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Debate Now What should be the goal of our prison system?

What say you?

  • Reformation

    Votes: 4 18.2%
  • Hard time

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • A mix of both

    Votes: 11 50.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 18.2%

  • Total voters
    22

Grampa Murked U

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
 

bluzman61

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
Nice post, Grampa, thanks.
 
OP
Grampa Murked U

Grampa Murked U

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
Nice post, Grampa, thanks.
Any opinion on the subject?
 

bluzman61

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
Nice post, Grampa, thanks.
Any opinion on the subject?
I agree with everything you posted in your opening to your thread. I believe there should be a mix of reformation and hard time, depending of course, on the severity of the crime(s) the person has been incarcerated for.
 

Crepitus

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
Good post.

The goal should be to equip these people with the tools they need to function in society.

Our prison system currently is not equipped to do that.

Sadly I don't know the whoops answer.

Education should certainly be a part, not just "readin' writin' and 'rithmatic" but social education and coping skills as well. A trade is a necessity as well. They also could use job placement and a support network.

Obviously all.of them can't be rehabilitated. Serial killers shouldn't be released for instance.

My ¢.02.
 

EvilEyeFleegle

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
You're cool...LOL! I'm reminded of the scene where Richard Pryor tells Gene Wilder to "Act cool" in Stir Crazy..when Gene asks why.... Richard replies, "so they don't f'k you!"!

Crime and punishment. Tough subject. First, I think you need to separate the mentally ill from the issue. Our prisons serve as ad hoc warehouses for those that society chooses not to spend money on...as regards mental health services. It is no accident that prison populations went up when the funding for mental health went down..especially in those cases where an inpatient setting was required.

Then there is the punitive aspect..that society demands. Make a prison too comfortable..too safe--and it doesn't seem like all that much of a disincentive, now does it?

Is the goal to provide society with its 'pound of flesh'? Or...is the goal to prevent recidivism? Hard time hardens--and deepens the antipathy twixt individual and society. Add the extreme difficulty many ex-convicts deal with--and it would seem to me that the counter-intuitional approach is called for...to give people a sense of self-worth..one must treat them as though they are worth something, right? I would ask the heretical question..is punishment...as a goal---even a real part of the discussion? Broken people thrive on punishment...it reinforces their sense of victim-hood...and allows them to commit continued crimes--and bask in their self-justification.

Better to fix the person..if possible.
Often, it is not. Money..and our sense of outrage..stand in the way.

Then..there is the economic/racial component of the problem. The substance abuse issues. The very real fact that in many areas..prison is an industry..providing both jobs and a sense of superiority to folks who have limited skills of their own. Crime is big business...I have a friend who opened a substance abuse testing company...he is a millionaire from testing that parolee piss. California's largest and most influential union is the Correctional Officers Union..how do you think they would take a proposed massive down-turn in prison population?

I think...that in most prisons..the tools exist for someone to rise up...and reforge themselves. It's the culture that stands in the way. The prison culture..and our popular culture. I've often heard complaining about providing convicts with college...why should they get to make that step up..at our expense? The thought that it might prevent crime really does not register with those sort...they don't care.....they just want more time....and more punishment--not seeing that that's just a way to kick the can...and the thought that a crime might have been uncommitted..is too elusive for them to internalize.
 

miketx

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As a person from the other side of the fence I think they should do hard time for violent crime and property crimes but they should have a chance to get some training in prison for when they get out. The prison I worked at had schools they could attend and jobs they could get inside as well. Also, the leniency the correctional officers are forced to apply to convicts who don't conform is directly rooted in the unwarranted violence done to convicts in the past. I do not condone hurting a convict because they use bad language toward you but wholeheartedly agree with bashing their heads in when they become violent. Killers and child molesters should never be released and most should be killed. The thing that was surprising to me was that after a while there were more convicts I would have chosen to work with than correctional officers. Plus the revolving door should be closed. Stop repeatedly letting violent criminals go free.
 
Last edited:

there4eyeM

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We know enough about psychology to make changes. Honesty, courage and vision are lacking.
 

TNHarley

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Lethal injection to all felons.
A purge, if you will.
 

waltky

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Uncle Ferd says...

... a nice firm bottom...

... for female inmates.
 

Syriusly

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
I can't disagree with what you posted. I think that the goals of prison should be to reduce crime. Those in prison are not going to be able to commit as many crimes as when they are out- but just jailing every criminal for life is neither feasible or in my opinion moral.

So the second goal should be preventing recidivism. I like your basic idea. I have heard- and maybe you know more about this- that large numbers of inmates cannot in practical terms read- I think reading comprehension should be part of it.

I am sure we have examples in the U.S. and other places where prisons have less recidivism than most- lets go with what actually works.
 

gallantwarrior

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
It would depend upon the crime and the perpetrator. Some crimes warrant nothing less than cage them like the anti-social animals they are and throw away the key. This depends not just on the crime but upon the attitude/personality of the criminal.
Some people are incarcerated for errors they have made and are held responsible for. Training might also be a consideration, again taking the individual into consideration.
There should also definitely be a separation between hard-core criminals and those whose lesser offenses do not warrant being caged like animals.
 
OP
Grampa Murked U

Grampa Murked U

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
I can't disagree with what you posted. I think that the goals of prison should be to reduce crime. Those in prison are not going to be able to commit as many crimes as when they are out- but just jailing every criminal for life is neither feasible or in my opinion moral.

So the second goal should be preventing recidivism. I like your basic idea. I have heard- and maybe you know more about this- that large numbers of inmates cannot in practical terms read- I think reading comprehension should be part of it.

I am sure we have examples in the U.S. and other places where prisons have less recidivism than most- lets go with what actually works.
Reading may very well be an issue but I can't attest to that personally. Everyone I was around in there could read as far as I knew. But you're right, that is important. Aptitude tests perhaps?
 
OP
Grampa Murked U

Grampa Murked U

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There should also definitely be a separation between hard-core criminals and those whose lesser offenses do not warrant being caged like animals.
where I was there were different cellblocks for different types but I don't remember how it was broke down. All the cells were generally the same. They do have institutions for non violent offenders but the prison population is so overwhelmed that they all just kind of blend together in the max prisons.
Course that may very from state to state.
 

gallantwarrior

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There should also definitely be a separation between hard-core criminals and those whose lesser offenses do not warrant being caged like animals.
where I was there were different cellblocks for different types but I don't remember how it was broke down. All the cells were generally the same. They do have institutions for non violent offenders but the prison population is so overwhelmed that they all just kind of blend together in the max prisons.
Course that may very from state to state.
My brother just finished his three times you're out last term. He learned a couple of trade skills and is now employed as a stone cutter. Personally, I could never see myself living in a cage like prisons are. Maybe more "hard" time for youthful offenders?
I did teach at a local youth program just after I retired from the military. It is run like a military boot camp and most participants are referred by the local juvenile facility. Some are referred by their parents. After finishing they have a high school degree and the recidivism rate is low. Many of these kids return as mentors for the next iteration. Maybe offering something like this to youthful offenders could help decrease adult incarceration rates?
 

candycorn

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
The entire system needs overhauling.

All prosecutors should be required to spend every third year of their career as a public defender all the way up to the district attorney’s office. The poor get little defense in the current system.

Sentencing needs to be retroactively corrected.
Amber Guyger got 10 years after being convicted of murder. Paul Cullen...also a Texan...got 9 years. He poisoned a tree in Austin. Some in prison for lengthy sentences were not convicted of violent crimes while those who were got lesser sentences.

Rehabilitation is a joke for the most part. A 5 y/o knows the difference between right and wrong. No need for rehab. Job training is given free of charge to criminals but not civilians and the result is more people in prison than ever before—or close to it anyway.

If you do want to do rehab training, do it during the 6 months before parole hearings. As with all training, it gets stale when not used.
 

martybegan

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
The core goal of a Prison is to keep certain people out of society who have shown by their actions that they can't play by the rules of that society.

The core goal of a State Criminal Justice System is to create a monopoly on the ability to judge a person for their actions against the social system, taking it out of the hands of the actual victims by assuming that society as a whole is the victim of said crime, and thus society should determine the punishment.
 

Mr Clean

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To remove undesirables and those who can’t behave in a civilized manner from bothering the rest of us.
 

22lcidw

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So as you all know I speak from a bit of experience but I see what I consider crazy posts on the subject all the time.

For those that don't know I was sentenced to 5 to 15 at the age of 16. I was all about ME and as a result all the group homes and foster homes couldn't save me. So let's get to the point...

There seem to be two different mindsets to felons and imo BOTH are wrong. Some say "throw away the key's " while others say "no bail"

Well i can speak somewhat to the no bail position. My grandmother bailed me out time after time and all it achieved what to deepen my boldness because i considered myself untouchable. She wasn't a bad woman, she just blindly loved me. Basically she played the role of a bleeding heart liberal with their no bail bullshit.
The flipside to that is the people that think simply locking people up and forgetting about them solves the problem.

Recividisom is a major problem in the prison population. You lock a man up and hold him in a hole for years. Then suddenly he gets his freedom and just like before he went in he has no tools to cope with society. He's kicked into a halfway house for 30 days and then suddenly, after years of being treated like a dog in a kennel, is expected to function in society. No one will hire him except the people who want the tax credits available to them. Those same employers abuse the employees under the threat of "reporting them"

Imo every convict that isn't convicted of violent crimes should be offered basic educational classes and should be REQUIRED to finish a trade school vocation before being eligible for release.
When I was in prison vocational education was an option and not required. I took it to get the fuck out of my cell and that was the only reason. That vocation that i used for a sense of freedom is likely the only reason i am free today.

We have to "arm" convicts with the skills to succeed. Or we can simply lock them up and hope to God they dont become our or our children's neighbors when they get out.



/blog

My first attempt at a not troll debate in this forum.
I read that I'm supposed to make three rules but I have no idea what that means?
No insults
No partisan bs
Tell me I'm cool


Yeah, I like those three rules.....GO!
Nice post, Grampa, thanks.
Any opinion on the subject?
There are some who believe that putting a man into prison for doing drugs is not the right thing to do. Now there may be recidivism when he leaves and if he went to jail because he robbed a place to support his habit there is something extra to justify his arrest. Some have suggested that we convert some prisons to forced drug rehab centers with a locked up presence for drug offenders. They would be given total treatment and education and whatever else for the time they are in and as a bonus would be separated from the general prison population also which may affect them. Their records would be cleaned and about recidivism, we do not know because we never went there. But I would say that patience would eventually wear out on an individual if chance after chance were given and no improvement seen. Just an idea that was actually spouted by a libertarian that I heard some years ago.
 

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