What is a small government libertarian?

[Dad2three]

You'll notice everyone criticizing the libertarians here have nothing to offer but hyperbole, ignorance, or insults. Authoritarian statists don't like their power or oppression being questioned.

PLEASE just ONE state or nation to EVER use libertarian myths and fairy tales? EVER?

Please show us ONE successful Collectivist State that has implemented the nonsense you advocate.

US, Germany, Denmark, UK, Switzerland, Japan, etc...

 

[rightwinger]

Why would anyone assume small government s desirable?

Which "small government" should we base ourselves on?

 

[Dad2three]

You see dad. This is how people like you treat businesses. You mug them before the ball is even near the receiver. In a Libertarian world that is still a penalty. In a liberal one, it's fair to mug the receiver before he the ball gets there. It's called open markets with limited intrusion. Yet you still get no flag or penalty if you play by the rules.

Got it, you'll stick to myths and fairy tales


The Founders believed in carefully delineated federal powers either broad (Hamilton) or limited (Jefferson, sometimes) but all believed in a more powerful state than libertarians purport to believe in. If ever there was a libertarian document it was the Articles of Confederation. There was no national power. The federal government could not tax. Its laws were not supreme over state laws. It was in fact, the hot mess that critics of libertarians believe their dream state would be… and it was recognized as such by the majority of the country and was why the Constitution was ratified. The Articles of Confederation is the true libertarian founding document and this explains the failure of libertarianism.


The Founders Were No Libertarians

 

[Dad2three]

Dad2three makes the very common moonbat mistake of assuming that Libertarianism is Anarchy.

Nope, pointing out OVER AND OVER, libertarianism NEVER works. You can't point to ONE state or nation to EVER use it successfully. Weird? lol

 

[boedicca]

PLEASE just ONE state or nation to EVER use libertarian myths and fairy tales? EVER?

Please show us ONE successful Collectivist State that has implemented the nonsense you advocate.

US, Germany, Denmark, UK, Switzerland, Japan, etc...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

This board is polluted with your posts ranting how AWFUL life is for the common man in the U.S., so your utopian view could not possibly be represented by the U.S.

The rest are hardly the socialist paradises you envision, as any reading of the news would enable a person with a functioning higher brain functions to comprehend.

I do like Switzerland's mandatory gun ownership - that's good policy.

 

[boedicca]

Dad views Big Government Corporate Cronies the same as free market competitive corporations.

They aren't the same things at all.

 

[eagle1462010]

You see dad. This is how people like you treat businesses. You mug them before the ball is even near the receiver. In a Libertarian world that is still a penalty. In a liberal one, it's fair to mug the receiver before he the ball gets there. It's called open markets with limited intrusion. Yet you still get no flag or penalty if you play by the rules.

Got it, you'll stick to myths and fairy tales


The Founders believed in carefully delineated federal powers either broad (Hamilton) or limited (Jefferson, sometimes) but all believed in a more powerful state than libertarians purport to believe in. If ever there was a libertarian document it was the Articles of Confederation. There was no national power. The federal government could not tax. Its laws were not supreme over state laws. It was in fact, the hot mess that critics of libertarians believe their dream state would be… and it was recognized as such by the majority of the country and was why the Constitution was ratified. The Articles of Confederation is the true libertarian founding document and this explains the failure of libertarianism.


The Founders Were No Libertarians

No I'm not because you are a one sided troll. That's you mugging the receiver with your anti business and tax the hell out of anything that moves mentality. Your mugging the receiver who in this case is a business. The Gov'ts job is to watch the game and throw flags when people do illegal shit.

Today. The Gov't is grabbing the football and running up the field with it.

 

[Picaro]

Note that kaz doesn't believe there should be public schools. That in and of itself dismisses libertarianism as idiocy,

if kaz thinks she speaks for what libertarianism is.

Nothing could be more sensible or reasonable than abolishing government schools.

Just for the enlightenment of those who don't live in the U.S., all public school districts here are local, not state or Federal schools, well, except for classes in Federal prisons, I guess. Every single district in the U.S., small or large, is free to entirely ignore Federal mandates, just by not accepting Federal grants and subsidies; almost all of course do accept them, since most locals do want to pay higher local taxes to pay for them, and this includes 'libertarians', ',conservatives', and pretty much most Americans. They just want 'everybody else' to pay for the subsidies, not themselves, kind of like the great 'libertarian' hero Ron Paul was always in the top 5 porksters in Congress for most of his career, and never let a silly thing like principle or ideology get in the way of a lucrative set aside for his own district's voters and his perpetual reelection machine. With 'libertarians' and 'conservatives', it's usually 'all you other people who are causing the problems, not us!', just pay no attention to the fact that they suck them up as fast as anybody else does.

 

[Dad2three]

Please show us ONE successful Collectivist State that has implemented the nonsense you advocate.

US, Germany, Denmark, UK, Switzerland, Japan, etc...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

This board is polluted with your posts ranting how AWFUL life is for the common man in the U.S., so your utopian view could not possibly be represented by the U.S.

The rest are hardly the socialist paradises you envision, as any reading of the news would enable a person with a functioning higher brain functions to comprehend.

I do like Switzerland's mandatory gun ownership - that's good policy.

Oh you change it to utopian? Sorry. Misunderstood that. US 1945-1980? Around 30% unionized, SHARED increase in wages and standards, growing middle class, education system #1 in the world, forward thinking, etc

Then, Reaganomics (myths and fairy tales) took hold



Socialist paradises? ANOTHER premise in one post? Weird.

 

[eagle1462010]

1. Why should we not have a fair or flat tax? Or a consumption tax? It worked before and adheres to the uniformity clause. Everyone pays the same at the same rate. Based on what you make, some pay more and some pay less. Today, those that pay 0 in taxes get Thousands of dollars in Refunds every year. And those that earn more, use loop holes to get out of paying taxes.

2. Why should I have to pay for someone else to own a cell phone. I have to pay for mine, and they should have to do the same. Why should I have to buy rubbers and birth control for others? That's their responsibility. This is how IDIOTIC we've become.

3. Why should we have the same job being performed by several Federal Agencies? One doing so is enough.

4. Why does the Federal Gov't need so much land, and continue to take more from the States? Perhaps because the Federal Gov't has forgotten that it is a servant of We The People, just like the States are servants of the citizens of that state.

5. Why do we allow Bankers to control our currency. They are not needed to sell bonds. The Treasury can do it without being charged a 6% fee.

And so on. Our Gov't needs to be on a leash. They've gone far beyond what they should have the authority to do. They borrow TRILLIONS to kick the can down the road for future generations, and it's time to end the cycle of Self Serving BS.

"1. Why should we not have a fair or flat tax? Or a consumption tax?"


FOUNDERS SUPPORTED A PROGRESSIVE TAXATION METHOD

Founding Fathers wanted to "Spread the Wealth"

SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Business > Dean Calbreath -- 'Spreading the wealth' is nothing new to U.S.


As Jefferson explained: "The farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of this country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings."


Adam Smith, who literally "wrote the book" on capitalism. In 1776, in The Wealth of Nations, Smith wrote:

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it....It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

" It worked before and adheres to the uniformity clause."


AS DOES THE CURRENT SYSTEM


EVERYTHING else is just MORE right wing blather!

I'm throwing a flag on this post. The original was the States had to pay their share of Gov't based on population. The States decided on how to raise the money. The mainstay was tariffs on goods coming and going from foreign lands.

You really spam the hell out of BS Dad.

 

[Dad2three]

You see dad. This is how people like you treat businesses. You mug them before the ball is even near the receiver. In a Libertarian world that is still a penalty. In a liberal one, it's fair to mug the receiver before he the ball gets there. It's called open markets with limited intrusion. Yet you still get no flag or penalty if you play by the rules.

Got it, you'll stick to myths and fairy tales


The Founders believed in carefully delineated federal powers either broad (Hamilton) or limited (Jefferson, sometimes) but all believed in a more powerful state than libertarians purport to believe in. If ever there was a libertarian document it was the Articles of Confederation. There was no national power. The federal government could not tax. Its laws were not supreme over state laws. It was in fact, the hot mess that critics of libertarians believe their dream state would be… and it was recognized as such by the majority of the country and was why the Constitution was ratified. The Articles of Confederation is the true libertarian founding document and this explains the failure of libertarianism.


The Founders Were No Libertarians

No I'm not because you are a one sided troll. That's you mugging the receiver with your anti business and tax the hell out of anything that moves mentality. Your mugging the receiver who in this case is a business. The Gov'ts job is to watch the game and throw flags when people do illegal shit.

Today. The Gov't is grabbing the football and running up the field with it.

LOWEST effective tax burden on Corps in 40+ years, ALL TIME record Corp profits, lowest share of labor costs EVER, and Corps are being mugged?

PLEASE

 

[rightwinger]

Please show us ONE successful Collectivist State that has implemented the nonsense you advocate.

US, Germany, Denmark, UK, Switzerland, Japan, etc...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

This board is polluted with your posts ranting how AWFUL life is for the common man in the U.S., so your utopian view could not possibly be represented by the U.S.

The rest are hardly the socialist paradises you envision, as any reading of the news would enable a person with a functioning higher brain functions to comprehend.

I do like Switzerland's mandatory gun ownership - that's good policy.

Mythbusting: Israel and Switzerland are not gun-toting utopias - The Washington Post

 

[boedicca]

US, Germany, Denmark, UK, Switzerland, Japan, etc...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

This board is polluted with your posts ranting how AWFUL life is for the common man in the U.S., so your utopian view could not possibly be represented by the U.S.

The rest are hardly the socialist paradises you envision, as any reading of the news would enable a person with a functioning higher brain functions to comprehend.

I do like Switzerland's mandatory gun ownership - that's good policy.

Oh you change it to utopian? Sorry. Misunderstood that. US 1945-1980? Around 30% unionized, SHARED increase in wages and standards, growing middle class, education system #1 in the world, forward thinking, etc

Then, Reaganomics (myths and fairy tales) took hold



Socialist paradises? ANOTHER premise in one post? Weird.

The things you mention about the U.S.: increase in wages and standards, growing middle class, education system... have absolutely nothing to do with Socialist principles.

 

[dblack]

You would think that the first principle of libertarianism would be unequivocal respect for the will of the People.

Actually, it is. What confuses you is that we respect the will of ALL of the people, not just the majority.

So you want everyone to be a winner, like the kids' sports they play now without keeping score?

How can you, for example, decide what the law should be on abortion, if you have to respect both the people who want it legal and the people who want it illegal?

NY - I'm not sure how to communicate this concept to you. I've tried before, and at this point I'm not sure I can. What I'm talking about is respecting each and every person's individual will, and not violating it with government coercion unless it's truly necessary - to protect the right of other to exercise their will, for example. Also, implicit in my position, is that no one has a right to force their will on others, regardless of whether they have the majority behind them or not.

 

[Picaro]

Dad2three makes the very common moonbat mistake of assuming that Libertarianism is Anarchy.

Nope, pointing out OVER AND OVER, libertarianism NEVER works. You can't point to ONE state or nation to EVER use it successfully. Weird? lol

Well, it's ridiculously unfair to expect people to to point to something that never existed in real life, outside of say, Somalia.

Somebody brought up something about 'Fair Tax' bills? I've read at least 11 of them, and there is nothing 'fair' about them. I guess I just shouldn't read them all the way through, so I could pretend to be for 'fair taxes n stuff', too. It's a lot easier to be for 'fair taxes' if you don't actually read the bills proposed.

 

[Dad2three]

1. Why should we not have a fair or flat tax? Or a consumption tax? It worked before and adheres to the uniformity clause. Everyone pays the same at the same rate. Based on what you make, some pay more and some pay less. Today, those that pay 0 in taxes get Thousands of dollars in Refunds every year. And those that earn more, use loop holes to get out of paying taxes.

2. Why should I have to pay for someone else to own a cell phone. I have to pay for mine, and they should have to do the same. Why should I have to buy rubbers and birth control for others? That's their responsibility. This is how IDIOTIC we've become.

3. Why should we have the same job being performed by several Federal Agencies? One doing so is enough.

4. Why does the Federal Gov't need so much land, and continue to take more from the States? Perhaps because the Federal Gov't has forgotten that it is a servant of We The People, just like the States are servants of the citizens of that state.

5. Why do we allow Bankers to control our currency. They are not needed to sell bonds. The Treasury can do it without being charged a 6% fee.

And so on. Our Gov't needs to be on a leash. They've gone far beyond what they should have the authority to do. They borrow TRILLIONS to kick the can down the road for future generations, and it's time to end the cycle of Self Serving BS.

"1. Why should we not have a fair or flat tax? Or a consumption tax?"


FOUNDERS SUPPORTED A PROGRESSIVE TAXATION METHOD

Founding Fathers wanted to "Spread the Wealth"

SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Business > Dean Calbreath -- 'Spreading the wealth' is nothing new to U.S.


As Jefferson explained: "The farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of this country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings."


Adam Smith, who literally "wrote the book" on capitalism. In 1776, in The Wealth of Nations, Smith wrote:

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it....It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

" It worked before and adheres to the uniformity clause."


AS DOES THE CURRENT SYSTEM


EVERYTHING else is just MORE right wing blather!

I'm throwing a flag on this post. The original was the States had to pay their share of Gov't based on population. The States decided on how to raise the money. The mainstay was tariffs on goods coming and going from foreign lands.

You really spam the hell out of BS Dad.

Yeah, they got rid of that states thing FOR the STRONG FEDERAL GOV'T CONSTITUTION.


Spam? Answering other comments bullshit premises is spam *shaking head*

 

[eagle1462010]

Got it, you'll stick to myths and fairy tales


The Founders believed in carefully delineated federal powers either broad (Hamilton) or limited (Jefferson, sometimes) but all believed in a more powerful state than libertarians purport to believe in. If ever there was a libertarian document it was the Articles of Confederation. There was no national power. The federal government could not tax. Its laws were not supreme over state laws. It was in fact, the hot mess that critics of libertarians believe their dream state would be… and it was recognized as such by the majority of the country and was why the Constitution was ratified. The Articles of Confederation is the true libertarian founding document and this explains the failure of libertarianism.


The Founders Were No Libertarians

No I'm not because you are a one sided troll. That's you mugging the receiver with your anti business and tax the hell out of anything that moves mentality. Your mugging the receiver who in this case is a business. The Gov'ts job is to watch the game and throw flags when people do illegal shit.

Today. The Gov't is grabbing the football and running up the field with it.

LOWEST effective tax burden on Corps in 40+ years, ALL TIME record Corp profits, lowest share of labor costs EVER, and Corps are being mugged?

PLEASE

Those record profits and revenues did something in 2008 also..........Didn't they...........

Amazing what you can do with 4.5 Trillion from the Fed into the markets, while taking .25% loans from the Reserve to play on Wall Street. It's a Fiat machine, with minimal real Recovery.

I could post the labor participation rate, but you'd just ignore it.

 

[rightwinger]

Can anyone identify the small government utopia we should base ourselves on?

 

[Dad2three]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

This board is polluted with your posts ranting how AWFUL life is for the common man in the U.S., so your utopian view could not possibly be represented by the U.S.

The rest are hardly the socialist paradises you envision, as any reading of the news would enable a person with a functioning higher brain functions to comprehend.

I do like Switzerland's mandatory gun ownership - that's good policy.

Oh you change it to utopian? Sorry. Misunderstood that. US 1945-1980? Around 30% unionized, SHARED increase in wages and standards, growing middle class, education system #1 in the world, forward thinking, etc

Then, Reaganomics (myths and fairy tales) took hold



Socialist paradises? ANOTHER premise in one post? Weird.

The things you mention about the U.S.: increase in wages and standards, growing middle class, education system... have absolutely nothing to do with Socialist principles.

Nah, it had to do with PROGRESSIVE POLICIES from the likes of Teddy, FDR, Ike, etc....

YOU KNOW HOW MOST OF THE US WAS BUILT?

 

[eagle1462010]

Can anyone identify the small government utopia we should base ourselves on?

The Constitution. Remember that thing?

Hello..................