What Is Wrong With America ?

[dcraelin]

sales taxes can be elluded especially on private sales

Private sales will by their nature be of second hand, smaller items. 46 states have sales tax, all of them rake in huge sums.

your overstating the case on direct taxes, a corrupt official can do a lot of things.

Direct tax is corrupt 100% of the time, none so much as "income tax." We have volumes running into hundreds of thousands of pages to deal with income taxe. Why? To cover the thousands of exemptions that have been sold over the years.

sales & use taxes are regressive. Sales taxes can and often do violate the principle of "no taxation without representation"

Bullshit.

Sales and use taxes are blind, thus completely fair. You buy, you pay - end of story.

"100% of the time"...THAT is bullshit. There are problems with exemptions but that is largely due to the influence of special interests on tax policy

sales taxes often violate the revolutionary motto "no taxation without representation"

 

[RKMBrown]

Your post is a mess. Clean it up, and then I'll respond to your questions.

PS- do you know how to use the post system ? If not, check with the moderators for tips.

No. >> is a traditional way to cite statements from the person you are replying to in threads, emails, and all other electronic and non-electronic communications. Get over yourself ass hole.

YOU are the "asshole" who can't get through a post without botching it all up.

Dumb ass.

 

[P@triot]

You can toss out all the stats you like, but from whom are they derived ? Answer ? The same govt of rich people that I critiqued in the OP. So you're referring to a group of rich people to ask a question about rich people. Cool. Thta's about like asking the honchos of General Motors which is better > a Cadillac or a Lincoln ?

In the days of the old Soviet Union, the govt's "statistics there used to say it was a socialist country with an equal distribution of wealth. Only problem was the members of the Communist Party living in mansions and riding around in limousines, while millions of people were standing on bread lines. And in America ? No county's gap between he rich and the poor is greater the in the, and the US gap is greater than it ever as been since records have been kept, now surpassing the old largest gap (1927)

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2009/8/19/saupload_rich_us.png

PS - if anyone's wondering what we might call this upward surge on the graph since 1980, it could be called "the Reagan era".

In other words, even CBO statistics (which both the Republicans and the Dumbocrats are on record as stating are very accurate and unbiased) are "fake" in your mind. In fact, everything in your mind are lies and somehow you are the lone "enlightened" one who we should all follow.

Tell us junior, if "stats" are all "derived" from "the same govt of rich people" who you "critiqued in the OP" - where do you get your information that taxes are too low on the wealthy?

Do you realize what a tool you are now? You've literally painted yourself into a corner with this ignorant post. If we can't trust "stats", then whatever you say is irrelevant if you back it up with anything. And if you have nothing to back up what you say, then whatever you say is even more irrelevant and is not formed from any basis in reality. So either way, you just made your own opinion uninformed and worthless (because if your opinion is informed, whatever sources you used were "derived" from evil people who can't be trusted).

1. Reported for Age discrimination/harassment

Uh, what? What the hell are you talking about? To discriminate against you, I have to hold some power over you. What power do I hold over you, junior? And clearly, site mods are laughing at you because I was not notified of any violations!

2. I don't give a rat's ass what Republican and Democrats say. I'm an Independent, and both Rs & Ds are tools of the super rich.

You're not an "independent" junior - you're a ****'n greedy marxist parasite. You're so far left you make Clinton look like a Tea Party conservative.

3. "where do you get your information that taxes are too low on the wealthy?" >>> Here's one place (among others) >> http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html]National Taxpayers Union - History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates[/SIZE]

You can toss out all the stats you like junior, but from whom are they derived? Answer? The same government parasites that I critiqued in my OP. So you're referring to a group of parasites to ask a question about parasites. Cool. That's about like asking the honchos of General Motors which is better > a Cadillac or a Lincoln?

4. HA HA. Nice try, if only it made sense. We can trust stats if/whenever they conform to reality that we see all around us. I already explained that in my Soviet Union example, in a recent post. Try to keep up.

So first junior ignorantly states that information, links, articles, and statics cannot be trusted because they are "made" by "wealthy" people - and wealthy people are apparently untrustworthy in his mind. When I point out then that this absurd statement means he is either ignorant (because he avoids information) or he can't back up his position (because whatever source he uses for information cannot be trusted) - he suddenly changes his narrative and states "we can trust stats if they conform" (interesting choice of words - sounds like a communist propagandist to me) "to reality that we see all around us".

Well junior, the facts I posted come from the CBO and completely match "the reality" I see all around me. I've seen my tax bill and it is outrageous. Meanwhile, parasites like you pay little or no taxes. So you're first narrative painted you into a corner and humiliated you. You're second narrative - which reversed course completely on your first narrative - simply proves that I was right to begin with.

So now that you've admitted your ignorant (and you try to justify your ignorance by claiming all information and statistics are falsified), and you've admitted to being a hypocrite by contradicting yourself when posting a link after claiming links can't be trusted, what else do you have for us junior?

The facts are, the wealthy are taxed to death while parasites like you enjoy a free ride. It's time you parasites have your taxes increased significantly to pay for all the benefits and perks that are used by parasites like you and not used by the wealthy.

 

[American4Americ]

you

 

[bayoubill]

Please be brief. I will briefly state that there probably are 100 things (or more) wrong with America, but I will state just one for now >>

America is too much run by rich people. Members of Congress, the President and Vice-President, and members of the Supreme Court are generally all rich people. What do they know about middle class, lower middle class, and poor people's lives ? How can they make decisions about things they have no experience with, or have long forgotten from years past ? When have these people ever been unemployed, and out looking for a job, with a wide variety of things being used against them ? (credit reports, smear talk from former employers often untrue, etc). The last time I applied for a job I was told I would never get hired because employers require RECENT employment in that job occupation (within last 2 years). There's probably a long list of ways people can be denied a job, that shouldn't exist, and don't make sense.

You're absolutely right...

we should simply take the top 5% of Americans (who incidentally pay more'n 60% of the tax burden), and summarily execute 'em...

yeah, sure... economically, it'd **** the country up, probably beyond recovery... but at least we'd have had the satisfaction of seeing the fat cats get offed...

 

[Avatar4321]

Many of them who own businesses do. Every day. Nothing new about that.

So paying someone what the two of you have voluntarily agreed to for the work they've performed is theft, but using force to take money from people and spend it how you please in the name of goverment isn't?

You do realize that is delusional, right?

How delusional is it for you to come in here and make a statement that I have already refuted about 5 times in this thread. (and YOU KNOW IT)

You havent refuted anything. You just repeat your same baseless assertions and pretend that because you've said them again in a new way they are somehow proven. Stop lying to yourself and to others. Stop blaming others for your life's failures and man up.

 

[Avatar4321]

Without having to read that book, could you explain how the author justifies the Federal minimum wage not being adjusted for cost-of-living increases (inflation) since the 1970s?

Why does there need to be a Federal Minimum wage when each state has a different cost of living?

HA HA. Think about it. It should take you 10 seconds to find the answer.

We don't. Wasn't hard at all. But the point wasnt to make me think, but you and others. Unfortunately, I've failed you.

 

[Avatar4321]

No. >> is a traditional way to cite statements from the person you are replying to in threads, emails, and all other electronic and non-electronic communications. Get over yourself ass hole.

YOU are the "asshole" who can't get through a post without botching it all up.

Dumb ass.

You'll have to forgive him. He has the sad afflictoin where he thinks he is right no matter what he says despite what anyone says contrary.

 

[RKMBrown]

Excuse me ding dong, prior to 1965 we had open borders with Canada and Mexico. There were NO problems.

The problem began AFTER LBJ's "War on Poverty" programs.

Ding dong. Your instructor is at the door. Here to educate you about illegal immigration PRIOR TO 1965. IN 1954, illegal immigration was so bad that then President Eisenhower called emergency meetings among top experts to deal with it. The result was Operation *******. .

Wrong again, 0-9

the program came as a result of pressure from the Mexican government to stop illegal entry of Mexican Laborers in the United States based largely on the Bracero Program.

The reality of "Operation *******" wasn't so simple. Eisenhower's sweep was effective because it was mass deportation on the Soviet model, not because it was admirable, let alone fair or, in thousands of cases, legal. Mexicans were especially targeted whether they were legal immigrants or not. Children of Mexican parents, who were American citizens for having been born on American soil, were deported, too".

.

So we should have separated the kids from their parents? What a retard.

 

[protectionist]

sales taxes can be elluded especially on private sales

Private sales will by their nature be of second hand, smaller items. 46 states have sales tax, all of them rake in huge sums.

your overstating the case on direct taxes, a corrupt official can do a lot of things.

Direct tax is corrupt 100% of the time, none so much as "income tax." We have volumes running into hundreds of thousands of pages to deal with income taxe. Why? To cover the thousands of exemptions that have been sold over the years.

sales & use taxes are regressive. Sales taxes can and often do violate the principle of "no taxation without representation"

Bullshit.

Sales and use taxes are blind, thus completely fair. You buy, you pay - end of story.

FALSE! I agree with dcraelin. Generally, sales taxes tend to be regressive. They hit the poor hardest when they are pulling themselves up by their bootstrings and just starting to gain some momentum. This is when they finally are able to buy some new furniture, a TV set, a computer, a guitar, etc. The rich already have all these things. If I was the owner of a home electronics store, who would I rather see get a big tax break ? The rich or the (working) poor ? I'd rather see the working poor get it. They are the ones most likely to come into my store and buy (and pay sales tax)

Also, for what ever spending the rich do engage in, they tend to do a relatively high % of it OUTSIDE THE USA (mostly Europe & the Caribbean). The Poorer class does their spending inside their own local community. In fact, many poor and working class people have never been outside the USA, in their whole lives.

 

[RKMBrown]

sales taxes can be elluded especially on private sales

Private sales will by their nature be of second hand, smaller items. 46 states have sales tax, all of them rake in huge sums.



Direct tax is corrupt 100% of the time, none so much as "income tax." We have volumes running into hundreds of thousands of pages to deal with income taxe. Why? To cover the thousands of exemptions that have been sold over the years.

sales & use taxes are regressive. Sales taxes can and often do violate the principle of "no taxation without representation"

Bullshit.

Sales and use taxes are blind, thus completely fair. You buy, you pay - end of story.

FALSE! I agree with dcraelin. Generally, sales taxes tend to be regressive. They hit the poor hardest when they are pulling themselves up by their bootstrings and just starting to gain some momentum. This is when they finally are able to buy some new furniture, a TV set, a computer, a guitar, etc. The rich already have all these things. If I was the owner of a home electronics store, who would I rather see get a big tax break ? The rich or the (working) poor ? I'd rather see the working poor get it. They are the ones most likely to come into my store and buy (and pay sales tax)

Also, for what ever spending the rich do engage in, they tend to do a relatively high % of it OUTSIDE the USA (mostly Europe & the Caribbean). The Poorer class does their spending inside their own local community. Inf act, many poor and working class people have never been outside the USA in their whole lives.

DUH! Any taxes at all would hit the people who don't otherwise pay taxes. How stupid are you really? But I guess in your fantasy world people should not be responsible for themselves if they are not responsible for themselves. ROFL

 

[protectionist]

Excuse me ding dong, prior to 1965 we had open borders with Canada and Mexico. There were NO problems.

The problem began AFTER LBJ's "War on Poverty" programs.

Ding dong. Your instructor is at the door. Here to educate you about illegal immigration PRIOR TO 1965. IN 1954, illegal immigration was so bad that then President Eisenhower called emergency meetings among top experts to deal with it. The result was Operation *******. .

Wrong again, 0-9

the program came as a result of pressure from the Mexican government to stop illegal entry of Mexican Laborers in the United States based largely on the Bracero Program.

The reality of "Operation *******" wasn't so simple. Eisenhower's sweep was effective because it was mass deportation on the Soviet model, not because it was admirable, let alone fair or, in thousands of cases, legal. Mexicans were especially targeted whether they were legal immigrants or not. Children of Mexican parents, who were American citizens for having been born on American soil, were deported, too".

I didn't read this post for 2 reasons.

1. The print is too large, and bothers my eyes.

2. The content is IDIOCY. There was NOTHING "wrong" with my post, and for you to say it was, only makes your post all the more "wrong". You're sinking even further.

 

[RKMBrown]

Ding dong. Your instructor is at the door. Here to educate you about illegal immigration PRIOR TO 1965. IN 1954, illegal immigration was so bad that then President Eisenhower called emergency meetings among top experts to deal with it. The result was Operation *******. .

Wrong again, 0-9

the program came as a result of pressure from the Mexican government to stop illegal entry of Mexican Laborers in the United States based largely on the Bracero Program.

The reality of "Operation *******" wasn't so simple. Eisenhower's sweep was effective because it was mass deportation on the Soviet model, not because it was admirable, let alone fair or, in thousands of cases, legal. Mexicans were especially targeted whether they were legal immigrants or not. Children of Mexican parents, who were American citizens for having been born on American soil, were deported, too".

I didn't read this post for 2 reasons.

1. The print is too large, and bothers my eyes.

2. The content is IDIOCY. There was NOTHING "wrong" with my post, and for you to say it was, only makes your post all the more "wrong". You're sinking even further.

You can back away from the monitor.

 

[Uncensored2008]

FALSE! I agree with dcraelin.

Of course you do, but you're maybe 14 and lack any founding in the subject.

Generally, sales taxes tend to be regressive.

How do merchants identify poor people to charge them a higher rate?

They hit the poor hardest when they are pulling themselves up by their bootstrings and just starting to gain some momentum.

Buying a loaf of bread hits "da po" harder than the rich. But you don't actually know the meaning of the words that ThinkProgress has programmed you to spew.

Further, what you claim is false. Generally, sales and use taxes are structured in such a way that necessities are exempt. I will use California as example. Food and medicine are exempt.

Lower income families spend a greater percentage of their income on food than do more affluent people. Thus, a greater percentage is tax exempt, creating a PROGRESSIVE effect to the taxation. More affluent people buy more discretionary items, which are taxed, and thus pay a greater share of the taxes. Virtually everything business buys is taxed - since they generally don't buy groceries.

This is when they finally are able to buy some new furniture, a TV set, a computer, a guitar, etc. The rich already have all these things. If I was the owner of a home electronics store, who would I rather see get a big tax break ?

New furniture is a luxury.

You will never own a store of any sort, you lack the mind for it. And what would you like? To take from others and give to yourself, like all leftists.

The rich or the (working) poor ? I'd rather see the working poor get it. They are the ones most likely to come into my store and buy (and pay sales tax)

Also, for what ever spending the rich do engage in, they tend to do a relatively high % of it OUTSIDE THE USA (mostly Europe & the Caribbean). The Poorer class does their spending inside their own local community. In fact, many poor and working class people have never been outside the USA, in their whole lives.

You're an idiot. You smoke a great deal of dope and engage in foolish fantasy, then log on to the leftist hate sites and imagine the bullshit they spew is factual.

 

[protectionist]

Wrong again, 0-9

the program came as a result of pressure from the Mexican government to stop illegal entry of Mexican Laborers in the United States based largely on the Bracero Program.

The reality of "Operation *******" wasn't so simple. Eisenhower's sweep was effective because it was mass deportation on the Soviet model, not because it was admirable, let alone fair or, in thousands of cases, legal. Mexicans were especially targeted whether they were legal immigrants or not. Children of Mexican parents, who were American citizens for having been born on American soil, were deported, too".

I didn't read this post for 2 reasons.

1. The print is too large, and bothers my eyes.

2. The content is IDIOCY. There was NOTHING "wrong" with my post, and for you to say it was, only makes your post all the more "wrong". You're sinking even further.

You can back away from the monitor.

Or I can ignore your stupidity. :eusa_hand :

 

[Avatar4321]

I didn't read this post for 2 reasons.

1. The print is too large, and bothers my eyes.

2. The content is IDIOCY. There was NOTHING "wrong" with my post, and for you to say it was, only makes your post all the more "wrong". You're sinking even further.

You forgot 3: Because you don't want to actually bother discussing the issue. You just want people to blindly accept what you say is truth as truth.

 

[Avatar4321]

How do merchants identify poor people to charge them a higher rate?

I predict he will completely ignore this question or give a non-answer and pretend as though he has refuted it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Or I can ignore your stupidity. :eusa_hand :

Unfortunately, you can't ignore your own.

 

[Contumacious]

Ding dong. Your instructor is at the door. Here to educate you about illegal immigration PRIOR TO 1965. IN 1954, illegal immigration was so bad that then President Eisenhower called emergency meetings among top experts to deal with it. The result was Operation *******. .

Wrong again, 0-9

the program came as a result of pressure from the Mexican government to stop illegal entry of Mexican Laborers in the United States based largely on the Bracero Program.

The reality of "Operation *******" wasn't so simple. Eisenhower's sweep was effective because it was mass deportation on the Soviet model, not because it was admirable, let alone fair or, in thousands of cases, legal. Mexicans were especially targeted whether they were legal immigrants or not. Children of Mexican parents, who were American citizens for having been born on American soil, were deported, too".

I didn't read this post for 2 reasons.

1. The print is too large, and bothers my eyes.

2. The content is IDIOCY. There was NOTHING "wrong" with my post, and for you to say it was, only makes your post all the more "wrong". You're sinking even further.

You didn't read the post because you are not going THE HISTORICAL FACTS get on the way of your prejudice.

.

 

[protectionist]

In other words, even CBO statistics (which both the Republicans and the Dumbocrats are on record as stating are very accurate and unbiased) are "fake" in your mind. In fact, everything in your mind are lies and somehow you are the lone "enlightened" one who we should all follow.

Tell us junior, if "stats" are all "derived" from "the same govt of rich people" who you "critiqued in the OP" - where do you get your information that taxes are too low on the wealthy?

Do you realize what a tool you are now? You've literally painted yourself into a corner with this ignorant post. If we can't trust "stats", then whatever you say is irrelevant if you back it up with anything. And if you have nothing to back up what you say, then whatever you say is even more irrelevant and is not formed from any basis in reality. So either way, you just made your own opinion uninformed and worthless (because if your opinion is informed, whatever sources you used were "derived" from evil people who can't be trusted).

1. Reported for Age discrimination/harassment

Uh, what? What the hell are you talking about? To discriminate against you, I have to hold some power over you. What power do I hold over you, junior? And clearly, site mods are laughing at you because I was not notified of any violations!



You're not an "independent" junior - you're a ****'n greedy marxist parasite. You're so far left you make Clinton look like a Tea Party conservative.

3. "where do you get your information that taxes are too low on the wealthy?" >>> Here's one place (among others) >> http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/history-of-federal-individual-1.html]National Taxpayers Union - History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates[/SIZE]

You can toss out all the stats you like junior, but from whom are they derived? Answer? The same government parasites that I critiqued in my OP. So you're referring to a group of parasites to ask a question about parasites. Cool. That's about like asking the honchos of General Motors which is better > a Cadillac or a Lincoln?

4. HA HA. Nice try, if only it made sense. We can trust stats if/whenever they conform to reality that we see all around us. I already explained that in my Soviet Union example, in a recent post. Try to keep up.

So first junior ignorantly states that information, links, articles, and statics cannot be trusted because they are "made" by "wealthy" people - and wealthy people are apparently untrustworthy in his mind. When I point out then that this absurd statement means he is either ignorant (because he avoids information) or he can't back up his position (because whatever source he uses for information cannot be trusted) - he suddenly changes his narrative and states "we can trust stats if they conform" (interesting choice of words - sounds like a communist propagandist to me) "to reality that we see all around us".

Well junior, the facts I posted come from the CBO and completely match "the reality" I see all around me. I've seen my tax bill and it is outrageous. Meanwhile, parasites like you pay little or no taxes. So you're first narrative painted you into a corner and humiliated you. You're second narrative - which reversed course completely on your first narrative - simply proves that I was right to begin with.

So now that you've admitted your ignorant (and you try to justify your ignorance by claiming all information and statistics are falsified), and you've admitted to being a hypocrite by contradicting yourself when posting a link after claiming links can't be trusted, what else do you have for us junior?

The facts are, the wealthy are taxed to death while parasites like you enjoy a free ride. It's time you parasites have your taxes increased significantly to pay for all the benefits and perks that are used by parasites like you and not used by the wealthy.

1. Reported again for age discrimination and harassment (X 6) + inclusion of your statement >> "And clearly, site mods are laughing at you because I was not notified of any violations!" Time will tell on that one.

2. I am not "far left" or "left" at all. I'm a registered Independent and a REAL Conservative, in the Eisenhower mold. Your trouble is you don't know what REAL Conservatism is. You think it's connected to small, weak govt, low taxes, low spending. FALSE! That is NOT Conservatism. That is Reaganism. That is a dumb ideology patterned after a very highly paid movie star who just didn't want to pay 70% of his huge gross income in taxes (which would have still given him a far larger net than he deserved)
Eisenhower's tax on the top bracket was 91-92% for all the 8 years he was in office, and he was a REAL Conservative who drove illegal aliens back to Mexico in Operation ******* (32 years before Reagan gave then amnesty), improved infrastructure (including creating the interstate highway system), and commanded the Allied Forces in Europe in World War II, while your fake hero, Reagan, was in Hollywood making movies about it.
Next to many of my REAL Conservative positions you might come out looking like Nancy Pelosi. I'll even challenge you >> on immigration and Islam. Betcha my positions make you look like a liberal. We can talk about afirmative action and the death penalty too if you like. Want to go one on one ? >> I'll show you what REAL Conservatism is.

3. I'm OK with where my stats are from. If you didn't have your head in your you-know-what, you'd know a REAL Conservative from a psuedo-Conservative, and you'd see Eisenhower's tax rate at 91-92%, and Reagan's at 50-28%.

4. No need to bother addressing all your "interpretations" (or dreams maybe ?) of my posts, since they all lead to the lunacy expressed at the end that >>

5. Now you're saying the rich pay too much tax, and the lower classes should pay more. HA HA HA!! No end to your lunacy. The rich currently pay a relatively LOW 39.6% marginal individual tax. We're still in the movies star tax mode. This 39.6% is less than the normal tax rate in America over the pat 97 years. It is less than the tax rates of most of those years. And since we are now still in the ludicrous movie star tax mode (ever since the 80s), ludicrously passed off as "supply side economics" or "trickle down economics" or some other nonsensical phrase, designed to give it some justification for existence (other than simply GREED), then even these FALSE taxation years should not be counted. That would leave us with our current 39.6% trying to look legitimate, alongside 90% of all the normal years, when the top tax was much higher than that (and as high as 91-92%)

6. If you like to quote govt stats so much, I guess you know that the best GDP growths we've had occured when taxes were in the 75-80% range, closely followed by the 90+% years, and were abyssmally bad during the 28-31% Reagan-Bush(41) years, right ? (US Bureau of Economic Analysis & Tax Policy Center)

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/taxratesgrowth.jpg