What is a small government libertarian?

[Fenton Lum]

Liberals like to say they don't know what a small government libertarian is. I believe it's pretty clear. No, we are not all the same, but I think when I talk to small government libertarians these are generally agreed upon. Please comment those of you who consider yourself small government libertarian on what you agree and disagree on.

Definition: Note I said "small government" libertarian. I realize many anarchists call themselves "libertarian." I'm not knocking them and of course they are free to participate, I am just not speaking about anarchy here, I am speaking about those of us who want government minimized, not eliminated.

So, here is my definition. I believe these should be the primary functions of government:

1) Military - protecting the country entire country.
2) Police - Enforcing the laws.
3) Civil courts - To resolve contractual and other disputes between citizens.
4) Criminal courts & prisons - to dispense justice for fraud and other criminal acts
5) Roads - To acquire and manage the massive land requirements to move freely about the country
6) Management of limited resources - Access to and distribution of things like water
7) Recognition of property rights - Land, possessions and so forth.

Having these expand my liberty and they only work when there is general recognition of how they are managed. For example, having to sit in a tower all day with a gun to protect my land and my family, courts ruling's not being accepted except voluntarily, people putting toll booths on roads going through their own property, people hoarding water and extorting their neighbors and an inability to sell my home because there is no generally accepted recognition of my borders would reduce and not expand my liberty.

Issues I see the most disagreement on:

1) Abortion. I am like most libertarians I know pro-choice. However, I do see a lot of libertarians who are pro-life. While I do understand their view the baby is a life, I do not understand their view government can force the mother to provide her body to it. However, I understand they do believe it's murder and therefore the job of the criminal justice system.

2) Military. Most libertarians I know think the military should be used only for defense. Almost all libertarians think we use our military far to excessively. However, I do see disagreement with how far we should go in being proactive. I personally think our proactive policies frequently cause that which they were meant to avoid, but it is an area I see disagreement.

3) Taxes. All libertarians I know think our current system is preposterous. Libertarians generally would eliminate the income tax. I support the fair tax, that is not universally accepted by libertarians, which I don't understand because it is the most logical, economically efficient tax. All taxes are taxes on the economy. Therefore, it is logical to have one flat tax on the economy rather than a myriad of indirect taxes. But for whatever reason many libertarians don't grasp that. Libertarians who do support income tax in my experience always support a flat tax.

We are not Republicans because:

1) Social - we are against government morality laws, with the exception of some pro-lifers discussed above.

2) Military - we want smaller, less used military

3) Fiscal - we are fiscal conservatives, we don't just talk about fiscal conservatism.

Liberals are authoritarian leftists, we have nothing in common with them. They believe government force is the solution to every problem.

My view. Please comment.

Typical "conservative" bullshit.

It is? What did I say that is conservative and not libertarian?

Some of you folks being embarrassed about being “conservative” have attempted to rebrand yourselves, and that is all.

So you can't answer the question so you're evading. So if what you say is true, simple question, "What did I say that is conservative and not libertarian?" I gave you not only a summary but a whole list of my views. And you called me conservative. Yet you can't find anything on the list that is conservative and not libertarian? LOL, glass jaw, you went down on the first punch ...

All those terms have been intentionally sodomized; they're meaningless, like your argument. Your "libertarianism" is a fantasy here. Taxes are going nowhere, there is merely an endless pursuit on the part of the substantial people to use their concentrated wealth and power to push legislation that requires nothing of them but reigning over the unsubstantial people.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Someone that lets businesses do as they damn well please and hates maintaining the country...

Pretty much someone that thinks the corporate world should do it all.

You don't grasp free markets. In free markets, companies can do what they want. When they do bad things, their customers leave them, their employees quit, and they are replaced by companies that don't do that.

In your socialist system, bad companies get bailed out by government and thrive by paying them off and contributing to their campaigns. It is in reality you who victimizes people by propping up bad companies with the force of government.

In your socialist system, bad companies get bailed out by government and thrive by paying them off and contributing to their campaigns. It is in reality you who victimizes people by propping up bad companies with the force of government.

Ah, so it's like capitalism with Wall Street, across both "conservative" and "liberal" adminstrations. hmmmmmmmmmm.

I want to prop up companies? You are ... full ... of ... shit and just making it up as you go. I want companies that are failing hitting the pavement without a net. You're just making up your shit

And that certainly does not happen under "conservatives" or "liberals" here, does it now. Because everyone in the american political game ultimately serves the same cohort, the aristocracy.

You didn't say the current system, you said it's what I want to do. Show in my thread which listed my views what position I support that would prop up any company. I'm a capitalist, where bad companies fail. You are so full of shit. You can't even back up your ridiculous claims when all the information is right in front of you. I listed my positions. And you got nothing but making shit up

It's just reality and you want to discuss fantasy.

 

[kaz]

Liberals like to say they don't know what a small government libertarian is. I believe it's pretty clear. No, we are not all the same, but I think when I talk to small government libertarians these are generally agreed upon. Please comment those of you who consider yourself small government libertarian on what you agree and disagree on.

Definition: Note I said "small government" libertarian. I realize many anarchists call themselves "libertarian." I'm not knocking them and of course they are free to participate, I am just not speaking about anarchy here, I am speaking about those of us who want government minimized, not eliminated.

So, here is my definition. I believe these should be the primary functions of government:

1) Military - protecting the country entire country.
2) Police - Enforcing the laws.
3) Civil courts - To resolve contractual and other disputes between citizens.
4) Criminal courts & prisons - to dispense justice for fraud and other criminal acts
5) Roads - To acquire and manage the massive land requirements to move freely about the country
6) Management of limited resources - Access to and distribution of things like water
7) Recognition of property rights - Land, possessions and so forth.

Having these expand my liberty and they only work when there is general recognition of how they are managed. For example, having to sit in a tower all day with a gun to protect my land and my family, courts ruling's not being accepted except voluntarily, people putting toll booths on roads going through their own property, people hoarding water and extorting their neighbors and an inability to sell my home because there is no generally accepted recognition of my borders would reduce and not expand my liberty.

Issues I see the most disagreement on:

1) Abortion. I am like most libertarians I know pro-choice. However, I do see a lot of libertarians who are pro-life. While I do understand their view the baby is a life, I do not understand their view government can force the mother to provide her body to it. However, I understand they do believe it's murder and therefore the job of the criminal justice system.

2) Military. Most libertarians I know think the military should be used only for defense. Almost all libertarians think we use our military far to excessively. However, I do see disagreement with how far we should go in being proactive. I personally think our proactive policies frequently cause that which they were meant to avoid, but it is an area I see disagreement.

3) Taxes. All libertarians I know think our current system is preposterous. Libertarians generally would eliminate the income tax. I support the fair tax, that is not universally accepted by libertarians, which I don't understand because it is the most logical, economically efficient tax. All taxes are taxes on the economy. Therefore, it is logical to have one flat tax on the economy rather than a myriad of indirect taxes. But for whatever reason many libertarians don't grasp that. Libertarians who do support income tax in my experience always support a flat tax.

We are not Republicans because:

1) Social - we are against government morality laws, with the exception of some pro-lifers discussed above.

2) Military - we want smaller, less used military

3) Fiscal - we are fiscal conservatives, we don't just talk about fiscal conservatism.

Liberals are authoritarian leftists, we have nothing in common with them. They believe government force is the solution to every problem.

My view. Please comment.

Typical "conservative" bullshit.

It is? What did I say that is conservative and not libertarian?

Some of you folks being embarrassed about being “conservative” have attempted to rebrand yourselves, and that is all.

So you can't answer the question so you're evading. So if what you say is true, simple question, "What did I say that is conservative and not libertarian?" I gave you not only a summary but a whole list of my views. And you called me conservative. Yet you can't find anything on the list that is conservative and not libertarian? LOL, glass jaw, you went down on the first punch ...

All those terms have been intentionally sodomized; they're meaningless, like your argument. Your "libertarianism" is a fantasy here. Taxes are going nowhere, there is merely an endless pursuit on the part of the substantial people to use their concentrated wealth and power to push legislation that requires nothing of them but reigning over the unsubstantial people.

So if you don't think it's worth debating anything because it's not going to change anything, you're on a ... message board ... why again? Moron

 

[kaz]

You don't grasp free markets. In free markets, companies can do what they want. When they do bad things, their customers leave them, their employees quit, and they are replaced by companies that don't do that.

In your socialist system, bad companies get bailed out by government and thrive by paying them off and contributing to their campaigns. It is in reality you who victimizes people by propping up bad companies with the force of government.

In your socialist system, bad companies get bailed out by government and thrive by paying them off and contributing to their campaigns. It is in reality you who victimizes people by propping up bad companies with the force of government.

Ah, so it's like capitalism with Wall Street, across both "conservative" and "liberal" adminstrations. hmmmmmmmmmm.

I want to prop up companies? You are ... full ... of ... shit and just making it up as you go. I want companies that are failing hitting the pavement without a net. You're just making up your shit

And that certainly does not happen under "conservatives" or "liberals" here, does it now. Because everyone in the american political game ultimately serves the same cohort, the aristocracy.

You didn't say the current system, you said it's what I want to do. Show in my thread which listed my views what position I support that would prop up any company. I'm a capitalist, where bad companies fail. You are so full of shit. You can't even back up your ridiculous claims when all the information is right in front of you. I listed my positions. And you got nothing but making shit up

It's just reality and you want to discuss fantasy.

Yes, you mentioned that. We need to stop debating because we won't change anything. Which is why of course you're here. Moron

 

[Fenton Lum]

In your socialist system, bad companies get bailed out by government and thrive by paying them off and contributing to their campaigns. It is in reality you who victimizes people by propping up bad companies with the force of government.

Ah, so it's like capitalism with Wall Street, across both "conservative" and "liberal" adminstrations. hmmmmmmmmmm.

I want to prop up companies? You are ... full ... of ... shit and just making it up as you go. I want companies that are failing hitting the pavement without a net. You're just making up your shit

And that certainly does not happen under "conservatives" or "liberals" here, does it now. Because everyone in the american political game ultimately serves the same cohort, the aristocracy.

You didn't say the current system, you said it's what I want to do. Show in my thread which listed my views what position I support that would prop up any company. I'm a capitalist, where bad companies fail. You are so full of shit. You can't even back up your ridiculous claims when all the information is right in front of you. I listed my positions. And you got nothing but making shit up

It's just reality and you want to discuss fantasy.

Yes, you mentioned that. We need to stop debating because we won't change anything. Which is why of course you're here. Moron

I'm not the one who thinks a chat board is the solutuion, that's yours hon.

 

[kaz]

I want to prop up companies? You are ... full ... of ... shit and just making it up as you go. I want companies that are failing hitting the pavement without a net. You're just making up your shit

And that certainly does not happen under "conservatives" or "liberals" here, does it now. Because everyone in the american political game ultimately serves the same cohort, the aristocracy.

You didn't say the current system, you said it's what I want to do. Show in my thread which listed my views what position I support that would prop up any company. I'm a capitalist, where bad companies fail. You are so full of shit. You can't even back up your ridiculous claims when all the information is right in front of you. I listed my positions. And you got nothing but making shit up

It's just reality and you want to discuss fantasy.

Yes, you mentioned that. We need to stop debating because we won't change anything. Which is why of course you're here. Moron

I'm not the one who thinks a chat board is the solutuion, that's yours hon.

Strawman, girlfriend, how the hell did you get that out of what I said? You'd have to be a complete and utter moron to read what I said and get that out of it.

Aahhh, never mind, answered my own question ...

 

[thereisnospoon]

Liberals like to say they don't know what a small government libertarian is. I believe it's pretty clear. No, we are not all the same, but I think when I talk to small government libertarians these are generally agreed upon. Please comment those of you who consider yourself small government libertarian on what you agree and disagree on.

Definition: Note I said "small government" libertarian. I realize many anarchists call themselves "libertarian." I'm not knocking them and of course they are free to participate, I am just not speaking about anarchy here, I am speaking about those of us who want government minimized, not eliminated.

So, here is my definition. I believe these should be the primary functions of government:

1) Military - protecting the country entire country.
2) Police - Enforcing the laws.
3) Civil courts - To resolve contractual and other disputes between citizens.
4) Criminal courts & prisons - to dispense justice for fraud and other criminal acts
5) Roads - To acquire and manage the massive land requirements to move freely about the country
6) Management of limited resources - Access to and distribution of things like water
7) Recognition of property rights - Land, possessions and so forth.

Having these expand my liberty and they only work when there is general recognition of how they are managed. For example, having to sit in a tower all day with a gun to protect my land and my family, courts ruling's not being accepted except voluntarily, people putting toll booths on roads going through their own property, people hoarding water and extorting their neighbors and an inability to sell my home because there is no generally accepted recognition of my borders would reduce and not expand my liberty.

Issues I see the most disagreement on:

1) Abortion. I am like most libertarians I know pro-choice. However, I do see a lot of libertarians who are pro-life. While I do understand their view the baby is a life, I do not understand their view government can force the mother to provide her body to it. However, I understand they do believe it's murder and therefore the job of the criminal justice system.

2) Military. Most libertarians I know think the military should be used only for defense. Almost all libertarians think we use our military far to excessively. However, I do see disagreement with how far we should go in being proactive. I personally think our proactive policies frequently cause that which they were meant to avoid, but it is an area I see disagreement.

3) Taxes. All libertarians I know think our current system is preposterous. Libertarians generally would eliminate the income tax. I support the fair tax, that is not universally accepted by libertarians, which I don't understand because it is the most logical, economically efficient tax. All taxes are taxes on the economy. Therefore, it is logical to have one flat tax on the economy rather than a myriad of indirect taxes. But for whatever reason many libertarians don't grasp that. Libertarians who do support income tax in my experience always support a flat tax.

We are not Republicans because:

1) Social - we are against government morality laws, with the exception of some pro-lifers discussed above.

2) Military - we want smaller, less used military

3) Fiscal - we are fiscal conservatives, we don't just talk about fiscal conservatism.

Liberals are authoritarian leftists, we have nothing in common with them. They believe government force is the solution to every problem.

My view. Please comment.

Typical "conservative" bullshit.

Gee, way to address the post!