What is the Mark of The Beast?

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Sorry, the Roman Empire is long gone

What do you mean no choice in the matter? The Jews of the first century were a real fractured bunch.. They fought each other and the Romans.. Herodians, Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, Essenes and Sicarri.


That's just plain dumb.


The Mark of the Beast isn't about corruption or Solomon.. Its not relevant today.

Damn. not about corruption or Solomon? Not relevant? Dumber.



The Jews were highly offended by the head of Caesar on the Roman coin which was used all over the Roman Empire.

The dispute wasn't over the head on the coin it was about paying taxes.

What is your beef with the Catholic Church?


I have no beef with the church and I am not against anybody. I am for the truth. If any of the members of the 30,000 denominations of the church are true to their professed dedication they will hear my voice, see the shit they are mixed up in, leave that tomb, stand up and walk like a person that reflects the image and likeness of a Holy God, and never look back.

That being said, the marking of God's servants occurs between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals securing the faithful from destruction.

So you are a follower of Hal Lindsey?

The Mark of the Beast, 666, and Nero (Rev 13:18 ...
By Peter Goeman. On August 1, 2020. In New Testament, Theology. Revelation 13:18 says that the one who “has understanding” should calculate the “number of the beast.”. This number is then further identified as the “number of man,” specifically, 666. Preterists have often interpreted Revelation 13:18 as a reference to Nero, but is that what John means when he says that the mark of the beast is 666?
No one should listen to your nonsense. The scriptures clearly state that AntiChrist and The Mark of AntiChrist are future events that occur at the End of The Age, during Jacob's Trouble immediately proceeding The Return of Messiah and The Beginning of his 1,000 Year Millennial Reign from The Throne of David in Jerusalem.

There is no Messiah sitting on David's Throne, and there is No Temple on The Temple Mount, so this is a future event that has not happened yet.

Nope.. That theology didn't exist until 1848.

The Messiah that the Jews expected was an anointed warrior king who would defeat the enemies of the Jews.. Jesus didn't fulfill their prophecies.. That why it is so wrong to fiddle with the OT verses and change their meaning in midverse.

If you believe Jesus, there won't be another Temple... He is the Temple and the Lamb.

Jesus tells us thru John that all this will happen within a generation NOT thousands of years in the future,
You know nothing about prophecy. Jesus was the cornerstone that the builders rejected. He came as the man of sorrows, and as Messiah Ben Joseph the suffering savior, the redeemer.

The Jews of His time were expecting Messiah Ben David, the conquering savior and believed in two different Messiahs coming once, but that is incorrect. The Messiah is One Messiah who came first to pay the penalties of sin and offer salvation to the whole world, and then is coming again as a Judge and King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

The Old Testament Prophets talked about The Messiah and Him returning sitting on The Throne of David 1,000s of years before this Lie you try to tell people.

Tht's where you go off course.. READ ALL of Isaiah.The suffering servant is Israel..... unless Isaiah intended to talk about Israel EXCEPT for one partial verse. Same with Hosea where he speaks of my son Israel that I brought out of Egypt.

Jesus wasn't an anointed king or a warrior. Is that not enough for you?
If His resurrection wasn't enough to convince you, I'm not sure what will. You may be one of those people who has to put their finger through His wounds to believe.

I believe in the resurrection.. Jesus wasn't the messiah predicted in the OT.. Did the Jews get it wrong?? I can't say, but Jesus is quite enough for me without gilding the Lily .. in fact I think Christians have created problems meddling with the OT to PROVE Jesus.
I don't believe He gave us a choice in the matter.

What do you mean no choice in the matter? They were a very fractured bunch. The Herodians, Saducees, Pharisees, Zealots, Essenes and Sicarri fought each other and the Romans. They sure didn't listen to the Sermon on the Mount.
His ministry and teaching were well chronicled in ~24,000 written manuscripts. That He is who He claimed He is and allowed others to believe He is who He claimed He is well documented. Hence my statement that He didn't give us a choice in believing anything different than what He claimed.

Most 90 to 120 years after the crufixon.
Actually I think the first was 25 years or so but that doesn't matter as the accuracy between copies, the timing and the number of manuscripts is unprecedented in antiquity.

But exactly what are you arguing anyway? That they are suspect?

80 to100 years ..

We don't really know who wrote the Gospels. Luke never met Jesus.. Mark didn't either. He was the traveling companion of Paul and Barnabas.


This is a very helpful website.

Yes, I've used this site before. Did you notice numbers on the left of the page?

View attachment 486810


And then when you clicked on each item...

View attachment 486811

Yes. It makes Paul's letters easy to identify quickly.
It shows the earliest manuscripts were ~25 years after the event. Or did that go over your head?

How many of those written in before the death of Paul made it into the canon? Many were written before the destruction of the Temple.

Luke was written late.

What event in antiquity are you comparing it to that you think that matters?

And are you admitting I was right about the earliest timing and you were wrong?
 

The Original Tree

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Sorry, the Roman Empire is long gone


That's just plain dumb.


The Mark of the Beast isn't about corruption or Solomon.. Its not relevant today.

Damn. not about corruption or Solomon? Not relevant? Dumber.



The Jews were highly offended by the head of Caesar on the Roman coin which was used all over the Roman Empire.

The dispute wasn't over the head on the coin it was about paying taxes.

What is your beef with the Catholic Church?


I have no beef with the church and I am not against anybody. I am for the truth. If any of the members of the 30,000 denominations of the church are true to their professed dedication they will hear my voice, see the shit they are mixed up in, leave that tomb, stand up and walk like a person that reflects the image and likeness of a Holy God, and never look back.

That being said, the marking of God's servants occurs between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals securing the faithful from destruction.

So you are a follower of Hal Lindsey?

The Mark of the Beast, 666, and Nero (Rev 13:18 ...
By Peter Goeman. On August 1, 2020. In New Testament, Theology. Revelation 13:18 says that the one who “has understanding” should calculate the “number of the beast.”. This number is then further identified as the “number of man,” specifically, 666. Preterists have often interpreted Revelation 13:18 as a reference to Nero, but is that what John means when he says that the mark of the beast is 666?
No one should listen to your nonsense. The scriptures clearly state that AntiChrist and The Mark of AntiChrist are future events that occur at the End of The Age, during Jacob's Trouble immediately proceeding The Return of Messiah and The Beginning of his 1,000 Year Millennial Reign from The Throne of David in Jerusalem.

There is no Messiah sitting on David's Throne, and there is No Temple on The Temple Mount, so this is a future event that has not happened yet.

Nope.. That theology didn't exist until 1848.

The Messiah that the Jews expected was an anointed warrior king who would defeat the enemies of the Jews.. Jesus didn't fulfill their prophecies.. That why it is so wrong to fiddle with the OT verses and change their meaning in midverse.

If you believe Jesus, there won't be another Temple... He is the Temple and the Lamb.

Jesus tells us thru John that all this will happen within a generation NOT thousands of years in the future,
You know nothing about prophecy. Jesus was the cornerstone that the builders rejected. He came as the man of sorrows, and as Messiah Ben Joseph the suffering savior, the redeemer.

The Jews of His time were expecting Messiah Ben David, the conquering savior and believed in two different Messiahs coming once, but that is incorrect. The Messiah is One Messiah who came first to pay the penalties of sin and offer salvation to the whole world, and then is coming again as a Judge and King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

The Old Testament Prophets talked about The Messiah and Him returning sitting on The Throne of David 1,000s of years before this Lie you try to tell people.

Tht's where you go off course.. READ ALL of Isaiah.The suffering servant is Israel..... unless Isaiah intended to talk about Israel EXCEPT for one partial verse. Same with Hosea where he speaks of my son Israel that I brought out of Egypt.

Jesus wasn't an anointed king or a warrior. Is that not enough for you?
How can Israel Save Israel? The Suffering Servant was Jesus Christ, Yeshua, Messiah, God The Son of God, The Holy One of Israel.

Israel cannot save Israel because Israel is in sin, like all men are.

It's by His stripes we are healed, and only by His stripes.
 

The Original Tree

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Sorry, the Roman Empire is long gone

What do you mean no choice in the matter? The Jews of the first century were a real fractured bunch.. They fought each other and the Romans.. Herodians, Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, Essenes and Sicarri.


That's just plain dumb.


The Mark of the Beast isn't about corruption or Solomon.. Its not relevant today.

Damn. not about corruption or Solomon? Not relevant? Dumber.



The Jews were highly offended by the head of Caesar on the Roman coin which was used all over the Roman Empire.

The dispute wasn't over the head on the coin it was about paying taxes.

What is your beef with the Catholic Church?


I have no beef with the church and I am not against anybody. I am for the truth. If any of the members of the 30,000 denominations of the church are true to their professed dedication they will hear my voice, see the shit they are mixed up in, leave that tomb, stand up and walk like a person that reflects the image and likeness of a Holy God, and never look back.

That being said, the marking of God's servants occurs between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals securing the faithful from destruction.

So you are a follower of Hal Lindsey?

The Mark of the Beast, 666, and Nero (Rev 13:18 ...
By Peter Goeman. On August 1, 2020. In New Testament, Theology. Revelation 13:18 says that the one who “has understanding” should calculate the “number of the beast.”. This number is then further identified as the “number of man,” specifically, 666. Preterists have often interpreted Revelation 13:18 as a reference to Nero, but is that what John means when he says that the mark of the beast is 666?
No one should listen to your nonsense. The scriptures clearly state that AntiChrist and The Mark of AntiChrist are future events that occur at the End of The Age, during Jacob's Trouble immediately proceeding The Return of Messiah and The Beginning of his 1,000 Year Millennial Reign from The Throne of David in Jerusalem.

There is no Messiah sitting on David's Throne, and there is No Temple on The Temple Mount, so this is a future event that has not happened yet.

Nope.. That theology didn't exist until 1848.

The Messiah that the Jews expected was an anointed warrior king who would defeat the enemies of the Jews.. Jesus didn't fulfill their prophecies.. That why it is so wrong to fiddle with the OT verses and change their meaning in midverse.

If you believe Jesus, there won't be another Temple... He is the Temple and the Lamb.

Jesus tells us thru John that all this will happen within a generation NOT thousands of years in the future,
You know nothing about prophecy. Jesus was the cornerstone that the builders rejected. He came as the man of sorrows, and as Messiah Ben Joseph the suffering savior, the redeemer.

The Jews of His time were expecting Messiah Ben David, the conquering savior and believed in two different Messiahs coming once, but that is incorrect. The Messiah is One Messiah who came first to pay the penalties of sin and offer salvation to the whole world, and then is coming again as a Judge and King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

The Old Testament Prophets talked about The Messiah and Him returning sitting on The Throne of David 1,000s of years before this Lie you try to tell people.

Tht's where you go off course.. READ ALL of Isaiah.The suffering servant is Israel..... unless Isaiah intended to talk about Israel EXCEPT for one partial verse. Same with Hosea where he speaks of my son Israel that I brought out of Egypt.

Jesus wasn't an anointed king or a warrior. Is that not enough for you?
If His resurrection wasn't enough to convince you, I'm not sure what will. You may be one of those people who has to put their finger through His wounds to believe.

I believe in the resurrection.. Jesus wasn't the messiah predicted in the OT.. Did the Jews get it wrong?? I can't say, but Jesus is quite enough for me without gilding the Lily .. in fact I think Christians have created problems meddling with the OT to PROVE Jesus.
I don't believe He gave us a choice in the matter.

What do you mean no choice in the matter? They were a very fractured bunch. The Herodians, Saducees, Pharisees, Zealots, Essenes and Sicarri fought each other and the Romans. They sure didn't listen to the Sermon on the Mount.
His ministry and teaching were well chronicled in ~24,000 written manuscripts. That He is who He claimed He is and allowed others to believe He is who He claimed He is well documented. Hence my statement that He didn't give us a choice in believing anything different than what He claimed.

Most 90 to 120 years after the crufixon.
Actually I think the first was 25 years or so but that doesn't matter as the accuracy between copies, the timing and the number of manuscripts is unprecedented in antiquity.

But exactly what are you arguing anyway? That they are suspect?

80 to100 years ..

We don't really know who wrote the Gospels. Luke never met Jesus.. Mark didn't either. He was the traveling companion of Paul and Barnabas.


This is a very helpful website.

Yes, I've used this site before. Did you notice numbers on the left of the page?

View attachment 486810


And then when you clicked on each item...

View attachment 486811

Yes. It makes Paul's letters easy to identify quickly.
It shows the earliest manuscripts were ~25 years after the event. Or did that go over your head?

How many of those written in before the death of Paul made it into the canon? Many were written before the destruction of the Temple.

Luke was written late.

All we know is The Quran is a forgery and is not The Word of God. When the book of Revelation was finished, there would be no more Revelations from God, and there has not been since John inspired of God penned it while imprisoned on The Isle of Patmos.
 

Paulie

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For the people of Israel, deliverance from Egypt was like a mark on their hand or between their eyes (Ex 13:9, 16). Faithfulness to God was to be normative in their daily lives.

It's not an actual mark. It's allegiance to God, or in the case of Revelation, allegiance to the beast.
Exactly this.
 

norwegen

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For the people of Israel, deliverance from Egypt was like a mark on their hand or between their eyes (Ex 13:9, 16). Faithfulness to God was to be normative in their daily lives.

It's not an actual mark. It's allegiance to God, or in the case of Revelation, allegiance to the beast.
Exactly this.
I'm amazed that though scripture sets literary and cultural precedence, people choose to ignore it. In effect, they create their own religion.
 

GMCGeneral

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For me to know and you not to find out.
Can someone out there explain, what is the Mark of the Beast? Your thoughts.

I have a rather novel theory about that.

It seems to be widely-assumed that the Mark will be some sort of physical mark or device. In the context of modern technology, an RFID chip fits the bill very nicely. Imagine having an RFID chip implanted in you, and when you go shopping, instead of breaking out a wallet, or a debit card, you just let them scan your chip, instantly linking you to your bank account, so that payment can be transferred therefrom to pay for your purchase. Similarly, working and earning your wages, or selling something, would also go through this technology. This would very nicely fit the description in Revelation, which has it that you could not buy or sell unless you had the Mark.

———

But that's not what I'm thinking. I'm thinking the Mark may be more figurative than literal, an ideological “Mark”, and I think we've already seen the barest beginnings of it.

I'm thinking of recent cases, in which merchants were sued for declining to provide direct support for insane and immoral crap, such as sick homosexual mockeries of weddings. Their businesses have been badly damaged or destroyed, and I've seen the opinion repeatedly and strongly expressed on this forum that people who have moral standards should not be allowed to own businesses, if they are not willing to violate their moral standards in the transactions that they will engage in.

There it is—the beginning of the idea that one must be willing to submit to evil, as a condition of being allowed to engage in commerce. As executed so far, the idea that one cannot engage in the business of providing custom goods or services, if one is not willing to provide these goods or services explicitly in support of that which one knows to be wrong. Better than the more literal version of what the Mark is thought to be, this version more directly ties the privilege of engaging in commerce to the willingness to bow down before the Beast.
As to the first point, Revelation 13 backs that theory. "That no man may buy nor sell unless he has the mark in his right hand or forehead" Deniers pine for a one world cashless system like this.
 

The Original Tree

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For the people of Israel, deliverance from Egypt was like a mark on their hand or between their eyes (Ex 13:9, 16). Faithfulness to God was to be normative in their daily lives.

It's not an actual mark. It's allegiance to God, or in the case of Revelation, allegiance to the beast.
Exactly this.
Completely wrong since the word used for mark means physical mark like a scar or tattoo.
 

Paulie

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For the people of Israel, deliverance from Egypt was like a mark on their hand or between their eyes (Ex 13:9, 16). Faithfulness to God was to be normative in their daily lives.

It's not an actual mark. It's allegiance to God, or in the case of Revelation, allegiance to the beast.
Exactly this.
Completely wrong since the word used for mark means physical mark like a scar or tattoo.
There’s literally nothing that indicates that directly and clearly. But earlier in scripture there’s reference to marks in a similar way with a spiritual context not a physical one
 

The Original Tree

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For the people of Israel, deliverance from Egypt was like a mark on their hand or between their eyes (Ex 13:9, 16). Faithfulness to God was to be normative in their daily lives.

It's not an actual mark. It's allegiance to God, or in the case of Revelation, allegiance to the beast.
Exactly this.
Completely wrong since the word used for mark means physical mark like a scar or tattoo.
There’s literally nothing that indicates that directly and clearly. But earlier in scripture there’s reference to marks in a similar way with a spiritual context not a physical one
How would one have AntiChrist' name or number associated with his name on their wrist or forehead?

You'd have to be able to see that, now wouldn't you and the original Greek word used for "Mark" means a physical mark, impression or tattoo.
 

Paulie

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For the people of Israel, deliverance from Egypt was like a mark on their hand or between their eyes (Ex 13:9, 16). Faithfulness to God was to be normative in their daily lives.

It's not an actual mark. It's allegiance to God, or in the case of Revelation, allegiance to the beast.
Exactly this.
Completely wrong since the word used for mark means physical mark like a scar or tattoo.
There’s literally nothing that indicates that directly and clearly. But earlier in scripture there’s reference to marks in a similar way with a spiritual context not a physical one
How would one have AntiChrist' name or number associated with his name on their wrist or forehead?

You'd have to be able to see that, now wouldn't you and the original Greek word used for "Mark" means a physical mark, impression or tattoo.
Read scripture, that’s all I can say. The absolute best analysis of who or what the antichrist is, is that it’s the papacy. We’re told that the antichrist will blaspheme God, and we’re told in scripture what blasphemy is. The papacy claims that they are literally Christ on earth. This is blasphemy. When you go to confessional in Catholic Church, a priest will forgive you of your confessed sins. Nobody but God himself has the authority to forgive sin. Nothing else fits what the antichrist is more than the papacy.
 

surada

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Sorry, the Roman Empire is long gone


That's just plain dumb.


The Mark of the Beast isn't about corruption or Solomon.. Its not relevant today.

Damn. not about corruption or Solomon? Not relevant? Dumber.



The Jews were highly offended by the head of Caesar on the Roman coin which was used all over the Roman Empire.

The dispute wasn't over the head on the coin it was about paying taxes.

What is your beef with the Catholic Church?


I have no beef with the church and I am not against anybody. I am for the truth. If any of the members of the 30,000 denominations of the church are true to their professed dedication they will hear my voice, see the shit they are mixed up in, leave that tomb, stand up and walk like a person that reflects the image and likeness of a Holy God, and never look back.

That being said, the marking of God's servants occurs between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals securing the faithful from destruction.

So you are a follower of Hal Lindsey?

The Mark of the Beast, 666, and Nero (Rev 13:18 ...
By Peter Goeman. On August 1, 2020. In New Testament, Theology. Revelation 13:18 says that the one who “has understanding” should calculate the “number of the beast.”. This number is then further identified as the “number of man,” specifically, 666. Preterists have often interpreted Revelation 13:18 as a reference to Nero, but is that what John means when he says that the mark of the beast is 666?
No one should listen to your nonsense. The scriptures clearly state that AntiChrist and The Mark of AntiChrist are future events that occur at the End of The Age, during Jacob's Trouble immediately proceeding The Return of Messiah and The Beginning of his 1,000 Year Millennial Reign from The Throne of David in Jerusalem.

There is no Messiah sitting on David's Throne, and there is No Temple on The Temple Mount, so this is a future event that has not happened yet.

Nope.. That theology didn't exist until 1848.

The Messiah that the Jews expected was an anointed warrior king who would defeat the enemies of the Jews.. Jesus didn't fulfill their prophecies.. That why it is so wrong to fiddle with the OT verses and change their meaning in midverse.

If you believe Jesus, there won't be another Temple... He is the Temple and the Lamb.

Jesus tells us thru John that all this will happen within a generation NOT thousands of years in the future,
You know nothing about prophecy. Jesus was the cornerstone that the builders rejected. He came as the man of sorrows, and as Messiah Ben Joseph the suffering savior, the redeemer.

The Jews of His time were expecting Messiah Ben David, the conquering savior and believed in two different Messiahs coming once, but that is incorrect. The Messiah is One Messiah who came first to pay the penalties of sin and offer salvation to the whole world, and then is coming again as a Judge and King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

The Old Testament Prophets talked about The Messiah and Him returning sitting on The Throne of David 1,000s of years before this Lie you try to tell people.

Tht's where you go off course.. READ ALL of Isaiah.The suffering servant is Israel..... unless Isaiah intended to talk about Israel EXCEPT for one partial verse. Same with Hosea where he speaks of my son Israel that I brought out of Egypt.

Jesus wasn't an anointed king or a warrior. Is that not enough for you?
How can Israel Save Israel? The Suffering Servant was Jesus Christ, Yeshua, Messiah, God The Son of God, The Holy One of Israel.

Israel cannot save Israel because Israel is in sin, like all men are.

It's by His stripes we are healed, and only by His stripes.

Try reading ALL of Isaiah.. Israel is the suffering servant of God.
 

surada

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For the people of Israel, deliverance from Egypt was like a mark on their hand or between their eyes (Ex 13:9, 16). Faithfulness to God was to be normative in their daily lives.

It's not an actual mark. It's allegiance to God, or in the case of Revelation, allegiance to the beast.
Exactly this.
Completely wrong since the word used for mark means physical mark like a scar or tattoo.
There’s literally nothing that indicates that directly and clearly. But earlier in scripture there’s reference to marks in a similar way with a spiritual context not a physical one
How would one have AntiChrist' name or number associated with his name on their wrist or forehead?

You'd have to be able to see that, now wouldn't you and the original Greek word used for "Mark" means a physical mark, impression or tattoo.
Read scripture, that’s all I can say. The absolute best analysis of who or what the antichrist is, is that it’s the papacy. We’re told that the antichrist will blaspheme God, and we’re told in scripture what blasphemy is. The papacy claims that they are literally Christ on earth. This is blasphemy. When you go to confessional in Catholic Church, a priest will forgive you of your confessed sins. Nobody but God himself has the authority to forgive sin. Nothing else fits what the antichrist is more than the papacy.

The antiChrist was the Roman Emperor (Nero or Dominitian)

There was no Catholic Church yet.
 

surada

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Sorry, the Roman Empire is long gone

What do you mean no choice in the matter? The Jews of the first century were a real fractured bunch.. They fought each other and the Romans.. Herodians, Pharisees, Sadducees, Zealots, Essenes and Sicarri.


That's just plain dumb.


The Mark of the Beast isn't about corruption or Solomon.. Its not relevant today.

Damn. not about corruption or Solomon? Not relevant? Dumber.



The Jews were highly offended by the head of Caesar on the Roman coin which was used all over the Roman Empire.

The dispute wasn't over the head on the coin it was about paying taxes.

What is your beef with the Catholic Church?


I have no beef with the church and I am not against anybody. I am for the truth. If any of the members of the 30,000 denominations of the church are true to their professed dedication they will hear my voice, see the shit they are mixed up in, leave that tomb, stand up and walk like a person that reflects the image and likeness of a Holy God, and never look back.

That being said, the marking of God's servants occurs between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals securing the faithful from destruction.

So you are a follower of Hal Lindsey?

The Mark of the Beast, 666, and Nero (Rev 13:18 ...
By Peter Goeman. On August 1, 2020. In New Testament, Theology. Revelation 13:18 says that the one who “has understanding” should calculate the “number of the beast.”. This number is then further identified as the “number of man,” specifically, 666. Preterists have often interpreted Revelation 13:18 as a reference to Nero, but is that what John means when he says that the mark of the beast is 666?
No one should listen to your nonsense. The scriptures clearly state that AntiChrist and The Mark of AntiChrist are future events that occur at the End of The Age, during Jacob's Trouble immediately proceeding The Return of Messiah and The Beginning of his 1,000 Year Millennial Reign from The Throne of David in Jerusalem.

There is no Messiah sitting on David's Throne, and there is No Temple on The Temple Mount, so this is a future event that has not happened yet.

Nope.. That theology didn't exist until 1848.

The Messiah that the Jews expected was an anointed warrior king who would defeat the enemies of the Jews.. Jesus didn't fulfill their prophecies.. That why it is so wrong to fiddle with the OT verses and change their meaning in midverse.

If you believe Jesus, there won't be another Temple... He is the Temple and the Lamb.

Jesus tells us thru John that all this will happen within a generation NOT thousands of years in the future,
You know nothing about prophecy. Jesus was the cornerstone that the builders rejected. He came as the man of sorrows, and as Messiah Ben Joseph the suffering savior, the redeemer.

The Jews of His time were expecting Messiah Ben David, the conquering savior and believed in two different Messiahs coming once, but that is incorrect. The Messiah is One Messiah who came first to pay the penalties of sin and offer salvation to the whole world, and then is coming again as a Judge and King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

The Old Testament Prophets talked about The Messiah and Him returning sitting on The Throne of David 1,000s of years before this Lie you try to tell people.

Tht's where you go off course.. READ ALL of Isaiah.The suffering servant is Israel..... unless Isaiah intended to talk about Israel EXCEPT for one partial verse. Same with Hosea where he speaks of my son Israel that I brought out of Egypt.

Jesus wasn't an anointed king or a warrior. Is that not enough for you?
If His resurrection wasn't enough to convince you, I'm not sure what will. You may be one of those people who has to put their finger through His wounds to believe.

I believe in the resurrection.. Jesus wasn't the messiah predicted in the OT.. Did the Jews get it wrong?? I can't say, but Jesus is quite enough for me without gilding the Lily .. in fact I think Christians have created problems meddling with the OT to PROVE Jesus.
I don't believe He gave us a choice in the matter.

What do you mean no choice in the matter? They were a very fractured bunch. The Herodians, Saducees, Pharisees, Zealots, Essenes and Sicarri fought each other and the Romans. They sure didn't listen to the Sermon on the Mount.
His ministry and teaching were well chronicled in ~24,000 written manuscripts. That He is who He claimed He is and allowed others to believe He is who He claimed He is well documented. Hence my statement that He didn't give us a choice in believing anything different than what He claimed.

Most 90 to 120 years after the crufixon.
Actually I think the first was 25 years or so but that doesn't matter as the accuracy between copies, the timing and the number of manuscripts is unprecedented in antiquity.

But exactly what are you arguing anyway? That they are suspect?

80 to100 years ..

We don't really know who wrote the Gospels. Luke never met Jesus.. Mark didn't either. He was the traveling companion of Paul and Barnabas.


This is a very helpful website.

Yes, I've used this site before. Did you notice numbers on the left of the page?

View attachment 486810


And then when you clicked on each item...

View attachment 486811

Yes. It makes Paul's letters easy to identify quickly.
It shows the earliest manuscripts were ~25 years after the event. Or did that go over your head?

How many of those written in before the death of Paul made it into the canon? Many were written before the destruction of the Temple.

Luke was written late.

All we know is The Quran is a forgery and is not The Word of God. When the book of Revelation was finished, there would be no more Revelations from God, and there has not been since John inspired of God penned it while imprisoned on The Isle of Patmos.

You should probably study the Bible before you take on Islam.

Apocalyptic literature was very popular.. Everybody was writing an Apocalypse.
 

.oldschool

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ou should probably study the Bible before you take on Islam.


Could you please follow the advice in the sticky thread?

Whenever I select "click to expand" my device freezes with the mile long reply chain. Thanks.
 

surada

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ou should probably study the Bible before you take on Islam.


Could you please follow the advice in the sticky thread?

Whenever I select "click to expand" my device freezes with the mile long reply chain. Thanks.

The reply chains are annoying, aren't they?
 

surada

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Mark of the beast? | Science and Bible Research


If we confer with the relevant, aforementioned Bible passages, the proper interpretation indicates that the "mark of the beast" was a reference to a coin stamped with the image of an individual (i.e., the beast) whose name equaled 666. Historically, the sixth emperor of the Roman Empire, Nero (54-68 A.D.), fits the apostle John's description.
 

surada

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People on this thread would know what the Mark of the Beast was if it bit them in the ass.

John tells you that the Beast is the Roman emperor and his name is numbered 666.. and that his likeness is impressed or engraved on Roman coin. Using Roman coins wasn't voluntary.
 

The Original Tree

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For the people of Israel, deliverance from Egypt was like a mark on their hand or between their eyes (Ex 13:9, 16). Faithfulness to God was to be normative in their daily lives.

It's not an actual mark. It's allegiance to God, or in the case of Revelation, allegiance to the beast.
Exactly this.
Completely wrong since the word used for mark means physical mark like a scar or tattoo.
There’s literally nothing that indicates that directly and clearly. But earlier in scripture there’s reference to marks in a similar way with a spiritual context not a physical one
How would one have AntiChrist' name or number associated with his name on their wrist or forehead?

You'd have to be able to see that, now wouldn't you and the original Greek word used for "Mark" means a physical mark, impression or tattoo.
Read scripture, that’s all I can say. The absolute best analysis of who or what the antichrist is, is that it’s the papacy. We’re told that the antichrist will blaspheme God, and we’re told in scripture what blasphemy is. The papacy claims that they are literally Christ on earth. This is blasphemy. When you go to confessional in Catholic Church, a priest will forgive you of your confessed sins. Nobody but God himself has the authority to forgive sin. Nothing else fits what the antichrist is more than the papacy.
It's more likely a religious figure or false church would be The Whore that Rides The Beast, or The False Prophet.

The AntiChrist does not respect any religion, and only uses religion as a pathway to power, and once he achieves it, he destroys The Whore that sits upon The Beast. The only religion allowed is worship of The AntiChrist when he comes, and The False Prophet if he is from some other religion will completely turn his back on that religion and only worship AntiChrist and demand all others worship him too.
 

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