What do you think of MNS?

[hadit]

I was just listening to a brief discussion on Mandatory National Service, and I don't remember ever hearing a partisan political discussion about it. Things are so divided now that pretty much everything automatically falls under Red or Blue categories. I don't know where this topic falls.

Working definition: Mandatory national service (also called compulsory service) is a requirement, generally issued by the federal government, that people serve in the military or complete other works of service, most often as young people but age requirements vary. Modern propositions for compulsory service in the United States include young Americans serving in the military or working on civilian projects such as teaching in low-income areas, helping seniors, or maintaining infrastructure, among other ideas. (Mandatory National Service)

Personally, I think that we've seen a breakdown in our culture in general, and that no group has been more adversely affected by it than teens. Many/most of them seem to me to be entirely disconnected from some of the core principles than most of us older folks take for granted.

Serving a year or two in some civilian projects would also give young people a chance to mix with each other and (hopefully) understand each other a little better.

Thoughts?

Preferably between high school and college. Would cut down significantly on goofing off and partying in college as people have some real-life experience on how the world really works and what's required to succeed.

 

[Mac1958]

Preferably between high school and college. Would cut down significantly on goofing off and partying in college as people have some real-life experience on how the world really works and what's required to succeed.

I'd think a lot of lower-income families would see the value in getting those kids in solid, accountable, somewhat disciplined environments. And hell, higher-income families might welcome having their kids with their nose in it, too.

 

[jc456]

Watch a few TikTok videos to get a sample of where 18-24 year olds heads are at. They would rather jump off a roof in a chicken suit than serve in the military.

they'd rather cut their junk off than that.

 

[alang1216]

From what I've seen on this thread so far, this is a rare case of something not being one or the other.

There would be a shitload of details to work through, but I think it's at least worth a serious conversation.

I don't see it ever happening, the GOP is too focused on tax cuts to fund a big Federal program. The Dems would gladly fund it as a way of getting people out of their urban or rural environments. The military doesn't need more temporary soldiers but sending rural kids to a city and city kids to farms or parks may prove to be a good thing for everyone.

 

[White 6]

Seems Russian, somehow...

No, not really. My dad told me about work done under the CCC ( Civilian Conservation Corps) and the WPA (Works Progress Administration), though none of my family were directly involve, due to being large family farmers. These were New Deal programs, under President Franklin D. Roosevelt to aid recovery from Great Depression with jobs that would get the disadvantaged off of soup lines, teaching them skills for a low pay rate, working on projects that directly benefitted local communities and the nation as a whole, at a time when private industry could not generate jobs and training programs to do it.

CCC was actually run by the US Army, using regular and reserve officers, especially Engineer Officers, over the camps and projects and the unskilled manual labor force, doing all kinds of conservation engineering projects completed under the program, that continue to benefit our national parks to this very day. It was not competing with big business (itself struggling at the time) for out of work labor or to produce an economic marketable product or competing for industrial recourses, as a command economy, such as the case with your reference to communism. Beside the national benefit of the conservation projects themselves, it produced and trained workers, used to working, and with newly acquired skills that made them of value to private industry after the programs ended.

WPA was also involved in using uneducated, unskilled dormant labor at low wage (far below industry standards at the time. This one could be considered competing with private business construction as it built something like 6,200 miles of roads and streets, over 10,000 bridges (quite a few were stone built arch bridges still around and in use as local landmarks), as well as building airports and landing strips, schools, courthouses, also providing labor and management of the wartime internment camps used at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Conservation_Corps​

 

[g5000]

Americans support mandatory national service

The program description and question posed was this: “Would you support or oppose the following proposal? All citizens and permanent residents (Green Card holders) will be required to participate in an 18-month National Service program. Service can be started any time between an individual’s 18th [and] 22nd birthday. Service shall include healthcare assistance, infrastructure/environmental repair, early childhood education programs, eldercare assistance, or military service. Participation in the military option shall be voluntary. National service participants shall receive free communal room, board, and a subsistence allowance. Participants shall receive $10,000 upon successful completion of their service. People who fail to successfully complete their National Service obligation shall not be eligible for any Federal student loan or mortgage guarantee program.”

Today, fully 75 percent of all young people aged 18-24 — those in the group most affected by the proposal — support that idea. People slightly older (25-37) support it even more: 80 percent are in favor. Older adults are also in favor. Sixty-two percent of people 38-44 — the largest group of parents of those expected to serve favor it, and 56 percent of people 45-64 are in support as well. No demographic reflected a majority in opposition.

Who will make my cheeseburgers at McDonald's if they are all off building public restrooms in our national parks?

 

[Mac1958]

No, not really. My dad told me about work done under the CCC ( Civilian Conservation Corps) and the WPA (Works Progress Administration), though none of my family were directly involve, due to being large family farmers. These were New Deal programs, under President Franklin D. Roosevelt to aid recovery from Great Depression with jobs that would get the disadvantaged off of soup lines, teaching them skills for a low pay rate, working on projects that directly benefitted local communities and the nation as a whole, at a time when private industry could not generate jobs and training programs to do it.

CCC was actually run by the US Army, using regular and reserve officers, especially Engineer Officers, over the camps and projects and the unskilled manual labor force, doing all kinds of conservation engineering projects completed under the program, that continue to benefit our national parks to this very day. It was not competing with big business (itself struggling at the time) for out of work labor or to produce an economic marketable product or competing for industrial recourses, as a command economy, such as the case with your reference to communism. Beside the national benefit of the conservation projects themselves, it produced and trained workers, used to working, and with newly acquired skills that made them of value to private industry after the programs ended.

WPA was also involved in using uneducated, unskilled dormant labor at low wage (far below industry standards at the time. This one could be considered competing with private business construction as it built something like 6,200 miles of roads and streets, over 10,000 bridges (quite a few were stone built arch bridges still around and in use as local landmarks), as well as building airports and landing strips, schools, courthouses, also providing labor and management of the wartime internment camps used at the time.

Civilian Conservation Corps - Wikipedia​

If I let my imagination wander a bit, such a program could also include some kind of vocational training that still provides a service to the public, such as apprenticeships. Maybe corporations would be willing to sponsor programs to develop a pool of candidates.

This is all just dreaming, of course, since we're not capable of doing big things any more.

 

[Mac1958]

Who will make my cheeseburgers at McDonald's if they are all off building public restrooms in our national parks?

DAMMIT

DIDN'T THINK OF THAT

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Make it fun, a cool thing to do some sort of service...use tik tok

but keep it voluntary

No, that's what we're trying to get away from.

 

[kyzr]

They dont have to like it
Young men have been expected to defend the country since the founding
And that has not changed

Let the military decide. I vote no. If we run short of volunteers then yes. So far Pete has recruitment meeting goals.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

It's a good idea but I wouldn't walk on a sidewalk that the govt engineered.

 

[g5000]

It's a good idea but I wouldn't walk on a sidewalk that the govt engineered.

You do every day.

 

[hadit]

Who will make my cheeseburgers at McDonald's if they are all off building public restrooms in our national parks?

A machine that does it faster and better than a human could.

 

[kyzr]

If I let my imagination wander a bit, such a program could also include some kind of vocational training that still provides a service to the public, such as apprenticeships. Maybe corporations would be willing to sponsor programs to develop a pool of candidates.
This is all just dreaming, of course, since we're not capable of doing big things any more.

Refocus on Trump's bringing back manufacturing plants to the US.
To be successful these plants will need good workers.
OTOH AI will replace many workers, so there may be an idle group of workers to do WPA/CCC type projects.
Democrats were discussing a "basic income" for the unemployed, having a work requirement seems logical, to get your unemployment or welfare check, do some work, learn a skill.

 

[leftwinger]

From what I've seen on this thread so far, this is a rare case of something not being one or the other.

There would be a shitload of details to work through, but I think it's at least worth a serious conversation.

Fits right in with your undeniable worship of increased communism & socialism in the USA. Also an attempt to change the subject off your 100s' of recent wrong board position losses you dumb OX. You don't fool anyone.

 

[kyzr]

It's a good idea but I wouldn't walk on a sidewalk that the govt engineered.

Its not the engineering, its always being built by the lowest bidder.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Its not the engineering, its always being built by the lowest bidder.

Yeah, I'll even take the lowest bidder over something govt built though.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

You do every day.

Not by actual employees. Contractors.

 

[leftwinger]

Here is a candidate. He will be an honored member. IM2

 

[MisterBeale]

On the other hand, I graduated from a high school built by WPA, as was the courthouse in that town. I have hiked many a trail cut by the CCC. Was there waste involve? I am sure, though it was many years before I was born.

Definition of MANDATORY

required by a law or rule : obligatory; of, by, relating to, or holding a League of Nations mandate… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Works Progress Administration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Civilian Conservation Corps - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The OP clearly stated, "mandatory." We already have voluntary service for the young, in both the US military, and Americorps.

We are talking about something entirely different here.