Debate Now What should be the goal of our prison system?

[gallantwarrior]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

The entire system needs overhauling.

All prosecutors should be required to spend every third year of their career as a public defender all the way up to the district attorney’s office. The poor get little defense in the current system.

Sentencing needs to be retroactively corrected.
Amber Guyger got 10 years after being convicted of murder. Paul Cullen...also a Texan...got 9 years. He poisoned a tree in Austin. Some in prison for lengthy sentences were not convicted of violent crimes while those who were got lesser sentences.

Rehabilitation is a joke for the most part. A 5 y/o knows the difference between right and wrong. No need for rehab. Job training is given free of charge to criminals but not civilians and the result is more people in prison than ever before—or close to it anyway.

If you do want to do rehab training, do it during the 6 months before parole hearings. As with all training, it gets stale when not used.

Job training used to be incorporated in schools in "shop" classes. School clubs included those that valued and enhanced hands-on, practical subjects. Now, public school funds are expended on "inclusive" indoctrination about homosexuality and other social issues that parents used to teach children. Unfortunately, parental values are too often in conflict with the liberal narrative, which is taught in public schools. Dealing with limited funding, our liberal masters would rather waste money insuring that the proper pronouns are applied to the mentally deranged than teaching children useful life skills.

 

[candycorn]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

The entire system needs overhauling.

All prosecutors should be required to spend every third year of their career as a public defender all the way up to the district attorney’s office. The poor get little defense in the current system.

Sentencing needs to be retroactively corrected.
Amber Guyger got 10 years after being convicted of murder. Paul Cullen...also a Texan...got 9 years. He poisoned a tree in Austin. Some in prison for lengthy sentences were not convicted of violent crimes while those who were got lesser sentences.

Rehabilitation is a joke for the most part. A 5 y/o knows the difference between right and wrong. No need for rehab. Job training is given free of charge to criminals but not civilians and the result is more people in prison than ever before—or close to it anyway.

If you do want to do rehab training, do it during the 6 months before parole hearings. As with all training, it gets stale when not used.

Job training used to be incorporated in schools in "shop" classes. School clubs included those that valued and enhanced hands-on, practical subjects. Now, public school funds are expended on "inclusive" indoctrination about homosexuality and other social issues that parents used to teach children. Unfortunately, parental values are too often in conflict with the liberal narrative, which is taught in public schools. Dealing with limited funding, our liberal masters would rather waste money insuring that the proper pronouns are applied to the mentally deranged than teaching children useful life skills.

You are tragically mistaken.

Vocational education does need to be put back in school.

Budget cuts to sports would help make that so. Intramural athletics is as far as sports should be taken. Traveling across the state to play a football game is crazy.

 

[Likkmee]

I recall three choices
Job corps
Vietnam
Cell time ( bone spur schtuff)

 

[gallantwarrior]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

The entire system needs overhauling.

All prosecutors should be required to spend every third year of their career as a public defender all the way up to the district attorney’s office. The poor get little defense in the current system.

Sentencing needs to be retroactively corrected.
Amber Guyger got 10 years after being convicted of murder. Paul Cullen...also a Texan...got 9 years. He poisoned a tree in Austin. Some in prison for lengthy sentences were not convicted of violent crimes while those who were got lesser sentences.

Rehabilitation is a joke for the most part. A 5 y/o knows the difference between right and wrong. No need for rehab. Job training is given free of charge to criminals but not civilians and the result is more people in prison than ever before—or close to it anyway.

If you do want to do rehab training, do it during the 6 months before parole hearings. As with all training, it gets stale when not used.

Job training used to be incorporated in schools in "shop" classes. School clubs included those that valued and enhanced hands-on, practical subjects. Now, public school funds are expended on "inclusive" indoctrination about homosexuality and other social issues that parents used to teach children. Unfortunately, parental values are too often in conflict with the liberal narrative, which is taught in public schools. Dealing with limited funding, our liberal masters would rather waste money insuring that the proper pronouns are applied to the mentally deranged than teaching children useful life skills.

You are tragically mistaken.

Vocational education does need to be put back in school.

Budget cuts to sports would help make that so. Intramural athletics is as far as sports should be taken. Traveling across the state to play a football game is crazy.

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

The entire system needs overhauling.

All prosecutors should be required to spend every third year of their career as a public defender all the way up to the district attorney’s office. The poor get little defense in the current system.

Sentencing needs to be retroactively corrected.
Amber Guyger got 10 years after being convicted of murder. Paul Cullen...also a Texan...got 9 years. He poisoned a tree in Austin. Some in prison for lengthy sentences were not convicted of violent crimes while those who were got lesser sentences.

Rehabilitation is a joke for the most part. A 5 y/o knows the difference between right and wrong. No need for rehab. Job training is given free of charge to criminals but not civilians and the result is more people in prison than ever before—or close to it anyway.

If you do want to do rehab training, do it during the 6 months before parole hearings. As with all training, it gets stale when not used.

Job training used to be incorporated in schools in "shop" classes. School clubs included those that valued and enhanced hands-on, practical subjects. Now, public school funds are expended on "inclusive" indoctrination about homosexuality and other social issues that parents used to teach children. Unfortunately, parental values are too often in conflict with the liberal narrative, which is taught in public schools. Dealing with limited funding, our liberal masters would rather waste money insuring that the proper pronouns are applied to the mentally deranged than teaching children useful life skills.

You are tragically mistaken.

Vocational education does need to be put back in school.

Budget cuts to sports would help make that so. Intramural athletics is as far as sports should be taken. Traveling across the state to play a football game is crazy.

I am not mistaken. I do agree with you about sports, though. Way too much value is placed on sports activities as opposed to academic achievement. I would like to see more vocational training and less elite sports.

 

[22lcidw]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

The entire system needs overhauling.

All prosecutors should be required to spend every third year of their career as a public defender all the way up to the district attorney’s office. The poor get little defense in the current system.

Sentencing needs to be retroactively corrected.
Amber Guyger got 10 years after being convicted of murder. Paul Cullen...also a Texan...got 9 years. He poisoned a tree in Austin. Some in prison for lengthy sentences were not convicted of violent crimes while those who were got lesser sentences.

Rehabilitation is a joke for the most part. A 5 y/o knows the difference between right and wrong. No need for rehab. Job training is given free of charge to criminals but not civilians and the result is more people in prison than ever before—or close to it anyway.

If you do want to do rehab training, do it during the 6 months before parole hearings. As with all training, it gets stale when not used.

Job training used to be incorporated in schools in "shop" classes. School clubs included those that valued and enhanced hands-on, practical subjects. Now, public school funds are expended on "inclusive" indoctrination about homosexuality and other social issues that parents used to teach children. Unfortunately, parental values are too often in conflict with the liberal narrative, which is taught in public schools. Dealing with limited funding, our liberal masters would rather waste money insuring that the proper pronouns are applied to the mentally deranged than teaching children useful life skills.

You are tragically mistaken.

Vocational education does need to be put back in school.

Budget cuts to sports would help make that so. Intramural athletics is as far as sports should be taken. Traveling across the state to play a football game is crazy.

Title IX has hurt.

 

[CWayne]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

I'm a big believer in some kind of rehab. There are questions and issues regarding this.

If a person could not be educated when they were not incarcerated, how do you motivate them to at least try when they are? You said it yourself, you took it just to get out of the cell. I've no experience with being an inmate but it strikes me that the people in jail are already players and will play any system you throw at them.

Having said that;

I think a combination of education and vocational training would be the ticket. Here is the thing, they owe us for their bad behavior.

So, any and all vocational training should be done that directly benefits society. Paving roads, building bridges, maintaining parks, clearing debris in forests (that would help cut down on out of control fires), etc.

There is a lot of infrastructure in every state that needs bodies and all of these projects require skills in the trades.

Why not kill two birds with that one stone.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

I'm a big believer in some kind of rehab. There are questions and issues regarding this.

If a person could not be educated when they were not incarcerated, how do you motivate them to at least try when they are? You said it yourself, you took it just to get out of the cell. I've no experience with being an inmate but it strikes me that the people in jail are already players and will play any system you throw at them.

Having said that;

I think a combination of education and vocational training would be the ticket. Here is the thing, they owe us for their bad behavior.

So, any and all vocational training should be done that directly benefits society. Paving roads, building bridges, maintaining parks, clearing debris in forests (that would help cut down on out of control fires), etc.

There is a lot of infrastructure in every state that needs bodies and all of these projects require skills in the trades.

Why not kill two birds with that one stone.

Well there really is no way to teach heavy machinery operation in prison.

All of the out buildings we built in prison were sold to the public and the money went to the state.

 

[CWayne]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

I'm a big believer in some kind of rehab. There are questions and issues regarding this.

If a person could not be educated when they were not incarcerated, how do you motivate them to at least try when they are? You said it yourself, you took it just to get out of the cell. I've no experience with being an inmate but it strikes me that the people in jail are already players and will play any system you throw at them.

Having said that;

I think a combination of education and vocational training would be the ticket. Here is the thing, they owe us for their bad behavior.

So, any and all vocational training should be done that directly benefits society. Paving roads, building bridges, maintaining parks, clearing debris in forests (that would help cut down on out of control fires), etc.

There is a lot of infrastructure in every state that needs bodies and all of these projects require skills in the trades.

Why not kill two birds with that one stone.

Well there really is no way to teach heavy machinery operation in prison.

All of the out buildings we built in prison were sold to the public and the money went to the state.

So, teaching heavy equipment just requires some open spaces. Dig a hole, fill it back in.

Either way, if we are serious about giving them skills that will make them productive members of society, we need to provide for it.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

I'm a big believer in some kind of rehab. There are questions and issues regarding this.

If a person could not be educated when they were not incarcerated, how do you motivate them to at least try when they are? You said it yourself, you took it just to get out of the cell. I've no experience with being an inmate but it strikes me that the people in jail are already players and will play any system you throw at them.

Having said that;

I think a combination of education and vocational training would be the ticket. Here is the thing, they owe us for their bad behavior.

So, any and all vocational training should be done that directly benefits society. Paving roads, building bridges, maintaining parks, clearing debris in forests (that would help cut down on out of control fires), etc.

There is a lot of infrastructure in every state that needs bodies and all of these projects require skills in the trades.

Why not kill two birds with that one stone.

Well there really is no way to teach heavy machinery operation in prison.

All of the out buildings we built in prison were sold to the public and the money went to the state.

So, teaching heavy equipment just requires some open spaces. Dig a hole, fill it back in.

Either way, if we are serious about giving them skills that will make them productive members of society, we need to provide for it.

Most prisons do not have that kind of space.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

As a former criminal defense attorney I spent more than 30 years with all manner of criminals of all ages and backgrounds. I have watched the nature of criminals change. Very few can be helped. The purpose of prison is to keep the criminal from committing his next crime for as long as possible.

The major change in criminal behavior started more than 20 years ago. I knew then that if things did not change this was a terminal disease. Criminals do not believe that what they are doing is wrong. They accept responsibility for the act but believe the act is justified. Black men especially are convinced that whatever they do is justified. A rapist and murderer has done nothing wrong. Wasn't Emmett Till hanged for nothing? It's okay to steal if you prefer not to pay. I got rights is the most common phrase.

Because there is this pervasive misunderstanding of rights inmates with very few exceptions cannot be rehabilitated. They are fine. Rehab the rest of the world. Just give them free drugs, food and an occasional live or dead sex partner and they are fine.

Just lock them up.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

I'm a big believer in some kind of rehab. There are questions and issues regarding this.

If a person could not be educated when they were not incarcerated, how do you motivate them to at least try when they are? You said it yourself, you took it just to get out of the cell. I've no experience with being an inmate but it strikes me that the people in jail are already players and will play any system you throw at them.

Having said that;

I think a combination of education and vocational training would be the ticket. Here is the thing, they owe us for their bad behavior.

So, any and all vocational training should be done that directly benefits society. Paving roads, building bridges, maintaining parks, clearing debris in forests (that would help cut down on out of control fires), etc.

There is a lot of infrastructure in every state that needs bodies and all of these projects require skills in the trades.

Why not kill two birds with that one stone.

Well there really is no way to teach heavy machinery operation in prison.

All of the out buildings we built in prison were sold to the public and the money went to the state.

So, teaching heavy equipment just requires some open spaces. Dig a hole, fill it back in.

Either way, if we are serious about giving them skills that will make them productive members of society, we need to provide for it.

There was a time when teaching a skill did make an ex con a productive member of society. Not so much anymore. It's a skill that would never be used. Some have several skills. The son of a very good friend of mine had a stretch of vocational training in plumbing. Another stretch taught him welding. He was still a low level drug dealer. He and his mother, my friend, ended up in her living room with their heads blown off. Drug deal gone bad. No one would force him to work.

 

[CWayne]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

I'm a big believer in some kind of rehab. There are questions and issues regarding this.

If a person could not be educated when they were not incarcerated, how do you motivate them to at least try when they are? You said it yourself, you took it just to get out of the cell. I've no experience with being an inmate but it strikes me that the people in jail are already players and will play any system you throw at them.

Having said that;

I think a combination of education and vocational training would be the ticket. Here is the thing, they owe us for their bad behavior.

So, any and all vocational training should be done that directly benefits society. Paving roads, building bridges, maintaining parks, clearing debris in forests (that would help cut down on out of control fires), etc.

There is a lot of infrastructure in every state that needs bodies and all of these projects require skills in the trades.

Why not kill two birds with that one stone.

Well there really is no way to teach heavy machinery operation in prison.

All of the out buildings we built in prison were sold to the public and the money went to the state.

So, teaching heavy equipment just requires some open spaces. Dig a hole, fill it back in.

Either way, if we are serious about giving them skills that will make them productive members of society, we need to provide for it.

There was a time when teaching a skill did make an ex con a productive member of society. Not so much anymore. It's a skill that would never be used. Some have several skills. The son of a very good friend of mine had a stretch of vocational training in plumbing. Another stretch taught him welding. He was still a low level drug dealer. He and his mother, my friend, ended up in her living room with their heads blown off. Drug deal gone bad. No one would force him to work.

Yep, there are issues.

 

[White 6]

As a former criminal defense attorney I spent more than 30 years with all manner of criminals of all ages and backgrounds. I have watched the nature of criminals change. Very few can be helped. The purpose of prison is to keep the criminal from committing his next crime for as long as possible.

The major change in criminal behavior started more than 20 years ago. I knew then that if things did not change this was a terminal disease. Criminals do not believe that what they are doing is wrong. They accept responsibility for the act but believe the act is justified. Black men especially are convinced that whatever they do is justified. A rapist and murderer has done nothing wrong. Wasn't Emmett Till hanged for nothing? It's okay to steal if you prefer not to pay. I got rights is the most common phrase.

Because there is this pervasive misunderstanding of rights inmates with very few exceptions cannot be rehabilitated. They are fine. Rehab the rest of the world. Just give them free drugs, food and an occasional live or dead sex partner and they are fine.

Just lock them up.

I understand what you are saying and you may be correct. I could not just post an agree check mark on a subject this serious as that would feel chicken $h!t to go on record. If talking about the second time up, I there with you. First time, some attempt at reclamation should be made. Instead of separate cell blocks, completely separate prisons for first offenders, where more intensive effort be made with educational, trade, counseling. I don't know, but if it became clear no progress being made, transfer to the main prison sentence and written off, keeping the rest of society safe from their predatory natures as long as possible. I will interject, white collar and especially government related white collar criminals should be sent down to general population in prisons the rest of us avoid thinking about.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

If anyone is serious about reducing the prison population the starting point is teaching right from wrong even if you have to drag around religion to do it. There is no right to commit a crime.

 

[Coyote]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

Great post, great topic!

IMO - the goal of prison is - reformation, and protecting the public. There is an element of "hard time" anyway - losing your freedom is in and of itself "hard punishment".

But it's not good just punishing if they haven't the tools to get back on their feet in society on release. I agree with you on recidivism. I strongly support prison programs that educate, teach vocational skills, even common living skills like how to handle a job interview or balance your check book or be a good father. The goal should be to not have them return (kind of like a hospital - you don't want constant readmissions) and that takes a team approach. But there are always those who can never safely be released, ever.

 

[Coyote]

Lethal injection to all felons.
A purge, if you will.

Well crap - you want to murder Gramps?

 

[candycorn]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

The entire system needs overhauling.

All prosecutors should be required to spend every third year of their career as a public defender all the way up to the district attorney’s office. The poor get little defense in the current system.

Sentencing needs to be retroactively corrected.
Amber Guyger got 10 years after being convicted of murder. Paul Cullen...also a Texan...got 9 years. He poisoned a tree in Austin. Some in prison for lengthy sentences were not convicted of violent crimes while those who were got lesser sentences.

Rehabilitation is a joke for the most part. A 5 y/o knows the difference between right and wrong. No need for rehab. Job training is given free of charge to criminals but not civilians and the result is more people in prison than ever before—or close to it anyway.

If you do want to do rehab training, do it during the 6 months before parole hearings. As with all training, it gets stale when not used.

Job training used to be incorporated in schools in "shop" classes. School clubs included those that valued and enhanced hands-on, practical subjects. Now, public school funds are expended on "inclusive" indoctrination about homosexuality and other social issues that parents used to teach children. Unfortunately, parental values are too often in conflict with the liberal narrative, which is taught in public schools. Dealing with limited funding, our liberal masters would rather waste money insuring that the proper pronouns are applied to the mentally deranged than teaching children useful life skills.

You are tragically mistaken.

Vocational education does need to be put back in school.

Budget cuts to sports would help make that so. Intramural athletics is as far as sports should be taken. Traveling across the state to play a football game is crazy.

Title IX has hurt.

Not at all

 

[TNHarley]

Lethal injection to all felons.
A purge, if you will.

Well crap - you want to murder Gramps?

All felons must die. Its for the good of the country. And our children!

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

 

[Disir]

So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!

You're ok in my book.

Bail should be determined on public safety, the current offenses, open cases, criminal history and history of failure to appear and, if any of those are in play, left to the discretion of the judge. ALWAYS. What that looks like can be very different from one state to another. There are states that use risk assessment tools that specifically ignore the above and are trying to apply a cookie cutter approach. That's an issue.

Violent criminals are released, too. There are a plethora of programs that are offered in most states for those exiting prison for job placement, housing etc. and for some of them you can access them for up to 6 months after release. That decision is not forced on anyone to make. That's why they keep it open.

Some states have phenomenal access to learning a trade while in prison. Some do rather poorly. There was a law that came out in the 70s that allowed corporations to use prison labor under the guise of teaching a trade. Bill Gates used prison labor to plastic wrap Microsoft products. There was a state recently that took every cent one guy made while in prison from him to pay for room and board.

Even access to college is an issue when it comes to something as benign as Pell Grants. It's hard to argue against people who are on the outside being denied access while it is going to those on the inside. There is a waiting list in prisons in the state that I currently live in for GED classes. They exist.

There are good folks that have mental health problems but can't access psych medication after release or seek medical care after release. Not different from the number of people that can't access medication or seek medical care without ever having to go to prison.