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Debate Now What should be the goal of our prison system?

What say you?

  • Reformation

    Votes: 4 18.2%
  • Hard time

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • A mix of both

    Votes: 11 50.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 18.2%

  • Total voters
    22

Bruce_T_Laney

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
Prison should be for reform and reeducation back into our society if possible.

Someone smoking weed is not a crime to me but robbing your mother ( not you ) is one that should be punished with hard labor and community service in some form when you have one year left on your sentence.

Hard core crimes like cold blooded murder is a toss away the keys moment but I also feel the person should pay their debt to the family or families and if the family agree to execution then kill the person.

Again it depends on the crime but one thing is for sure cellphone usage should be treated like a DUI because too many senseless deaths because of people being reckless while driving...

So a mix of both emphasizing on reeducation, hard labor and last year of sentence should focus on community service...

Yoar cool but I am cooler...
 

22lcidw

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
The entire system needs overhauling.

All prosecutors should be required to spend every third year of their career as a public defender all the way up to the district attorney’s office. The poor get little defense in the current system.

Sentencing needs to be retroactively corrected.
Amber Guyger got 10 years after being convicted of murder. Paul Cullen...also a Texan...got 9 years. He poisoned a tree in Austin. Some in prison for lengthy sentences were not convicted of violent crimes while those who were got lesser sentences.

Rehabilitation is a joke for the most part. A 5 y/o knows the difference between right and wrong. No need for rehab. Job training is given free of charge to criminals but not civilians and the result is more people in prison than ever before—or close to it anyway.

If you do want to do rehab training, do it during the 6 months before parole hearings. As with all training, it gets stale when not used.
Job training used to be incorporated in schools in "shop" classes. School clubs included those that valued and enhanced hands-on, practical subjects. Now, public school funds are expended on "inclusive" indoctrination about homosexuality and other social issues that parents used to teach children. Unfortunately, parental values are too often in conflict with the liberal narrative, which is taught in public schools. Dealing with limited funding, our liberal masters would rather waste money insuring that the proper pronouns are applied to the mentally deranged than teaching children useful life skills.
You are tragically mistaken.

Vocational education does need to be put back in school.

Budget cuts to sports would help make that so. Intramural athletics is as far as sports should be taken. Traveling across the state to play a football game is crazy.
Title IX has hurt.
Not at all
It has taken resources from man's sports which play many vital roles for males and gave them for mostly useless women's sports. most of the money taken in from colleges are from Football and Men's Basketball. We see the resuts with male poverty and violence and don't get it. When midnight basketball was started a couple of decades ago or so in poorer neighborhoods there was a reason. As the poverty rate keeps inching up there will be a blow off point.
 

candycorn

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The entire system needs overhauling.

All prosecutors should be required to spend every third year of their career as a public defender all the way up to the district attorney’s office. The poor get little defense in the current system.

Sentencing needs to be retroactively corrected.
Amber Guyger got 10 years after being convicted of murder. Paul Cullen...also a Texan...got 9 years. He poisoned a tree in Austin. Some in prison for lengthy sentences were not convicted of violent crimes while those who were got lesser sentences.

Rehabilitation is a joke for the most part. A 5 y/o knows the difference between right and wrong. No need for rehab. Job training is given free of charge to criminals but not civilians and the result is more people in prison than ever before—or close to it anyway.

If you do want to do rehab training, do it during the 6 months before parole hearings. As with all training, it gets stale when not used.
Job training used to be incorporated in schools in "shop" classes. School clubs included those that valued and enhanced hands-on, practical subjects. Now, public school funds are expended on "inclusive" indoctrination about homosexuality and other social issues that parents used to teach children. Unfortunately, parental values are too often in conflict with the liberal narrative, which is taught in public schools. Dealing with limited funding, our liberal masters would rather waste money insuring that the proper pronouns are applied to the mentally deranged than teaching children useful life skills.
You are tragically mistaken.

Vocational education does need to be put back in school.

Budget cuts to sports would help make that so. Intramural athletics is as far as sports should be taken. Traveling across the state to play a football game is crazy.
Title IX has hurt.
Not at all
It has taken resources from man's sports which play many vital roles for males and gave them for mostly useless women's sports. most of the money taken in from colleges are from Football and Men's Basketball. We see the resuts with male poverty and violence and don't get it. When midnight basketball was started a couple of decades ago or so in poorer neighborhoods there was a reason. As the poverty rate keeps inching up there will be a blow off point.
wow, That was the dumbest thing ever written.

Seriously...cutting scholarships has resulted in more crime?
 

22lcidw

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Job training used to be incorporated in schools in "shop" classes. School clubs included those that valued and enhanced hands-on, practical subjects. Now, public school funds are expended on "inclusive" indoctrination about homosexuality and other social issues that parents used to teach children. Unfortunately, parental values are too often in conflict with the liberal narrative, which is taught in public schools. Dealing with limited funding, our liberal masters would rather waste money insuring that the proper pronouns are applied to the mentally deranged than teaching children useful life skills.
You are tragically mistaken.

Vocational education does need to be put back in school.

Budget cuts to sports would help make that so. Intramural athletics is as far as sports should be taken. Traveling across the state to play a football game is crazy.
Title IX has hurt.
Not at all
It has taken resources from man's sports which play many vital roles for males and gave them for mostly useless women's sports. most of the money taken in from colleges are from Football and Men's Basketball. We see the resuts with male poverty and violence and don't get it. When midnight basketball was started a couple of decades ago or so in poorer neighborhoods there was a reason. As the poverty rate keeps inching up there will be a blow off point.
wow, That was the dumbest thing ever written.

Seriously...cutting scholarships has resulted in more crime?
There is a difference between men's sports and women's sports. Men live by testosterone and potential violence if conditions are right. Sports is an outlet. Money detoured to women's sports leaves less money for men's sports or activities to tire males. Now there are people who will skewer me for this. And if I had daughters I would understand it from that angle. There is not enough funds to cover and help everyone in our nation. You see the areas where there is chaos and anarchy. You see the drug problems we have. If we improve things for men then we will improve things for women. But we won't learn and will still be heading towards massive violence at some point. Why? Because that is the human way throughout history.
 

candycorn

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You are tragically mistaken.

Vocational education does need to be put back in school.

Budget cuts to sports would help make that so. Intramural athletics is as far as sports should be taken. Traveling across the state to play a football game is crazy.
Title IX has hurt.
Not at all
It has taken resources from man's sports which play many vital roles for males and gave them for mostly useless women's sports. most of the money taken in from colleges are from Football and Men's Basketball. We see the resuts with male poverty and violence and don't get it. When midnight basketball was started a couple of decades ago or so in poorer neighborhoods there was a reason. As the poverty rate keeps inching up there will be a blow off point.
wow, That was the dumbest thing ever written.

Seriously...cutting scholarships has resulted in more crime?
There is a difference between men's sports and women's sports. Men live by testosterone and potential violence if conditions are right. Sports is an outlet. Money detoured to women's sports leaves less money for men's sports or activities to tire males. Now there are people who will skewer me for this. And if I had daughters I would understand it from that angle. There is not enough funds to cover and help everyone in our nation. You see the areas where there is chaos and anarchy. You see the drug problems we have. If we improve things for men then we will improve things for women. But we won't learn and will still be heading towards massive violence at some point. Why? Because that is the human way throughout history.
Wow

Amazingly other cultures without Title IX have far less violence.
 

Bleipriester

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If anyone is serious about reducing the prison population the starting point is teaching right from wrong even if you have to drag around religion to do it. There is no right to commit a crime.
The only prison policy is profit. That´s a reason for the large prison population. People without money get harsh punishments that are arranged between judiciary and private prison company.
 

Andylusion

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
But then I feel like, you are rewarding people for bad behavior. Because I have watched documentaries on people who intentionally get sent to prison. In fact, I had a family member who robbed quick-marts, got caught, went to prison, got training, and came out a Union pipefitter making good money.

Now you can say "See that's proof it works"... but I can't help but think... did we just punish victims to reward criminals? The very people this guy was pointing a gun at, paid the taxes so this guy could get free training, and get a middle class income. And think about it... the people he was pointing the gun at were poor people. Or at least they are low-income people.

So we are taxing the people who had a gun shoved in their face, to pay for the criminal to get a middle class income?
Maybe if we had it setup so that people who got out of prison, and earned $30K a year or more, had to pay back the cost of the education.

But to have crime victim people, pay taxes so law breaking people can get a middle class income, while they stay poor....

There is just something morally wrong about this.

And honestly if we're giving them free education, so they don't commit crime.... then something is wrong. That's like legal extortion. That's like a mafia. You need to pay protection money, and then we won't burn down your house.

We have to pay criminals to keep them from being criminal? Terrible.

If we can't ever trust a criminal to not commit crime out of prison, then he should never leave prison.

It's that simple. And I don't buy this idea that you get out of prison, and it is impossible to find work. You can find work. It may not be great work, or high pay work, but you can find work.

You can get a job a McDonald's. I know people who have done it. You can get promoted at McDonald's. I know people with convictions, that are in management.

There are programs for ex-convicts, with free training from charities, and job placement.

Not saying it's easy, or that it won't be a struggle. But I don't know anyone anywhere, that never had to struggle. And yes, it is more of a struggle for an ex-convict, and it should be. That's why you don't commit crime.
 

22lcidw

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Title IX has hurt.
Not at all
It has taken resources from man's sports which play many vital roles for males and gave them for mostly useless women's sports. most of the money taken in from colleges are from Football and Men's Basketball. We see the resuts with male poverty and violence and don't get it. When midnight basketball was started a couple of decades ago or so in poorer neighborhoods there was a reason. As the poverty rate keeps inching up there will be a blow off point.
wow, That was the dumbest thing ever written.

Seriously...cutting scholarships has resulted in more crime?
There is a difference between men's sports and women's sports. Men live by testosterone and potential violence if conditions are right. Sports is an outlet. Money detoured to women's sports leaves less money for men's sports or activities to tire males. Now there are people who will skewer me for this. And if I had daughters I would understand it from that angle. There is not enough funds to cover and help everyone in our nation. You see the areas where there is chaos and anarchy. You see the drug problems we have. If we improve things for men then we will improve things for women. But we won't learn and will still be heading towards massive violence at some point. Why? Because that is the human way throughout history.
Wow

Amazingly other cultures without Title IX have far less violence.
Perhaps we tolerate it.
 

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