What the f am I watching?

[Soggy in NOLA]

Obama was against gay marriage. Then he was for it.

Fucking flip-flopper

 

[LoneLaugher]

Trump's a negotiator. When you negotiate, you lead with an outrageous position so you can bargain down to what you wanted all along. Either way, it's entertaining to watch haters try to figure out ways to continue hating when they get what they claim they wanted in the first place.

Bullshit.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Lefties flip-flop = nuanced
Rightys flip-flop = flip-flop

 

[my2¢]

I don't watch those shows but I do like to come here and to read and share viewpoints on which view we're swallowing from what our media choice is putting out. Generally I think Trump is doing somewhat better than I had supposed because he has flip-flopped on some issues.

 

[pismoe]

The surreality of what I just witnessed grown, articulate adults say on a major network is mind boggling.

FOX news has a four man panel to discuss Media talking about Donald foreign policy flip-flopping. They show a video, where Trump states with a straight face:

“I said NATO was obsolete, It’s is no longer obsolete.”


The host turns to the first panelist and asks him - "So is this a flip flop?"

The panelist replies - "Of course not..."

The four go on to nod at each other for about 5 min from there.

If saying EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you said before is not a clear Flip-Flop, then those words HAVE NO MEANING.

"Of course not..." is extrapolated either into "on it's face saying exactly opposite of what you said before is not flip-flopping" which is fucking insane. OR it extrapolates into "Trump would not ever flip flop, so the suggestion must be rejected outright" which is even more fucking crazy.

They don't look crazy, they don't seem to be suffering a simultaneous four-man-stroke, so why are they saying crazy shit in front of millions of Americans? What's going on here?

drumpf does not live in reality. In his mind NATO changed in the last few weeks, which of course they haven't. It is dumbass drumpf who is getting a hard lesson in reality who's view of the world was reoriented to reality.

The fake news on Fox News is entirely designed as propaganda to shore up ANYTHING a Republican does in office. They are cheap whore cheerleaders. There is no journalism on Fox News. They were founded on a court case where two journalists that were hired by them the first year they were in business to do a story and when Fox told them to twist the story to fit the Fox fake narrative the journalists refused and were fired. They sued Fox in court and Fox News argued a 'news' channel doesn't have to give facts. And they won.

This is what Fox News is. It isn't news, it is propaganda pure and simple. Lying is what they are founded on.

------------------------------------ Trump may be like me . If he gets his azz kissed and a sure sign of that azz kissing is that he is getting the cash from the 'nato' members . If the cash flows in then nato will be called a good deal by the President Trump Issac .

 

[AntonToo]

Obama was against gay marriage. Then he was for it.

Fucking flip-flopper

I don't recall a "of course not!" panel on MSNBC on that however.

They left hack, but not on this don't-believe-your-lying-ears level.

 

[AntonToo]

Lefties flip-flop = nuanced
Rightys flip-flop = flip-flop

Which one was Trump?

 

[BlindBoo]

I'm sure the Grabber in Chief was surprised at how complicated Health care became in a matter of a few weeks.

The man is the joke but the world is not laughing.........

 

[toomuchtime_]

The surreality of what I just witnessed grown, articulate adults say on a major network is mind boggling.

FOX news has a four man panel to discuss Media talking about Donald foreign policy flip-flopping. They show a video, where Trump states with a straight face:

“I said NATO was obsolete, It’s is no longer obsolete.”


The host turns to the first panelist and asks him - "So is this a flip flop?"

The panelist replies - "Of course not..."

The four go on to nod at each other for about 5 min from there.

If saying EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you said before is not a clear Flip-Flop, then those words HAVE NO MEANING.

"Of course not..." is extrapolated either into "on it's face saying exactly opposite of what you said before is not flip-flopping" which is fucking insane. OR it extrapolates into "Trump would not ever flip flop, so the suggestion must be rejected outright" which is even more fucking crazy.

They don't look crazy, they don't seem to be suffering a simultaneous four-man-stroke, so why are they saying crazy shit in front of millions of Americans? What's going on here?

Are you not being honest or do you really not understand the issue? Trump said NATO was obsolete because it remained organized to fight a war with the USSR and the Russian Federation is a very different entity than he USSR was. He said for NATO to be relevant it must focus on current problems such as transnational terrorism instead of the problems of the Cold War which no longer exist. Since Trump made these criticisms NATO has made a decision to devote more resources to such current problems and that is why this reformed NATO is not obsolete if it follows through on this decision.

 

[OldLady]

I don't watch those shows but I do like to come here and to read and share viewpoints on which view we're swallowing from what our media choice is putting out. Generally I think Trump is doing somewhat better than I had supposed because he has flip-flopped on some issues.

It's ironic, imo, that the "flip-flops" some of these folks are hollering about most likely AGREE with the positions he is now taking. But the changing his position, regardless of the improved outcome, has to be wrong because everything he does has to be wrong.

 

[ricechickie]

The surreality of what I just witnessed grown, articulate adults say on a major network is mind boggling.

FOX news has a four man panel to discuss Media talking about Donald foreign policy flip-flopping. They show a video, where Trump states with a straight face:

“I said NATO was obsolete, It’s is no longer obsolete.”


The host turns to the first panelist and asks him - "So is this a flip flop?"

The panelist replies - "Of course not..."

The four go on to nod at each other for about 5 min from there.

If saying EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you said before is not a clear Flip-Flop, then those words HAVE NO MEANING.

"Of course not..." is extrapolated either into "on it's face saying exactly opposite of what you said before is not flip-flopping" which is fucking insane. OR it extrapolates into "Trump would not ever flip flop, so the suggestion must be rejected outright" which is even more fucking crazy.

I don't think they are crazy, so why are they saying crazy shit? Whats the motive here?

Technically, puting in the modifier 'no longer' implies it was obsolete at one point in time, but then something changed, and it is not obsolete now.

Which kind of begs the question...what changed?

Don't over think it. Trump belches forth tweets like a drunk message board poster at 2am.

Nothing (except Trump's position) changed, NATO was not somehow restructured by some secret Trump initiative, he did not make it "not obsolete", it is right about the same as it was 80 days ago when he got into office.

This is not ME taking his nonsense seriously, this is 4 grown, not-drunk men in front of millions of viewers parsing them into total nonsense with a straight face.

Where have we arrived and where are we headed from here?

.
Yeah, but can someone flipflop a brain fart? It sort of has to be a thought out position before it can be flipflopped.

Yes, absolutely - flip flop can be a result of poorly thought out position. And yes Trump's brain fars have very real consequences.

flip-flop
ˈflip fläp/

verb
NORTH AMERICAN informal

2.Make an abrupt reversal of policy

So what? I used to not like onions. My taste buds changed. Now I like onions. Is that a big deal?

I'll be sure to make note of that position change if you run for President.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The surreality of what I just witnessed grown, articulate adults say on a major network is mind boggling.

FOX news has a four man panel to discuss Media talking about Donald foreign policy flip-flopping. They show a video, where Trump states with a straight face:

“I said NATO was obsolete, It’s is no longer obsolete.”


The host turns to the first panelist and asks him - "So is this a flip flop?"

The panelist replies - "Of course not..."

The four go on to nod at each other for about 5 min from there.

If saying EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you said before is not a clear Flip-Flop, then those words HAVE NO MEANING.

"Of course not..." is extrapolated either into "on it's face saying exactly opposite of what you said before is not flip-flopping" which is fucking insane. OR it extrapolates into "Trump would not ever flip flop, so the suggestion must be rejected outright" which is even more fucking crazy.

They don't look crazy, they don't seem to be suffering a simultaneous four-man-stroke, so why are they saying crazy shit in front of millions of Americans? What's going on here?

MSNBC, cbs, abc, nbc, fox are all worthless.

 

[AntonToo]

The surreality of what I just witnessed grown, articulate adults say on a major network is mind boggling.

FOX news has a four man panel to discuss Media talking about Donald foreign policy flip-flopping. They show a video, where Trump states with a straight face:

“I said NATO was obsolete, It’s is no longer obsolete.”


The host turns to the first panelist and asks him - "So is this a flip flop?"

The panelist replies - "Of course not..."

The four go on to nod at each other for about 5 min from there.

If saying EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you said before is not a clear Flip-Flop, then those words HAVE NO MEANING.

"Of course not..." is extrapolated either into "on it's face saying exactly opposite of what you said before is not flip-flopping" which is fucking insane. OR it extrapolates into "Trump would not ever flip flop, so the suggestion must be rejected outright" which is even more fucking crazy.

They don't look crazy, they don't seem to be suffering a simultaneous four-man-stroke, so why are they saying crazy shit in front of millions of Americans? What's going on here?

Are you not being honest or do you really not understand the issue? Trump said NATO was obsolete because it remained organized to fight a war with the USSR and the Russian Federation is a very different entity than he USSR was. He said for NATO to be relevant it must focus on current problems such as transnational terrorism instead of the problems of the Cold War which no longer exist. Since Trump made these criticisms NATO has made a decision to devote more resources to such current problems and that is why this reformed NATO is not obsolete if it follows through on this decision.

What changes did NATO make for Trump?

 

[toomuchtime_]

The surreality of what I just witnessed grown, articulate adults say on a major network is mind boggling.

FOX news has a four man panel to discuss Media talking about Donald foreign policy flip-flopping. They show a video, where Trump states with a straight face:

“I said NATO was obsolete, It’s is no longer obsolete.”


The host turns to the first panelist and asks him - "So is this a flip flop?"

The panelist replies - "Of course not..."

The four go on to nod at each other for about 5 min from there.

If saying EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you said before is not a clear Flip-Flop, then those words HAVE NO MEANING.

"Of course not..." is extrapolated either into "on it's face saying exactly opposite of what you said before is not flip-flopping" which is fucking insane. OR it extrapolates into "Trump would not ever flip flop, so the suggestion must be rejected outright" which is even more fucking crazy.

They don't look crazy, they don't seem to be suffering a simultaneous four-man-stroke, so why are they saying crazy shit in front of millions of Americans? What's going on here?

Are you not being honest or do you really not understand the issue? Trump said NATO was obsolete because it remained organized to fight a war with the USSR and the Russian Federation is a very different entity than he USSR was. He said for NATO to be relevant it must focus on current problems such as transnational terrorism instead of the problems of the Cold War which no longer exist. Since Trump made these criticisms NATO has made a decision to devote more resources to such current problems and that is why this reformed NATO is not obsolete if it follows through on this decision.

What changes did NATO make for Trump?

A decision was made to establish an agency within NATO to deal specifically with transnational terrorism and to devote significant resources to it.

I understand how passionate you are about calling the President a flip flopper, but I think that's because you don't understand what the term means. It signifies some one who changes positions only for political advantage and not some one who changes his mind because of new facts that are brought to his attention. So it would be reasonable to call Clinton, Biden, Kerry, etc. flip floppers since they only supported the war with Iraq because they didn't want to seem soft on national security and later only opposed it because they thought they could use that position to advantage against Bush and the Republicans.

However there is no basis for calling the President a flip flopper when he updates his positions because of new facts. Perhaps your confusion derives from Trump's negotiating techniques. He will try to intimidate some one before entering a tough negotiation and then when he thinks they are about to sign praise them so they won't feel they have lost face.
Perhaps you're confusing flip flopping with shrewd negotiating.

 

[AntonToo]

The surreality of what I just witnessed grown, articulate adults say on a major network is mind boggling.

FOX news has a four man panel to discuss Media talking about Donald foreign policy flip-flopping. They show a video, where Trump states with a straight face:

“I said NATO was obsolete, It’s is no longer obsolete.”


The host turns to the first panelist and asks him - "So is this a flip flop?"

The panelist replies - "Of course not..."

The four go on to nod at each other for about 5 min from there.

If saying EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you said before is not a clear Flip-Flop, then those words HAVE NO MEANING.

"Of course not..." is extrapolated either into "on it's face saying exactly opposite of what you said before is not flip-flopping" which is fucking insane. OR it extrapolates into "Trump would not ever flip flop, so the suggestion must be rejected outright" which is even more fucking crazy.

They don't look crazy, they don't seem to be suffering a simultaneous four-man-stroke, so why are they saying crazy shit in front of millions of Americans? What's going on here?

Are you not being honest or do you really not understand the issue? Trump said NATO was obsolete because it remained organized to fight a war with the USSR and the Russian Federation is a very different entity than he USSR was. He said for NATO to be relevant it must focus on current problems such as transnational terrorism instead of the problems of the Cold War which no longer exist. Since Trump made these criticisms NATO has made a decision to devote more resources to such current problems and that is why this reformed NATO is not obsolete if it follows through on this decision.

What changes did NATO make for Trump?

A decision was made to establish an agency within NATO to deal specifically with transnational terrorism and to devote significant resources to it.

I understand how passionate you are about calling the President a flip flopper, but I think that's because you don't understand what the term means. It signifies some one who changes positions only for political advantage and not some one who changes his mind because of new facts that are brought to his attention. So it would be reasonable to call Clinton, Biden, Kerry, etc. flip floppers since they only supported the war with Iraq because they didn't want to seem soft on national security and later only opposed it because they thought they could use that position to advantage against Bush and the Republicans.

However there is no basis for calling the President a flip flopper when he updates his positions because of new facts. Perhaps your confusion derives from Trump's negotiating techniques. He will try to intimidate some one before entering a tough negotiation and then when he thinks they are about to sign praise them so they won't feel they have lost face.
Perhaps you're confusing flip flopping with shrewd negotiating.

LOL

Here is the history of NATO's anti-terrorism efforts, read up: Countering terrorism

Here is the specific program you are talking about:

The DAT POW is a unique programme built on the principle of common funding. It is a fast route to capability development. Under the DAT POW, individual NATO countries, with support and contributions from other member countries and NATO bodies, lead projects to develop advanced technologies or counter-measures which meet the most urgent security needs in the face of terrorism.

This programme was approved by NATO leaders at the 2004 Istanbul Summit to strengthen the Alliance’s contribution to combating terrorism by enhancing capability development, supporting operations and fostering partnerships.

The DAT POW development is driven by the latest political guidance, provided by the 2010 Strategic concept and Lisbon Summit Declaration. It is influenced by NATO’s new counter-terrorism policy guidelines endorsed at the 2012 Chicago Summit


Any more bullshit to feed us?

NATO hasn't done a 180 on it's mission in the last 80 days, Trump is one that is spinning round and round here - it's blatant flip-flopping.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The surreality of what I just witnessed grown, articulate adults say on a major network is mind boggling.

FOX news has a four man panel to discuss Media talking about Donald foreign policy flip-flopping. They show a video, where Trump states with a straight face:

“I said NATO was obsolete, It’s is no longer obsolete.”


The host turns to the first panelist and asks him - "So is this a flip flop?"

The panelist replies - "Of course not..."

The four go on to nod at each other for about 5 min from there.

If saying EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you said before is not a clear Flip-Flop, then those words HAVE NO MEANING.

"Of course not..." is extrapolated either into "on it's face saying exactly opposite of what you said before is not flip-flopping" which is fucking insane. OR it extrapolates into "Trump would not ever flip flop, so the suggestion must be rejected outright" which is even more fucking crazy.

They don't look crazy, they don't seem to be suffering a simultaneous four-man-stroke, so why are they saying crazy shit in front of millions of Americans? What's going on here?

Are you not being honest or do you really not understand the issue? Trump said NATO was obsolete because it remained organized to fight a war with the USSR and the Russian Federation is a very different entity than he USSR was. He said for NATO to be relevant it must focus on current problems such as transnational terrorism instead of the problems of the Cold War which no longer exist. Since Trump made these criticisms NATO has made a decision to devote more resources to such current problems and that is why this reformed NATO is not obsolete if it follows through on this decision.

What changes did NATO make for Trump?

A decision was made to establish an agency within NATO to deal specifically with transnational terrorism and to devote significant resources to it.

I understand how passionate you are about calling the President a flip flopper, but I think that's because you don't understand what the term means. It signifies some one who changes positions only for political advantage and not some one who changes his mind because of new facts that are brought to his attention. So it would be reasonable to call Clinton, Biden, Kerry, etc. flip floppers since they only supported the war with Iraq because they didn't want to seem soft on national security and later only opposed it because they thought they could use that position to advantage against Bush and the Republicans.

However there is no basis for calling the President a flip flopper when he updates his positions because of new facts. Perhaps your confusion derives from Trump's negotiating techniques. He will try to intimidate some one before entering a tough negotiation and then when he thinks they are about to sign praise them so they won't feel they have lost face.
Perhaps you're confusing flip flopping with shrewd negotiating.

LOL

Here is the history of NATO's anti-terrorism efforts, read up: Countering terrorism

Here is the specific program you are talking about:

The DAT POW is a unique programme built on the principle of common funding. It is a fast route to capability development. Under the DAT POW, individual NATO countries, with support and contributions from other member countries and NATO bodies, lead projects to develop advanced technologies or counter-measures which meet the most urgent security needs in the face of terrorism.

This programme was approved by NATO leaders at the 2004 Istanbul Summit to strengthen the Alliance’s contribution to combating terrorism by enhancing capability development, supporting operations and fostering partnerships.

The DAT POW development is driven by the latest political guidance, provided by the 2010 Strategic concept and Lisbon Summit Declaration. It is influenced by NATO’s new counter-terrorism policy guidelines endorsed at the 2012 Chicago Summit


Any more bullshit to feed us?

NATO hasn't done a 180 on it's mission in the last 80 days, Trump is one that is spinning round and round here - it's blatant flip-flopping.

I understand that bullshit is your favorite mean but you're already so full of it, I thought it would be better to provide you with some facts.

After years of doing little to fight transnational terrorism suddenly last summer after harsh criticism from Trump fighting terrorism became a main focus of activity for NATO.


July 2016
At the Warsaw Summit, Allied leaders decide to provide support through NATO to the fight against ISIL. NATO AWACS aircraft will provide information to the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL. NATO will begin training and capacity building in Iraq, while continuing to train hundreds of Iraqi officers in Jordan. Allies will enhance ongoing cooperation with Jordan in areas such as cyber defence and countering roadside bombs.
Allies also undertake to promote information-sharing through the optimised use of multilateral platforms and to continue to seek to enhance cooperation in exchanging information on returning foreign fighters.

October 2016
Operation Active Endeavour is terminated and succeeded by Sea Guardian, a broader maritime operation in the Mediterranean. Sea Guardian is a flexible maritime operation that is able to perform the full range of maritime security tasks, if so decided by the North Atlantic Council.

5 February 2017
NATO launches a new training programme in Iraq, teaching Iraqi security forces to counter improvised explosive devices (IEDs). This is particularly relevant for territory newly liberated from ISIL occupation.

16 February 2017
Defence ministers agreed to create a new regional ‘Hub for the South’, based at NATO’s Joint Force Command in Naples. It will be a focal point for increasing both the Alliance’s understanding of the challenges stemming from the region, and its ability to respond to them.

31 March 2017

Foreign ministers decided to step up their efforts inside Iraq, including with military medicine courses to train new paramedics, and with training to help maintain tanks and armoured fighting vehicles.

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_77646.htm

If you were more interested in the issues instead of just partisan politics, you wouldn't put up such stupid posts.

 

[AntonToo]

The surreality of what I just witnessed grown, articulate adults say on a major network is mind boggling.

FOX news has a four man panel to discuss Media talking about Donald foreign policy flip-flopping. They show a video, where Trump states with a straight face:

“I said NATO was obsolete, It’s is no longer obsolete.”


The host turns to the first panelist and asks him - "So is this a flip flop?"

The panelist replies - "Of course not..."

The four go on to nod at each other for about 5 min from there.

If saying EXACTLY OPPOSITE of what you said before is not a clear Flip-Flop, then those words HAVE NO MEANING.

"Of course not..." is extrapolated either into "on it's face saying exactly opposite of what you said before is not flip-flopping" which is fucking insane. OR it extrapolates into "Trump would not ever flip flop, so the suggestion must be rejected outright" which is even more fucking crazy.

They don't look crazy, they don't seem to be suffering a simultaneous four-man-stroke, so why are they saying crazy shit in front of millions of Americans? What's going on here?

Are you not being honest or do you really not understand the issue? Trump said NATO was obsolete because it remained organized to fight a war with the USSR and the Russian Federation is a very different entity than he USSR was. He said for NATO to be relevant it must focus on current problems such as transnational terrorism instead of the problems of the Cold War which no longer exist. Since Trump made these criticisms NATO has made a decision to devote more resources to such current problems and that is why this reformed NATO is not obsolete if it follows through on this decision.

What changes did NATO make for Trump?

A decision was made to establish an agency within NATO to deal specifically with transnational terrorism and to devote significant resources to it.

I understand how passionate you are about calling the President a flip flopper, but I think that's because you don't understand what the term means. It signifies some one who changes positions only for political advantage and not some one who changes his mind because of new facts that are brought to his attention. So it would be reasonable to call Clinton, Biden, Kerry, etc. flip floppers since they only supported the war with Iraq because they didn't want to seem soft on national security and later only opposed it because they thought they could use that position to advantage against Bush and the Republicans.

However there is no basis for calling the President a flip flopper when he updates his positions because of new facts. Perhaps your confusion derives from Trump's negotiating techniques. He will try to intimidate some one before entering a tough negotiation and then when he thinks they are about to sign praise them so they won't feel they have lost face.
Perhaps you're confusing flip flopping with shrewd negotiating.

LOL

Here is the history of NATO's anti-terrorism efforts, read up: Countering terrorism

Here is the specific program you are talking about:

The DAT POW is a unique programme built on the principle of common funding. It is a fast route to capability development. Under the DAT POW, individual NATO countries, with support and contributions from other member countries and NATO bodies, lead projects to develop advanced technologies or counter-measures which meet the most urgent security needs in the face of terrorism.

This programme was approved by NATO leaders at the 2004 Istanbul Summit to strengthen the Alliance’s contribution to combating terrorism by enhancing capability development, supporting operations and fostering partnerships.

The DAT POW development is driven by the latest political guidance, provided by the 2010 Strategic concept and Lisbon Summit Declaration. It is influenced by NATO’s new counter-terrorism policy guidelines endorsed at the 2012 Chicago Summit


Any more bullshit to feed us?

NATO hasn't done a 180 on it's mission in the last 80 days, Trump is one that is spinning round and round here - it's blatant flip-flopping.

I understand that bullshit is your favorite mean but you're already so full of it, I thought it would be better to provide you with some facts.

After years of doing little to fight transnational terrorism suddenly last summer after harsh criticism from Trump fighting terrorism became a main focus of activity for NATO.


July 2016
At the Warsaw Summit, Allied leaders decide to provide support through NATO to the fight against ISIL. NATO AWACS aircraft will provide information to the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL. NATO will begin training and capacity building in Iraq, while continuing to train hundreds of Iraqi officers in Jordan. Allies will enhance ongoing cooperation with Jordan in areas such as cyber defence and countering roadside bombs.
Allies also undertake to promote information-sharing through the optimised use of multilateral platforms and to continue to seek to enhance cooperation in exchanging information on returning foreign fighters.

October 2016
Operation Active Endeavour is terminated and succeeded by Sea Guardian, a broader maritime operation in the Mediterranean. Sea Guardian is a flexible maritime operation that is able to perform the full range of maritime security tasks, if so decided by the North Atlantic Council.

5 February 2017
NATO launches a new training programme in Iraq, teaching Iraqi security forces to counter improvised explosive devices (IEDs). This is particularly relevant for territory newly liberated from ISIL occupation.

16 February 2017
Defence ministers agreed to create a new regional ‘Hub for the South’, based at NATO’s Joint Force Command in Naples. It will be a focal point for increasing both the Alliance’s understanding of the challenges stemming from the region, and its ability to respond to them.

31 March 2017

Foreign ministers decided to step up their efforts inside Iraq, including with military medicine courses to train new paramedics, and with training to help maintain tanks and armoured fighting vehicles.

Countering terrorism

If you were more interested in the issues instead of just partisan politics, you wouldn't put up such stupid posts.

Bullshit, Trump called NATO absolete in the middle of January 2017.

Trump Criticizes NATO and Hopes for ‘Good Deals’ With Russia

There were NATO anti-terrorism efforts well before absolete comments and NATO has not transformed in any significant way since January to justify Absolete into Not-absolete flopping.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Trump's a negotiator. When you negotiate, you lead with an outrageous position so you can bargain down to what you wanted all along. Either way, it's entertaining to watch haters try to figure out ways to continue hating when they get what they claim they wanted in the first place.

Erm, care to expound on that?

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Obama was against gay marriage. Then he was for it.

Fucking flip-flopper

Hey! It's only frowned upon when Democrats do it.

 

[AntonToo]

Obama was against gay marriage. Then he was for it.

Fucking flip-flopper

Hey! It's only frowned upon when Democrats do it.

Can you show me someone on msnbc denying it was a flop?