What is the attraction of Islam?

[Mac1958]

Most helpful thread evah

 

[martybegan]

The type of western woman who goes into hard core militant Islam of her own will is the same person who would have gone to Jonestown or got themselves ready for the Comet Hale-Bopp with the Heavens gate cult. Its a weakness of personality, and a susceptibility to being told what to do.

What you describe is equally applicable to any religion. Why you narrowly focus your scorn on a select few is a reflection of yourself.

Not really. I don't see Catholic or Lutheran women having to wear covers or give fealty to their men. Maybe you have a comparison with Hasidim, but they really are not into covering people.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I can defend Islam all day long Mac, the same way that I can any other faith - sometimes useful bullshit...

Cool, try Christianity now.
.

If the Christians acted like Jesus, for the most part, this would be a vastly better nation and I wouldn't hate them so much. Unfortunately they have a gun-toting VISA-card Jesus, who is nothing like the crazy fucker of the Bible. Their version of a Peacemaker fires 30 rounds a second...

Fun. LOL on the Less Violent Version of The Passion of the Christ...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The type of western woman who goes into hard core militant Islam of her own will is the same person who would have gone to Jonestown or got themselves ready for the Comet Hale-Bopp with the Heavens gate cult. Its a weakness of personality, and a susceptibility to being told what to do.

What you describe is equally applicable to any religion. Why you narrowly focus your scorn on a select few is a reflection of yourself.

Not really. I don't see Catholic or Lutheran women having to wear covers or give fealty to their men. Maybe you have a comparison with Hasidim, but they really are not into covering people.

 

[SwimExpert]

They're not christians.

So now you're making the exact same argument that you reject when made in regards to Islam. Christianity claims to be a religion of peace, and you accept that. Christianity's texts say to take up the sword, and you call it a spiritual metaphor, and you accept that. Some Christians take it as a literal teaching, and you say they aren't true Christians.

Your entire mode of thinking is ego centric and prejudiced.

 

[martybegan]

The type of western woman who goes into hard core militant Islam of her own will is the same person who would have gone to Jonestown or got themselves ready for the Comet Hale-Bopp with the Heavens gate cult. Its a weakness of personality, and a susceptibility to being told what to do.

What you describe is equally applicable to any religion. Why you narrowly focus your scorn on a select few is a reflection of yourself.

Not really. I don't see Catholic or Lutheran women having to wear covers or give fealty to their men. Maybe you have a comparison with Hasidim, but they really are not into covering people.

Oh yeah, covers in church = full covering of people outside.

Also remember men CAN'T wear hats in church, there are rules for both sexes.

Your attempt at equivocation is as usual, a failure.

 

[SwimExpert]

Not really. I don't see Catholic or Lutheran women having to wear covers or give fealty to their men. Maybe you have a comparison with Hasidim, but they really are not into covering people.

People of all kinds of religious flavors willfully comply with strict limitations upon themselves. Why you accept some, and not others, is a reflection on yourself and nothing more. Hell, male Jewish converts are required to mutilate their genitals. Are you interested in condemning Christianity?

 

[martybegan]

Not really. I don't see Catholic or Lutheran women having to wear covers or give fealty to their men. Maybe you have a comparison with Hasidim, but they really are not into covering people.

People of all kinds of religious flavors willfully comply with strict limitations upon themselves. Why you accept some, and not others, is a reflection on yourself and nothing more. Hell, male Jewish converts are required to mutilate their genitals. Are you interested in condemning Christianity?

I wasn't condemning anything, I was making an observation on the mentality that would willingly give itself up to subservience, especially coming from free societies with gender equality, or close to gender equality.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

They're not christians.

So now you're making the exact same argument that you reject when made in regards to Islam. Christianity claims to be a religion of peace, and you accept that. Christianity's texts say to take up the sword, and you call it a spiritual metaphor, and you accept that. Some Christians take it as a literal teaching, and you say they aren't true Christians.

Your entire mode of thinking is ego centric and prejudiced.

I don't disagree with you that people distort the true intentions of a faith.

 

[Arizona Willie]

All equal, huh?

That's why the mullahs send their " equals " to blow themselves up but the Mullahs never show them how.
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In Islam all men are brothers, and all equal before God. None higher, none lower.

 

[FA_Q2]

The attraction of Islam is the same as the attraction of Christianity...

some sort of prospect of salvation.

There is a big difference though: most Christian sects do not demand that the woman give up equality where most or the time Islam does.

That puts a pretty damn big wrench in the idea in general. Perhaps the question should be why someone would be attracted to Islam over the myriad of other options on the table that do not remove ones freedoms. It is a valid if somewhat loaded query.

Interestingly, the US has never had a female president, but the Muslim nation of Pakistan has had a female Prime Minister.

And?

I am sure you had a point here.

Self-evident.

No, it really is not.

It is interesting, however, that consistently remind us that the US is a SECULAR nation and not a christian one then you make statements like these.

I wonder, were you trying to point out how sexist secularism is and how much better a strong faith like Islam would be?

 

[frigidweirdo]

( I posted this in the Religion topic but thought I would post it here in my favorite place to tease right wingers too )
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There is a noticeable surge in Muslims in America.

Some years back, it became fashionable among blacks --- particularly among black prisoners.
Then their women adopted the religion and were seen wearing burquas.
But not many overall.

Now I'm seeing white women wearing burqas!!

Saw one in Wal-Mart the other day.

Which makes me wonder what the attraction of Islam is --- especially why would emancipated American women voluntarily give up their freedom and allow themselves to be made into domestic sex slaves?

I can understand that, to a certain kind of " man ", there is an attraction to having their females totally subservient and being allowed ( by their religion if not by the law ) to beat them and even kill them for certain " offenses ".

But why do their women submit?

People like being told what to do. It makes life easier, provides security. People like having lots of things they have to do in their daily life, routines, like praying etc. It gives people purpose, especially people who can't really think for themselves.

people who cant think for themselves chant "CHANGE!!" and pretend record welfare and food stamps is "forward progress".

People who don't think come in all shapes and sizes and will believe all sorts of things.

Don't pretend that many people on the right don't think either. They're everywhere and they'll jump on ships all over the place. Trump is someone who attracts the mindless mob, for example.

 

[FA_Q2]

There's the college girl who sort of finds religion and wants to wear the garb for a few years before she snaps out of it.

The lifelong Muslim is attracted to the simplicity. The enigmas and mysteries of the OT are steam ironed flat. The Quran works better as a cookbook. Some Christians try to treat the Bible as a recipe book, but that always leads to absurdities. So, true Christianity leads to greater richness, but also greater doubt. Islam is less challenging to understand.

Excellent observation. An inherent nexus exists between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam where each subsequent faith represents some form of revision upon the older ways. Jesus is a reformational figure, who pushed back against what he saw as fundamental errors in the theological development of the Jewish faith. His purpose was to correct those errors, and set straight the misguided teachings that had come to be embraced. Much of the resulting new religion reflects an improvement on the older Jewish theology. Where stoning woman for divorcing her husband proved to be a problematic theological principle, Jesus taught that the first stone should be thrown by a sinless person. Where the prohibition against doing work on the Sabbath might lead a person to starve, Jesus taught that the law must be read with flexibility and not be taken to extremes such that demand pain and suffering from the faithful.

Muhammad was also a reformational figure in nearly the exact same way. He set out to further clarify and refine perceived theological problems and inconsistencies within Christianity. As a result, there is a somewhat progressive transitional relationship between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. An open minded and curious individual who comes from a Jewish background and who sets out to search for spiritual fulfillment can very naturally find themselves appreciating Christianity as a refinement of the imperfect Judaism that has left them unfulfilled. It's rather quite common for Jewish people to convert to Christianity their first introductions to Christian teachings. Likewise, an open minded and curious individual who comes from a Christian background and who sets out to search for spiritual fulfillment can very naturally find themselves appreciating Islam as a refinement of the imperfect Christianity that has left them unfulfilled; Christian to Muslim conversion occurs with the same ease for many people as Judaism to Christianity conversions.

I fond this rather interesting.

It reads as though you see Islam as a more advanced version of Christianity. I think there is a fundamental flaw in that line of reasoning as Christians built their faith on the foundation of Judaism whereas Islam did not build off of Christianity.

 

[FA_Q2]

The type of western woman who goes into hard core militant Islam of her own will is the same person who would have gone to Jonestown or got themselves ready for the Comet Hale-Bopp with the Heavens gate cult. Its a weakness of personality, and a susceptibility to being told what to do.

What you describe is equally applicable to any religion. Why you narrowly focus your scorn on a select few is a reflection of yourself.

Not really. I don't see Catholic or Lutheran women having to wear covers or give fealty to their men. Maybe you have a comparison with Hasidim, but they really are not into covering people.

Funny - if you had ever been to an Islamic nation you would understand how utterly fail such a comparison is.

 

[FA_Q2]

Oh yeah, covers in church = full covering of people outside.

Also remember men CAN'T wear hats in church, there are rules for both sexes.

Your attempt at equivocation is as usual, a failure.

Islam does the same as well - men have required garb as the women do.

 

[ninja007]

72 virgins, murder, young girls, weapons?

 

[Kosh]

See the far left and the extreme Islamist have a lot in common.

They can rape and murder people in the name of their religion..

They are not accountable to anyone, including their own kind.

They get to run around and cite religious scripture as if it were fact.

They hate and want to kill Christians..

They hate and want to destroy America..

Pick one or add more..

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The type of western woman who goes into hard core militant Islam of her own will is the same person who would have gone to Jonestown or got themselves ready for the Comet Hale-Bopp with the Heavens gate cult. Its a weakness of personality, and a susceptibility to being told what to do.

What you describe is equally applicable to any religion. Why you narrowly focus your scorn on a select few is a reflection of yourself.

Not really. I don't see Catholic or Lutheran women having to wear covers or give fealty to their men. Maybe you have a comparison with Hasidim, but they really are not into covering people.

Funny - if you had ever been to an Islamic nation you would understand how utterly fail such a comparison is.

Since I have, I understand the mentality of the religious. Same shit, different holy book.

 

[SwimExpert]

I fond this rather interesting.

It reads as though you see Islam as a more advanced version of Christianity.

Islam is merely a continuation. It addresses certain shortcomings that have been found at times in Christianity. I don't see it as being more advanced than Christianity. But I recognize that when a person from a Christian background goes searching for new answers because they are dissatisfied with Christianity's own shortcomings, it will feel logical for some of those people to find a greater satisfaction in a religion that set out to address those perceived shortcomings. Ultimately, I find all organized religions to be rife with their own shortcomings. The important question is whether a given religion suits the spiritual needs of a given individual. For example, my spiritual needs do not include weekly assembly with a community to pray, read from ancient books, etc. But some people do need that in order to feel connected to divinity.

The mechanism here is the progression from an older system to a newer system, and the ultimate point is that these occurrences do not speak to any one religion being superior or better than the other. The perceived greater satisfaction and fulfillment that these individuals experience is attributable to the progressive relationship between the religions; it's essentially a psychological effect and therefore attributing these situations to the quality of the new found religions is inappropriate. A Jew can come to Christianity in the same way, a Christian can come to Islam in this way, a Muslim can come to the Bahai faith in this way, a Christian can come Mormonism in this way, etc. It's all about the basic human need for spiritual fulfillment, not the chosen flavor of spiritual fulfillment.

As a sincere and devout Pagan I have encountered many people who subscribe to Wicca and other neo-pagan traditions simply because they are searching for an alternative to Christianity, in which they've been immersed for their whole lives. Interestingly, I find that many of these people choose to claim allegiance to such beliefs, though the beliefs never are truly set in their hearts. Sometimes they'll even tell you that primary reasons for making this switch is because of their perception of Christianity's shortcomings. I like to call these people the "Christianity sucks, I quit" crowd. In many ways, this is a very similar phenomenon (though it typically involves a much more dramatic degree of dissatisfaction, as they are making a more severe break and venturing into a fundamentally different family of religions). These are people who feel a fundamental need to belong to establish a religious identity, which is human nature.

I think there is a fundamental flaw in that line of reasoning as Christians built their faith on the foundation of Judaism whereas Islam did not build off of Christianity.

It's quite arguable whether Christianity was built on a foundation of Judaism, and it's quite arguable whether Islam was built on a foundation of Christianity. But it's not very arguable that the degree to which the former is true is substantially different than the degree to which the latter is true. Christianity has strong and pronounced deviations from Judaism, just like Islam has pronounced deviations from Christianity. That being said, the degree of deviation in the latter case is probably slightly less than the former. Islam probably has less deviation from Judaism than Christianity has from Judaism.

 

[SwimExpert]

I wasn't condemning anything, I was making an observation on the mentality that would willingly give itself up to subservience, especially coming from free societies with gender equality, or close to gender equality.

No, you're making an observation on the mentality that would willingly give itself up to subservience for any religion other than Christianity. Subservience is a fundamental part of Christianity too. But you want it overlooked in that case.