What the f am I watching?

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Obama was against gay marriage. Then he was for it.

******* flip-flopper

Hey! It's only frowned upon when Democrats do it.

Can you show me someone on msnbc denying it was a flop?

I don't watch, sorry.

 

[AntonToo]

Obama was against gay marriage. Then he was for it.

******* flip-flopper

Hey! It's only frowned upon when Democrats do it.

Can you show me someone on msnbc denying it was a flop?

I don't watch, sorry.

Well I do and I just don't see the sort of blatant nonsense I'm seeing over at FOX

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Obama was against gay marriage. Then he was for it.

******* flip-flopper

Hey! It's only frowned upon when Democrats do it.

Can you show me someone on msnbc denying it was a flop?

I don't watch, sorry.

Well I do and I just don't see the sort of blatant nonsense I'm seeing over at FOX

I'm sure you're right.

 

[Iceweasel]

Technically, puting in the modifier 'no longer' implies it was obsolete at one point in time, but then something changed, and it is not obsolete now.

Which kind of begs the question...what changed?

Don't over think it. Trump belches forth tweets like a drunk message board poster at 2am.

Nothing (except Trump's position) changed, NATO was not somehow restructured by some secret Trump initiative, he did not make it "not obsolete", it is right about the same as it was 80 days ago when he got into office.

This is not ME taking his nonsense seriously, this is 4 grown, not-drunk men in front of millions of viewers parsing them into total nonsense with a straight face.

Where have we arrived and where are we headed from here?

.
Yeah, but can someone flipflop a brain fart? It sort of has to be a thought out position before it can be flipflopped.

Yes, absolutely - flip flop can be a result of poorly thought out position. And yes Trump's brain fars have very real consequences.

flip-flop
ˈflip fläp/

verb
NORTH AMERICAN informal

2.Make an abrupt reversal of policy

So what? I used to not like onions. My taste buds changed. Now I like onions. Is that a big deal?

I'll be sure to make note of that position change if you run for President.

You mean like Hillary? For the war, against the war. For the TPP, against the TPP. For Russia, against Russia. Etc.

 

[edward37]

I don't watch those shows but I do like to come here and to read and share viewpoints on which view we're swallowing from what our media choice is putting out. Generally I think Trump is doing somewhat better than I had supposed because he has flip-flopped on some issues.

better ? yes his approval numbers went up slightly BUT they are still the lowest ever for a 100 day president

Face it ,the man is a jerk

 

[Iceweasel]

I don't watch those shows but I do like to come here and to read and share viewpoints on which view we're swallowing from what our media choice is putting out. Generally I think Trump is doing somewhat better than I had supposed because he has flip-flopped on some issues.

better ? yes his approval numbers went up slightly BUT they are still the lowest ever for a 100 day president

Face it ,the man is a jerk

How so? He's still making you poop your baby diapers. That works for me. Any only fools believe polling at this point.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Are you not being honest or do you really not understand the issue? Trump said NATO was obsolete because it remained organized to fight a war with the USSR and the Russian Federation is a very different entity than he USSR was. He said for NATO to be relevant it must focus on current problems such as transnational terrorism instead of the problems of the Cold War which no longer exist. Since Trump made these criticisms NATO has made a decision to devote more resources to such current problems and that is why this reformed NATO is not obsolete if it follows through on this decision.

What changes did NATO make for Trump?

A decision was made to establish an agency within NATO to deal specifically with transnational terrorism and to devote significant resources to it.

I understand how passionate you are about calling the President a flip flopper, but I think that's because you don't understand what the term means. It signifies some one who changes positions only for political advantage and not some one who changes his mind because of new facts that are brought to his attention. So it would be reasonable to call Clinton, Biden, Kerry, etc. flip floppers since they only supported the war with Iraq because they didn't want to seem soft on national security and later only opposed it because they thought they could use that position to advantage against Bush and the Republicans.

However there is no basis for calling the President a flip flopper when he updates his positions because of new facts. Perhaps your confusion derives from Trump's negotiating techniques. He will try to intimidate some one before entering a tough negotiation and then when he thinks they are about to sign praise them so they won't feel they have lost face.
Perhaps you're confusing flip flopping with shrewd negotiating.

LOL

Here is the history of NATO's anti-terrorism efforts, read up: Countering terrorism

Here is the specific program you are talking about:

The DAT POW is a unique programme built on the principle of common funding. It is a fast route to capability development. Under the DAT POW, individual NATO countries, with support and contributions from other member countries and NATO bodies, lead projects to develop advanced technologies or counter-measures which meet the most urgent security needs in the face of terrorism.

This programme was approved by NATO leaders at the 2004 Istanbul Summit to strengthen the Alliance’s contribution to combating terrorism by enhancing capability development, supporting operations and fostering partnerships.

The DAT POW development is driven by the latest political guidance, provided by the 2010 Strategic concept and Lisbon Summit Declaration. It is influenced by NATO’s new counter-terrorism policy guidelines endorsed at the 2012 Chicago Summit


Any more bullshit to feed us?

NATO hasn't done a 180 on it's mission in the last 80 days, Trump is one that is spinning round and round here - it's blatant flip-flopping.

I understand that bullshit is your favorite mean but you're already so full of it, I thought it would be better to provide you with some facts.

After years of doing little to fight transnational terrorism suddenly last summer after harsh criticism from Trump fighting terrorism became a main focus of activity for NATO.


July 2016
At the Warsaw Summit, Allied leaders decide to provide support through NATO to the fight against ISIL. NATO AWACS aircraft will provide information to the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL. NATO will begin training and capacity building in Iraq, while continuing to train hundreds of Iraqi officers in Jordan. Allies will enhance ongoing cooperation with Jordan in areas such as cyber defence and countering roadside bombs.
Allies also undertake to promote information-sharing through the optimised use of multilateral platforms and to continue to seek to enhance cooperation in exchanging information on returning foreign fighters.

October 2016
Operation Active Endeavour is terminated and succeeded by Sea Guardian, a broader maritime operation in the Mediterranean. Sea Guardian is a flexible maritime operation that is able to perform the full range of maritime security tasks, if so decided by the North Atlantic Council.

5 February 2017
NATO launches a new training programme in Iraq, teaching Iraqi security forces to counter improvised explosive devices (IEDs). This is particularly relevant for territory newly liberated from ISIL occupation.

16 February 2017
Defence ministers agreed to create a new regional ‘Hub for the South’, based at NATO’s Joint Force Command in Naples. It will be a focal point for increasing both the Alliance’s understanding of the challenges stemming from the region, and its ability to respond to them.

31 March 2017

Foreign ministers decided to step up their efforts inside Iraq, including with military medicine courses to train new paramedics, and with training to help maintain tanks and armoured fighting vehicles.

Countering terrorism

If you were more interested in the issues instead of just partisan politics, you wouldn't put up such stupid posts.

Bullshit, Trump called NATO absolete in the middle of January 2017.

Trump Criticizes NATO and Hopes for ‘Good Deals’ With Russia

There were NATO anti-terrorism efforts well before absolete comments and NATO has not transformed in any significant way since January to justify Absolete into Not-absolete flopping.

No, he first said it in March 2016.

Second instance: Trump seemed more negative about NATO in an interview with ABC’s This Week, March 27, 2016.

"I think NATO's obsolete. NATO was done at a time you had the Soviet Union, which was obviously larger, much larger than Russia is today. I'm not saying Russia's not a threat. But we have other threats. We have the threat of terrorism and NATO doesn’t discuss terrorism, NATO's not meant for terrorism. NATO doesn’t have the right countries in it for terrorism.

Trump's position? A little bit of everything

 

[AntonToo]

What changes did NATO make for Trump?

A decision was made to establish an agency within NATO to deal specifically with transnational terrorism and to devote significant resources to it.

I understand how passionate you are about calling the President a flip flopper, but I think that's because you don't understand what the term means. It signifies some one who changes positions only for political advantage and not some one who changes his mind because of new facts that are brought to his attention. So it would be reasonable to call Clinton, Biden, Kerry, etc. flip floppers since they only supported the war with Iraq because they didn't want to seem soft on national security and later only opposed it because they thought they could use that position to advantage against Bush and the Republicans.

However there is no basis for calling the President a flip flopper when he updates his positions because of new facts. Perhaps your confusion derives from Trump's negotiating techniques. He will try to intimidate some one before entering a tough negotiation and then when he thinks they are about to sign praise them so they won't feel they have lost face.
Perhaps you're confusing flip flopping with shrewd negotiating.

LOL

Here is the history of NATO's anti-terrorism efforts, read up: Countering terrorism

Here is the specific program you are talking about:

The DAT POW is a unique programme built on the principle of common funding. It is a fast route to capability development. Under the DAT POW, individual NATO countries, with support and contributions from other member countries and NATO bodies, lead projects to develop advanced technologies or counter-measures which meet the most urgent security needs in the face of terrorism.

This programme was approved by NATO leaders at the 2004 Istanbul Summit to strengthen the Alliance’s contribution to combating terrorism by enhancing capability development, supporting operations and fostering partnerships.

The DAT POW development is driven by the latest political guidance, provided by the 2010 Strategic concept and Lisbon Summit Declaration. It is influenced by NATO’s new counter-terrorism policy guidelines endorsed at the 2012 Chicago Summit


Any more bullshit to feed us?

NATO hasn't done a 180 on it's mission in the last 80 days, Trump is one that is spinning round and round here - it's blatant flip-flopping.

I understand that bullshit is your favorite mean but you're already so full of it, I thought it would be better to provide you with some facts.

After years of doing little to fight transnational terrorism suddenly last summer after harsh criticism from Trump fighting terrorism became a main focus of activity for NATO.


July 2016
At the Warsaw Summit, Allied leaders decide to provide support through NATO to the fight against ISIL. NATO AWACS aircraft will provide information to the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL. NATO will begin training and capacity building in Iraq, while continuing to train hundreds of Iraqi officers in Jordan. Allies will enhance ongoing cooperation with Jordan in areas such as cyber defence and countering roadside bombs.
Allies also undertake to promote information-sharing through the optimised use of multilateral platforms and to continue to seek to enhance cooperation in exchanging information on returning foreign fighters.

October 2016
Operation Active Endeavour is terminated and succeeded by Sea Guardian, a broader maritime operation in the Mediterranean. Sea Guardian is a flexible maritime operation that is able to perform the full range of maritime security tasks, if so decided by the North Atlantic Council.

5 February 2017
NATO launches a new training programme in Iraq, teaching Iraqi security forces to counter improvised explosive devices (IEDs). This is particularly relevant for territory newly liberated from ISIL occupation.

16 February 2017
Defence ministers agreed to create a new regional ‘Hub for the South’, based at NATO’s Joint Force Command in Naples. It will be a focal point for increasing both the Alliance’s understanding of the challenges stemming from the region, and its ability to respond to them.

31 March 2017

Foreign ministers decided to step up their efforts inside Iraq, including with military medicine courses to train new paramedics, and with training to help maintain tanks and armoured fighting vehicles.

Countering terrorism

If you were more interested in the issues instead of just partisan politics, you wouldn't put up such stupid posts.

Bullshit, Trump called NATO absolete in the middle of January 2017.

Trump Criticizes NATO and Hopes for ‘Good Deals’ With Russia

There were NATO anti-terrorism efforts well before absolete comments and NATO has not transformed in any significant way since January to justify Absolete into Not-absolete flopping.

No, he first said it in March 2016.

Second instance: Trump seemed more negative about NATO in an interview with ABC’s This Week, March 27, 2016.

"I think NATO's obsolete. NATO was done at a time you had the Soviet Union, which was obviously larger, much larger than Russia is today. I'm not saying Russia's not a threat. But we have other threats. We have the threat of terrorism and NATO doesn’t discuss terrorism, NATO's not meant for terrorism. NATO doesn’t have the right countries in it for terrorism.

Trump's position? A little bit of everything

Didn't I just show you NATO's anti-terrorism efforts well before Trump's comments?

You can say it was not enough, but you are factually wrong when you say, like Trump, that "NATO doesn't discuss terrorism". Absolutely they did.

Also, favoring NATO spending more resources on counter-terrorism justify calling them obsolete.

 

[toomuchtime_]

A decision was made to establish an agency within NATO to deal specifically with transnational terrorism and to devote significant resources to it.

I understand how passionate you are about calling the President a flip flopper, but I think that's because you don't understand what the term means. It signifies some one who changes positions only for political advantage and not some one who changes his mind because of new facts that are brought to his attention. So it would be reasonable to call Clinton, Biden, Kerry, etc. flip floppers since they only supported the war with Iraq because they didn't want to seem soft on national security and later only opposed it because they thought they could use that position to advantage against Bush and the Republicans.

However there is no basis for calling the President a flip flopper when he updates his positions because of new facts. Perhaps your confusion derives from Trump's negotiating techniques. He will try to intimidate some one before entering a tough negotiation and then when he thinks they are about to sign praise them so they won't feel they have lost face.
Perhaps you're confusing flip flopping with shrewd negotiating.

LOL

Here is the history of NATO's anti-terrorism efforts, read up: Countering terrorism

Here is the specific program you are talking about:

The DAT POW is a unique programme built on the principle of common funding. It is a fast route to capability development. Under the DAT POW, individual NATO countries, with support and contributions from other member countries and NATO bodies, lead projects to develop advanced technologies or counter-measures which meet the most urgent security needs in the face of terrorism.

This programme was approved by NATO leaders at the 2004 Istanbul Summit to strengthen the Alliance’s contribution to combating terrorism by enhancing capability development, supporting operations and fostering partnerships.

The DAT POW development is driven by the latest political guidance, provided by the 2010 Strategic concept and Lisbon Summit Declaration. It is influenced by NATO’s new counter-terrorism policy guidelines endorsed at the 2012 Chicago Summit


Any more bullshit to feed us?

NATO hasn't done a 180 on it's mission in the last 80 days, Trump is one that is spinning round and round here - it's blatant flip-flopping.

I understand that bullshit is your favorite mean but you're already so full of it, I thought it would be better to provide you with some facts.

After years of doing little to fight transnational terrorism suddenly last summer after harsh criticism from Trump fighting terrorism became a main focus of activity for NATO.


July 2016
At the Warsaw Summit, Allied leaders decide to provide support through NATO to the fight against ISIL. NATO AWACS aircraft will provide information to the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL. NATO will begin training and capacity building in Iraq, while continuing to train hundreds of Iraqi officers in Jordan. Allies will enhance ongoing cooperation with Jordan in areas such as cyber defence and countering roadside bombs.
Allies also undertake to promote information-sharing through the optimised use of multilateral platforms and to continue to seek to enhance cooperation in exchanging information on returning foreign fighters.

October 2016
Operation Active Endeavour is terminated and succeeded by Sea Guardian, a broader maritime operation in the Mediterranean. Sea Guardian is a flexible maritime operation that is able to perform the full range of maritime security tasks, if so decided by the North Atlantic Council.

5 February 2017
NATO launches a new training programme in Iraq, teaching Iraqi security forces to counter improvised explosive devices (IEDs). This is particularly relevant for territory newly liberated from ISIL occupation.

16 February 2017
Defence ministers agreed to create a new regional ‘Hub for the South’, based at NATO’s Joint Force Command in Naples. It will be a focal point for increasing both the Alliance’s understanding of the challenges stemming from the region, and its ability to respond to them.

31 March 2017

Foreign ministers decided to step up their efforts inside Iraq, including with military medicine courses to train new paramedics, and with training to help maintain tanks and armoured fighting vehicles.

Countering terrorism

If you were more interested in the issues instead of just partisan politics, you wouldn't put up such stupid posts.

Bullshit, Trump called NATO absolete in the middle of January 2017.

Trump Criticizes NATO and Hopes for ‘Good Deals’ With Russia

There were NATO anti-terrorism efforts well before absolete comments and NATO has not transformed in any significant way since January to justify Absolete into Not-absolete flopping.

No, he first said it in March 2016.

Second instance: Trump seemed more negative about NATO in an interview with ABC’s This Week, March 27, 2016.

"I think NATO's obsolete. NATO was done at a time you had the Soviet Union, which was obviously larger, much larger than Russia is today. I'm not saying Russia's not a threat. But we have other threats. We have the threat of terrorism and NATO doesn’t discuss terrorism, NATO's not meant for terrorism. NATO doesn’t have the right countries in it for terrorism.

Trump's position? A little bit of everything

Didn't I just show you NATO's anti-terrorism efforts well before Trump's comments?

You can say it was not enough, but you are factually wrong when you say, like Trump, that "NATO doesn't discuss terrorism". Absolutely they did.

Also, favoring NATO spending more resources on counter-terrorism justify calling them obsolete.

After Trump called NATO obsolete in March 2016 because it did not effectively address the issue of transnational terrorism there were stepped up efforts to address this problem as I showed you.

Perhaps you don't understand what the word, obsolete, means. If they are not effectively addressing current problems they are obsolete.

 

[hadit]

Trump's a negotiator. When you negotiate, you lead with an outrageous position so you can bargain down to what you wanted all along. Either way, it's entertaining to watch haters try to figure out ways to continue hating when they get what they claim they wanted in the first place.

Erm, care to expound on that?

Watch how he handles things. He'll always start from a ridiculous position, then move toward the middle and eventually get something that's close to what he wanted in the first place.