smoke bomb lobbed by Team Trump?
 
OP
berg80

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Trump’s Legal Team Scrambles to Find an Argument


On May 25, one of former President Donald J. Trump’s lawyers sent a letter to a top Justice Department official, laying out the argument that his client had done nothing illegal by holding onto a trove of government materials when he left the White House.
The letter, from M. Evan Corcoran, a former federal prosecutor, represented Mr. Trump’s initial defense against the investigation into the presence of highly classified documents in unsecured locations at his members-only club and residence, Mar-a-Lago. It amounted to a three-page hodgepodge of contested legal theories, including Mr. Corcoran’s assertion that Mr. Trump possessed a nearly boundless right as president to declassify materials and an argument that one law governing the handling of classified documents does not apply to a president.
Mr. Corcoran asked the Justice Department to present the letter as “exculpatory” information to the grand jury investigating the case.

Government lawyers found it deeply puzzling. They included it in the affidavit submitted to a federal magistrate in Florida in their request for the search warrant they later used to recover even more classified materials at Mar-a-Lago — to demonstrate their willingness to acknowledge Mr. Corcoran’s arguments, a person with knowledge of the decision said.

As the partial release of the search warrant affidavit on Friday, including the May 25 letter, illustrated, Mr. Trump is going into the battle over the documents with a hastily assembled team. The lawyers have offered up a variety of arguments on his behalf that have yet to do much to fend off a Justice Department that has adopted a determined, focused and so far largely successful legal approach.
“He needs a quarterback who’s a real lawyer,” said David I. Schoen, a lawyer who defended Mr. Trump in his second Senate impeachment trial. Mr. Schoen called it “an honor” to represent Mr. Trump, but said it was problematic to keep lawyers “rotating in and out.”

 

Frankeneinstein

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Here we go again. The right wing obfuscation machine is once again running at full steam. Black is once again white. The idea behind it is to muddy the waters. To create doubt, to confuse the facts, to float counter narratives, to give the remaining Trump fans a reason to continue their obsessive adoration of him. It takes on a number of forms.
1. Assassinate the character and impugn the motives of the opposition. For example, accuse Garland of nefarious reasons for doing his job by trying to regain possession of classified documents. Equate the FBI with storm troopers for participating in Garland's efforts.

GOP reacts to Trump search with threats and comparisons to ‘Gestapo’


2. Fall back on past, specious memes like "fake news" in order to cast doubt on any reporting that does not defend the Orange Menace.
3. Continually obscure the facts in an attempt to convince supporters that up is down.

One of the first smoke bombs thrown by Individual 1 was the notion everything he did was perfectly legal because a prez has the authority to declassify documents at will.

Presidential Power to Declassify Information, Explained


WASHINGTON — Former President Donald J. Trump’s claim that he had declassified all of the documents that the F.B.I. seized in the search of his Florida home this month — including those marked as top secret — has heightened interest in the scope of a president’s power to declassify information.

Days after the search, Mr. Trump’s office claimed that when he was president, he had a “standing order” that materials “removed from the Oval Office and taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them,” according to a statement read on Fox News by a right-wing writer Mr. Trump has designated as one of his representatives to the National Archives.

Apart from whether there is any evidence that such an order actually existed, the notion has been greeted with disdain by national security legal specialists. Glenn S. Gerstell, the top lawyer for the National Security Agency from 2015 to 2020, said the idea that whatever Mr. Trump happened to take upstairs each evening automatically became declassified — without logging what it was and notifying the agencies that used that information — was “preposterous.”

The claim is also irrelevant to Mr. Trump’s potential troubles over the document matter, because none of the three criminal laws cited in a search warrant as the basis of the investigation depend on whether documents contain classified information.


Does Classification Even Matter?

All that said, there is an even more fundamental reason why Trump’s claims of declassification are likely to fall short as a legal defense. While there are criminal statutes that hinge on classification, they aren’t among the criminal offenses that the FBI included on the search warrant. To the contrary, all three of the criminal provisions that the FBI did list can be—and two routinely are—applied to misconduct that has absolutely nothing to do with classified information, making it unclear whether Trump’s claims of declassification would make any difference even if true.

The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.

The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]” This language has been understood to cover efforts to conceal or destroy just about any sort of public record for well over a century. Consistent with this view, the Justice Department has described § 2071 as “a broad prohibition” covering “acts [that] involve either misappropriation of or damage to public records” without regard to whether they are classified and has successfully brought charges in relation to unclassified records ranging from Selective Service records to military flight logs.


Meanwhile, the facts are increasingly available in the public square and fairly straightforward.

A heavily redacted affidavit supporting the FBI’s search this month of Mar-a-Lago was just released by a Florida federal judge. The document confirms that federal law enforcement is investigating former President Trump’s possession of highly classified documents, and of presidential records, and of possible obstruction. Under the Presidential Records Act, all documents need to remain in federal custody regardless of classification level. “There is also probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found at the PREMISES,” the filing reads.

The filing — written by an unidentified FBI agent trained in “counterintelligence and espionage” — says that agents suspected Trump of hiding intelligence information relating to signals collection, human sources, and other top secret information. That suspicion came out of the 15 boxes that Trump returned to the archives in January, the affidavit said. Agents discovered 184 “unique documents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 92 documents marked as SECRET, and 25 documents marked as TOP SECRET,” per the affidavit. That included markings referencing human sources, FISA, records to be kept away from foreign nationals, and signal intelligence.


“Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS ‘s handwritten notes,” the filing reads. FPOTUS refers to the “Former President of the United States.”

This matter follows a long list (the Mueller investigation, the Zelensky phone call/extortion, the Capital riot/attempted coup, allegations of election fraud, to name a few) of instances where the facts were well known but purposely blurred by a barrage of disinformation from Trump.........then reinforced by right wing media.

Their methods continue to come to light..........
.........but not until the damage is done.
I'll wait for the movie
 

EvilCat Breath

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Maybe if democrats had not been trying to get Trump by any means necessary they might be believable now. But that didn't happen. They lied then, they are lying now.

A Democrat can hold up a piece of paper displaying blacked out lines from top to bottom and say "See! Can't you read? This is a list of the classified and top secret nuclear secrets that Trump stole."
 

ColonelAngus

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Here we go again. The right wing obfuscation machine is once again running at full steam. Black is once again white. The idea behind it is to muddy the waters. To create doubt, to confuse the facts, to float counter narratives, to give the remaining Trump fans a reason to continue their obsessive adoration of him. It takes on a number of forms.
1. Assassinate the character and impugn the motives of the opposition. For example, accuse Garland of nefarious reasons for doing his job by trying to regain possession of classified documents. Equate the FBI with storm troopers for participating in Garland's efforts.

GOP reacts to Trump search with threats and comparisons to ‘Gestapo’


2. Fall back on past, specious memes like "fake news" in order to cast doubt on any reporting that does not defend the Orange Menace.
3. Continually obscure the facts in an attempt to convince supporters that up is down.

One of the first smoke bombs thrown by Individual 1 was the notion everything he did was perfectly legal because a prez has the authority to declassify documents at will.

Presidential Power to Declassify Information, Explained


WASHINGTON — Former President Donald J. Trump’s claim that he had declassified all of the documents that the F.B.I. seized in the search of his Florida home this month — including those marked as top secret — has heightened interest in the scope of a president’s power to declassify information.

Days after the search, Mr. Trump’s office claimed that when he was president, he had a “standing order” that materials “removed from the Oval Office and taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them,” according to a statement read on Fox News by a right-wing writer Mr. Trump has designated as one of his representatives to the National Archives.

Apart from whether there is any evidence that such an order actually existed, the notion has been greeted with disdain by national security legal specialists. Glenn S. Gerstell, the top lawyer for the National Security Agency from 2015 to 2020, said the idea that whatever Mr. Trump happened to take upstairs each evening automatically became declassified — without logging what it was and notifying the agencies that used that information — was “preposterous.”

The claim is also irrelevant to Mr. Trump’s potential troubles over the document matter, because none of the three criminal laws cited in a search warrant as the basis of the investigation depend on whether documents contain classified information.


Does Classification Even Matter?

All that said, there is an even more fundamental reason why Trump’s claims of declassification are likely to fall short as a legal defense. While there are criminal statutes that hinge on classification, they aren’t among the criminal offenses that the FBI included on the search warrant. To the contrary, all three of the criminal provisions that the FBI did list can be—and two routinely are—applied to misconduct that has absolutely nothing to do with classified information, making it unclear whether Trump’s claims of declassification would make any difference even if true.

The first provision listed, 18 U.S.C. § 1519, is an obstruction of justice provision that makes it a crime to knowingly alter, conceal, destroy, or falsify “any record, document, or tangible object[,]” so long as it’s done with the intent to impede or influence a federal investigation or other process. It’s unclear whether the Justice Department included § 1519 on the search warrant because it believes records held at Mar-a-Lago have been concealed or manipulated in violation of § 1519, or because members of Trump’s team may have generated false records as part of the extended negotiations over the retrieval of those records (such as the inventory that one or more of Trump’s lawyers reportedly signed in June 2022 asserting, incorrectly, that all classified documents had been turned over). Either way, whether the records held at Mar-a-Lago are classified or not is irrelevant, as the Justice Department routinely brings successful § 1519 charges in relation to records that are entirely unclassified, such as police reports and records of maritime waste disposal.

The second provision, 18 U.S.C. § 2071, similarly applies to any effort to willfully and unlawfully conceal, mutilate, or destroy “any record, proceeding, map, book, paper, document, or other thing” that is “filed or deposited with any clerk or officer of any court of the United States, or in any public office, or with any judicial or public officer of the United States[.]” This language has been understood to cover efforts to conceal or destroy just about any sort of public record for well over a century. Consistent with this view, the Justice Department has described § 2071 as “a broad prohibition” covering “acts [that] involve either misappropriation of or damage to public records” without regard to whether they are classified and has successfully brought charges in relation to unclassified records ranging from Selective Service records to military flight logs.


Meanwhile, the facts are increasingly available in the public square and fairly straightforward.

A heavily redacted affidavit supporting the FBI’s search this month of Mar-a-Lago was just released by a Florida federal judge. The document confirms that federal law enforcement is investigating former President Trump’s possession of highly classified documents, and of presidential records, and of possible obstruction. Under the Presidential Records Act, all documents need to remain in federal custody regardless of classification level. “There is also probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found at the PREMISES,” the filing reads.

The filing — written by an unidentified FBI agent trained in “counterintelligence and espionage” — says that agents suspected Trump of hiding intelligence information relating to signals collection, human sources, and other top secret information. That suspicion came out of the 15 boxes that Trump returned to the archives in January, the affidavit said. Agents discovered 184 “unique documents bearing classification markings, including 67 documents marked as CONFIDENTIAL, 92 documents marked as SECRET, and 25 documents marked as TOP SECRET,” per the affidavit. That included markings referencing human sources, FISA, records to be kept away from foreign nationals, and signal intelligence.


“Several of the documents also contained what appears to be FPOTUS ‘s handwritten notes,” the filing reads. FPOTUS refers to the “Former President of the United States.”

This matter follows a long list (the Mueller investigation, the Zelensky phone call/extortion, the Capital riot/attempted coup, allegations of election fraud, to name a few) of instances where the facts were well known but purposely blurred by a barrage of disinformation from Trump.........then reinforced by right wing media.

Their methods continue to come to light..........
.........but not until the damage is done.

Is the Hunter Biden laptop a Putin creation of disinformation?
 

whitehall

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Here we go again. Democrats are in charge, lefties own almost every source of information available to the public and they still whine about the unfairness of it all. "Republicans are muddying the water", waah waah. What a bunch.
 

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