What is a Patriot?

[Contumacious]

Sorry, if the government is providing me a good or service, they are the ones responding to me, not the other way around.

If health care is REALLY important to you what the **** prevented you from contacting Aetna, BCBS, Cigna, etc on your own?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


.

Well, that's the thing. I did contact Cigna. Paid them a lot of money for coverage or worked for that coverage.

And then when the doctors said I needed an operation, Cigna fought me for a year getting me to go to specialists to prove it was necessary.

When they finally gave in and let me have the operation, the next task was to get me off the payroll at my job. Except they didn't have cause, so they kept reorganizing the company until they could eliminate my position.

And at the end of the day, I'll still be getting my insurance from a greedy corporation.

They just aren't allowed to cheat me anymore.

Sounds like bullshit.

At any rate , fedgov will continue to demand crazy concessions from the insurance companies until they will either go bankrupt like the federal government or demand or demand immunity . Or they will be abolished and the federal government will be the only provider.

Either way we will be fucked.

.

 

[Toro]

Well, that's the thing. I did contact Cigna. Paid them a lot of money for coverage or worked for that coverage.

And then when the doctors said I needed an operation, Cigna fought me for a year getting me to go to specialists to prove it was necessary.

When they finally gave in and let me have the operation, the next task was to get me off the payroll at my job. Except they didn't have cause, so they kept reorganizing the company until they could eliminate my position.

Wait a second. Are you saying that Cigna tried to get you off the payroll? Who is "they?"

 

[JoeB131]

If health care is REALLY important to you what the **** prevented you from contacting Aetna, BCBS, Cigna, etc on your own?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


.

Well, that's the thing. I did contact Cigna. Paid them a lot of money for coverage or worked for that coverage.

And then when the doctors said I needed an operation, Cigna fought me for a year getting me to go to specialists to prove it was necessary.

When they finally gave in and let me have the operation, the next task was to get me off the payroll at my job. Except they didn't have cause, so they kept reorganizing the company until they could eliminate my position.

And at the end of the day, I'll still be getting my insurance from a greedy corporation.

They just aren't allowed to cheat me anymore.

Sounds like bullshit.

At any rate , fedgov will continue to demand crazy concessions from the insurance companies until they will either go bankrupt like the federal government or demand or demand immunity . Or they will be abolished and the federal government will be the only provider.

Either way we will be fucked.

.

YOu mean we might be like Canada or the UK or Japan, all of whom have single payer, and they live longer, have a lower infant mortality rate, no one goes bankrupt due to a medical crisis?

Oh, the horror of it all.

Sorry, telling someone "You are costing us too much money, we have an 8-figure salary to pay our CEO*, so just die already" isn't a "crazy Concession".

Back when I was growing up, we called it "Common Decency". you should look it up some time.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, that's the thing. I did contact Cigna. Paid them a lot of money for coverage or worked for that coverage.

And then when the doctors said I needed an operation, Cigna fought me for a year getting me to go to specialists to prove it was necessary.

When they finally gave in and let me have the operation, the next task was to get me off the payroll at my job. Except they didn't have cause, so they kept reorganizing the company until they could eliminate my position.

Wait a second. Are you saying that Cigna tried to get you off the payroll? Who is "they?"

Yes, I'm saying that EXACTLY. At this company, if you got injured, you got pregnant, you had any kind of chronic medical issue, they found a way to get you off the payroll...

This is what I've been saying for TWO ******* YEARS here.

 

[Toro]

Well, that's the thing. I did contact Cigna. Paid them a lot of money for coverage or worked for that coverage.

And then when the doctors said I needed an operation, Cigna fought me for a year getting me to go to specialists to prove it was necessary.

When they finally gave in and let me have the operation, the next task was to get me off the payroll at my job. Except they didn't have cause, so they kept reorganizing the company until they could eliminate my position.

Wait a second. Are you saying that Cigna tried to get you off the payroll? Who is "they?"

Yes, I'm saying that EXACTLY. At this company, if you got injured, you got pregnant, you had any kind of chronic medical issue, they found a way to get you off the payroll...

This is what I've been saying for TWO ******* YEARS here.

Cigna ordered your company to fire you? Is that what you're saying?

 

[JoeB131]

Wait a second. Are you saying that Cigna tried to get you off the payroll? Who is "they?"

Yes, I'm saying that EXACTLY. At this company, if you got injured, you got pregnant, you had any kind of chronic medical issue, they found a way to get you off the payroll...

This is what I've been saying for TWO ******* YEARS here.

Cigna ordered your company to fire you? Is that what you're saying?

Oh, I'm sure they didn't bother mentioning me BY NAME. I'm sure it was, "Employee #45987 in Chicago has run up $50,000 in medical claims in 2007, get him off the payroll."

In fact, the office manager at the company pretty much told me that's exactly what happened.

 

[Toro]

Yes, I'm saying that EXACTLY. At this company, if you got injured, you got pregnant, you had any kind of chronic medical issue, they found a way to get you off the payroll...

This is what I've been saying for TWO ******* YEARS here.

Cigna ordered your company to fire you? Is that what you're saying?

Oh, I'm sure they didn't bother mentioning me BY NAME. I'm sure it was, "Employee #45987 in Chicago has run up $50,000 in medical claims in 2007, get him off the payroll."

In fact, the office manager at the company pretty much told me that's exactly what happened.

That sucks.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, it does.

Hense why I stopped being a Republican and a supporter of big corporations and their greed.

 

[Yurt]

i'm positive joeb is a liar

 

[JoeB131]

i'm positive joeb is a liar

I'm positive Yurt is retarded.

 

[Montecresto]

The mistake of the lefties and righties who detest the drones is one of philosophy instead of recognizing that it is a technological tool all presidents would have used if they could. Imagine what the Allies could have done with extensive use of drone and helicopter in WWII.

this is a ridiculous post. the issue with drones is using them on american citizens. no one, left or right, has an issue with drones used against foreign enemies.

stay in touch gramps....

On what authority do you have it that "no one, left or right, has an issue with drones........." ?? Those killed are "alleged enemy combatants", grandma and nursing mothers, mourners at funerals, first responders etc., many of us do have a problem with that, even if none of them are Americans.

 

[impalero]

FBI ? Terrorism Definition

It's not irrelevent to the people living where drones are flying and you know god-damn well it wouldn't be irrelevent to you if they were flying over your head.

The definition of terrorism varies between various countries expressly for the purpose of political and military objectives.

Did the definition of terrorism exist before our benevolent government created theirs?

I can assure you that if we were to get into a war with China, many in our country would prefer a typical land invasion rather than drones flying over our heads lobbing bombs hither and thither.

Regardless of what countries definition we use, the oldest definition that predates any countries politically motivated and emotionally charged definition would surely apply when bombs are raining down over my and other citizens heads.

And we would be calling it terrorists attacks (for political and emotional effect) then, the same as the attacks we carry out on other countries in the world.

There is neither an academic nor an international legal consensus regarding the definition of the term "terrorism".[1][2] Various legal systems and government agencies use different definitions of "terrorism". Moreover, the international community has been slow to formulate a universally agreed upon, legally binding definition of this crime. These difficulties arise from the fact that the term "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged.[3]

 

[impalero]

At any rate , fedgov will continue to demand crazy concessions from the insurance companies until they will either go bankrupt like the federal government or demand or demand immunity . Or they will be abolished and the federal government will be the only provider.

Either way we will be fucked.

.

I would not be so sure about that.
With the number of Bankers and Corporate CEO's rotating between DC and their respective industry, not to mention the lobbyists, they know exactly what they are doing and it will be the 99.5% of the rest of the country paying for it.


Health Insurance and Big Pharma are at the top of the list when it comes to Government Bribes.

Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

Top Lobbying Industries

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $2,674,746,491
Insurance $1,882,737,777
Electric Utilities $1,766,328,678
Business Associations $1,541,467,615
Computers/Internet $1,466,512,472
Oil & Gas $1,441,445,945
Education $1,228,469,956
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $1,227,879,461
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $1,139,014,225
TV/Movies/Music $1,112,940,948
Civil Servants/Public Officials $1,070,589,802
Securities & Investment $1,062,527,936
Real Estate $1,041,957,781
Health Professionals $1,005,366,589
Air Transport $955,458,287
Misc Issues $821,661,956
Automotive $777,914,039
Telephone Utilities $749,693,309
Telecom Services & Equipment $743,821,349
Health Services/HMOs $698,561,723

 

[Billo_Really]

The definition of terrorism varies between various countries expressly for the purpose of political and military objectives.

Did the definition of terrorism exist before our benevolent government created theirs?

I can assure you that if we were to get into a war with China, many in our country would prefer a typical land invasion rather than drones flying over our heads lobbing bombs hither and thither.

Regardless of what countries definition we use, the oldest definition that predates any countries politically motivated and emotionally charged definition would surely apply when bombs are raining down over my and other citizens heads.

And we would be calling it terrorists attacks (for political and emotional effect) then, the same as the attacks we carry out on other countries in the world.

There is neither an academic nor an international legal consensus regarding the definition of the term "terrorism".[1][2] Various legal systems and government agencies use different definitions of "terrorism". Moreover, the international community has been slow to formulate a universally agreed upon, legally binding definition of this crime. These difficulties arise from the fact that the term "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged.[3]

Exactly! One of our American values is "empathy". Everyone has a right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. Being a patriot to this country, means you embrace that ideology. You demonstrate that ideology. You live that ideology. We're also a country based on the rule of law. And the keystone principle for that is we believe no one should be punished for a crime they did not commit. Those drones are punishing a whole lot of people that didn't do anything wrong.

But for whatever reason, there are many American's who cannot fathom the notion we are exporting our own brand of terrorism. That we commit terrorist acts. That these drone strikes are acts of terrorism in sovereign nations where we have no legal right to be in. That these are nothing more than extra-judicial killings. They cannot believe we could possibly be a part of any terrorist activity ourselves. That we're always the good guys, never the bad guys.

And that reminds me of the reaction average Germans had when they were first told of the Holocaust. They refused to believe their government could be a part of something so heiness. So inhuman. And they kept refusing to believe it, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead. So I ask myself, "When are we going to have our Eisenhower moment?"

 

[Billo_Really]

I would not be so sure about that.
With the number of Bankers and Corporate CEO's rotating between DC and their respective industry, not to mention the lobbyists, they know exactly what they are doing and it will be the 99.5% of the rest of the country paying for it.


Health Insurance and Big Pharma are at the top of the list when it comes to Government Bribes.

Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

Top Lobbying Industries

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $2,674,746,491
Insurance $1,882,737,777
Electric Utilities $1,766,328,678
Business Associations $1,541,467,615
Computers/Internet $1,466,512,472
Oil & Gas $1,441,445,945
Education $1,228,469,956
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $1,227,879,461
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $1,139,014,225
TV/Movies/Music $1,112,940,948
Civil Servants/Public Officials $1,070,589,802
Securities & Investment $1,062,527,936
Real Estate $1,041,957,781
Health Professionals $1,005,366,589
Air Transport $955,458,287
Misc Issues $821,661,956
Automotive $777,914,039
Telephone Utilities $749,693,309
Telecom Services & Equipment $743,821,349
Health Services/HMOs $698,561,723

That is why it doesn't matter which side is in office, it's always business as usual.

 

[Montecresto]

The definition of terrorism varies between various countries expressly for the purpose of political and military objectives.

Did the definition of terrorism exist before our benevolent government created theirs?

I can assure you that if we were to get into a war with China, many in our country would prefer a typical land invasion rather than drones flying over our heads lobbing bombs hither and thither.

Regardless of what countries definition we use, the oldest definition that predates any countries politically motivated and emotionally charged definition would surely apply when bombs are raining down over my and other citizens heads.

And we would be calling it terrorists attacks (for political and emotional effect) then, the same as the attacks we carry out on other countries in the world.

There is neither an academic nor an international legal consensus regarding the definition of the term "terrorism".[1][2] Various legal systems and government agencies use different definitions of "terrorism". Moreover, the international community has been slow to formulate a universally agreed upon, legally binding definition of this crime. These difficulties arise from the fact that the term "terrorism" is politically and emotionally charged.[3]

Exactly! One of our American values is "empathy". Everyone has a right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. Being a patriot to this country, means you embrace that ideology. You demonstrate that ideology. You live that ideology. We're also a country based on the rule of law. And the keystone principle for that is we believe no one should be punished for a crime they did not commit. Those drones are punishing a whole lot of people that didn't do anything wrong.

But for whatever reason, there are many American's who cannot fathom the notion we are exporting our own brand of terrorism. That we commit terrorist acts. That these drone strikes are acts of terrorism in sovereign nations where we have no legal right to be in. That these are nothing more than extra-judicial killings. They cannot believe we could possibly be a part of any terrorist activity ourselves. That we're always the good guys, never the bad guys.

And that reminds me of the reaction average Germans had when they were first told of the Holocaust. They refused to believe their government could be a part of something so heiness. So inhuman. And they kept refusing to believe it, until Eisenhower made them bury the dead. So I ask myself, "When are we going to have our Eisenhower moment?"

So true. There are plenty of us that do know that, perhaps just not enough, yet.

 

[OnePercenter]

I would not be so sure about that.
With the number of Bankers and Corporate CEO's rotating between DC and their respective industry, not to mention the lobbyists, they know exactly what they are doing and it will be the 99.5% of the rest of the country paying for it.


Health Insurance and Big Pharma are at the top of the list when it comes to Government Bribes.

Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

Top Lobbying Industries

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $2,674,746,491
Insurance $1,882,737,777
Electric Utilities $1,766,328,678
Business Associations $1,541,467,615
Computers/Internet $1,466,512,472
Oil & Gas $1,441,445,945
Education $1,228,469,956
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $1,227,879,461
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $1,139,014,225
TV/Movies/Music $1,112,940,948
Civil Servants/Public Officials $1,070,589,802
Securities & Investment $1,062,527,936
Real Estate $1,041,957,781
Health Professionals $1,005,366,589
Air Transport $955,458,287
Misc Issues $821,661,956
Automotive $777,914,039
Telephone Utilities $749,693,309
Telecom Services & Equipment $743,821,349
Health Services/HMOs $698,561,723

That is why it doesn't matter which side is in office, it's always business as usual.

Except for the fact that healthcare premiums didn't rise during Clinton, you'd be correct.

 

[Billo_Really]

Except for the fact that healthcare premiums didn't rise during Clinton, you'd be correct.

They will now, because the healthcare insurance lobby wrote the ACA bill.

 

[Billo_Really]

So true. There are plenty of us that do know that, perhaps just not enough, yet.

And part of being a patriot is that no matter how much I'm against all that shit, I'm as much to blame as all the ones that support it. And anything short of renouncing my citizenship, I have to share that burden of repsonsibility.

Being a patriot, means you are responsible for everything the government does in your name. Whether you support it, or not.

 

[Toro]

I would not be so sure about that.
With the number of Bankers and Corporate CEO's rotating between DC and their respective industry, not to mention the lobbyists, they know exactly what they are doing and it will be the 99.5% of the rest of the country paying for it.


Health Insurance and Big Pharma are at the top of the list when it comes to Government Bribes.

Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

Top Lobbying Industries

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products$2,674,746,491
Insurance$1,882,737,777
Electric Utilities$1,766,328,678
Business Associations$1,541,467,615
Computers/Internet$1,466,512,472
Oil & Gas$1,441,445,945
Education$1,228,469,956
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing$1,227,879,461
Hospitals/Nursing Homes$1,139,014,225
TV/Movies/Music$1,112,940,948
Civil Servants/Public Officials$1,070,589,802
Securities & Investment$1,062,527,936
Real Estate$1,041,957,781
Health Professionals$1,005,366,589
Air Transport$955,458,287
Misc Issues$821,661,956
Automotive$777,914,039
Telephone Utilities$749,693,309
Telecom Services & Equipment$743,821,349
Health Services/HMOs$698,561,723

That is why it doesn't matter which side is in office, it's always business as usual.

Except for the fact that healthcare premiums didn't rise during Clinton, you'd be correct.

What are you talking about?